It's Against the Law

K

Kinsman

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Minuteman
Feb 21, 2006
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Dallas, Georgia
#1
From the AP:


A person steals guns, (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), shoots and kills his own mother (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), transports these guns loaded (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), brings guns onto school property (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), breaks into the school (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), discharges the weapons within city limits (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), murders 26 people (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), and commits suicide (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW).

And there are people in this country that somehow think passing ANOTHER LAW banning guns would protect us from someone like this. If you haven't noticed, people like this are not concerned about breaking laws - they only care about fulfilling their own twisted agenda.

The only people that a gun ban law would impact are the LAW ABIDING
CITIZENS, which will only serve to cripple the ability to protect
ourselves.
 
#4
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and commits suicide (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW).</div></div>

What's the penalty if you're caught?
 
#5
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and commits suicide (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW).</div></div>

What's the penalty if you're caught? </div></div>

And why is it against the law?
 
#8
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BALLISTIC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and commits suicide (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW).</div></div>

What's the penalty if you're caught? </div></div>

And why is it against the law?</div></div>

Probably because they (gov) get pissed for not being able to punish him or having no "control" over him?
 
#10
Re: It's Against the Law

funny thing- in my old home state of Mass., there's a blue law on the books that states that suicide is punishable by hanging. it is currently the only thing in Mass that is a capital offense.
 
#11
Re: It's Against the Law

Punishment for suicide should also be on the books, but for the post-mortem suspect, it could include denial of proper burial with any honors or the stigma of having such an act engraved on the tombstone.

Survivors can be punished, but the dead's memory can be punished as well.

If everyone knew that if you killed yourself that you'd not be remembered well, or have fanfare, but will be a pariah in the social memory, it might make people think twice.

Such a thing has more impact when people are not living in a Godless society which operates on the idea that all people go to heaven. Or at least there are no consequences. There are consequences, and no, not all people go to heaven, even the "good" people who don't kick puppies and only cheat on their wife with the mind.
 
#12
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kinsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> From the AP:


A person steals guns, (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), shoots and kills his own mother (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), transports these guns loaded (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), brings guns onto school property (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), breaks into the school (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), discharges the weapons within city limits (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), murders 26 people (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW), and commits suicide (WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW).

And there are people in this country that somehow think passing ANOTHER LAW banning guns would protect us from someone like this. If you haven't noticed, people like this are not concerned about breaking laws - they only care about fulfilling their own twisted agenda.

The only people that a gun ban law would impact are the LAW ABIDING
CITIZENS, which will only serve to cripple the ability to protect
ourselves.
</div></div> It was never about what happened in Sandy Hook. Sandy Hook was the crisis that the administration was looking for in order enact "sensible legislation." And, that is how it always starts. Then the next step is to divide the gun owners into the ones that hunt, shoot for plinking, and those other people, the evil black rifle owners. The President comes out and says, we are not taking guns for hunting, I believe in the second amendment and see, here is a picture of me shooting. I am one of you guys. But, we can't have those evil, mean, black rifles on the streets. They are only to kill and we don't want that. He gets lots of hunters, the guys that go to the range once a year to confirm zero, and he starts to divide.

The problem in America is we have lost the ability to think beyond what is presented before us. A large percentage of the population have the feeling that the government wouldn't do anything to harm us? And, then there is us, the people who know the government, from historical perspectives, would and could grab a larger amount of power then what is garned by the constitution and the government must remain in check as is what the framers of the Constitution had in mind when it was written.

Just like mental illness checks for buying guns. It sounds good right? Yea, we don't need people buying guns that are unstable and we let it pass. And, then the next thing you know you go to the doctors office because you are depressed and the Doctor prescribes an anti-depressive pill to take to get you back on your feet. Then there is a knock on your door from the local police asking you to surrender your arms because you are now categorized as unstable. Once the new checks are enacted look for a broadening of symptoms that can get you put on the list - kind of like the no-fly list except for gun owners.

The bottom line - you can't enact large sweeping changes in America if people have Arms.
 
#13
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Punishment for suicide should also be on the books, but for the post-mortem suspect, it could include denial of proper burial with any honors or the stigma of having such an act engraved on the tombstone.

Survivors can be punished, but the dead's memory can be punished as well.

If everyone knew that if you killed yourself that you'd not be remembered well, or have fanfare, but will be a pariah in the social memory, it might make people think twice.

Such a thing has more impact when people are not living in a Godless society which operates on the idea that all people go to heaven. Or at least there are no consequences. There are consequences, and no, not all people go to heaven, even the "good" people who don't kick puppies and only cheat on their wife with the mind.</div></div>

Please go to the lonely nursing homes or hospitals or someone who was allowed to leave the hospital and wait to die at home in their own bed this...
Someone who is in the last stages of some horrible disease they have been suffering for years.
Some elderly person who lost their spouse, and have no family anymore and is living alone with not even someone to have a conversation with. And speaks to the pictures on his/her wall because that's all that's left.

I find that your statements are very selfish. And you probably have not a clue what these people are going through. There are some things that are just to horrible to bare. And to wish the things you typed is wrong. You are assuming everything in your beliefs is right and there is NO other possibilities.
 
#14
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: madppcs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Punishment for suicide should also be on the books, but for the post-mortem suspect, it could include denial of proper burial with any honors or the stigma of having such an act engraved on the tombstone.

Survivors can be punished, but the dead's memory can be punished as well.

If everyone knew that if you killed yourself that you'd not be remembered well, or have fanfare, but will be a pariah in the social memory, it might make people think twice.

Such a thing has more impact when people are not living in a Godless society which operates on the idea that all people go to heaven. Or at least there are no consequences. There are consequences, and no, not all people go to heaven, even the "good" people who don't kick puppies and only cheat on their wife with the mind.</div></div>

Please go to the lonely nursing homes or hospitals or someone who was allowed to leave the hospital and wait to die at home in their own bed this...
Someone who is in the last stages of some horrible disease they have been suffering for years.
Some elderly person who lost their spouse, and have no family anymore and is living alone with not even someone to have a conversation with. And speaks to the pictures on his/her wall because that's all that's left.

I find that your statements are very selfish. And you probably have not a clue what these people are going through. There are some things that are just to horrible to bare. And to wish the things you typed is wrong. You are assuming everything in your beliefs is right and there is NO other possibilities. </div></div>

My expeience of the above individuals comments are the same as yours. He seems to believe, much as the jihadists, that he has all the answers, and that his way is the only way. Anyone who disagrees is evil.

Like yourself madppcs, I find that poition troubleing, and most likely the result of some traumatic childhood abuse.
 
#15
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If everyone knew that if you killed yourself that you'd not be remembered well, or have fanfare, but will be a pariah in the social memory, it might make people think twice. </div></div>

If I don't care what this scum sucking society thinks now, why would I care after I'm dead?
 
#16
Re: It's Against the Law

This has nothing to do with saving lives.

If they wanted to save lives they would give back their kick backs to the pharmacuetical companies and ban anti-depressants.

I believe the statistics I saw were OVERWHELMING on how many of these mass shooters were on anti-depressants.
 
#17
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has nothing to do with saving lives.

If they wanted to save lives they would give back their kick backs to the pharmacuetical companies and ban anti-depressants.

I believe the statistics I saw were <span style="color: #990000">OVERWHELMING </span> on how many of these mass shooters were on anti-depressants.

</div></div>
 
#18
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: madppcs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Punishment for suicide should also be on the books, but for the post-mortem suspect, it could include denial of proper burial with any honors or the stigma of having such an act engraved on the tombstone.

Survivors can be punished, but the dead's memory can be punished as well.

If everyone knew that if you killed yourself that you'd not be remembered well, or have fanfare, but will be a pariah in the social memory, it might make people think twice.

Such a thing has more impact when people are not living in a Godless society which operates on the idea that all people go to heaven. Or at least there are no consequences. There are consequences, and no, not all people go to heaven, even the "good" people who don't kick puppies and only cheat on their wife with the mind.</div></div>

Please go to the lonely nursing homes or hospitals or someone who was allowed to leave the hospital and wait to die at home in their own bed this...
Someone who is in the last stages of some horrible disease they have been suffering for years.
Some elderly person who lost their spouse, and have no family anymore and is living alone with not even someone to have a conversation with. And speaks to the pictures on his/her wall because that's all that's left.

I find that your statements are very selfish. And you probably have not a clue what these people are going through. There are some things that are just to horrible to bare. And to wish the things you typed is wrong. You are assuming everything in your beliefs is right and there is NO other possibilities.</div></div>

I need another net with all these red herrings.

I've had elderly in my family, and watched them go downhill. The random crying, the anger, the thinking it's 1937 and that their family abandoned them when in fact their cousins and brothers are all dead because they had the good genetics and lived to 99.

I've seen cancer victims and other diseases in the families of friends.

At no time did they want to cop-out with a needle.

As concerns basic 2k year old theology, and a few thousand years before that, it is right.

Maggot- Traumatic child abuse? You have no argument against what I say so you attack a childhood by making things up? LOL.
 
#19
Re: It's Against the Law

^^^^^

This was not and is not intnded as an attack, but rather in the hope that you will get some help. Ive watchd to many of your posts turn into sealot based rants. I think your potentially dangerous to yourself and others.

Tell us how you feel about the Islamic people and their beliefs..
 
#20
Re: It's Against the Law

Arguing from a position of sound philosophy and daring to proclaim truth is not zealotry.

One can click my blog link in my sig, click the link there at the top titled "islam" and see for themselves in a manner which is impossible to go into on this forum.

As for going back to the OP, don't kill yourself, it's against the law.
 
#21
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arguing from a position of <span style="color: #CC0000">sound philosophy </span> and daring to proclaim truth is not zealotry.

One can click my blog link in my sig, click the link there at the top titled "islam" and see for themselves in a manner which is impossible to go into on this forum.

As for going back to the OP, don't kill yourself, it's against the law.

</div></div>

Your obviously a highly intelligent indiidual but I have not seen that sound philosophy in your posts. What Ive seen is an unreasoned rage and hatred toward all those of the Islamic faith, and towards anyone who has the audacity to disagree with you. That is neither sound philosophy, nor truth.

So back to the OP. One has the right to destroy his car, or his home, or anything that belongs to his or her, as long as they dont harm others. Why should they be restricted from destroying their on life. That comes out of a centuries old belief system which doesnt stand up to reason nor logic. Ever heard this one..."...and endowed with certain unalienable rights, and amongst these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Simply put, "Its my right to do with my property, including my life, what ever I choose."
 
#22
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Punishment for suicide should also be on the books, but for the post-mortem suspect, it could include denial of proper burial with any honors or the stigma of having such an act engraved on the tombstone.

Survivors can be punished, but the dead's memory can be punished as well.

If everyone knew that if you killed yourself that you'd not be remembered well, or have fanfare, but will be a pariah in the social memory, it might make people think twice.
</div></div>

Then again it's a lot about the why. The biblical account of the great man of God: Samson, has a bit of a different take on things.

But while I can appreciate wanting to stay true to the ancient teachings and follow the listed punishments for people who killed themselves, it seems that it is more of forgetting about the beam that is in your own eye, as all things being equal, there is similar punishments described for stupratores puerorum but I have yet to see any of their bodies publically being denied proper burial.

Indeed people who under the colour of the same ancient teachings committed horendus acts of brutality and barbarism that have forever tarnished the name of the creed they espoused to follow were given full honoured burials & are still not condemned even today.

So while I don't disagree with your stating the facts of what the uncompromising tenants of the faith are, or wanting to abide by them, it seems these days there is an awful lot of cherry picking going on about who's unpardonable sins are actually counted against them.
 
#23
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One has the right to destroy his car, or his home, or anything that belongs to his or her, as long as they dont harm others. Why should they be restricted from destroying their on life. That comes out of a centuries old belief system which doesnt stand up to reason nor logic. Ever heard this one..."...and endowed with certain unalienable rights, and amongst these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Simply put, "Its my right to do with my property, including my life, what ever I choose." </div></div>

The simplest way to explain it, is that it comes from a distinct set of beliefs that not everybody follows, in which life is a sacred gift from the hand of the creator, to each individual, to be accounted for by each individual when called into judgement, and throwing that gift back in the face of the giver is inexcuseable. This is distinct from things that are either souless or are mere human possesions.
This is also a big reason for the ongoing national debate on a similar subject which has been going on for many decades.
 
#24
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Punishment for suicide should also be on the books, but for the post-mortem suspect, it could include denial of proper burial with any honors or the stigma of having such an act engraved on the tombstone.

Survivors can be punished, but the dead's memory can be punished as well.

If everyone knew that if you killed yourself that you'd not be remembered well, or have fanfare, but will be a pariah in the social memory, it might make people think twice.
</div></div>

Then again it's a lot about the why. The biblical account of the great man of God: Samson, has a bit of a different take on things.

But while I can appreciate wanting to stay true to the ancient teachings and follow the listed punishments for people who killed themselves, it seems that it is more of forgetting about the beam that is in your own eye, as all things being equal, there is similar punishments described for stupratores puerorum but I have yet to see any of their bodies publically being denied proper burial.

Indeed people who under the colour of the same ancient teachings committed horendus acts of brutality and barbarism that have forever tarnished the name of the creed they espoused to follow were given full honoured burials & are still not condemned even today.

So while I don't disagree with your stating the facts of what the uncompromising tenants of the faith are, or wanting to abide by them, it seems these days there is an awful lot of cherry picking going on about who's unpardonable sins are actually counted against them.</div></div>

Samson didn't commit suicide, rather his death was a foreseen double-effect of taking out the Philistines. Such as a person might dive on a grenade. Their goal isn't their death so much as it is foreseen as a consequence of a greater good: protecting others.

Suicide directly aims to kill the self, in defiance of power over their own life. Usurping said power is the issue, as explained in your second post.
 
#25
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arguing from a position of <span style="color: #CC0000">sound philosophy </span> and daring to proclaim truth is not zealotry.

One can click my blog link in my sig, click the link there at the top titled "islam" and see for themselves in a manner which is impossible to go into on this forum.

As for going back to the OP, don't kill yourself, it's against the law.

</div></div>

Your obviously a highly intelligent indiidual but I have not seen that sound philosophy in your posts. What Ive seen is an unreasoned rage and hatred toward all those of the Islamic faith, and towards anyone who has the audacity to disagree with you. That is neither sound philosophy, nor truth.

So back to the OP. One has the right to destroy his car, or his home, or anything that belongs to his or her, as long as they dont harm others. Why should they be restricted from destroying their on life. That comes out of a centuries old belief system which doesnt stand up to reason nor logic. Ever heard this one..."...and endowed with certain unalienable rights, and amongst these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Simply put, "Its my right to do with my property, including my life, what ever I choose."</div></div>

I will not tolerate, nor acquiesce, to what is a falsification of truth, Maggot. If that's an issue for you, tough.

I do not hate muslims in general, but islam. I recognize there are many muslims who submit themselves wholeheartedly to a system which is against natural law, and there they err.

Anyway, no you do not have the right to kill yourself as you caveat that you cannot do something that harms another. Suicide harms the self, and others. It's the height of selfishness. It is self-murder. Surely you can engage in it, but you do not have the right to do so anymore than one has marital rights via raping, or the right to a firearm by stealing another man's gun.

The Constitution says you have a right to life, not a right to end your life. Happiness, from the perspective of Aristotle, which is likely more in line with what the Founder's meant than some modern fairie dust and unicorns drug trip that people think happiness is, is the fulfillment of man: not being held back, but being allowed to succeed, including in trials. Happiness is not an emotion but a state of being as best as one can. Murder is not the fulfilling of anything but a grave error borne in the mind from the seed of bad philosophy, which you amply demonstrate par excellence.

I have not the time to write a treatise for every issue about which I post. I devote that level of attention to my blog.
 
#27
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arguing from a position of <span style="color: #CC0000">sound philosophy </span> and daring to proclaim truth is not zealotry.

One can click my blog link in my sig, click the link there at the top titled "islam" and see for themselves in a manner which is impossible to go into on this forum.

As for going back to the OP, don't kill yourself, it's against the law.

</div></div>

Your obviously a highly intelligent indiidual but I have not seen that sound philosophy in your posts. What Ive seen is an unreasoned rage and hatred toward all those of the Islamic faith, and towards anyone who has the audacity to disagree with you. That is neither sound philosophy, nor truth.

So back to the OP. One has the right to destroy his car, or his home, or anything that belongs to his or her, as long as they dont harm others. Why should they be restricted from destroying their on life. That comes out of a centuries old belief system which doesnt stand up to reason nor logic. Ever heard this one..."...and endowed with certain unalienable rights, and amongst these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Simply put, "Its my right to do with my property, including my life, what ever I choose."</div></div>

I will not tolerate, nor acquiesce, to what is a falsification of truth, Maggot. If that's an issue for you, tough.

<span style="color: #CC0000">I do not hate muslims in general, but islam. I recognize there are many muslims who submit themselves wholeheartedly to a system which is against natural law, and there they err. </span>

Anyway, no you do not have the right to kill yourself as you caveat that you cannot do something that harms another. Suicide harms the self, and others. It's the height of selfishness. It is self-murder. Surely you can engage in it, but you do not have the right to do so anymore than one has marital rights via raping, or the right to a firearm by stealing another man's gun.


<span style="color: #006600">The Constitution says you have a right to life, not a right to end your life. Happiness, from the perspective of Aristotle, which is likely more in line with what the Founder's meant than some modern fairie dust and unicorns drug trip that people think happiness is, is the fulfillment of man: not being held back, but being allowed to succeed, including in trials. Happiness is not an emotion but a state of being as best as one can. </span> Murder is not the fulfilling of anything but a grave error borne in the mind from the seed of bad philosophy, which you amply demonstrate par excellence.

I have not the time to write a treatise for every issue about which I post. I devote that level of attention to my blog. </div></div>

Now thats better. Less rage. Still a olot of arrogance
smile.gif
but less rage.

<span style="color: #CC0000">I understand what your saying, and can almost agree. Trouble is I find that "historically speaking"most all religons have gone through the same developmental stages. Consider the christian crusades, the inquisitions, or what the jews did when they crossed the Jordan. I expect Veer could relate some of the history of the Indian sub continient But the same can be said about governments. Look at what ours has become. Thats why I abstain from participateiing in instituionalized organizations. If you join with others then you have to, sooneror later, acquiese to the group mentality and morality. That I cannot do. I cannot betray my moral imperative of the intent to live that which I perceive as 'the good'. Where we seem to part is that Ive come to discern that wisdom dictates I not waste my energies in hate. I recognize that there are ways in which I cannot walk...Islam, Nazi, Adultry, Cheating, and many others. But I dont have time to waste hateing them. I just recognize them and tell them to "get behind me", so to speak. I prefer to use my energies for creative purposes.</span>

<span style="color: #009900"> You forgot the most important of the three. life *Liberty* and the pursuit of happiness. When it comes right down to it thats the only one that really counts for without liberty, life is not worth living and without liberty there can be no true happiness. That is mans greatest aspect, absolute free will and absolute free choice. And the great lie that has mankind by the cahones is that they dont. So they bow and worsip the lie in one of its forms. Would I encourage suicide. No of course not. Id do everything in my power to assist a person in getting through that. But in the end I have to respect their free choice, their free will. Neither I nor any government or religon has the right to force a person to live in unmanagable pain. Or perhaps its just a curiosity to see whats on the other side. It is the right of the individual that our whole system is founded on which is in question here. Do you have more RIGHT to own a firearm than a free individual has a right to self determination? </span>
 
#28
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, no you do not have the right to kill yourself as you caveat that you cannot do something that harms another.</div></div>

Yet, in the US a woman can decide to terminate a beating heart and a doctor can do so...legally.
 
#29
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, no you do not have the right to kill yourself as you caveat that you cannot do something that harms another.</div></div>

Yet, in the US a woman can decide to terminate a beating heart and a doctor can do so...legally. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyway, no you do not have the right to kill yourself as you caveat that you cannot do something that harms another.</div></div>

POWW!!!!
Click to expand...
 
#30
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, no you do not have the right to kill yourself as you caveat that you cannot do something that harms another.</div></div>

Yet, in the US a woman can decide to terminate a beating heart and a doctor can do so...legally. </div></div>

Which is actually illegal per natural law. It's an unjust law and thus is no law at all.

Murder, properly, is what it is.

I actually address this concept of law, and specifically abortion as murder, in the following posts:

abortion:

http://jonbhorton.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/before-we-can-say-never-again/

Law:
http://jonbhorton.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/the-pope-a-new-world-order-and-what-he-meant/

The result of going against natural and divine law:
http://jonbhorton.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/pornography-and-its-gay-effect-on-straight-males/

How natural rights are not dependent on their inclusion or exclusion in the US Constitution:
http://jonbhorton.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/newtown-ct-impetus-to-tyranny-part-1/

etc.

The US Constitution, if one wants to make it their god, is a poor god indeed. It's been in the grave far longer than 3 days.
 
#31
Re: It's Against the Law

^^^^^Interesting and well written. Thanks for shareing. I hear Benidict announced his retirement,today. While Benidict was no John Paul I think he was a good man. RIP

-Abortion. I agree 100% and love pissing off those who dont with the following. Once the sperm penetrates the egg its human in form, just as an acorn is oak in form. Left unmolested wil in its good time become a mighty oak. While I agree that a woman should have the right to her body, the same MUST apply to the human being living inside her.

-Law. Agree

-Natural Law. This becomes somewhat thorny. Whereas I find your reasoning essentially sound I would add that I find all human law falls short of what you refer to as divine law; what I prefer to refer to as Truth. While I find the issues you addressed a abominable I must say that essentially it is none of the governments business, nor mine, what two (or more) consenting adults do. It is only mine to say I find this wrong and will have no part in it. Depart from me. Beyont that I contain myself to getting the log out of my own eye rqaher than harrasing an other for the splinter in theirs.

-I think you get off track here. To avoid violateing forum rules Ive replied in a pm.

I put no faith in the constitution nor any other work of man. They come and go. I do find the PRINCIPLES of liberty outlined therein of a higher nature. I take them even further in that I acknowledge we as people have an inate nature within us which is of absolute freedom of will and choice.
 
#33
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KUSA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread started out making a point and turned into a discussion that might as well be about <span style="color: #FF0000">Something more interesing. </span> . </div></div>

Its just evolution.
laugh.gif
 
#34
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KUSA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread started out making a point and turned into a discussion that might as well be about <span style="color: #FF0000">Something more interesing. </span> . </div></div>

Its just evolution.
laugh.gif
</div></div>
I would have guessed you two didn't believe in that.
 
#36
Re: It's Against the Law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KUSA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KUSA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread started out making a point and turned into a discussion that might as well be about <span style="color: #FF0000">Something more interesing. </span> . </div></div>

Its just evolution.
laugh.gif
</div></div>
I would have guessed you two didn't believe in that. </div></div>

I was useing it in a jokeing sense, but to me evolution is obvious. It may have certain limits, or some believe it does. Framkly its of no importance to me. I am here, how I got here is essentially unimportant, I am what I am. All that matters is how I act towards myself and others.
 
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