It's not about the Gear, it's about the Effort !

[JohnnyAuto]

Good points.

Always willing to help someone out when humble but if they are already speaking as an expert based on their high speed gear I tend to turn away. I see a lot of the latter at my club. My time is limited there and I readily admit Im kind of anti social wanting to use the limited time to work on something I planned on working on. When I take a day of vacation and get to do it with the luxury of time different story.

Similar to you. 100 yard line. Guy had some species of .50. He had 4-5 five gallon jugs of water on the berm. He was about 2 of 5 hitting them.

When it comes to those cannons I hope there was a progression in caliber. Im not so sure though. Lots of people have the money and just decide such beasts can be handled without working up to them.

I've run into the know-it-all type, too. They can be hard to suffer. I've learned to just go along with whatever they say, and pay complements to their gear and their ways of doing things, then make my getaway as soon as possible.

One of my favorites was the guy whose AR had a cheap scope on it where the crosshairs were so thick I couldn't see the "X" on his target at 100 yards. Poor guy, he was so excited about his shiny, new Barska scope that I didn't have the heart to say anything to burst his bubble. I just said, "that's really nice! Happy shooting!" and I shook his hand and I left.

 

[pmclaine]

I've run into the know-it-all type, too. They can be hard to suffer. I've learned to just go along with whatever they say, and pay complements to their gear and their ways of doing things, then make my getaway as soon as possible.

One of my favorites was the guy whose AR had a cheap scope on it where the crosshairs were so thick I couldn't see the "X" on his target at 100 yards. Poor guy, he was so excited about his shiny, new Barska scope that I didn't have the heart to say anything to burst his bubble. I just said, "that's really nice! Happy shooting!" and I shook his hand and I left.

I was between shots letting my rifle cool on the bags and such a guy came over. He wrapped his hand around my barrel proclaiming "Wow, that's a Bull Barrel!".

The act alone wasn't going to harm anything but I felt like I had been violated.

Had he been the next urinal over and reached over to grab my crank I would probably have been less upset.

 

[Walter Haas]

Queer fits. "What is the best cock out there?" Asking for a friend.

I'm laughing at your Stalin quote. That's a good one!

 

[Mike Casselton]

I know a lot of people don't like golf, but there are a lot of golfers that are gear whores also.

Go to any golf course, especially country club courses.

Look at the bags holding the clubs. What you'll see is a ton of $3-4k sets of clubs with $500 drivers sticking out of the bag.

Take a walk along the edges of the fairways and you'll find hundreds of $7.00 golf balls littering the woods parallel to the course.

These guys buy top end gear, but they refuse to spend the time practicing to get better.
They are trying to buy a good game instead of paying the actual price of time and practice.

Yeah, some equipment is way more forgiving. If one takes the time with any endeavor to practice correctly, they will get better, and the top of the line gear will make it easier.

Frank,
thanks for reminding me and others here that (proper) practicing is still the most important part of shooting.

 

[Steel head]

I know a lot of people don't like golf, but there are a lot of golfers that are gear whores also.

Go to any golf course, especially country club courses.

Look at the bags holding the clubs. What you'll see is a ton of $3-4k sets of clubs with $500 drivers sticking out of the bag.

Take a walk along the edges of the fairways and you'll find hundreds of $7.00 golf balls littering the woods parallel to the course.

These guys buy top end gear, but they refuse to spend the time practicing to get better.
They are trying to buy a good game instead of paying the actual price of time and practice.

Yeah, some equipment is way more forgiving. If one takes the time with any endeavor to practice correctly, they will get better, and the top of the line gear will make it easier.

Frank,
thanks for reminding me and others here that (proper) practicing is still the most important part of shooting.

lol
Golf gear whores are definitely a thing!

 

[Mike Casselton]

lol
Golf gear whores are definitely a thing!

I've always called it equipment before commitment.

 

[Steel head]

I've always called it equipment before commitment.

Look the part before earning the part.

 

[riddle326]

I didn't take from the article the emphasis being on buying "cheap" accessories to "complement" high end gear and than suffering the expected inability to achieve goals.

I kind of saw it as gaining superficial "expertise" by buying expensive gear but lacking the most important thing - actual knowledge - thinking the gear in itself constitutes knowledge..

Guys go out and buy an AI with TT than show up on the line seeking status but have no motivation to actually learn.

The gear becomes the goal rather than the hits.

We should guard against becoming "snobs" and "looking down" on "lesser" gear that may not be great but it is the best that shooter can afford or likewise attributing knowledge to the guy that has top shelf gear just because of his gear.

Classes are my best money spent.

I learn shit like positioning rifle as close to spine as physically possible, get critiques of fundamentals I have been lazy and let slide, get forced to do things outside my comfort/usual shooting zones.

I make poor gear choices.

I tend toward nostalgia, historical firearms worship, and personal preference of aesthetics - pretty rifles make me feel pretty.

My desires tend toward me having some pretty "dated" plain jane looking gear.

Most of my shooting is twenty round sessions on my ride home from work off the bench.

There is an experience I enjoy.......I begin my set up on the line with the guy at the next bench with the latest and greatest, has his Labradar set up, and is bragging of the prowess of his gear to all that will listen, and believe me many do - they are drawn to him as his gear identifies him as the Oracle of Delphi.

I don't talk to anyone by choice at the range. They begin the conversation and I reply politely.

Typically conversation from them is initiated by asking "What are you shooting?" as an ice breaker to talk about their gear with the inevitable end question "You want to shoot it?" to which I always say no and than have to deal with "No its okay, really you can shoot my rifle!"

They are disbelieving a guy with a plain jane R700 doesn't want to shoot their rifle and there have been times where tone of voice needs to be used to let them know I have no fucking desire to shoot their fucking rifle.

Anyway, nothing warms the cockles of my heart more than when this type guy is there and I am having a good day, and you know he is looking at everyones targets because that is what we do, and you can tell he is impressed with my nothing special groups because he cant do it with his high end gear and starts asking questions like "Do you hand load?" as if that's cheating and the reason he isn't getting good groups is because his "best money can buy" commercial ammo cant shoot as good as hand loads, not realizing its not the handloads or the gear - its him.

The cherry on top is when this guy asks "What do you write in your book you have there?"

I enjoy the young kid with the Ruger American struggling and asking good questions much more than equipment guy.

I didn't take from the article the emphasis being on buying "cheap" accessories to "complement" high end gear and than suffering the expected inability to achieve goals.

I kind of saw it as gaining superficial "expertise" by buying expensive gear but lacking the most important thing - actual knowledge - thinking the gear in itself constitutes knowledge..

Guys go out and buy an AI with TT than show up on the line seeking status but have no motivation to actually learn.

The gear becomes the goal rather than the hits.

We should guard against becoming "snobs" and "looking down" on "lesser" gear that may not be great but it is the best that shooter can afford or likewise attributing knowledge to the guy that has top shelf gear just because of his gear.

Classes are my best money spent.

I learn shit like positioning rifle as close to spine as physically possible, get critiques of fundamentals I have been lazy and let slide, get forced to do things outside my comfort/usual shooting zones.

I make poor gear choices.

I tend toward nostalgia, historical firearms worship, and personal preference of aesthetics - pretty rifles make me feel pretty.

My desires tend toward me having some pretty "dated" plain jane looking gear.

Most of my shooting is twenty round sessions on my ride home from work off the bench.

There is an experience I enjoy.......I begin my set up on the line with the guy at the next bench with the latest and greatest, has his Labradar set up, and is bragging of the prowess of his gear to all that will listen, and believe me many do - they are drawn to him as his gear identifies him as the Oracle of Delphi.

I don't talk to anyone by choice at the range. They begin the conversation and I reply politely.

Typically conversation from them is initiated by asking "What are you shooting?" as an ice breaker to talk about their gear with the inevitable end question "You want to shoot it?" to which I always say no and than have to deal with "No its okay, really you can shoot my rifle!"

They are disbelieving a guy with a plain jane R700 doesn't want to shoot their rifle and there have been times where tone of voice needs to be used to let them know I have no fucking desire to shoot their fucking rifle.

Anyway, nothing warms the cockles of my heart more than when this type guy is there and I am having a good day, and you know he is looking at everyones targets because that is what we do, and you can tell he is impressed with my nothing special groups because he cant do it with his high end gear and starts asking questions like "Do you hand load?" as if that's cheating and the reason he isn't getting good groups is because his "best money can buy" commercial ammo cant shoot as good as hand loads, not realizing its not the handloads or the gear - its him.

The cherry on top is when this guy asks "What do you write in your book you have there?"

I enjoy the young kid with the Ruger American struggling and asking good questions much more than equipment guy.

 

[pmclaine]

I am fairly new at this, just starting last summer, but its people like this, with some type of smug righteous indignation, that make we want to stay shooting on my friends private property instead of going to the range meeting people making friends and being able to ask questions and learn. I do not have 9K in gear but I do have about 5K in my rig setup, mainly because a pet peeve of mine is buying something cheaper, only to find out I should have just put that money and a little more to get a better piece of equipment. That kills me. I too have asked people if they wanted to shoot my rifle, not because I am feeling charitable, but its just being neighborly and allows me to see, provided you have the prowess, to know what groups my rifle is capable of shooting as I already know what i can do so far. It also breaks the ice so I feel more able to ask questions (Maybe make a friend or mentor) and possibly learn things I might be unaware of yet. The way you are talking, I would have thought the Real cherry on top would be to go ahead and shoot his rifle. Letting him watch you get a better group than him, but then thats what I would be hoping would happen. Proving my rifle shoots better than me and I can do better. I would be thanking you for motivating me to practice more and eventually match or beat that group. Hell, who knows, we could have been best friends(

Nah, we wont be friends. Your reading comprehension would prevent us having any sort of equal relationship.

I have no issue with you, the eager motivated learner.

My issue is with the guy that in the moment decides this will be his hobby, immediately orders up all the current popular "latest and greatest gear" and immediately this bestows upon him expertise.

Believe me that exists. They are offering to let you shoot their rifle as a means to have you "envy" them. They want to hear you praise their gear. I wont give it to them.

Someone says "Shit I seem to be all over the place. Can you shoot this so I can try to see if its me or the gear" that's legit.

By the way $5k is a serious expenditure on equipment. Id expect you are beyond the "just getting into marksmanship" level. You have been through the progression of firearms somewhat.

If not, perhaps spending some of that money on "critical reading skills" would have been money well spent.

Edit/add - Paragraphs and line spacing are your friends.

 

[Mike Casselton]

If everyone bought only what they really need then the cost of firearms would be much higher, the innovation would be less frequent, and there would be fewer gun stores. Better to have a gun and not be expert in it then to have no gun at all. If you’re faced with an apocalyptic scenario you will appreciate every gun and accessory you own, in fact they will be your most prized possessions.

If I bought only what I needed, I'd have a ton of extra space in the house and in my garage.
I could do everything I need to do with just a few guns. I could also golf with a 7 iron, a wedge and a putter, but like others, I don't.
I could get by with a Prius instead of my crew cab diesel F-250, but it ain't gonna happen. ?

I'm not in a disagreement with you at all.
For the most part, we are on the same page.

What is being pointed out is the people that refuse to learn technique. They refuse to practice. They don't want to learn to do things correctly.

They think they can buy their game. This is where the equipment before commitment phrase is absolutely spot on.

It's the guy that buys the best, but never really bothered to learn what we're talking about.

The guy, like yourself that buys good stuff, takes the time to learn and seek answers isn't the issue.
From day one, you've asked good questions, taken the answers and put them into practice.
You're not the type of guy to go to the range and talk people's ear off about how bad assed of a SEaL Sniper you are. ???


It's those other guys.


We want them to come over to the school house and spend some time learning and then put those lessons into practice so it becomes a skill set.

 

[Walter Haas]

If I bought only what I needed, I'd have a ton of extra space in the house and in my garage.
I could do everything I need to do with just a few guns. I could also golf with a 7 iron, a wedge and a putter, but like others, I don't.
I could get by with a Prius instead of my crew cab diesel F-250, but it ain't gonna happen. ?

I'm not in a disagreement with you at all.
For the most part, we are on the same page.

What is being pointed out is the people that refuse to learn technique. They refuse to practice. They don't want to learn to do things correctly.

They think they can buy their game. This is where the equipment before commitment phrase is absolutely spot on.

It's the guy that buys the best, but never really bothered to learn that we're talking about.

The guy, like yourself that buys good stuff, takes the time to learn and seek answers isn't the issue.
From day one, you've asked good questions, taken the answers and put them into practice.
You're not the type of guy to go to the range and talk people's ear off about how bad assed of a SEaL Sniper you are. ???


It's those other guys.


We want them to come over to the school house and spend some time learning and then put those lessons into practice so it becomes a skill set.

I don’t observe this stuff because when I go to the range I’m in and out. I show up, I display my lack of knowledge, then I leave. ?

 

[kthomas]

Preach brother.

We live in a supercharged consumer based world, where there's a product to solve every problem (real and imaginary). We are so hardwired now to purchasing items with the goal of solving a problem and/or make something more "effortless" that it becomes a subconscious response almost. Doesn't help that we get bombarded with ads for products directly geared to our interests using AI algorithms based on browser history. Companies have this down to a psychological science get us to purchase shit we don't need.

People would rather hit the "easy button" then put the hard work in. Want to hit more stuff off a barricade? Buy an AMP plate and use with a barricade bag. Having a hard time spotting trace? Here's a 5+ lb weight kit for your rifle to use in conjunction with your 6 Dasher, 6 oz trigger and free recoil. Etc. Etc. Etc.

We're all guilty of it to some degree. I think it's great to put more focus on this topic, it's good to have a reminder of where are priorities and efforts need to be. We probably all need to realign our focus to varying degrees.

The single best money I've ever spent on this sport was not anything gear related, but a PR1&2 class at Rifles Only. The skillset I learned from that class paid dividends. Can't say the same for any piece of gear I've purchased, and I have some Gucci shit.

Good conversation.

 

[kthomas]

I know a lot of people don't like golf, but there are a lot of golfers that are gear whores also.

Go to any golf course, especially country club courses.

Look at the bags holding the clubs. What you'll see is a ton of $3-4k sets of clubs with $500 drivers sticking out of the bag.

Take a walk along the edges of the fairways and you'll find hundreds of $7.00 golf balls littering the woods parallel to the course.

These guys buy top end gear, but they refuse to spend the time practicing to get better.
They are trying to buy a good game instead of paying the actual price of time and practice.

Yeah, some equipment is way more forgiving. If one takes the time with any endeavor to practice correctly, they will get better, and the top of the line gear will make it easier.

Frank,
thanks for reminding me and others here that (proper) practicing is still the most important part of shooting.

Golfers are some of the worst offenders, and I say this as a golfer. However, my irons are from 2006 with no plans on updating them.

Golf manufacturers market the shit out of their products, it's absolutely crazy the claims they make. "The new Driver 'X' is 20 yards longer then previous years models" blah, blah blah.

Lots of golfers buy it hook line and sinker. And their handicap never changes. Funny how they never put two and two together and realize that.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Golfers are some of the worst offenders, and I say this as a golfer. However, my irons are from 2006 with no plans on updating them.

Golf manufacturers market the shit out of their products, it's absolutely crazy the claims they make. "The new Driver 'X' is 20 yards longer then previous years models" blah, blah blah.

Lots of golfers buy it hook line and sinker. And their handicap never changes. Funny how they never put two and two together and realize that.

BOOM

 

[Mike Casselton]

I've been spending my time hitting golf balls at 300yds.

No clubs involved, just a rack of ten balls and we, @8pointer and myself, take turns whacking balls with bullets.

It's a ton of fun and we never bother looking for lost balls.

 

[riddle326]

Nah, we wont be friends. Your reading comprehension would prevent us having any sort of equal relationship.

I have no issue with you, the eager motivated learner.

My issue is with the guy that in the moment decides this will be his hobby, immediately orders up all the current popular "latest and greatest gear" and immediately this bestows upon him expertise.

Believe me that exists. They are offering to let you shoot their rifle as a means to have you "envy" them. They want to hear you praise their gear. I wont give it to them.

Someone says "Shit I seem to be all over the place. Can you shoot this so I can try to see if its me or the gear" that's legit.

By the way $5k is a serious expenditure on equipment. Id expect you are beyond the "just getting into marksmanship" level. You have been through the progression of firearms somewhat.

If not, perhaps spending some of that money on "critical reading skills" would have been money well spent.

Edit/add - Paragraphs and line spacing are your friends.

yes, you are right. I apologize. Somehow I did not catch your last paragraph.

The scope I got was most of the 5k, but so far, I am happy with my rifle setup.

 

[pmclaine]

yes, you are right. I apologize. Somehow I did not catch your last paragraph.

The scope I got was most of the 5k, but so far, I am happy with my rifle setup.

Price doesn't matter as long as you are working it friend.

 

[JohnnyAuto]

Nah, we wont be friends. Your reading comprehension would prevent us having any sort of equal relationship.

I have no issue with you, the eager motivated learner.

My issue is with the guy that in the moment decides this will be his hobby, immediately orders up all the current popular "latest and greatest gear" and immediately this bestows upon him expertise.

Believe me that exists. They are offering to let you shoot their rifle as a means to have you "envy" them. They want to hear you praise their gear. I wont give it to them.

Someone says "Shit I seem to be all over the place. Can you shoot this so I can try to see if its me or the gear" that's legit.

By the way $5k is a serious expenditure on equipment. Id expect you are beyond the "just getting into marksmanship" level. You have been through the progression of firearms somewhat.

If not, perhaps spending some of that money on "critical reading skills" would have been money well spent.

Edit/add - Paragraphs and line spacing are your friends.

I am fairly new at this, just starting last summer, but its people like this, with some type of smug righteous indignation, that make we want to stay shooting on my friends private property instead of going to the range meeting people making friends and being able to ask questions and learn. I do not have 9K in gear but I do have about 5K in my rig setup, mainly because a pet peeve of mine is buying something cheaper, only to find out I should have just put that money and a little more to get a better piece of equipment. That kills me. I too have asked people if they wanted to shoot my rifle, not because I am feeling charitable, but its just being neighborly and allows me to see, provided you have the prowess, to know what groups my rifle is capable of shooting as I already know what i can do so far. It also breaks the ice so I feel more able to ask questions (Maybe make a friend or mentor) and possibly learn things I might be unaware of yet. The way you are talking, I would have thought the Real cherry on top would be to go ahead and shoot his rifle. Letting him watch you get a better group than him, but then thats what I would be hoping would happen. Proving my rifle shoots better than me and I can do better. I would be thanking you for motivating me to practice more and eventually match or beat that group. Hell, who knows, we could have been best friends(

For sure, as we can plainly see from a lot of the posts in this discussion, there are a lot of clairvoyant folks out there who can divine one's intentions simply by observing the quality of one's gear, and that allows them to pass judgement on their fellow shooters. It seems like you just can't win. If you have the best gear but marginally skilled, then you're either trying to "buy" skill instead of "earning" it, or a show-off who didn't pay your dues by putting up with the headaches of using lesser equipment first.

Sometimes people who are new to the shooting sports purchase highest quality gear because 1) they can afford it, 2) that's what they've read about or seen that's what successful shooters use, or 3) they think it's cool and so they want it. I mean Hell's bells, how many Mustangs did Ford sell when they started winning races? People want to be associated with who they perceive to be as winners. Is there an element of showing off? Maybe, maybe not, but who cares? Really - why the hell should I care what kind of kit the guy next to me has, whether he knows how to use it or not??? I don't effing know - nor do I care - whether he's dedicated or not, unless he's on my team and we're shooting for money. I'm happy with the size of my pecker, so I don't have to skulk around passing judgement on everybody else.

Go forth brother, and enjoy your time at the range, and I hope you form many lasting friendships.

 

[pmclaine]

For sure, as we can plainly see from a lot of the posts in this discussion, there are a lot of clairvoyant folks out there who can divine one's intentions simply by observing the quality of one's gear, and that allows them to pass judgement on their fellow shooters. It seems like you just can't win. If you have the best gear but marginally skilled, then you're either trying to "buy" skill instead of "earning" it, or a show-off who didn't pay your dues by putting up with the headaches of using lesser equipment first.

Sometimes people who are new to the shooting sports purchase highest quality gear because 1) they can afford it, 2) that's what they've read about or seen that's what successful shooters use, or 3) they think it's cool and so they want it. I mean Hell's bells, how many Mustangs did Ford sell when they started winning races? People want to be associated with who they perceive to be as winners. Is there an element of showing off? Maybe, maybe not, but who cares? Really - why the hell should I care what kind of kit the guy next to me has, whether he knows how to use it or not??? I don't effing know - nor do I care - whether he's dedicated or not, unless he's on my team and we're shooting for money. I'm happy with the size of my pecker, so I don't have to skulk around passing judgement on everybody else.

Go forth brother, and enjoy your time at the range, and I hope you form many lasting friendships.

It's not the gear it's the attitude.

You can't read the written word so I doubt you can read people.

 

[JohnnyAuto]

It's not the gear it's the attitude.

You can't read the written word so I doubt you can read people.

Hmm... Okay, if you say so.

 

[Average guy]

Great post Frank. Solid gear and tons of ammo. Shoot and analyze. Good results come easy great results take time and effort. So many people look down their noses at my budget rebarrel Jobs. But most can’t match the accuracy or load. It not due to superior equipment or components. It all time invested and rounds down range.

 

[mkollman74]

I hate those guys.

...life is hard

 

[Walter Haas]

For sure, as we can plainly see from a lot of the posts in this discussion, there are a lot of clairvoyant folks out there who can divine one's intentions simply by observing the quality of one's gear, and that allows them to pass judgement on their fellow shooters. It seems like you just can't win. If you have the best gear but marginally skilled, then you're either trying to "buy" skill instead of "earning" it, or a show-off who didn't pay your dues by putting up with the headaches of using lesser equipment first.

Sometimes people who are new to the shooting sports purchase highest quality gear because 1) they can afford it, 2) that's what they've read about or seen that's what successful shooters use, or 3) they think it's cool and so they want it. I mean Hell's bells, how many Mustangs did Ford sell when they started winning races? People want to be associated with who they perceive to be as winners. Is there an element of showing off? Maybe, maybe not, but who cares? Really - why the hell should I care what kind of kit the guy next to me has, whether he knows how to use it or not??? I don't effing know - nor do I care - whether he's dedicated or not, unless he's on my team and we're shooting for money. I'm happy with the size of my pecker, so I don't have to skulk around passing judgement on everybody else.

Go forth brother, and enjoy your time at the range, and I hope you form many lasting friendships.

Thank you! I never thought I could buy the ability to shoot well. I dry fire 50 to 90 times a day and work with an instructor, about to become two, instructors. I don't have big ambitions, though, I just want to know that I own the 600 yard radius around me. If I could expand that to 800 that would be great. What can I hit on the very first round with 100% confidence, that's what interests me. Right now that's 100 yards, btw, but its better than nothing!

 

[Lowlight]

This is not just about someone spending a certain amount of money

We see guys that buy the $18k PSR/ASR kits from MHSA who come right to a class. Pick up their rifles and roll right into instruction.

That is not the same as a guy chasing and buying gear, even good gear and complaining he has not reached a certain point, mainly because he just dabbles in this versus taking an active interest in his personal growth

For many, growth means new, and not refined. Having means is not a problem, buying the best you can afford the first time is not the problem, it's guys who you never see out and shoot, except alone of course, yet they are chasing the best glass they can by trying every $3k scope they can find never liking any. It's chasing caliber, I need a 6CM, oh no wait Billy won with a 6 Dasher I need that, no wait, Gap came out with the 6GT I should move to that.

This is about the effort, regardless of the cost of equipment. You can spend nothing on your set up, get a used Remington 5R with factory ammo, but if you only shoot it once a month, don't bitch your equipment is holding you back. It's about the EFFORT not the money spent.

I don't care if your only rifle is a Ruger RPR in 223, if you learn to master it, moving to other calibers will be much easier. I would rather see a guy come to class and rent a rifle because he is not sure, than buy something that not suited for his personal needs.

 

[PR3AK]

This is why I have vowed to leave my CTR stock till I shoot the barrel out.......

Just because I've had people accuse me that the only reason my groups where good was because I spent more on my gun.........

So the Tikka will stay stock ... at least till the stock tube is gone..

 

[Tokay444]

Worrying about what people say isn’t something I’d be worrying about. Men do whatever the fuck they want.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Just because I've had people accuse me that the only reason my groups where good was because I spent more on my gun.........

Hand them your rifle and tell them to repeat it.

 

[PR3AK]

Hand them your rifle and tell them to repeat it.

That's what I said... they usually decline hahaha.....

and the ones that do shoot I usually tell them they did a good job because I'm not a poor sport.

But they see right there who's group is smaller and they usually change their demeanor and say something like
,"man that's a nice shooting rifle".

 

[Centuriator]

Here is what I see as a bigger problem, Trying to buy a hit versus putting the sweat equity in to earn the impact.

Precisely!!!

The same thing happens with guys who are into photography. There are those who are all about getting the best shot and those who believe that if they had "just the right" equipment, the good shots will come easy. Same. Exact. Thing. Ironically, we even use the same lingo in the photography world, "Take the shot!" "Get a great shot."

Probably true of any type of situation where there is hardware involved.

"If I just had the right putter...."

"If I just had the right rod and reel..."

etc.

I cut my teeth mastering shooting fundamentals with a single shot Benjamin air rifle and open iron sights, shooting tin cans bobbing out in the bayou. Ditto for the guys who learned to shoot with a single shot .22LR.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

That's what I said... they usually decline hahaha.....

and the ones that do shoot I usually tell them they did a good job because I'm not a poor sport.

But they see right there who's group is smaller and they usually change their demeanor and say something like
,"man that's a nice shooting rifle".

I usually hear, "That's pretty good for the first time shooing that rifle.".

 

[Xtate]

It's the Indian not the bow! However it is very hard for a beginner to do good work with shitty optics, a 8lb creppy trigger and a rifle that kicks like mule. That aside nobody can buy wind reading skill, that only comes with lots of trigger time in none perfect conditions.

 

[CRT2]

If I wrote as much as you and had to deal with that, that would make me go back to smoking fags......

Isn’t that an illegal act?

 

[Centuriator]

Had he been the next urinal over and reached over to grab my crank I would probably have been less upset.

Really? Ok...no judgement here, but .... wow.

 

[Lowlight]

You guys have a reading comprehension problem,

it’s not about how much money you spent or buying good gear, it’s about learning to use it correctly and not chasing gear in order to feel like you need it to get ahead. Time invested in whatever gear you own or can afford is more valuable than constantly purchasing the latest and greatest But never taking the time to master it.

it’s about the guy that makes a series of redundant updates to his equipment before mastering the basics. they own it all and excel at none of it.

it’s not a buy once cry once mindset, it’s buy one, than another, then midstream switch again people. Simply because the read it’s the thing to have.

its about blaming your gear while never making the effort to improve with it. In short, it’s about the mindset that this element of the sport, the gear race, that sets people apart. Ignoring the practice, the numbers of rounds put down range but instead focusing on the product in hand and not what it takes to master it.

lately the more i write and record the less I like the spin people apply to it in order to make themselves feel better because the truth hurts.

 

[pmclaine]

Builds forum to create a salon of sorts to advance science and theory of marksmanship through bringing together minds dedicated to pushing the limits and expanding the boundaries of knowledge in serious in depth discussion than learns.....the salon is inhabited by autistics that can't join 4chan.........

 

[Lowlight]

It's a change in dynamic for sure,

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Really? Ok...no judgement here, but .... wow.

Who are you?

 

[pmclaine]

Who are you?

The guy that passes thirty empty urinals to use the one right beside you.........

 

[1J04]

The guy that passes thirty empty urinals to use the one right beside you.........

I "think" I know what you meant, maybe.?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Ted and Richie are in college, and they have to work a lot harder than we do in high school so they don't have the time to sell. And besides it's a lot easier for guys to get busted than for girls. At first it was pretty hard to keep my cool around the Establishment, but since I'm now Richie's chick all the way I have to do what I can to help him.

Now, wtf...

 

[Nik H]

You get a pass.

You are behind enemy lines in the belly of the beast.

We need more of you there.

I was going to say be kind to the San Franciscan @Walter Haas

We do need more of you there

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Excellent article. It said so many necessary things so very well; it has clearly been polished and polished again.

I agree with those things that I actually have enough knowledge about to comment upon; and there remain quite a few that I honestly can't say much about.

I learned my shooting from my Brothers, with guns that were too big for me, then with loaned 22LR single shot rifles at the PAL, and finally got my hands on an M-14 at Parris Island. The gear that folks use a lot of bandwidth talking about on here weren't even imagined back then.

That neither did nor didn't make me a better shooter. What it did do was allow me a genuine comparison upon which to base the progression of skills. It forced me to make do with the more, maybe the most, basic of equipment.

I learned by first envying, then being confused by, the folks who had that especially desirable gear. One and one was supposed to make two, but far too often, it never made it past one.

The main thing that disturbs me is how many folks treat time as inexhaustible. It ain't, and especially so for me these days.

My view of the neat stuff is that it's really neat, and that somebody (else?) will get to enjoy that stuff. No envy; facts don't allow envy.

I won't tell anyone what they need, I try (and often enough, do) to acquaint folks with moderately capable and moderately priced equipment. Back at the beginning of SH, I would do my best to get the marksmanship and equipment basics out there before the eyeballs of the early 'Hiders. Quite soon, their grasp exceeded my own reach, and good on them for doing it.

I would stress that the accomplished marksman could wring the most out of any equipment, mainly because being constrained to familiarity with only the best could be a handicap all in and of itself. If thy trigger offends thee, and it's all you got, you still gotta shoot it. My life, and many other lives, depended on the issue grade M-14's trigger. Too late to complain about the lowest bidder.

This is all one and the same with Frank's article, and these may be the exceptions that confirm his rules.

Bravo, Frank; again, a most excellent article.

Greg

 

[Nik H]

it’s not a buy once cry once mindset, it’s buy one, than another, then midstream switch again people. Simply because they read it’s the thing to have.

its about blaming your gear while never making the effort to improve with it. In short, it’s about the mindset that this element of the sport, the gear race, that sets people apart. Ignoring the practice, the numbers of rounds put down range but instead focusing on the product in hand and not what it takes to master it.

Bingo...

 

[CRT2]

The message is clear and well-presented. I enjoy high quality gear - AI AXMC. For me, I hope to shoot to the level the gear is capable of. I like knowing it is me and not the gear that is the problem.

 

[Jaron3]

Haha. I used to be a wrestling coach. I would tell the kids, “Practice doesn’t make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Take your time and do it correctly and then pick up the pace.”
Seems that my own advise rings true in the shooting world as well. Damn I have a bunch to learn. It’s gonna be a fun journey.

 

[spife7980]

The guy that passes thirty empty urinals to use the one right beside you.........

 

[Steel head]

View attachment 7268976

 

[Steel head]

While buying nice equipment won’t necessarily give you instant skilz skills running my nucleus vs my savage yesterday sure made me appreciate the nuke and I think my savage is a pretty nice shooter for a cheaper rifle.

 

[Lowlight]

Well this thread went south

don't really see the sense in trying to salvage it, but sure, good gear matters, we say that all the time

Look at my rants on Bipods, 90% of the shooters out there will dismiss the charge the Harris is inferior and holding you back, but those that experiment with other brands see the light.

Learning on inferior gear is sometimes a benefit, it educates you on the direction to upgrade. Makes your buying smarter instead of throwing good money after bad choices.

Many of us came up with factory stock guns like a 700 LTR one was one of my first, move to others from there.

When you learn what goes into the sport, especially if you picking a specific discipline within Shooting, you quickly learn what not to buy and what works well.

Part of the GAP 6GT video I just posted was to educate on the elements of what guys are using versus doing a straight-up review and saying buy this rifle. Instead, I said, Look where they are now if you want to be part of this group you want to include features of this setup.

Or I could have said, Manners TCS, GAP 6GT buy it ... cause it's accurate and awesome

 

[Steel head]

Well this thread went south

don't really see the sense in trying to salvage it, but sure, good gear matters, we say that all the time

Look at my rants on Bipods, 90% of the shooters out there will dismiss the charge the Harris is inferior and holding you back, but those that experiment with other brands see the light.

Learning on inferior gear is sometimes a benefit, it educates you on the direction to upgrade. Makes your buying smarter instead of throwing good money after bad choices.

Many of us came up with factory stock guns like a 700 LTR one was one of my first, move to others from there.

When you learn what goes into the sport, especially if you picking a specific discipline within Shooting, you quickly learn what not to buy and what works well.

Part of the GAP 6GT video I just posted was to educate on the elements of what guys are using versus doing a straight-up review and saying buy this rifle. Instead, I said, Look where they are now if you want to be part of this group you want to include features of this setup.

Or I could have said, Manners TCS, GAP 6GT buy it ... cause it's accurate and awesome

I liked that vid.
Good breakdown of the features of that rifle.

As someone who doesn’t do PRS I could really appreciate that rifle out in the woods banging steel.
It really looks like it shot like a sweetheart.

That’s why my savage in 260 sticks around.
It’s just so pleasant to shoot.