Jocko on Donald Trumps Leadership

pmclaine

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    I have much respect for Willink. Anyone know his views on 2A?

    Also, might wanna keep in mind that imo Willink has political aspirations...and has ultimately had em for quite a few years JUST MY OPINION/OBSERVATIONS..!!!!
    eg: See the ticket with him, Tulsi, Dan Crenshaw, etc running together.


    Tulsi, Dan Crenshaw?

    Well there is two out of three anti gun.

    Listen even at his lowest - the last 10 days - Trump has done more than most do in 4 years....

    DHS rounded up another 100 plus people for child trafficking.

    Master mind of AmEmbassy bombings taken out through coordination with Israel.

    Vaccine for fake flu rolling out

    "Oh but boo hoo he talks mean and I dont want him to fuck my daughter.....Id rather some preppy guy that is all nice and polished to Eiffel Tower my little girl with one of his frat brothers."

    Fucking pussies!

    I dont care what your service was.

    I can respect your mil service but think your opinions suck, especially if they hurt America.
     

    pmclaine

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    Here is a picture of 2 buildings on the East River in NYC.

    One of them is the UN Building, guess what the other one is.......


    Curiosity button pressed..........
     

    Threadcutter308

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    Go back as far as you'd like, go through ALL the threads I've posted / made about political subjects and THE ONLY THING you'll find, if you're willing to actually read the posts, are that people in here are rude as F and calling everyone who's not a Trump / Republican communists, cocksuckers, wankers, gay, child abusers ect

    I have NEVER started or even participated in that shit.

    Fact
    Not fact.

    Your joke sometime ago here about Jews and ovens was particularly repugnant. You are the only person that I have ever reported and I reported you for that. You are exactly what others here are saying you are. SMH as to why you haven’t been permanently banned.
     
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    pmclaine

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    Ha, Ha!

    1605359616711.png

    No wonder he is so far back on the stock trying to look at the tiny image projected in the objective.....

    Maybe he is a "scope shadow" fan. Kind of like a red dot when you dont have a red dot.
     

    pmclaine

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    So only "Real Men" are from America?
    Fuck off idiot.
    That's exactly the kind of bullshit we expect from lower functioning retards, which is easy to observe, you belong to.
    Trump never served, due to his "bone spurs" and a distinct lack of guts.
    What's pitiful, is you guys worshipping this narcissistic, pathological liar.
    He is the epitome of all the bad traits of Americans, rolled up into one fat, toxic, lump.
    I'd put my lot in with a squad of Swedes, Finns,Danes, Germans, before trusting some shitmouthed fucktard like you.
    I have had the honour of working alongside some really decent American blokes.
    And you aren't a shadow of who they are.
    But carry on with the hate, because it's all you got.


    "Blokes"

    Are you a British subject?

    Just in todays Daily Mail.....

    Trumps accomplishments....

    1. In coordination with Israel green lighted the killing of a terrorist with American blood on his hands.
    2. Rounded up another 100 plus people involved in child trafficking. Got another 100 plus internationally earlier this week.
    3. "Warp Speed" is rolling out the vaccine for the fake flu because everyone demanded the next potential thalidomide.

    A guy that gets shit done vs a guy that wants me to wear a face diaper and intends to kill the economy with a shut down for fake flu.
     

    E. Bryant

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    I’m surprised Jocko would take on the topic given what’s actually going on in the country. It would be much more relevant to contrast Trump and Biden, in which case he’d likely favor trump by a large margin. Maybe I’m wrong.

    Keep in mind that this video predates the 2020 election by quite some time - I believe this interview was first posted in early 2019 (the link provided by the OP was not from the original source). So contrasting Trump with Biden was not the most logical approach.
     

    lariat

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    I like a lot of Jocko’s stuff and a lot of it is good advice or entertainment. I do think he is wrong this time. Every single one of us have misinformed ideas about Trump based on what media outlet we ingest. I really wonder if anyone knows who he is as a person. I do know that he has taken a barrage of attacks and has been more effective than anything recently filling the White House, and doesn’t seem to be ready for the US to take a back seat. When you want to deliver those kind of goods and have what seems like the entire world that wants otherwise it pays to be more than a little caustic - it’s going to be one of the few tools that you will always have available. That has nothing to do with leadership but everything to do with reaching a goal.

    One of the things I have learned is that when you are running a business you must never let others take advantage of you or it will turn into a habit and your business will suffer or die. Correcting that incursion can be done softly but sometimes needs to be crushing so that it doesn’t happen again. That was a hard lesson to learn and people do get upset when you rein them in and tell them no. But the fact is that there are and will continue to be people that want to take advantage of others, and always for their gain. I see a lot of what Trump is doing is establishing those lines and then training others to not cross them. China, Pelosi, the EU not paying UN money, and others come to mind.
     

    lariat

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    I would also say I don’t agree with Jocko’s use of words in Extreme Ownership. As the leader, yes, everything is my fault. But there comes a time when it must be recognized that the root cause is a person who needs to be removed from the team, usually due to willful disobedience. As soon as I catch a hint of that these days I switch gears from mentoring to finding a replacement. If I let them stay it’s definitely my fault. But them not performing is on them and I don’t see in his many podcasts where he acknowledges that facet of individual responsibility. Seems like everything is the fault of the leader, and while I understand the concept I don’t find it 100% accurate in all instances.
     

    brianf

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    From my conversations its not even sour grapes. Its just not being able to comprehend freedom in the same way. We take it for granted, but its a much more complex, especially to those who have no way to reason it.

    Its like if you had someone who lives on a cloud, and you tried to explain the meaning of a hard surface. You could define it with words, you could explain away. But they would never understand it, because they cant experience it.


    Example:

    When McDonald’s opened up its first store in USSR.

    The patrons (Moscow if I remember) were all standing on one very long line

    The other tellers were asking them to come over but they had no basis of freedom of choice in their culture.

    Add to it that the patrons were found taking the burger wrappers home and not throwing them out...why...to be used as toilet paper.

    There are several books written (not by some half assed authors either) that describe and explain the issues that a populace endured while transforming into a relatively free society from one of oppression.

    The same steps and mistakes have been made since the Egyptians began to decline. It’s funny yet sad at the same time that human psychology cannot jump those steps even with modern day education relatively speaking.
     

    E. Bryant

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    I would also say I don’t agree with Jocko’s use of words in Extreme Ownership. As the leader, yes, everything is my fault. But there comes a time when it must be recognized that the root cause is a person who needs to be removed from the team, usually due to willful disobedience. As soon as I catch a hint of that these days I switch gears from mentoring to finding a replacement. If I let them stay it’s definitely my fault. But them not performing is on them and I don’t see in his many podcasts where he acknowledges that facet of individual responsibility. Seems like everything is the fault of the leader, and while I understand the concept I don’t find it 100% accurate in all instances.

    Someone hasn't read Dichotomy of Leadership.
     

    brianf

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    Also about the video..

    I don’t agree but I’ll refrain from putting his ideas down.

    In my opinion,

    If your getting shot at while I’m on my couch watching TV

    You’ve earned the respect to say what you want

    Now if your stationed in Guam cleaning bathrooms on a air force base..shut your mouth.
     

    Forgetful Coyote

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    Well this tweet clears that up IMO
    Mr Willink can say what he wants, he if anyone has earned that, and it appears he’s 100% on “our side”(We, the people...as the phrase was intended circa 1776, to be clear). I don’t consider socialists actively hoping for subversion of USA as past of ‘we, the people’.

    Being a president is much different from CEO, as I’m sure DJT has learned. You need the best possible person for each job, because it’s simply impossible to be an expert at each one or even know very much about some of the jobs a president takes on.
    And then to top it off, having nearly every individual in nearly every level of government (along with the media) working 24/7 not for you, but to undermine you..?? I wonder how well Jocko himself would look in that situation???
     

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    pmclaine

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    Example:

    When McDonald’s opened up its first store in USSR.

    The patrons (Moscow if I remember) were all standing on one very long line

    The other tellers were asking them to come over but they had no basis of freedom of choice in their culture.

    Add to it that the patrons were found taking the burger wrappers home and not throwing them out...why...to be used as toilet paper.

    There are several books written (not by some half assed authors either) that describe and explain the issues that a populace endured while transforming into a relatively free society from one of oppression.

    The same steps and mistakes have been made since the Egyptians began to decline. It’s funny yet sad at the same time that human psychology cannot jump those steps even with modern day education relatively speaking.


    I was there at the time.

    The way it worked was if it was on the shelf you bought it.

    If it was bought but the wrong size you tried to trade for the right size or something you needed.

    If you wanted to buy something you stood in line and got up to a woman that gave you a receipt for your purchase......than you went and stood in another line to have a clerk get you your shit

    after enough lines you could get yourself some sweet clothes.......

    Mp2T4vMl.jpg

    Bet that pissed the KGB off.
     

    E. Bryant

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    Being a president is much different from CEO, as I’m sure DJT has learned. You need the best possible person for each job, because it’s simply impossible to be an expert at each one or even know very much about some of the jobs a president takes on.
    And then to top it off, having nearly every individual in nearly every level of government (along with the media) working 24/7 not for you, but to undermine you..?? I wonder how well Jocko himself would look in that situation???

    If you spend enough time running someone else's large company (or your own small one), you might find that the above applies to the private sector as well.

    There are some mistakes that Trump undoubtedly made due to the unique nature of the job. And then there are some mistakes that he made due to what appears to be mind-boggling ignorance, ego, shitty advice, or some combination of the above.
     
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    E. Bryant

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    Incorrect. I Simply disagree with what he emphasizes in his podcasts

    Here's what he wrote on this subject:

    "On any team, in any organization, all responsibility for success and failure rests with the leader. The leader must own everything in his or her world. There is no one else to blame. The leader must acknowledge mistakes and admit failures, take ownership of them, and develop a plan to win.

    If an individual on the team is not performing at the level required for the team to succeed, the leader must train and mentor that underperformer. But if the underperformer continually fails to meet standards, then a leader who exercises Extreme Ownership must be loyal to the team and the mission above any individual. If underperformers cannot improve, the leader must make the tough call to terminate them and hire others who can get the job done. It is all on the leader."

    I'm genuinely curious about your objection to this part of the philosophy. Like you, I run my own business, so I ain't exactly taking potshots from behind the burger counter.
     

    lariat

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    I have absolutely no issue with the above quote. Through some hard lessons I have found this to be true. What I observe in his podcasts, however, is the call to the non-leading individual that they also have ownership that they must take for the team. He did this for a while when The Dichotomy of Leadership came about but I don’t hear it often any longer. Granted he does talk about discipline and that’s obviously a much needed discussion in this age, but the individual in their non-leadership team role and it’s importance are not discussed that often. Team role = responsibility, trust, ownership.

    I have had conversations with all of my employees at various times about leadership and give them some of his podcasts to listen to. One of the critical things I tell them when they first come on is that the best way to be a leader is to follow orders as a subordinate. This not only opens one’s mind to what is being done it also serves as an example to others. Doesn’t always stick but those who get it are the ones you want to keep and have always been trustworthy. And when they question the process I know that it is an honest assessment that should be listened to.

    Hopefully that clears up my position.
     

    LRRPF52

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    Curiosity button pressed..........
    That’s Trump Tower in NYC, built to literally tower over the UN building. Trump has been a critic of the UN for quite some time. In 2015, he testified before Congress that the proposed budget to renovate the UN building was bloated beyond comprehension, and could be done for much less. The UN cares more about renovating their NYC palace in between getting serviced by 50,000 prostitutes in the area, vs uses mostly American money to actually help starving and trafficked people abroad.

    In fact, the UN “security forces” of many 3rd-world nations often engage in human trafficking.

    We’ve never had a President who has been so willing to go to bat for the US like Trump has, and it exposes how sold-out the rest of them have been. Of course other nations are celebrating the idea that Trump will be gone so they can get back to business as usual buying-off corrupt politicians like Biden, the Clintons, and whatever stooges are waiting in the wings to fill those spaces in US Government.

    Loyalty to the Nation is a big thing for me, and doesn’t end after you retire or get out of military service. It’s a commitment for life.
     

    Rthur

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    Hardly can compare a Military chain of command with politicians that are intent on
    being insubordinate. Teddy said it best about the critic and the man in the arena.

    R
     

    lariat

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    Hardly can compare a Military chain of command with politicians that are intent on
    being insubordinate. Teddy said it best about the critic and the man in the arena.

    R
    I think you have hit the mark. It’s the intention of being insubordinate that is critical. If there is an honest screw-up you can place them elsewhere. Manipulative people with ill intent should not be bothered with. Show them the door. In the President’s case, call them out, make it painful publicly so that the electorate knows who they are. It’s not like they are going to become allies anyway.
     
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    quietmike

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    So only "Real Men" are from America?
    Fuck off idiot.
    That's exactly the kind of bullshit we expect from lower functioning retards, which is easy to observe, you belong to.
    Trump never served, due to his "bone spurs" and a distinct lack of guts.
    What's pitiful, is you guys worshipping this narcissistic, pathological liar.
    He is the epitome of all the bad traits of Americans, rolled up into one fat, toxic, lump.
    I'd put my lot in with a squad of Swedes, Finns,Danes, Germans, before trusting some shitmouthed fucktard like you.
    I have had the honour of working alongside some really decent American blokes.
    And you aren't a shadow of who they are.
    But carry on with the hate, because it's all you got.
    And Biden getting 5 deferments for asthma while he played football, was a lifeguard, and stood up to gangsters like corn pop is somehow different?
     

    seanh

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    Zero problem at all with fault falling on the leader. The problem Lies when its blame the leader instead of finding fault within themselves. This is where jackoff failed miserably in identifying that trend. And no, I'm not disrespecting The Man by calling him jackoff. I've said it to his face once before just fucking with him, I have no problem telling it to his face again... and yes, he did correct my attitude... LOL

    Jocko, go back and read your books. Then follow what you preach
     

    E. Bryant

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    I have absolutely no issue with the above quote. Through some hard lessons I have found this to be true. What I observe in his podcasts, however, is the call to the non-leading individual that they also have ownership that they must take for the team. He did this for a while when The Dichotomy of Leadership came about but I don’t hear it often any longer. Granted he does talk about discipline and that’s obviously a much needed discussion in this age, but the individual in their non-leadership team role and it’s importance are not discussed that often. Team role = responsibility, trust, ownership.

    I have had conversations with all of my employees at various times about leadership and give them some of his podcasts to listen to. One of the critical things I tell them when they first come on is that the best way to be a leader is to follow orders as a subordinate. This not only opens one’s mind to what is being done it also serves as an example to others. Doesn’t always stick but those who get it are the ones you want to keep and have always been trustworthy. And when they question the process I know that it is an honest assessment that should be listened to.

    Hopefully that clears up my position.

    Thanks for the clarification and the detailed post; much appreciated.

    With regards to placing emphasis on the role and behavior of subordinates in Extreme Ownership, check out his recent "field manual" (I think it's FM-02, but I don't have the book in my office at this moment). He spends some number of pages towards the beginning on addressing the points you bring up, and gets into a fair amount of detail on things like following orders, how to object to orders, and so on. I don't know if he's followed this up in his podcast (that's 700-some hours and I won't claim to have listened to 10+ work weeks of that content in detail), but it's all there in the books.

    The bottom line is that Jocko's collective written work is the closest thing I've come across to a comprehensive description of shit I've found to work on my quarter-century of doing complex engineering tasks in a complex business environment. I wish I would have been handed it when I was 20 instead of earning the scars on my own, but maybe it wouldn't have resonated in the same way 🤷‍♂️

    Now, how this applies to the original topic, fuck if I know. If indeed the president somehow made his adminstration stronger by surrounding himself with shitty people and picking unnecessary fights, then he's truly playing a game I can't comprehend and may God be with him. I suspect that's not really the case, and that a strong team of aligned subordinates working in a focused fashion could have achieved better results.