just a question...

[LRI]

Don't know shit about Israel or Jews. I have a perception however. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


Israel/Jews are a unified society. From the TV (probably the worst possible source of information anymore) I gather that "Jew" is more than sufficient when describing one's self. I watched a show once where an Israeli serviceman was walking down the shoulder of a busy road. He didn't make it 1/2 a mile before someone stopped and offered a ride.

From what I gather the society has unified because they exist in a virtual gauntlet; surrounded by a number of folks who'd like nothing more than to turn the whole place into a glass coffee table. (smile, wait for flash)

Maybe that's the key. Get enough of the world to hate you and your personal perspectives on needing a "club" to belong to changes and the core of what you are might begin to surface. Sure seems like a shit way to get to that level of thinking though.

I know when working for State and traveling abroad (Middle East, Europe, Africa, Far East) I learned quick to make myself as "low profile" as I possibly could. Nothing sucks more than being fist puppeted by customs on another continent.

C.

 

[thejeep]

Working illegal > leaching american.

 

[Guest]

Take a look at the FBI's statistics on crime, categorized by race.
What's missing?

FBI ? Table 43

 

[proneshooter]

Take a look at the FBI's statistics on crime, categorized by race.
What's missing?

FBI ? Table 43

If you're looking for Hispanic, it's not there because it's not a race.

 

[Cobracutter]

I am of Mexican descent and I am very proud of that. We have our high points and low points like any other race. I am an American first and illegal alien is illegal, no matter how old they are or where they come from.

I know some Latinos that sympathize with "wet backs" that cross the border for a better life because it's so hard over there. While some do work their asses off for wages American's would laugh at, it doesn't make it right...but, who the fuck is going to do what they do for the $$ they do it for? Welfare is too good to stoop to that level.

To paraphrase George Lopez... "If an illegal Mexican took your job, your job sucks."

We have enough free loading, red blooded American's to do everything for... Much less a bunch of illegals that don't habla.

This is the mentality and ignorance that pisses me off, not the first part but the second.

Saying Americans won't work for those wages is ignorance. First off, those wages should NEVER be that low. They are artificaly suppressed by the supply and ignoring of illegals in this country. People used to work hard for honest money. I agree the welfare angle is a HUGE problem, but what we are talking about here is supply and demand for labor. Looking at argiculture, those jobs should pay way more than what the currently do. Lookin at that someone made working in an orchard 50 years ago , today (adjusted for inflation, CPI and required costs/benefits/insurance/tax) it should pay much more than $7.50 (fed MW). I am not advocating a MW, just stating that the current price floors are not competitive. Yes this would cause food and certian "baskets" to cost more, but that is the price we need to pay. We are deffering all our costs on the back end (welfare, medical, schools, ect) that far surpass the little cost increase everyone has to pay for an apple or squash. The USA has the CHEAPEST FOOD IN THE WORLD, BY FAR. We pay an astronomicaly small proportion of our income to food (not eating red lobster every night) compared to the rest of the world. Many places spend 30-50% of their income on food alone. If there was not a surplus of cheap/disposible labor that the REST OF THE COUNTRY IS BURDENED WITH SCHOOLING, HOUSING, MEDICATING, JAILING,ect................then it would also depress many current things like school infation, housing inflation, and other costs. The end result would alot more Americans doing REAL labor (and building character and ethics) where $10-15/hr would be able to support a family living within their means.

Let the free markets work, WITHIN the framwork of laws on the books, and hunt/capture/kill anyone who is illegaly tresspasing in this country. Mine and arm the border, put bounties on illegals dead or alive, and you will see this imigration policy sort it self out in 6 months to a year.

 

[Pester]

While I agree with parts of what you say I am, frankly, struggling with some of your logic.

Can you please define 'culture'? The reason I ask is that, from your comments, I cant exactly determine how you are using that term. Notably, culture tends to be described, in the popular vernacular as 'us vs' them. We are hard wired to view our world in this fashion.....at every level. To achieve that we organically look at what makes us different and, hence, 'culture' is the highest level at which one views others as the same.

To Chads original point nationality would trump ethnicity. If you feel otherwise then you have made the decision for it to be different. Thats fine however you have made that decision and it says something about your world view. If you view ethnicity as being a primary driver in your culture, and its lower on your hierarchy of 'culture', then you have defined a more divisive culture rather than an inclusive one.

E.T. Halls definitive works in communication (as well as additional more recent works from others) would seem to define this differently than you are. If you are interested I might suggest "Understanding Cultural Differences". While this book is written from the perspective of business communications the core message remains the same whether is personal or business related communications.

In our current environment, where feelings overwhelm logic, intellectual integrity is frequently the casualty. Hence my question about how you define 'culture'.

Some here look at hyphenating as anti American. Well news for ya, you got hyphans. They run in your blood. Don't matter if you like em, there is no cure for you.

There is no pure blood "Americans" as you want to see it. We are all Americans with different cultures.

QUOTE]

 

[Cobracutter]

They were asians that came across the frozen bridge between modern Russia and Alaska. Humans started in Africa and spread from there. So the only true people to their continent are Africans...................


And they still are the most fucked up place in the world, even with a few hundred thousand year head start...........go figure.

 

[Maggot]

They were asians that came across the frozen bridge between modern Russia and Alaska. Humans started in Africa and spread from there. So the only true people to their continent are Africans...................


And they still are the most fucked up place in the world, even with a few hundred thousand year head start...........go figure.

So den you sayin we all be's niggas at hart? Sheeeit, us niggas gots to learns to works togeta.

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

This is the mentality and ignorance that pisses me off, not the first part but the second.

Saying Americans won't work for those wages is ignorance. First off, those wages should NEVER be that low. They are artificaly suppressed by the supply and ignoring of illegals in this country. People used to work hard for honest money. I agree the welfare angle is a HUGE problem, but what we are talking about here is supply and demand for labor. Looking at argiculture, those jobs should pay way more than what the currently do. Lookin at that someone made working in an orchard 50 years ago , today (adjusted for inflation, CPI and required costs/benefits/insurance/tax) it should pay much more than $7.50 (fed MW). I am not advocating a MW, just stating that the current price floors are not competitive. Yes this would cause food and certian "baskets" to cost more, but that is the price we need to pay. We are deffering all our costs on the back end (welfare, medical, schools, ect) that far surpass the little cost increase everyone has to pay for an apple or squash. The USA has the CHEAPEST FOOD IN THE WORLD, BY FAR. We pay an astronomicaly small proportion of our income to food (not eating red lobster every night) compared to the rest of the world. Many places spend 30-50% of their income on food alone. If there was not a surplus of cheap/disposible labor that the REST OF THE COUNTRY IS BURDENED WITH SCHOOLING, HOUSING, MEDICATING, JAILING,ect................then it would also depress many current things like school infation, housing inflation, and other costs. The end result would alot more Americans doing REAL labor (and building character and ethics) where $10-15/hr would be able to support a family living within their means.

Let the free markets work, WITHIN the framwork of laws on the books, and hunt/capture/kill anyone who is illegaly tresspasing in this country. Mine and arm the border, put bounties on illegals dead or alive, and you will see this imigration policy sort it self out in 6 months to a year.

You're talking should've, would've but my statement stills stands for the simple fact that that is the way it is. These people don't want to do shit! They get asked to look for even part time work, and they throw a shit fit. Drug test them, oh FUCK no! But they'll work for $15-$18 an hour at McDonalds or Subway... Right? I do agree that pay should be higher for some jobs but it is not. So, that's a good enough excuse to just say "fuck it, I'm not gonna work at all."?? Let the rest of America do it for me?

My wife works at the lowest income per parent school in our town and these people are all the same. Drop off their kids in pajamas and pick them up in the same outfit at 3p.m. 5th graders selling drugs at school, grandparents trying to raise their grand kids because mom and dad are in jail. Child services ain't doing shit about it. And finally they put a fuckin cap on how many kids the government will pay for!

Again, I agree with a lot of what you say. Simple fact is, people have been raised by the governments dollar and that is all they know. Generation after generation, work to them is getting up to go spend the free money, ebt, and cash assistance... If they didn't already sell for other things.

 

[pteranadon]

Culture: has many aspects as I see it. If would go to a baseball game, it is part of culture. if I go for pizza, it is part of culture. if I go to church, it is part of culture. if I practice anything it is part of culture. Whether it was created here in the United states or coming from say...like Germany and putting up a Christmas tree, it is culture.
Even if most Americans don't Practice what one would because it has no direct correlation to American culture, it still is part of American culture. (think melting pot)

As for jobs, etc and illegal aliens.
I watched a whole show coming from Colorado. The owner of the business had hired illegals. He got busted. His workers dug ditches in the wilderness where no machinery is allowed. It's hard labor. You can consider it as "bustin rocks" as if you were in jail.
He stated that 9 out of 10 white guys quit after one day. (he is white himself) he pays 12 an hour.
So the only thing left was he could hire people in jail. He paid, because of the "laws" or such, 1$ hour for the inmates.
The rest of the money goes towards security, etc.

I'm not saying it's better to hire illegals or hire inmates, but the story goes, there is/was jobs at 12 hr. It's hard work and he shown where some chose not to do it. He was (forced) due to lack of getting employees to hire the inmates.

My question is, on an economical basis only, is it better to pay 1$ hour to inmates or 12$ hour to illegals who will spend the money.
I've said it before, I am not for illegals being here. I want everyone to be legal.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

As important as my German heritage coming from my fathers' side, there is another side just as important.

I only wanted to point out that your culture is very important. If I were to say it isn't important and we are Americans and that's just it, should we also forget our other parts of the "melting pot"?

I also have another side of my culture. Some here may appreciate it. It's my mother's side:

They came from Ireland to Great Britain and then to the United States. They were among the first pilgrims here in the United States. They in a sense were the founding "fathers" of this country. They are as important to me as my German ancestors and culture.

I don't believe Americans came before the pilgrims? Pilgrims started this country. I guess some would say fuck pilgrims that's not American. fuck your culture and history and nationality.

Well those pilgrim ancestors of mine which started this country were Irish. They came to Great Britain. (would that make them Irish or british?) Then to America to start a new life.

Some here look at hyphenating as anti American. Well news for ya, you got hyphans. They run in your blood. Don't matter if you like em, there is no cure for you.

There is no pure blood "Americans" as you want to see it. We are all Americans with different cultures.

Mine happens to come from countries where they left because they wanted something better. They started something new for all of us.

With my history of my family going back that far, it would be safe to say I'm American. However I don't like hotdogs and baseball. Slice of Apple pie would be nice.

Ok, Let's go back to the original question. What's more important your nationality or ethnicity? You seem to be combing these two to make them one in the same. I am an American(US citizen) and my blood lines are Puerto Rican and Irish. The second part of the OP was, What are you? Are you an American first or a XXXX first. He used Hispanic but insert where ever your heritage is from. You are saying that because a persons heritage is XXXX he can only be hyphenated. So my question is. If I decide to live the life and culture of a Sumo Wrestler what does that make me? I am still an American First and only. That is where my citizenship is and my allegiance. How I live (culture) has nothing to do with inserting a hyphen in my nationality. Where does your allegiance lay? With America (USA) or XXXXX. In my opinion if you want to have a hyphen because you are unsure of where your allegiance falls then get to the freaking airport and get the hell out..

 

[pteranadon]

Ok, Let's go back to the original question. What's more important your nationality or ethnicity? You seem to be combing these two to make them one in the same. I am an American(US citizen) and my blood lines are Puerto Rican and Irish. The second part of the OP was, What are you? Are you an American first or a XXXX first. He used Hispanic but insert where ever your heritage is from. You are saying that because a persons heritage is XXXX he can only be hyphenated. So my question is. If I decide to live the life and culture of a Sumo Wrestler what does that make me? I am still an American First and only. That is where my citizenship is and my allegiance. How I live (culture) has nothing to do with inserting a hyphen in my nationality. Where does your allegiance lay? With America (USA) or XXXXX. In my opinion if you want to have a hyphen because you are unsure of where your allegiance falls then get to the freaking airport and get the hell out..

I don't think it's an allegiance. ethnicity or nationality is one and the same. You pick one over the other, and you end up confused.
I do not mean to sound like an asshole, I just may have a hard time getting what I want out, out.
You can eat sausages and drink beer like the best in Germany, and put a flag of the United States in your front lawn.
Both of those can be part of you and you shouldn't have to choose either one. They are both of you and that makes you American.
Now, speaking a language, I strongly believe there should be a National language. English. For the purpose of prosperity, one language. However there isn't anything wrong with speaking other languages.

 

[pteranadon]

I would like to add, that the ancestors of our country originally came to America for freedom of religion and freedom from religion. And many other reasons to create what we have "become". They were "slighted" by someone who went to the British government and told of the plan. This person felt it was in the best interest, due to funding and backing up the plan with a country with many resources. The British government wasn't in the "plan" but they were in the plan to start new colonies. If you know what I mean. This is all in the history books in Great Britain today.

The master plan took years, and a revolution. But the important thing to know, what we have become was planned before they set sail.

These people who wanted to come to America wanted to start a new life. They didn't want to rid themselves of everything they did, or any aspect where they came from. They just wanted away from the government. Forced to work for the government in (taxes) and then forced to go to church (mostly to keep the people in line).

After they started to colonize the British government started to see the ideas of the new colony of people. They forced their rules even stronger and made it clear they were there for the mother country, not to start a new life and a new country.

These people didn't want to give up their traditions. They didn't want to give up their "culture." They just wanted to give up their ways of life in the old country due to their government. They wanted to start a new "ideal" country. That's why I say this country was started on idealism.

Many people who came here and during the revolution had the same question in mind. Are they British first, or are they going to be a new country (American) first?
They wanted the same things and ideal's that other's wanted, however they questioned who to pledge their allegiance to. It was a confusing time for them.

We don't live in those trying times. We are not at war so to say and have to make a choice of either one. We can choose both.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Well, the brits that came here because Britain sucked compared to what they got here, pre and post revolution.

 

[Cobracutter]

You're talking should've, would've but my statement stills stands for the simple fact that that is the way it is. These people don't want to do shit! They get asked to look for even part time work, and they throw a shit fit. Drug test them, oh FUCK no! But they'll work for $15-$18 an hour at McDonalds or Subway... Right? I do agree that pay should be higher for some jobs but it is not. So, that's a good enough excuse to just say "fuck it, I'm not gonna work at all."?? Let the rest of America do it for me?

My wife works at the lowest income per parent school in our town and these people are all the same. Drop off their kids in pajamas and pick them up in the same outfit at 3p.m. 5th graders selling drugs at school, grandparents trying to raise their grand kids because mom and dad are in jail. Child services ain't doing shit about it. And finally they put a fuckin cap on how many kids the government will pay for!

Again, I agree with a lot of what you say. Simple fact is, people have been raised by the governments dollar and that is all they know. Generation after generation, work to them is getting up to go spend the free money, ebt, and cash assistance... If they didn't already sell for other things.

That's what min wage and illegals get you. Artificially LOW prices and lack of jobs for those who want to work but can't compete. Higher min wage results in less jobs because companies will not raise prices enough to offset labor when they still 75%+ of their indirect labor and supply from illegal labor.


What needs to happen, is people need to starve. Cut the beast off and let people learn that you don't work, you fucking starve.

That's half the reason I wish for some apocalyptic economic meltdown and crash...........Lets let this bitch burn and start over fresh. We are ready for a reset.

 

[Maggot]

.Lets let this bitch burn and start over fresh. We are ready for a reset.

Unfortunately, and I really mean that, it may be what it takes. In fact Im not sure there is a way around it. When there is corruption from the cellar to the attic. its hard, if not impossible to repair.

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

That's what min wage and illegals get you. Artificially LOW prices and lack of jobs for those who want to work but can't compete. Higher min wage results in less jobs because companies will not raise prices enough to offset labor when they still 75%+ of their indirect labor and supply from illegal labor.


What needs to happen, is people need to starve. Cut the beast off and let people learn that you don't work, you fucking starve.

That's half the reason I wish for some apocalyptic economic meltdown and crash...........Lets let this bitch burn and start over fresh. We are ready for a reset.

I say, we have a beautiful home... Only problem is that it is infested with rats and cockroaches. No need to burn it down, the foundation, walls and ceiling are sound. All we need to do is exterminate the infestation, peacefully or there are other means of doing so.

 

[orkan]

You don't know how literal you are being. We had several people of an ethnicity different than my own, bring a computer in for service, which had so many cockroaches jammed into the heatsinks that their corpses physically stopped the fans, causing the computer to overheat. Those people live with cockroaches almost as if they are pets.

 

[rdinak]

I am an American without a hyphen. However I am frustrated that over the years the blocks on the 4473 changed and I cant be the same person I was born as.

WTF happened to when people came here from wherever, learned the language, and tried to assimilate into the culture?

Now we have people coming here, sucking up as many benefits as possible and cursing America for not respecting their differences. Sadly I think something has been lost.

 

[LRI]

FIX YOUR SHIT PLEASE...

OK man Really? This is the EXACT kind of shit that gets these topics locked down and erased. Don't be a doucher. Go back and fix this before this turns into a diaper packed with sauerkraut.


Please.


c.

 

[Maggot]

OK man Really? This is the EXACT kind of shit that gets these topics locked down and erased. Don't be a doucher. Go back and fix this before this turns into a diaper packed with sauerkraut.


Please.


c.

This really isnt what gets threads locked, and now, since youve quoted it, I cant fix it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My Dad was born in Northern Sweden, my Mom came from Hell's Kitchen in Midtown Manhattan, daughter of a Mother from County Mayo, Ireland and an Englishman with a German Dad.

My Wife was born in Bavaria, Daughter of a TexMex Dad, and the sole surviving child of a family whose entire male contingent was either killed or maimed during WWII in Russia.

Our families all came through Ellis or Corpus Christie. Legally.

We are both Americans.

I see no point in saying more because what I have said is already the entire point.

Greg

 

[Maggot]

My Dad was born in Northern Sweden, my Mom came from Hell's Kitchen in Midtown Manhattan, daughter of a Mother from County Mayo, Ireland and an Englishman with a German Dad.



Greg

That explains a lot.....just kidding, Greg. Your posts are refreshing.

 

[Yasherka]

The wife is a naturalized US citizen from Russia. She is proud to be an American and is more patriotic than many who were born here. She still has her Russian ways and we are raising our sons bilingual, but her allegiance is to this country (and she thinks Putin is evil incarnate).

Me? I was born here, I'm a Native American.

 

[Pester]

I suspect the issue is a matter of terms.

For many the clinical def of ethnicity is driven by race(ie DNA differences) where as others define ethnicity as a group that follows common traditions, beliefs, etc.

If you are utilzing ethnicity=a group with common traits, mores, etc then I can see your point. While that definition has a following its not the more nuanced definition used in more clinical discussions. I was slow in recognizing the difference in how the term was being utilized differently.

I am not sure how Chad was defining 'ethnic'

ethnicity or nationality is one and the same. You pick one over the other, and you end up confused.
I do not mean to sound like an asshole, I just may have a hard time getting what I want out, out.
QUOTE]

 

[hunterb]

CULTURE matters 1000x more than nationality and ethnicity combined.

Mexicans are not bad people, it's their sh*tty backwards culture that we hate. Corruption, misogyny, sexual abuse, lack of morality, etc.

Primitive, tribal cultures should be stamped out like obsolete species, and thrown in the dust bin of history to be forgotten.

Western CULTURE dominates, despite not being the majority population, not because of nationality or ethnicity.

It's about CULTURE folks, and ours is being polluted daily by backwards peasants.

 

[orkan]

I'm reminded of a scene from the movie "Crash."

Graham: [on the phone] Mom, I can't talk to you right now, okay? I'm having sex with a white woman.
[hangs up, and Ria gets out of bed]
Graham: OK, where were we?
Ria: I was white, and you were about to jerk off in the shower.
Graham: Oh, shit. Come on. I would have said you were Mexican, but I don't think it would have pissed her off as much.
Ria: Why do you keep everybody a certain distance, huh? What, you start to feel something and panic?
Graham: Come on, Maria. You're just pissed 'cause I answered the phone.
Ria: That's just where I begin to get pissed. I mean, really, what kind of man speaks to his mother that way, huh?
Graham: Oh, this is about my mother. What do you know about my mother?
Ria: If I was your father, I'd kick your fucking ass.
Graham: OK, I was raised badly. Why don't you take your clothes off, get back into bed, and teach me a lesson?
Ria: You want a lesson? I'll give you a lesson. How 'bout a geography lesson? My father's from Puerto Rico. My mother's from El Salvador. Neither one of those is Mexico.
Graham: Ah. Well then I guess the big mystery is, who gathered all those remarkably different cultures together and taught them all how to park their cars on their lawns?

 

[pmclaine]

The wife is a naturalized US citizen from Russia. She is proud to be an American and is more patriotic than many who were born here. She still has her Russian ways and we are raising our sons bilingual, but her allegiance is to this country (and she thinks Putin is evil incarnate).

Me? I was born here, I'm a Native American.

Those that work for it and assimilate get it. Some of those that were born to it take it for granted. Those that are simply handed it have no respect for it.

 

[Yasherka]

Those that work for it and assimilate get it. Some of those that were born to it take it for granted. Those that are simply handed it have no respect for it.

Well said!