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Rifle Scopes "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

eleaf

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
I finally received my Falcon Menace 4-14x44 FFP ML16/MIL scope from RWSnydergunsmithing.com and here is a 1st look impression of both the optics and the retailer.

These scopes are hard to come by. Falcon clearly has a pretty good deal (FFP, MIL/MIL, etc) for a low entry price that ought to entice many a new tactical shooters, or those looking for a tactical scope that isn't top of the line. But the company is a mess. Their web site has been inoperable for quite some time, and it seems that these scopes are VERY hard to find. Retailers might get a few, then be out for months. Even if their product s good, it doesn't bode well for their CS being that they are 1) foreign (not restrictive in itself, but makes it expensive for simple things like a phone call), 2) seemingly unavailable on the web. I hope I never have to use their CS, but if I do, I'm not confident that I can get things straight without jumping through all manner of hoops.

That said, RWsnydergunsmithing was absolutely fantastic throughout the transaction. He didn't have any in stock, and contacted me personally before he put them up for sale to the general public so that I could ensure getting one of my choice. He also wrote me personally here on the Hide so that he could tell me he had packaged and sent off the scope. Good stuff.

Upon looking at the box I was a bit perplexed. It has no identifying features anywhere to be found. No model numbers, specs, nada. When I opened the box, I found what I though to be good enough packaging, but not great. I doubt anything would happen to the scope in transit, but something a bit more sturdy than ultra-soft foam would be good. The scope does, however, come in a dandy little velvet bag (probably fake velvet, but nice nonetheless) which is reminiscent of a Crown Royal bag, only black. Nice touch. The flip-up caps don't seem as bad as some might say, but then again only time will tell on that. It has 2 separate sun shades which is nice, though I'm not sure it's necessary.

The instructions are the worst I've seen for a riflescope. Even the Osprey scope I bought from the scheister at the local gun show came with better instructions. What came with the Falcon is a photocopied sheet that is sometimes barely legible, and it provides no real instructions. It assumes that one already is well versed in setting up and mounting a scope which, at this price range, is a dangerous gamble. They need a real instruction booklet, and they need it yesterday. What is provided gave me no insights into the scope or how it works. For instance, rather than explaining <span style="font-style: italic">how</span> to use the reticle focus, it simply says that it must be done with no hints as to how to go about doing it. Poor.

The construction of the unit seems very good. Again, only time and some use will tell, but I feel that this scope is going to be a great coyote scope on my DPMS Sweet 16 coyote rig. The glass seems nice, and the reticle is very similar to my NF MLR reticle which uses hashes rather than dots, and has .5 mil hashes to help with ranging. Good stuff. Knobs seems nie, and clicks seems acceptable, though only getting down and using it will let me know for sure.

Though the scope does have SF, it has no identifying marks to help with range. It has infinity, but no other markings to speak of. Though most simply turn focus until the picture is right, not having any indication of where we are is a bit disappointing and seems odd that it is missing, especially since the "directions" state that there should be something there. The only thing I can imagine is that they don't have any on scopes to be shipped to the US because MIL/MIL scopes would have meters on the SF knob, and we don't think in metric here. Not likely, though possible.

So far the scope looks very nice, though I'm not optimistic that I would get any CS from Falcon in the event I needed it.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

Just got a 5-25x Falcon today.

My SF has two non-parallel lines that run around the knob. When the lines are close together, the parallax is set for close distances. When the lines are far apart, the parallax is set for far distances.

I think yours is most likely the same.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got a 5-25x Falcon today.

My SF has two non-parallel lines that run around the knob. When the lines are close together, the parallax is set for close distances. When the lines are far apart, the parallax is set for far distances.

I think yours is most likely the same. </div></div>

It is, but that is no way, shape or form should be considered as a replacement for actual numbers. IMO, it's a very poor design decision.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

I have two of the Falcon 5-25's in Mil/Mil. Most of my observations are just like yours. Scope looks and feels solid and sturdy. Glass is decent. I didn't get any black velvet bags, just plastic. The clicks are ok at best. Audible but mushy after the actual "click" sound. Flip caps on mine are shitty at best. I only got one sunshade with mine. It's a 3" that seems fine. I think for the price it's a good buy. I agree that if you ever had a problem with it getting Falcon to fix it might be a full time job.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

Where would you rank the glass quality in comparison to similar competing scopes?
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

I have a 5x25 on the way. I hope it shows up tommorrow.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cegorach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where would you rank the glass quality in comparison to similar competing scopes? </div></div>

How do you expect this to be answered? Of all the items on the list of importance for rating a rifle scope, there is none more subjective than the "glass." Every time I see this question asked, or the "glass" referred to, I cringe. To someone that doesn't know any better... a millett, or leupold, or even a barska... has "awesome glass" in it.

Suppose he says, "the glass is terrible." Then do you discount this scope as a loser? Or suppose he said "the glass is amazing." Do you then run out and purchase it as soon as you get time?

I'm just really curious as to what goes through someone's head when they get to talking/thinking about the "glass" that I hear so much talk about.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

I would say it has the same glass quality as a Mark 4. Have owned both. Can't compare to anything better than that. Nightforce easily has a good 40% on the falcon in just glass quality alone.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

I am sorry, my question was very vague. I am interested in the clarity/sharpness of the picture across the magnification range.

The Falcon Menace provides a lot of very attractive features for its price point, things that are not offered until you begin looking at optics that are one or two price brackets above of it. Unfortunately this leads me to believe that one or more elements of the scope have been built down to the low price. Since the things that can be measured objectively like build quality, tracking, durability, and to some degree how tactile the knobs are, all seem to be at least decent, this leaves the highly subjective area of “glass” as the possible area where the said corners were cut. I would love to be less skeptical, but most of the time the old adage of “you get what you pay for” holds true.

If he does say it is crap then it will certainly color my view to a small degree, but I would be extremely foolish to base my decision on only one source of information. Nearly every scope manufacturer out there will have a sub standard product reach the consumer at one time or another. That is why I like to rely on an average whenever possible, and he is just one more point of data
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

Glass quality certainly is subjective, but I don't think that should stop us from asking for opinion..or giving them. Everyone should take it with a grain of salt - although there are some more objective tests I've seen using charts etc.

I can usually tell a big difference when I start looking at targets, especially if they have detail on them, at long distances.

I have a Falcon Menace (which is currently attached to a DPMS .308, both of which I'll be selling so I can buy a JP). Also have a Mark 4, Zeiss, IOR, Vortex, even two Milletts (selling my TRS-1 too). All are examples of scopes what are good values for the money, except the Mark 4. It's not a bad scope, it works just fine, but I think it's overpriced.

Having said that, the glass is definitely better than the Falcon. But, I'd rate the Zeiss, IOR and even the Vortex Viper as better glass.

Of course, just my opinion.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

I have been told that the reason they are using two lines on the side focus instead of numbers is simply because all too often, the numbers weren't lining up to the range shooting. Meaning, finding focus on a target at 100 yards didn't always mean the side focus was set to 100 yards based on the marks, and this has a tendency to really bother the anal retentive types. You can always play with the scope on the range and set your own marks, if it makes you feel better.

One fix for the mushy turrets is to remove some of the excess grease, or replace it all together. It will help improve the feel, but not make them 100% precise. Honestly, this has always dumbfounded me. I have seen more than a few cheap BSA and Tasco scopes that had absolutely great turrets. They had positive, crisp clicks, were audible, and you could feel each one. Not only that, but they lined up with the hash marks. Why Falcon can't seem to accomplish this is beyond me, as it doesn't seem to be an expensive proposition.

Now, critiquing the glass is rather subjective. However, I call BS on the claims that this glass is as good as a Mark 4. I've owned one Menace, shot with another, and can say that the glass didn't even approach that found even in a Vari-X III. Others who have tried mine on the range shared my sentiment, the glass is good, but far from great. I have found, in my eyes, it to be slightly below the glass found in a Burris Fullfield II or Nikon Buckmasters.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jason280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been told that the reason they are using two lines on the side focus instead of numbers is simply because all too often, the numbers weren't lining up to the range shooting. Meaning, finding focus on a target at 100 yards didn't always mean the side focus was set to 100 yards based on the marks, and this has a tendency to really bother the anal retentive types. You can always play with the scope on the range and set your own marks, if it makes you feel better.
</div></div>

Hints would help greatly. I can see their rationalization, but it still doesn't cut muster IMO.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

Funny thing is, I think Leupold is doing this on some of their scopes as well. I know the VX-III 6.5-20LR I had was the same way...
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

i been thinking about getting the same exact scope as my first scope for long range shooting. Is there any other scopes in this price range that others can recommend with similiar features?
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

Parallax Markings:

Take a silver sharpie with you to the range. Take the time to adjust out the parrallax at 100, 200 300, ect, ect. Then use the sharpie to mark it.

Then the numbers will have an actual value for the user.
Pre-marked scopes seem to be a guess at best.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

When I turn the focus I'm looking through the scope to see if the image is sharp or not. If there were marks on the side focus, I wouldn't see them as my attention is on the image in the scope.
But that's just me...
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

Agreed with the lack of distance marking being a non-issue. Put a single dot, double dot, etc where you want them.

My 5.5-25x50 has very similar glass quality (to me) as my Mk4.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

Enough with the packaging, and instructions.....Hows it shoot, track, the important stuff!
grin.gif
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdgray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Enough with the packaging, and instructions.....Hows it shoot, track, the important stuff!
grin.gif
</div></div>

When I get to the range with it, I'll let you know.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your thread sucks with no pictures so I hijacked one from a frog

Falcon%20Menace%20Metric6.jpg
</div></div>

Sucky perhaps, but at least it doesn't have inaccurate pictures.

That is NOT how my SF knob looks. I'll post pics when I get a chance later on tonight.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

I WANT that SF knob!

Since you can loosen and re-set it just like the W & E, I would then be able to choose which distance is most important and "zero" it there. I'd then supplement the other marks with my own if they are off enough to matter.

My last range trip, checking zeros, I was all over the 600 paper until I finally remembered the parallax was still on 100. Turns out there wasn't quite as much mirage as I thought.

I set my parallax marks for the first run by checking for reticle movement. After that, I want marks so I can just dial it in after ranging and just before running elevation.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MTETM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Parallax Markings:

Take a silver sharpie with you to the range. Take the time to adjust out the parrallax at 100, 200 300, ect, ect. Then use the sharpie to mark it.

Then the numbers will have an actual value for the user.
Pre-marked scopes seem to be a guess at best. </div></div>

What he said!
(notice he also said "adjust out the parallax", not focus.....)
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

Falcon's are great long range scopes for the money. They've got all the features to get you going, and decent glass.

In that price range I'm not aware of anything that has all the features that is as good. I like it much better than my Millett.

The Vortex scopes are a fantastic value.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

After my first Falcon purchase, (5-25x50 ml16) I had it side by side with my Leupold vx-iii 6.5-20x50. After playing with both I ended up selling my Leupold and getting another Falcon 5-25x50 ml16. I feel the falcons have every bit as good of glass as the VX-III series Leupold. Not to take anything away from Leupold, I just like the fact that Falcon has a product at about half the price, and oh yea FFP and MIL/MIL adjustments.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

Regarding the knobs... there are 2 or 3 styles floating around to my knowledge. The original knobs (as pictured above have a single allen on the top of the knobs and marked ranges on the SF. Generation II retained the single allen but removed distances on SF due to apparent customer dissatisfaction if not perfect. Gen III has 3 set screws on the sides per knob and has generally received the best reviews in terms of feel and markings "lining up". But this should be user upgradable if you can find replacements.

For reference I own a 4-14 MIL with ML16 reticule and GEN II knobs. Extremely please with the great value and included features. I'll own this until a top tier scope is financially feasable and I may keep for another profect. They definitely seem to hold their value.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How do you expect this to be answered? Of all the items on the list of importance for rating a rifle scope, there is none more subjective than the "glass." Every time I see this question asked, or the "glass" referred to, I cringe. To someone that doesn't know any better... a millett, or leupold, or even a barska... has "awesome glass" in it.
Suppose he says, "the glass is terrible." Then do you discount this scope as a loser? Or suppose he said "the glass is amazing." Do you then run out and purchase it as soon as you get time?
I'm just really curious as to what goes through someone's head when they get to talking/thinking about the "glass" that I hear so much talk about. </div></div>
What’s going through someone’s head when they ask you about glass? <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">They want your opinion</span></span>. You're scope shopping, and trying to get the best bang for your buck, so you're another 'Hider who is out gathering information. That information is valuable; dollars and cents valuable. I'm always grateful when someone shares their assessment of a product, even if some portions of that assessment are subjective. If you get the same observation regarding a subjective characteristic from 6 or 7 people, that subjective characteristic is quickly becoming an objective observation. So, don't discount your assessment of the glass as useless because you think it's subjective. Some things I’ve heard over the years that I’d like to know about include, but aren’t limited to:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]The image has a certain tint to it.[*]One scope has a constant shadow along the edge of the image. [*]This scope can’t resolve any better than a coke bottle bottom.[*]This scope resolves details better than several other scopes. [*]This scope gave me an extra “X” minutes at the end/beginning of hunting light compared to another type scope. [*]This scope has terrible flare control if the sun gets too close to a direct angle into the objective. [/list]
So, you see, your observations about the glass, while subjective, are as valid as anyone else’s, and as such are useful to the rest of us. I also understand that you may not wish to share your observations about a part, or the whole scope. I won't raise a stink about it, but on the other hand, I greatly appreciate any review(s) you're willing to share.


 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

I got a 5-25 back in the fall and hunted with it all winter. I also have a 3-17 USO. Not apples to apples but I am very happy with the FM. Don't know that I would mount it on a 338 LM as their durability isn't proven yet, but I can honestly say it was money well spent.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

I just got a 4-14 today. Ordered it from Robert at rwsnyder. Took all of 4 days including the day that I ordered it (late afternoon). Thanks Robert!
A pleasant surprise, it came with two sunshades.
i have not mounted it yet, but just looking through it, I have come to a couple of conclusions.

1. It is VERY unforgiving of your head position.

2. It is absolutely useless for ranging at lower powers, you can not even discern the individual mil-dots at 4x. They do not become usable until you hit 7 to 8 power.

I am going to with hold further judgement until I have it mounted and can at least get it outside.

So far, I don't see any particularly redeeming value that would lead me to believe it is superior to my TRS-1 in any way, except that it is mil/mil.
 
Re: "Just opened the box" 1st look Falcon Menace 4-14x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got a 4-14 today. Ordered it from Robert at rwsnyder. Took all of 4 days including the day that I ordered it (late afternoon). Thanks Robert!
A pleasant surprise, it came with two sunshades.
i have not mounted it yet, but just looking through it, I have come to a couple of conclusions.

1. It is VERY unforgiving of your head position.

2. It is absolutely useless for ranging at lower powers, you can not even discern the individual mil-dots at 4x. They do not become usable until you hit 7 to 8 power.

I am going to with hold further judgement until I have it mounted and can at least get it outside.

So far, I don't see any particularly redeeming value that would lead me to believe it is superior to my TRS-1 in any way, except that it is mil/mil. </div></div>


I absolutely agree with this minus the TRS-1 as I do not have one.

Mine has been very repeatable. I've been thinking of removing the knobs to clean out the grease.

#1 is a very valid point. I would imagine this would cause a problem if you were doing any type of timed shooting. My shooting is all for fun at the range. I'm sure someone that can really drive a rifle could make do with it, but I think this is an issue with the scope.

Compared to my Sightmark, this thing wins with glass hands down. Compared to a NF scope I saw once, it wasn't nearly there.

My .02, you get what you pay for but this thing is a helluva deal!

Also, a big +1 for RWSynder. I had the same personalized email from the man. Good stuff.