Just scanned Gunbroker to see how crazy it was.

Rlandry

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500 CCI small pistol primers for $305. WOW, this has become even more insane. For that price I might even consider turning loose a couple of cases.
This insanity seems to have no end in sight, and it's probably going to get worse before it gets better. These prices almost justify another safe just to store primers.
 
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BG94591

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If I had the ability to ship primers, I might jump into this as well. Prices on Gunbroker are crazy.
 
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OldSalty2

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    22LR at 0.50+ per round tells me all i need to know...

    Wonder how many people will say fk it and "cash out"?

    Is that part of the plan? All supply and demand boys...nothing else to see here.
     

    Rlandry

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    I'm betting that the majority of these guys aren't permitted to ship hazmat, but are bootlegging using UPS or FED Ex ground or paying a third party to ship for them. I ship common carrier all the time. You put in the package contents info and the clerk doesn't even ask, let alone open the box to verify contents. I never ship anything illegal, but it would not be hard to do.
     

    BG94591

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    I'm betting that the majority of these guys aren't permitted to ship hazmat, but are bootlegging using UPS or FED Ex ground or paying a third party to ship for them. I ship common carrier all the time. You put in the package contents info and the clerk doesn't even ask, let alone open the box to verify contents. I never ship anything illegal, but it would not be hard to do.
    I don’t disagree, but thats a dance with a three letter agency I don’t want to have if something were to go wrong.
     

    FjallJager

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    I have a couple military Rod and Gun club sources of primers and powder. Just not the powder I need.

    I am sitting on almost a 1000 mixed primers, about half large magnum, half 1/4 large match, and 1/4 SRP.

    Even bullets are now scarce where I live though. Pretty bad when you think $80 a box for 100 is a good deal for match 308 bullets.
     

    OldSalty2

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    Since when was it not 😂

    At 0.06 per round for 22LR, shooting sports were widely available to a large swath of people.

    At 0.50, not so much. Remember only a small fraction of shooters buy 3k (minus glass) 22LR rifle setups. Most are weekend plinkers or food on the table types.

    Pricing people out does extreme damage to 2A.
     

    OldSalty2

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    Anyone remember when a real brick of 22 was like $12 at Wally World?

    Just this past summer wally was sadly one of my goto for federal automatch.

    Was often found for under 15 bucks for 325 rounds. That same box today, if you can find it? 145.00 on ammoseek....just checked...
     

    TxWelder35

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    Just this past summer wally was sadly one of my goto for federal automatch.

    Was often found for under 15 bucks for 325 rounds. That same box today, if you can find it? 145.00 on ammoseek....just checked...
    Fuck really? I’ve got some to sell then 😂
     
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    OldSalty2

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    Fuck really? I’ve got some to sell then 😂

    Yep, and probably lots of people will do the same. And perhaps get out of the game completely. 22LR is especially intriguing to me, since it is by FAR the most commonly shot round in the US (i assume, I have no stats).

    Plus, storing relatively larger quantities is easy, dont take up much space.

    Think about it. 20k rounds of 22LR worth 10k bucks? Crazy!
     

    LuvDog

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    22LR at 0.50+ per round tells me all i need to know...

    Wonder how many people will say fk it and "cash out"?

    Is that part of the plan? All supply and demand boys...nothing else to see here.


    What? I didn't realize my son and I blew through about $150 of ammo yesterday.
     

    Rlandry

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    Just this past summer wally was sadly one of my goto for federal automatch.

    Was often found for under 15 bucks for 325 rounds. That same box today, if you can find it? 145.00 on ammoseek....just checked...
    A short while back there ws a guy on here selling Automatch for $30 or $35 a carton. I started to buy some but I backed off thinking that was even to much. Guess I should have picked up a couple of boxes.
     

    Rlandry

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    I don’t disagree, but thats a dance with a three letter agency I don’t want to have if something were to go wrong.
    Agreed, and it would only take a nosey shipping clerk to unwrap a package to see what was rattling and it all goes south.
     
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    W54/XM-388

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    500 CCI small pistol primers for $305. WOW, this has become even more insane. For that price I might even consider turning loose a couple of cases.
    This insanity seems to have no end in sight, and it's probably going to get worse before it gets better. These prices almost justify another safe just to store primers.

    I would bet by the end of the year, you wouldn't sell what you have for that price...
     

    davsco

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    i think (hope) most of those overpaying are just buying to get into the game. when they have whatever minimum stock they need they they'll stop buying and prices will recede (some). that said, if you're patient, midway, midsouth, etc have all had recent primer and powder drops at mostly pre-covid pricing. just need to be tied to your computer as they go FAST.
     
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    TxWelder35

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    i think (hope) most of those overpaying are just buying to get into the game. when they have whatever minimum stock they need they they'll stop buying and prices will recede (some). that said, if you're patient, midway, midsouth, etc have all had recent primer and powder drops at mostly pre-covid pricing. just need to be tied to your computer as they go FAST.
    The 1k minimums suck but better than nothing. $45 for the product, $40 to ship. Lol
     

    hollowoutadime

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    I have a couple military Rod and Gun club sources of primers and powder. Just not the powder I need.

    I am sitting on almost a 1000 mixed primers, about half large magnum, half 1/4 large match, and 1/4 SRP.

    Even bullets are now scarce where I live though. Pretty bad when you think $80 a box for 100 is a good deal for match 308 bullets.
    1000 mixed primers? Go be poor somewhere else.
     

    BullGear

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    22LR at 0.50+ per round tells me all i need to know...

    Wonder how many people will say fk it and "cash out"?

    Is that part of the plan? All supply and demand boys...nothing else to see here.
    I'm not cashing out on ammo, but I do have a surplus of firearms and mags. I've got 1 AR15 listed now and will be posting other things in the near future.
     

    Kiba

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    I'm betting that the majority of these guys aren't permitted to ship hazmat, but are bootlegging using UPS or FED Ex ground or paying a third party to ship for them. I ship common carrier all the time. You put in the package contents info and the clerk doesn't even ask, let alone open the box to verify contents. I never ship anything illegal, but it would not be hard to do.

    A guy at work recently bought some primers from gunbroker, they arrived in a USPS small flat rate box. :oops:

    At least a few of these people shipping primers without hazmat permits and paperwork are going to get caught, and I don't even want to think about the penalties that the DOT is going to rain down on them...
     

    lariat

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    $0.50 a round for 22LR? Ammoseek has tons of it available for $0.28 - $0.38 per round. Not cheap, but it sure isn't a half dollar a pill.

    Now if you want new 5.56, you are in a world of hurt - it will be above $1 per round by the end of next week. 9mm is doing a hard charge for the $0.070 - 0.080 range, and it looks like it will go higher.
     
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    Phil1010

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    I'm not cashing out on ammo, but I do have a surplus of firearms and mags. I've got 1 AR15 listed now and will be posting other things in the near future.
    I've been doing the same. Saving for a carrier and plates.
     

    atvman400

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    Here's a question even if you stocked up do you stop shooting? Cause don't you have to replace them at some point?
    No you don't stop shooting. Hopefully you have enough stocked up to weather out the storm. I have always said that it can't stay crazy forever but with Joe in office it could be crazy for at least 4 more years. You are correct in that personal stocks are going to be low by than.
     

    BG94591

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    I’m finding 205M, 210M CCI 450’s and others at CA prices, which is surprisingly significantly less than Gunbroker prices.
     

    deersniper

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    22LR at 0.50+ per round tells me all i need to know...

    Wonder how many people will say fk it and "cash out"?

    Is that part of the plan? All supply and demand boys...nothing else to see here.
    What kind of 22?

    I have a little bit of those federal value packs. And by a little bit I mean a lot lol
     

    Woodlanddude

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    So I want to know WTF is wrong with the ammunition manufacturers. With the amount of guns being purchased in the last 12 years, they have seemingly done jack and shit to put on more production lines. We have known this was coming since the Obama shortage. Not many of us have had the ability to stock up on unlimited supplies of ammo with house and car payments, medical bills, and kids to support. The credit card can only take so big of a hit and has for many of us to keep a little something for a rainy day. How can you not respond to an epic shortage in manufacturing capability to take advantage of the $$$$$ you can return when its pretty obvious its the new norm? This has hurt the ability of the 2nd amendment to defend us due to a seemingly intentional refusal to provide the supply. Ammo was never quite "cheap" during Trump's tenure even. Buyable yes, but cheap hasn't been here for a dozen years. Running full tilt on your previously existing manufacturing equipment may give you a killer profit and is, but from my POV it appears that there is a LOT more that could have been done.
     

    lariat

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    So I want to know WTF is wrong with the ammunition manufacturers. With the amount of guns being purchased in the last 12 years, they have seemingly done jack and shit to put on more production lines. We have known this was coming since the Obama shortage. Not many of us have had the ability to stock up on unlimited supplies of ammo with house and car payments, medical bills, and kids to support. The credit card can only take so big of a hit and has for many of us to keep a little something for a rainy day. How can you not respond to an epic shortage in manufacturing capability to take advantage of the $$$$$ you can return when its pretty obvious its the new norm? This has hurt the ability of the 2nd amendment to defend us due to a seemingly intentional refusal to provide the supply. Ammo was never quite "cheap" during Trump's tenure even. Buyable yes, but cheap hasn't been here for a dozen years. Running full tilt on your previously existing manufacturing equipment may give you a killer profit and is, but from my POV it appears that there is a LOT more that could have been done.
    You ask a good question but it is complicated for sure. The Timeline for return on investment of that equipment varies from company to company depending on their existing debt load, market penetration, current operating costs and the anticipated increase in operating costs associated with a new production line. This stuff isn’t cheap, and when you add in publicly traded firms that need stock prices to be high you get a company that squeezes everything out of current production that they can.

    @THEIS, do you still have that spreadsheet of what the estimates are for an ammo production line?

    I was involved with another company that actually built the progressive press to make bullets. They built that thing for a customer from raw steel. It was a work of ingenuity and art. It was NOT cheap and the timeline to pay for the production line by the customer was long - well beyond a presidential term. And that was for ONE bullet for ONE caliber. It’s not like that kind of specialized press is common, and the dies do wear out, so you add that ongoing cost. Add to this the increasing raw materials costs, EPA regs (lead, etc) and marketing (stupidly high) and you have a situation where a bank will have to swallow hard and then be constantly up in your shit, if they finance it at all.

    Business in the ammo Industry can be very tough, and it’s not easy to get into because of the costs. Where do you go to get the engineers with the experience? You either steal them from another company or raise them up from within, and it really has to be both if you are going to go fast. Fast means more money.

    Remington’s problems didn’t help, at a minimum it’s created a perception problem that hinders others who want to expand, either through self doubt or outside entities with the needed resources finding the willingness to help (risk appetite).

    It’s not nefarious or laziness. It’s business in an industry that is always hated by a number of politicians who are constantly submitting legislation against it at the state and federal level.
     
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    WaltHer

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    Woody, check your facts/take your poors problems elsewhere. Apparently you were asleep from 2016-2020. If you thought the good times were going forever you are a "poor" study of history. Yes, these conditions suck. However, your "surprised face" is equally surprising.



     

    TxWelder35

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    So I want to know WTF is wrong with the ammunition manufacturers. With the amount of guns being purchased in the last 12 years, they have seemingly done jack and shit to put on more production lines. We have known this was coming since the Obama shortage. Not many of us have had the ability to stock up on unlimited supplies of ammo with house and car payments, medical bills, and kids to support. The credit card can only take so big of a hit and has for many of us to keep a little something for a rainy day. How can you not respond to an epic shortage in manufacturing capability to take advantage of the $$$$$ you can return when its pretty obvious its the new norm? This has hurt the ability of the 2nd amendment to defend us due to a seemingly intentional refusal to provide the supply. Ammo was never quite "cheap" during Trump's tenure even. Buyable yes, but cheap hasn't been here for a dozen years. Running full tilt on your previously existing manufacturing equipment may give you a killer profit and is, but from my POV it appears that there is a LOT more that could have been done.
    Ammo was the cheapest that I’ve ever seen in a decade under Trump. Ands even with inflation. 223 was $260/1k and 9mm was $160/1k. Not sure how much cheaper you are expecting that that. Could hardly even load for that cheap. You were saving a couple pennies per round.

    there was a big glut of guns and ammo available 2017-2019 hence all the sales and cheap prices.

    it costs 10s of millions to set up new manufacturing right now and would take 18-24 mo before the facility would be online. That’s also assuming that you can get enough raw materials to keep 2 factories running at 100%

    what would the break even be to purchase a new factory? Eventually this frenzy will fade just like it also had unless this is the true end. And if it is the end than I’d be glad I didn’t invest in a giant factory.

    you just have no concept of what it would truly take to add manufacturing, what it would cost to break even, and wtf you are going to do with a spare ammo factory when this frenzy dies down and you have to put your products on sale to get them to move.
     

    lariat

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    Ammo was the cheapest that I’ve ever seen in a decade under Trump. Ands even with inflation. 223 was $260/1k and 9mm was $160/1k. Not sure how much cheaper you are expecting that that. Could hardly even load for that cheap. You were saving a couple pennies per round.

    there was a big glut of guns and ammo available 2017-2019 hence all the sales and cheap prices.

    it costs 10s of millions to set up new manufacturing right now and would take 18-24 mo before the facility would be online. That’s also assuming that you can get enough raw materials to keep 2 factories running at 100%

    what would the break even be to purchase a new factory? Eventually this frenzy will fade just like it also had unless this is the true end. And if it is the end than I’d be glad I didn’t invest in a giant factory.

    you just have no concept of what it would truly take to add manufacturing, what it would cost to break even, and wtf you are going to do with a spare ammo factory when this frenzy dies down and you have to put your products on sale to get them to move.
    The last two paragraphs identify the nightmare that causes the industry to wake up at 2 am and pray.
     

    OldSalty2

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    I think its fair to question strategy of the ammo manufacturing industry in this case. And while the, "its always been like this" argument and the variables involving investment, logistics, implementarion, and execution, etc are valid...

    So is not reinvesting to capitalize on market demand fluctuations, and that door swings both ways. In many markets not preparing to meet demand will result in you not staying in business when there is demand that cannot be sufficiently met, as consumers will seek alternatives.

    Think of a telco that couldnt meet the demand of new or current subscribers, what would happen? Their customers would jump ship to someone who could.

    Now ammo aint telco, but the same principles apply, if there was more competitors in the market...that is. Now back to federal and them doing what they can.