Both of these pistols have things about them I like but I really don't like the trigger and gritty feel of the Kahr slide. The Kahr is made in the USA though. Those of you that have the XDS, are you still happy with your pistol? How is the recoil on the Springfield? Which of these two would be a better carry pistol?
Sidearms & Scatterguns Kahr PM9 vs Springfield XDS 45
- Thread starter Nosler243Shooter
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Both pistols are great (I've shot both), but its almost more of a caliber question. I like the idea of a small .45acp, but bullet construction has come along way, and the 9mm with an extra 1 or 2 rounds that you can carry in the same size pistol is a huge benefit. I own two Kahr's an MK-40 elite, and a PM-40. I love them both, but carry the PM-40 almost all the time. I would go with the Kahr.
Good Luck
Good Luck
have both but tend to carry the PM9 more smaller lighter and with +P+ its gonna l;eave a mark
Nothing compares to 45 cal when it comes to CCW, period.
I like both of them although I prefer the Kahr just a little more. After shooting a bunch of guns for carry, talking with a lot of people and thinking through the pros and cons I could never seem to get around the trigger of the Kahr although I really liked the size. I ended up with the S&W M&P9c. I keep looking for the perfect carry that I like enough to shoot but until I find it the M&P 9c is the best fit for me.
Thanks for the replies. It is going to be a tough decision. Is the Kahr PM9 really that much much better than the less expensive CM9? A guy from work just bought a XDS he said I could shoot his sometime before I bought one to make sure that is what I wanted. I don't know of anyone that has a PM9. My dealer has a CM9 in stock. It concerns me about those sights on the XDS. Has anyone had problems with the fiber optic rod falling out? Any more information would be appreciated.
Nothing like actually shooting them. Thats how I learned that I really did not like the Kahr trigger and that I generally prefered the feel of the M&P 9c as compared to its counterparts. Dont get me wrong...there are alot of things I liked about the Kahrs (even that little 380). I just happened to really like the M&P. Seemed like the best balance of carrying something I felt confident shooting and shooting something I felt I could carry.
I dont know much about the sights but I have not heard of any problems. I hear a lot of folks on this forum that have the Kahrs and really like them. Perhaps some of those folks can provide better direct use feedback for you. Assuming I cant change your mind about going with some flavor of the S&W M&P's. :^)
I dont know much about the sights but I have not heard of any problems. I hear a lot of folks on this forum that have the Kahrs and really like them. Perhaps some of those folks can provide better direct use feedback for you. Assuming I cant change your mind about going with some flavor of the S&W M&P's. :^)
I don't know if you are open to the idea, but I believe the XDs 9mm has arrived. Weighs 1 oz more than the XDs 45 due to smaller bore diameter and higher cap magazine (7 w/ flush fit mag). I have handled the XDs 45 a bit and I'm impressed. Have yet to shoot it though. 
Difference between the PM9 and the CM9 is: PM9 has the Lothar Walther match grade polygonal rifled barrel, extra extended magazine (CM9 just has 1 flush mag), CM has a plastic pinned front sight, and the slide isn't cleaned up as much, and doesn't have logo laser engraved on the slide.
I agree the trigger on the Kahr takes some getting used to, but I want a gun that is ready to go all the time when seconds count. The Kahr trigger has a physical block to keep the firing pin from hitting the primer until it is pulled ( it doesn't have a safety). This is why it is a bit long, but there is no way that when I pull this gun that it won't be ready. Just my way of looking at it.
I agree the trigger on the Kahr takes some getting used to, but I want a gun that is ready to go all the time when seconds count. The Kahr trigger has a physical block to keep the firing pin from hitting the primer until it is pulled ( it doesn't have a safety). This is why it is a bit long, but there is no way that when I pull this gun that it won't be ready. Just my way of looking at it.
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It doesn't take long with the Kahr to get used to the long trigger pull. The polygon barrel on the P series is really accurate in my experience. It's a solid pistol.
PM9 is my daily summer carry gun in 9mm. Trigger actually much better than most subcompact pistols - and with good +p ammo and a few extra shots; I'll take it. I can put accurate rounds on target very quickly -
something no 1 has mentioned is the pkhar in .45. its my every day gun when i am not serious. (them its colt Lt wt commander &3mags)
i have had 2 khars in 9. good guns but for not much more space u can carry 6/1 rds of sgdhp-230 gr. feel better about your life.
goods
1. small only a tad larger than the 9mm
2. uses GOOD 1911 mags also.
3 very accurate at 50 ft 3-4" under stress.
4. very reliable
bads
looooong trigger pull
get use to it and u are a winner
i have owned all the above ccw guns and this has been my favorite for 2 years.
nice to be here
jumper66
p.s. makes a nice b/u =to my 1911 with same mags.
i have had 2 khars in 9. good guns but for not much more space u can carry 6/1 rds of sgdhp-230 gr. feel better about your life.
goods
1. small only a tad larger than the 9mm
2. uses GOOD 1911 mags also.
3 very accurate at 50 ft 3-4" under stress.
4. very reliable
bads
looooong trigger pull
get use to it and u are a winner
i have owned all the above ccw guns and this has been my favorite for 2 years.
nice to be here
jumper66
p.s. makes a nice b/u =to my 1911 with same mags.
Right now I am leaning more towards the XDS. There is just something about this gun that I like a lot. My dealer has a bi tone in stock. Since I bought my 1911 I have grown to like the 45ACP much more than I used to. The XDS is a little bigger but I don't think it is enough to matter. I'll just have to wait and see what I can find out tomorrow.
I've got a PM9 and I love it. It's tiny, accurate, surprisingly easy to shoot, and 6+1 or 7+1 rounds of ammo in such a small package is nice. As has been mentioned the trigger is long, but mine is very smooth and not very heavy. For the gun's intended use I don't have any problems with the trigger.
A few thoughts:
I've owned an XD45 and XD40sc. Solid pistols but I disliked them due to high bore center and vague trigger letoff. I moved onto Glocks.
The XDS is *not* your regular XD, its trigger is all glock, and it wears an external extractor like a Glock. I still had my doubts, but recently had the oppurtunity to shoot one, and honeslty I was impressed by it. The trigger is excellent. I mean EXCELLENT (if you like a two stage and a crisp letoff)! I have a Glock 36, so I have that data point to compare the XDS to in terms of recoil/shootability/feel. The XDS recoil is honestly nicer/easier/smoother than the G36.
If the form factor, cartridge and capacity of the XDS is appropriate for you, the XDS is a winner.
That said, I'm a Kahr PM9 fanboy. I've been through a lot of CPL pistols trying to find my "holy grail". The only pistol that's lasted me more than a year before buying something new has been my Kahr. At this point, I've been carrying it (nearly exclusively) for over 3 years, and nothing on the market provides something better (for my tastes) that I'm inclined to buy with the exception of the Rohrbaugh R9 - but the pricetag is just too much to swallow.
What I love about the Kahr is the combination of trigger (yes I said trigger), form factor, capacity and "firepower". I love the trigger on this pistol. It is the ideal pocket pistol trigger. Even though I carry the pistol in a holster inside my pocket, I still really subscribe to the long but smooth DAO trigger for this style of carry. The PM9 is legitimately small enough it can be carried inside a holster, inside the front pocket of a pair of Mens' jeans. The XDS can't claim that same feat, which ultimately disqualifies it from my consideration. The whole pistol is pretty well melted/dehorned and is great in the pocket. The capacity of 6+1 with Winchester PDX1 124gr +p provides entirely adequate firepower. I've chono'd these and they go over 1220fps from my pistol, and that provides an honest to goodness 400lbft+ and somehow, the pistol shoots them smoothly and while a little snappy, it is entirely shootable. I've also fired the Kimber Solo9, the Keltec PF9 and maybe a few others...none of them shoot as smoothly (or even close) as the Kahr. No idea why, but it's true.
People complain about the long DAO trigger and I'm not sure why. No, it's not a 1911 trigger, but it's really functional and easy to master. I often take my PM9 to shoot plate racks and I'm generally able to clean the rack @ the standard distance (55ft?) in about 6 seconds starting from a low ready. The trigger is smooth and has *no* stacking whatsoever.
The downside to the PM9 however, are that it's got a couple of quirks in regard to putting cartridges in battery. PM9s want you to use the slidestop to release the slide and let is slam home. Many will jam if you just pull back on the slide a little and release. Most will jam if you put a magazine into a pistol with a closed slide, and then try to cycle the slide. The owners manual mentions this, and I've found it to be true with mine. If I use the slidestop only, the pistol has never malfunctioned.
I've owned an XD45 and XD40sc. Solid pistols but I disliked them due to high bore center and vague trigger letoff. I moved onto Glocks.
The XDS is *not* your regular XD, its trigger is all glock, and it wears an external extractor like a Glock. I still had my doubts, but recently had the oppurtunity to shoot one, and honeslty I was impressed by it. The trigger is excellent. I mean EXCELLENT (if you like a two stage and a crisp letoff)! I have a Glock 36, so I have that data point to compare the XDS to in terms of recoil/shootability/feel. The XDS recoil is honestly nicer/easier/smoother than the G36.
If the form factor, cartridge and capacity of the XDS is appropriate for you, the XDS is a winner.
That said, I'm a Kahr PM9 fanboy. I've been through a lot of CPL pistols trying to find my "holy grail". The only pistol that's lasted me more than a year before buying something new has been my Kahr. At this point, I've been carrying it (nearly exclusively) for over 3 years, and nothing on the market provides something better (for my tastes) that I'm inclined to buy with the exception of the Rohrbaugh R9 - but the pricetag is just too much to swallow.
What I love about the Kahr is the combination of trigger (yes I said trigger), form factor, capacity and "firepower". I love the trigger on this pistol. It is the ideal pocket pistol trigger. Even though I carry the pistol in a holster inside my pocket, I still really subscribe to the long but smooth DAO trigger for this style of carry. The PM9 is legitimately small enough it can be carried inside a holster, inside the front pocket of a pair of Mens' jeans. The XDS can't claim that same feat, which ultimately disqualifies it from my consideration. The whole pistol is pretty well melted/dehorned and is great in the pocket. The capacity of 6+1 with Winchester PDX1 124gr +p provides entirely adequate firepower. I've chono'd these and they go over 1220fps from my pistol, and that provides an honest to goodness 400lbft+ and somehow, the pistol shoots them smoothly and while a little snappy, it is entirely shootable. I've also fired the Kimber Solo9, the Keltec PF9 and maybe a few others...none of them shoot as smoothly (or even close) as the Kahr. No idea why, but it's true.
People complain about the long DAO trigger and I'm not sure why. No, it's not a 1911 trigger, but it's really functional and easy to master. I often take my PM9 to shoot plate racks and I'm generally able to clean the rack @ the standard distance (55ft?) in about 6 seconds starting from a low ready. The trigger is smooth and has *no* stacking whatsoever.
The downside to the PM9 however, are that it's got a couple of quirks in regard to putting cartridges in battery. PM9s want you to use the slidestop to release the slide and let is slam home. Many will jam if you just pull back on the slide a little and release. Most will jam if you put a magazine into a pistol with a closed slide, and then try to cycle the slide. The owners manual mentions this, and I've found it to be true with mine. If I use the slidestop only, the pistol has never malfunctioned.
I agree 100%, I like the trigger for what it is intended. Velocity is almost always higher with this pistol than others with the same barrel length, and recoil is completly acceptable even with my PM40.This pistol shoots as good as anything even close to its size. However, when someone shoots it for the first time, they almost always comment on the long trigger pull.
XDS for sure!! The trigger on the Kahr is not bad but the XDS trigger is just better. Also, the XDS takes the same night sights as the Sig 239 (don't remember where I got this information but Sig sights work). I have Trijicon HDs on my XDS and it is an absolute tack driver out to 50yards and super fast at any range. Get the bitone and change the sights. I have no problem with the Kahr but after shooting both extensively I bought the XDS.
Also, FWIW Heinie sights mounted just tad lower and were more precise. The front sight was thinner but the hds are just soo easy to pick up in any light condition.
I went to the gun store this morning and he didn't have a Kahr Pm9 but he still had the CM9. He also had a new XDS bitone and a used black XDS. I compared the CM9 with the XDS to see if I wanted to order the PM9. I really liked the XDS more overall. I thought the used XDS had a slightly better trigger than the bitone but they were very close. The used one looked like it had not been shot much. I asked my dealer about it and he said the guy bought it from him but only kept it about a week and a half. It looked brand new. The only way I knew it had been shot was it had a little powder residue on top of the slide around the front sight. Finally the owner said he would let me have the used one for 479.00 plus tax. I took it. I just finished putting 100 rounds of American Eagle 230gr FMJ through it and it is awesome. The recoil was nothing like I thought it would be. I am about 140 pounds and have small hands and I thought it was very manageable. I figure if I can shoot it comfortably then most people probably can too.
Great! I'm glad that you did what worked best for you. Surely nothing wrong with your choice, especially since you like it and how it shoots. That means you're likely to carry it, as it should be.
That seems like a decent deal too.
That seems like a decent deal too.
I own both and am glad I do. I feel comfortable with either, when I don't think my EDC G31 is appropriate.
Nice find on the barely used XDs! I've got a few matches with mine now as a BUG (backup gun) and really like it. I find that its size is a lot more comfortable for carry than my P220 Carry and the odds of me needing it are slim to none thus I'd rather go for comfort while carrying than capacity. Accuracy with this pistol is no issue. I've been able to keep most rounds out of a mag on a 10" square steel plate at 60 yards when firing slowly.
~Brett
~Brett
100% Agree!!! I love shooting the PM9 and I'm shocked how accurate it is.
I went to the gun store this morning and he didn't have a Kahr Pm9 but he still had the CM9. He also had a new XDS bitone and a used black XDS. I compared the CM9 with the XDS to see if I wanted to order the PM9. I really liked the XDS more overall. I thought the used XDS had a slightly better trigger than the bitone but they were very close. The used one looked like it had not been shot much. I asked my dealer about it and he said the guy bought it from him but only kept it about a week and a half. It looked brand new. The only way I knew it had been shot was it had a little powder residue on top of the slide around the front sight. Finally the owner said he would let me have the used one for 479.00 plus tax. I took it. I just finished putting 100 rounds of American Eagle 230gr FMJ through it and it is awesome. The recoil was nothing like I thought it would be. I am about 140 pounds and have small hands and I thought it was very manageable. I figure if I can shoot it comfortably then most people probably can too.
I like my XDS as well. I put some Talon Grips on it the rubber ones. Talongrips.com $14.95 super easy to apply and they work great and keep the aggressive grip of the XDS tamed down. Check them out, you will like them.
My wife carries a Kahr P9 which I have put quite few rounds through. I carry an XDS 45 as my on duty backup weapon. I have put hundreds of rounds through the XDS and never had a malfunction.
I find I am far more accurate with the XDS because of it's superior sights and far better trigger. The Kahr has an extremely long trigger reset with which I found it very difficult to work. I am nearly as fast with the XDS as my full size 1911. With the Kahr I am far less competent because of the trigger.
Overall quality on XDS feels superior.
I recommend purchasing the XDS and 3 7 round magazines. I carry it in the excellent Crossbreed mini tuck that I bought in left and right side carry. I really like this gun with a 5 round mag in the gun and 2 7 rounders for reloads.
Springfield will be releasing an XDS 9MM in the next few months which will be identical except for caliber and capacity. If recoil or ammo cost is a concern you should look at that or the M&P 9MM Shield.
Regards
224Man
I find I am far more accurate with the XDS because of it's superior sights and far better trigger. The Kahr has an extremely long trigger reset with which I found it very difficult to work. I am nearly as fast with the XDS as my full size 1911. With the Kahr I am far less competent because of the trigger.
Overall quality on XDS feels superior.
I recommend purchasing the XDS and 3 7 round magazines. I carry it in the excellent Crossbreed mini tuck that I bought in left and right side carry. I really like this gun with a 5 round mag in the gun and 2 7 rounders for reloads.
Springfield will be releasing an XDS 9MM in the next few months which will be identical except for caliber and capacity. If recoil or ammo cost is a concern you should look at that or the M&P 9MM Shield.
Regards
224Man
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How does the size of the XDS9 compare to the PM9? Is it pocket-able?
I love my XDS for carry. I love it even more since I found the Kangaroo carry. It fits nicely under my dress shirts and is unseen unless wearing a white shirt. Put my thirst on, kangaroo on, dress shirt and tie and hi the road. Very easy to get to and out of the way. I always prefer a 45 over anything else. The double tap Barnes 160 gr work really good, impressive in a short barrel.
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