Knights Armament

The DFC

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I'd pass, the SR-16 is really nothing special. Functionality wise the newer Mod 2 Mlok version is better and you can find them for $1700 brand new.


Or if you want 18" of Krieger goodness


 

S197

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KAC and LMT. I have read that LMT has helped with KAC production. Now KAC’s price tag is higher but both of them are battle proven.

KAC is great but you could get more for your money with LMT.
 
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MontanaMan

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I've got 3 KAC's..................simply great weapons, just oil 'em & clean 'em; can't speak to any personal use with LMT, but I never hear anything bad.

If you want KAC in about any configuration, get a hold of Kelley's Enterprises in Key West..................he's hooked in tight & gets a lot of special stuff too. His prices are as good as any unless you find a unique deal of some kind.

His price on the 16" upper quoted above is $1,467, for example.

MM
 

The DFC

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If you're considering LMT-that opens up a whole new world of easily swap-able barrels/calibers with same upper. Their MARS lowers are true ambi-bolt catch and all.
 

hitman

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Knights denies this now. At least that is what one of their reps said that LMT does not make anything for them. From what I understand they did at one point and maybe still do and it is hush hush. Either way LMT is awesome. I have an 11.5 a 16" and a .308 and they are all great. My 11.5" shot a few 1- 1 1/4" groups just a few weeks ago with an Aimpoint and 3x mag. Plus you can swap the barrel in about one minute.
 

GUNNER10

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Are they worth it, to some, The SR16's are pretty cool but its still a mod 1, outside of aesthetics not sure why anybody would pay a premium a mod 1 over a mod 2.
 

aslrookie

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I have a KAC lower with an LMT 11.5" upper. My buddy has a KAC mod 2 upper in 11.5" as well. I honestly prefer the LMT upper over the KAC due to barrel swap if needed and monolithic upper. Which in my opinion the monolithic upper is awesome for SBR's because rail space is less of a concern for zeroed optics/equipment and placement.

Having the KAC lower and LMT upper is the best of both worlds to me. I prefer the KAC 2-stage triggers over Geissele now.
 

LeadZeke

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LMT > KAC as long as you get the LMT Enhanced BCG. The only advantage KAC has over a traditional AR15 is the bolt. The LMT E-BCG accomplishes basically the same thing without a proprietary barrel extension. LMT is also easier to get parts for. That said KAC's run great, but if I had a choice the 11.5in LMT in Mlok with their E-BCG would be it.
 

Drago6

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KAC is like Arcteryx

High quality gear without a doubt, but you're paying 65% for the hardware and 35% for the brand name. And no I'm not a hater, I own plenty of KAC stuff but am realistic about it. Some of the hardcore fanboys will tell you with a straight face that their $5k carbine can punch through Abrams armor at half a mile underwater and then bake you cookies afterwards.
 

redneckbmxer24

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    You can’t buy what KAC has anywhere else.
    Other than being a high quality rifle the only thing special that KAC brings to the table is the E3 bolt. LMT’s have a lot more going for them and are just as high quality as KAC. Their enhanced bolt is every bit as good, their enhanced carrier is awesome, their true monolithic receiver with QC barrel is the shit, fully ambi MARS lowers, angled gas port and straight gas tube.
     

    RyanScott

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    The mod 2 gas system also. The LMT comes close but you trade into a barrel that isn’t hammered, has a drilled pin, short gas system and weighs more.
     

    The DFC

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    LMTs are all on the heavy side no doubt. The New Zealand Ref rifle has a mid-length gas system and is a pretty smooth shooter but not KAC smooth. As far as LMT barrels-I have 308 ss, 308 cl, 6.5cm ss, and 556 cl-all shooters. My 6.5cm and 308 ss are sub moa and the 556 is new but looks very promising. I have not spent a lot of time with my 308 cl so no data there. That being said my KAC LPR with Krieger barrel shoots laser beams.
     
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    redneckbmxer24

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    The mod 2 gas system also. The LMT comes close but you trade into a barrel that isn’t hammered, has a drilled pin, short gas system and weighs more.
    LMT’s barrels are as good, maybe better than any hammer forged barrels out there. Their SS barrels are 5R cut rifled barrels. KAC, is the same. Barrel is not a downgrade. Gas system length depends on the barrel but most are not what I’d call short, some are shorter than ideal.

    The MLC/MLR receivers are very light. About the only complaint I’d make is that on the MLC/MLR you have to remove Mlok accessories to swap barrels unless you just have a couple sporadically and sometimes it will slip by. Still not a big deal as a barrel change isn’t something you’re going to be doing under stress or on a clock anyway. The MRP and LM8 versions don’t suffer this issue at all.
     
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    The DFC

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    LMTs are all on the heavy side no doubt. The New Zealand Ref rifle has a mid-length gas system and is a pretty smooth shooter but not KAC smooth. As far as LMT barrels-I have 308 ss, 308 cl, 6.5cm ss, and 556 cl-all shooters. My 6.5cm and 308 ss are sub moa and the 556 is new but looks very promising. I have not spent a lot of time with my 308 cl so no data there. That being said my KAC LPR with Krieger barrel shoots laser beams.

    I forgot to add I have a 16" KAC sr15 with cl barrel that I'm just finding what it likes but it looks to be a 1moa-ish shooter as well.
     

    aslrookie

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    LMT’s barrels are as good, maybe better than any hammer forged barrels out there. Their SS barrels are 5R cut rifled barrels. KAC, is the same. Barrel is not a downgrade. Gas system length depends on the barrel but most are not what I’d call short, some are shorter than ideal.

    The MLC/MLR receivers are very light. About the only complaint I’d make is that on the MLC/MLR you have to remove Mlok accessories to swap barrels unless you just have a couple sporadically and sometimes it will slip by. Still not a big deal as a barrel change isn’t something you’re going to be doing under stress or on a clock anyway. The MRP and LM8 versions don’t suffer this issue at all.
    I just dealt with this last night. I swapped muzzle devices to use a smaller/lighter suppressor, and I had to remove my mlok attachments to get the barrel out. Not the end of the world, but the MCX was definitely the easiest switch barrel carbine I’ve used. Unless you count an M240B lol
     

    Tonsofguns

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    kac shoot smoother than the lmt, but it's tuned to shoot mil spec ammo. You will not be able to shoot steel case.

    both rifles are great. I do like how smooth the kac shoots, and the lightweight. However the proprietary parts suck. With my lmt, when i need a barrel change, i can do it in five minutes and find barrels for $300. With the kac, you need to send it in to them, and they'll charge you $800 plus for a barrel change.

    Hence why my lmt will always be the prime go to rifle.
     
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    The DFC

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    kac shoot smoother than the lmt, but it's tuned to shoot mil spec ammo. You will not be able to shoot steel case.

    both rifles are great. I do like how smooth the kac shoots, and the lightweight. However the proprietary parts suck. With my lmt, when i need a barrel change, i can do it in five minutes and find barrels for $300. With the kac, you need to send it in to them, and they'll charge you $800 plus for a barrel change.

    Hence why my lmt will always be the prime go to rifle.

    I agree with all of this. I just got a New Zealand ref rifle and it's actually a pretty smooth shooter-which I attribute to the weight and mid-length gas system. Not KAC smooth though o_O
     
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    Docsherm

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    kac shoot smoother than the lmt, but it's tuned to shoot mil spec ammo. You will not be able to shoot steel case.

    both rifles are great. I do like how smooth the kac shoots, and the lightweight. However the proprietary parts suck. With my lmt, when i need a barrel change, i can do it in five minutes and find barrels for $300. With the kac, you need to send it in to them, and they'll charge you $800 plus for a barrel change.

    Hence why my lmt will always be the prime go to rifle.

    Winner winner chicken dinner.

    This is where KAC falles apart. I have been issed both and used them both deployed.

    LMT is a serious Battle Weapon. End of story.
     

    RyanScott

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    KAC is several generations past what you deployed with. One of these days I’ll have to visit with mine and we can go shooting.
     
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    cherokeefan03

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    I have an 11.5 SR16, love it. Paid about 1425 I think for it, maybe 13 something I can't exactly recall.
    The URX3.1 is probably one of the best rails ever made imo, and the URX4 on the SR15's is also excellent.
    The SR16 has the MOD 1 gas system, as opposed to the newer MOD2 on the SR15s. Still very soft shooting, much more so than my .070 ported 10.3 MK18. But I would say that the SR15 MOD2 is still the superior upper because of the MOD2 gas system.

    The E3 bolt is realistically not a problem imo, as it will likely never break even on heavy auto firing schedules (I have never heard of an E3 bolt breaking, neither has any of my KAC owning friends, but obviously it hypothetically could after an absurd amount of rounds). Rebarreling can be done at any certified KAC armorer last time I checked, but even so, if you are a person who feels the need to do everything yourself that proprietary design may be an issue for you. If you get the Sandcutter carrier it is designed with channels to help break up and shift away dust, but the LMT carrier (as well as any other carrier) also works.

    We can get into the discussion of whether "if you pay KAC prices, you can afford a new barrel", etc is true, but everyone will have their own opinion and situation regarding that.

    KAC in my experience also has great customer service, their reps that are on FB and ARFCOM and have always been helpful and knowledgeable, and they have a record of improvement and development of new tech that is attractive to me.
     
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    MontanaMan

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    Will it shoot shit ammo?
    i've got 3 of 'em & they all do, at least they do with Wolf steel case shit...................don't use much of it in them, but it does work.

    Never tried any of the other really shit stuff like TULA though.

    MM
     

    rth1800

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    I really like KAC lowers and the uppers are fine except they are not as accurate as some of the aftermarket barrels. Even the LPR is only fair. All of my AR stuff started out as KAC.
     

    nn8734

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    Everyone has their own opinions on these things but my SR25 is by far the smoothest shooting large frame AR I have ever owned and would never go back to anything else.

    It’s an older EMR w/URX and a chrome lined barrel (Obermeyer, i believe). holds 1 MOA or a little better consistently to 300beyond that I don’t shoot for groups, just to hit the target once or twice.

    Handles all the different brands of ammo I’ve put through it with no issues.

    Will likely pick up an SR15 SBR in the spring.

    Also a huge fan of their suppressors.
     

    Count VonFuhrman

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    I have an 11.5 SR16, love it. Paid about 1425 I think for it, maybe 13 something I can't exactly recall.
    The URX3.1 is probably one of the best rails ever made imo, and the URX4 on the SR15's is also excellent.
    The SR16 has the MOD 1 gas system, as opposed to the newer MOD2 on the SR15s. Still very soft shooting, much more so than my .070 ported 10.3 MK18. But I would say that the SR15 MOD2 is still the superior upper because of the MOD2 gas system.

    The E3 bolt is realistically not a problem imo, as it will likely never break even on heavy auto firing schedules (I have never heard of an E3 bolt breaking, neither has any of my KAC owning friends, but obviously it hypothetically could after an absurd amount of rounds). Rebarreling can be done at any certified KAC armorer last time I checked, but even so, if you are a person who feels the need to do everything yourself that proprietary design may be an issue for you. If you get the Sandcutter carrier it is designed with channels to help break up and shift away dust, but the LMT carrier (as well as any other carrier) also works.

    We can get into the discussion of whether "if you pay KAC prices, you can afford a new barrel", etc is true, but everyone will have their own opinion and situation regarding that.

    KAC in my experience also has great customer service, their reps that are on FB and ARFCOM and have always been helpful and knowledgeable, and they have a record of improvement and development of new tech that is attractive to me.
    What brand lower? Do you have the Kac 2 stage trigger?
     

    Count VonFuhrman

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    Is the KAC 2 stage trigger worth the extra money? Or the Super Semi-Automatic Enhanced (SSA-E) Trigger? Or others for SR16?