Lapua new brass runout

[bosulli]

Or how to prevent it when getting the neck dents out of new 6.5x47 Lapua brass.

Runout before running the expander ball thru is .001-.003. After .005 to .008.

Using Redding S FL with 287 bushing. Lubed the cases with One Shot, the necks (inside and out with Imperial). Lubed the bushing and inside the die with Imperial. I leave the gap so the bushing can move around per instructions. Not even bumping the neck.

Thanks for your knowledge.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

You have now found out what bushing dies are for (hint:low runout).

 

[bosulli]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

I don't consider going from .001 to .008 low run out.

 

[gixxerpilot750]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

If you're just trying to iron out any dents in the case necks try an expander mandrel from either K&M or Sinclair, then run the cases through the bushing die with the expander ball removed. Dragging the expander ball back through your neck sized cases is what is likely causing the runout issues.

Check out DesertFrog's reloading procedure here:

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloadingfroggy.html

 

[Rob01]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

WAY TOO MUCH LUBE! No need to lube inside the die or bushing. You using the gold Ti Nitride bushing? If not then you should be. Worth the little extra cash as they last. When I FL/Neck size using the Ti bushing all I use is One Shot. When just neck sizing I don't use any lube. Try sizing without all the lube and see if that takes care of the problem.

Also how much is it sizing down? if over about .005 then that might also be the problem.

And lastly, do like Gixxer said if you are rounding out the necks then use the expander and then size without expander and bushing if the expander opens up the neck too much.

 

[mdmp5]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WAY TOO MUCH LUBE! No need to lube inside the die or bushing. You using the gold Ti Nitride bushing? If not then you should be. Worth the little extra cash as they last. When I FL/Neck size using the Ti bushing all I use is One Shot. When just neck sizing I don't use any lube. Try sizing without all the lube and see if that takes care of the problem.

Also how much is it sizing down? if over about .005 then that might also be the problem.

And lastly, do like Gixxer said if you are rounding out the necks then use the expander and then size without expander and bushing if the expander opens up the neck too much.</div></div>

Do as rob says. Use the expander to fix the necks, then for the final product, take out the expander ball. If your necks are severely dented, take a pair of needle nose pliers, and insert them into the case mouth while they are closed to bend the mouth open. If you try to run a severely dented case thru the die with the ball in there, you will destroy the mouth altogether.

 

[vman]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

+1 on imperial

Use the stuff sparingly... i wear gloves whilst i do my work, but i find i lightly rub my finger onto the wax and that lasts me about 4 to 5 cases.

 

[bosulli]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

Sizing down question - The new brass has a .288 OD. I am using the .287. Soon as I am happy with the bushing size, I will get the Ti.

I put a light coat of Imperial inside, b\c the die is new and I cleaned the factory protection lube off with brake cleaner. Usally dont lube the inside, but a stuck case will ruin my day. I dont fully trust the One Shot.

Read Froggy's post. I do have a the Sinclair expander mandrel in route. Although I dont need to decap for the first firing, i will take off the expander ball. And keep it off. I have had problems in the past with expander ball rods that were not straight. So I will wait till I get the expander manderals, and I believe not using the expander ball will solve my issue. BTW, the dents are small.

Thanks, great help. I'm back on track.

 

[bosulli]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

Oh yeah. The glove application method sounds good. Sometimes I use the Imperial for body sizing lube, but use a piece of cloth. Gloves sound better.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bosulli</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't consider going from .001 to .008 low run out. </div></div>

You missed the point. Bushing dies are for sizing without an expander ball.

 

[bosulli]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

I guess I did, but I get it now.

Thanks.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

I would suggest using a K&M expander mandrel to get the dents out, then size as normal, new brass from any manufature will improve after firing

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

I use graphite to lube the inside of the necks.

 

[bosulli]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

Graphite? Sometimes the powder sticks to the neck lube. Maybe graphite would stop that.

How to you apply, and where do you get it.

 

[Deisel]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

I use the following from Sinclair http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=33148/Product/Imperial_Application_Media You can use this to add graphite to the beads as needed http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=32854/Product/Imperial_Dry_Neck_Lube

 

[gixxerpilot750]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

If you look at the froggy article on loading he claims to use "Froggy's Neck Lube inside the necks, applied with a Q-tip" to prevent copper shaving and galling of the bullet. In all the searching that I've done, the closest I've been able to get to determining the recipe is that its powdered graphite (lock lubricant) suspended in an alcohol carrier (Heet gas antifreeze). I've also used the beads (I used really fine lead shot) as described above with good results.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gixxerpilot750</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In all the searching that I've done, the closest I've been able to get to determining the recipe is that its powdered graphite (lock lubricant) suspended in an alcohol carrier (Heet gas antifreeze). </div></div>

Neolube.
http://www.newmantools.com/chemicals/neolube1pds.htm


I noted in another thread how I'd spent the money on a set of neck sizing dies and that had solved my runout problem. I agree, the expander ball thingy is bad for concentricity.

 

[gyr]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

I am not using the expander ball in the redding FL dies (6,5-284), but am tempted to buy a sinclair expander die and mandrel...

IN 308, I do use the ball ut RO is not too bad...although worse than in the 6,5-284

does it make sense to buy and use the expander die/mandrels?? I dont turn necks, just want to make sure I keep RO at a minimum..Thanks

 

[fish30114]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

Here is a tip that will most likely let you keep your expander ball in play. Loosen the lock nut on the expander decapper assembly. Raise the ram on your press until you feel the expander enter the case mouth on a FIRED case--this is easier with a friend by the way--then while holding the ram with the expander centered in the case mouth, tighten down the spindle lock nut. Doing this in concert with sanding down all my expanders allows me to maintain and often even improve runout on my cases--fire formed is obviously very low runout!!

I take every expander I have, pull it from the die, size one piece of brass, and then walk over to my work bench. I take the expander assembly, chuck it up in my drill, and spin the expander in some emory cloth until I can force it into the case with VERY little pressure. this helps me feel comfortable that the case mouth has been opened to some degree of consistency, and I know that I haven't sized a case mouth down with an out of round mouth that I wouldn't know about if I sized it without an expander--going to a mandrel die is in the level of benchresting reloading techniques IMO, which if that is what you are after, look at an Arbor press and Wilson arbor dies.

Good luck to you!

 

[BK7saum]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fish301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a tip that will most likely let you keep your expander ball in play. Loosen the lock nut on the expander decapper assembly. Raise the ram on your press until you feel the expander enter the case mouth on a FIRED case--this is easier with a friend by the way--then while holding the ram with the expander centered in the case mouth, tighten down the spindle lock nut. Doing this in concert with sanding down all my expanders allows me to maintain and often even improve runout on my cases--fire formed is obviously very low runout!!

I take every expander I have, pull it from the die, size one piece of brass, and then walk over to my work bench. I take the expander assembly, chuck it up in my drill, and spin the expander in some emory cloth until I can force it into the case with VERY little pressure. this helps me feel comfortable that the case mouth has been opened to some degree of consistency, and I know that I haven't sized a case mouth down with an out of round mouth that I wouldn't know about if I sized it without an expander--going to a mandrel die is in the level of benchresting reloading techniques IMO, which if that is what you are after, look at an Arbor press and Wilson arbor dies.

Good luck to you! </div></div>

What is the neck tension on your loaded rounds? Sometimes if my brass necks are a little thick, the internal diameter has to be opened up quite a bit by the expander ball. Just curious how much the bullet has to expand the case neck.

 

[fish30114]

Re: Lapua new brass runout

BLK7, the neck tension varies a bit from die to die of course, and also how thick the various brass is. It obviously will be a little less than if you didn't have an expander at all, but it has never been an issue, to me it's about consistency. Having said that, I don't want an excessive amount of tension--so to answer very specifically, I have not measured the brass on every rifle I reload for, some are just hunting rig dedicated, and they shoot damn good, so on some of those rigs, I haven't actually checked. On the 18 or 20 that I have checked, I would say it averagtes 3 to 3.5 thou of tension. I have one rifle that runs around 4.5 thousand, and I think that is because i am using factory ammo brass, that is nickel plated, and of course it could simply be a chamber that is near max spec, and a die that is closer to min.

Good shooting!