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Large change in accuracy with barrel temp

Morgan321

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 27, 2013
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I have noticed a change in accuracy based on shooting in the sun or shade so Today I shot two different loads both in the sun and in the shade while evaluating differences in brass. Loads are all identical except for two different lots of brass. All components from the same containers, same shooting position, same everything except for the sun. Lc67 and lc62 are two different years of m72 brass. Gun is $400 rem 700 in a nice stock. The shade groups are 6 rounds, sun groups are 4.

In the sun the barrel is too hot to touch for more than a fraction of a second. In the shade I can hold my hand on the barrel for 1-2 seconds only.

Apart from not shooting in the sun what can I do to keep the accuracy up in the sun? I assume is due to barrel temperature? How hot is too hot for accuracy?

I'm likely sending this action to gap to be trued and a new barrel put on. Things I should consider?
 
6 rounds back to back are enough to cause groups to open up with a thin barrel whether sitting in hot sun or not.


--Daniel
 
I shot two rounds(one each load), waited a few minutes, repeat. All 20 rounds in about 30 minutes. Not very fast...

I've thought about painting the barrel, would probably help in the sun? The matte black finish on the barrel seems like nearly a perfect black body to absorb the sun!
 
What profile barrel is on the rifle? If it is more of a hunting profile, heat will play more games with your point of aim vs point of impact. A heavy barrel or varmint profile will normally have less shot drift with heat.

Matt
 
How long is your round chambered before firing? If you're chambering the round more than a handful of seconds before pulling the trigger, the hot chamber is increasing the pressure of the round.
 
Factory sporter weight barrel, it is to be expected.
Most factory varmint weight barrels will do it also.
GAP is an excellent choice as is Hart, RWS, SAC, Scout Supply Co, Louisiana Precision Rifles and several others.

My suggestion is to call around and see who can deliver what you want when you want it.
 
Pencil barrel, rounds only in gun a few seconds before firing.

Recommendations for a good gunsmith in the Nashville/Huntsville area? Gap says 2-3 months just to true it and put a barrel on. Would prefer somebody who stocks barrels so I don't have to wait on a barrel first, then wait on the install.
 
What powder? Less temperature sensitive powders such as 8208xbr and H-1000, etc. may help here.
 
Pencil barrel, rounds only in gun a few seconds before firing.

Recommendations for a good gunsmith in the Nashville/Huntsville area? Gap says 2-3 months just to true it and put a barrel on. Would prefer somebody who stocks barrels so I don't have to wait on a barrel first, then wait on the install.

Hart makes a fine barrel and they will true your action and install a barrel for 700 dollars (includes cost of barrel). Hart Rifle Barrels

Robert Snyder has an excellent reputation and has very fair prices. I have only dealt with him buying accessories. Helluva nice guy. Services | RW Snyder Gunsmithing

Contact Bugholes here: Southern Precision Rifles
He has several barrels in stock that will meet your needs and according to many folks here on the hide, builds a heck of a rifle. He is also a member here on the hide.
 
Recommendations for a good gunsmith in the Nashville/Huntsville area? Gap says 2-3 months just to true it and put a barrel on. Would prefer somebody who stocks barrels so I don't have to wait on a barrel first, then wait on the install.

Mark Gordon of Short Action Customs stocks barrels, and his work is second to none.
 
[MENTION=85106]Morgan321[/MENTION] I posted this a few years back but you may find value in it...

Barrel temperature and its effects on 100y accuracy.

I receive the task from one in my Montana hunting party to develop a load for his 13 year old son to use hunting mule deer. The rifle is a Remington 700 ADL chambered in 223 with the light or sporter weight barrel profile (all factory and a 1 in 12 twist rifling). First thing I did was clean it so I would have place to start. While cleaning I discovered that this rifle has two barrel pads manufactured into the plastic molded stock located right at the end of the barrel channel in the 5 and 7 o’clock position. “So the barrel is not a free floater, thinks I, this ought to be interesting.”

We had decided to use the Barnes TSX 53 grain bullet so we would not have any fear of bullet blow ups if jr were to hit bone when taking his shot. I followed Barnes recommendations and had the bullets set to jump .05” into the lands. I worked up few test loads and went shooting.

What I found when shooting was interesting. This coming from a guy who’s rifles are all factory varmint contours or heavier. The first shot hit paper so I fired the first group before making any adjustments to the 3-9 power millet scope. I then made the scope adjustment and fired a second group. WOW an inch higher than the two inches I had adjusted for. I double checked the scope. Yup 1/4 moa indicated on the capped turret dial.

Anyway, I decided to move along and shoot the rest of my test loads. In which I found two loads worth exploring for the next trip; I am using IMR 8208 and just like I had thought, the better performing loads were right at the top end of Hodgdon’s loading data. Back to the loading room I go... and loaded my next set, this time choosing the two better loads. I loaded these the same but I seated the bullet .03” off the lands and a second set .07” off the lands. This time I brought some varmint loads to shoot that I had made for another rifle so I could see what was going on with this rifle/scope combo without expending expensive Barnes bullets.

When I got back to my range I fired a group of five of the varmint loads. From the resulting pattern I knew I did not have a scope problem but something else was afoot... shots 1-3 were all inside of a inch of each other in a slight horizontal climb and shots 4 and 5 were a full 1.5” higher also in a horizontal pattern. All shots were fired inside of a 90 seconds. “So” thinks I, “I bet I know what’s going on now.” More on that in a bit. I fired my test samples and was rewarded with a good grouping with the two loads seated .03” off the lands. Both were about 1” So I went back to the loading bench and loaded up some more of those this time just to zero the scope and get a crono reading. But before I did this I just had to satisfy my curiosity.

I disassembled the rifle and dropped the action into a BDL stock that had a Varmint barrel channel and heading back to my shooting area. The varmint barrel channel allowed the barrel to free float. Using the varmint ammo I fired a series of 5 shots over the same 90 seconds and before you think it... yes they all hit in a sporadic but circular pattern. So, I had been thinking that the barrel pads where causing the climb and I believe I proved this theory correct. But just not yet... My initial thought was as the barrel expanded from heat it increased the pressure on the pads and causing the impact to climb. Not to be proved wrong I put the original stock back on the action and torque it down to the setting I had used the first time when cleaning the rifle and waited for the new day to dawn.

Day two.

I headed back to my shooting area and started my new test. This time equipped with my super scientific barrel temperature monitoring device, a meat thermometer. Not the best I am sure and yes I will clean it off before using it on steaks. But it worked for what I wanted to do.

As a hunter we all know that the first shot is the most critical. A second may be required but the first one should be all that is needed. The air temp was 74 degrees when I started testing. I fired my first shot, stuck the thermometer down the muzzle and watched the temperature climb slowly four degrees and then start falling. I recorded the peak temp, and velocity (as I was shooting over the crono this time)and waited… and waited… and waited some more. After six minutes I was down to 76 degrees and I figured this was close enough. Fired round two and did the same as on the pervious shot. This went on for about 40 minutes for 6 shots or 2 groups of three. Guess what... Zero impact climb on target for each group.

So at 74 degrees it takes about 6 minutes with a 223 equipped with a 24” sporter barrel, .65” dia muzzle to get almost back to ambient air temperature. Hope you have enjoyed reading this as much as I have testing it.
 
Appreciate the recommendations, but none are in northern Alabama or central Tennessee...
 
Lowlight is likely very right. Many quality barrels are heat-treated to relieve internal stressors (stress relieved). Cheaper barrels are generally not heat treated. You'll normally notice a degradation in accuracy when an economy barrel is heat-stressed. Better barrels WILL show some forms of heat stress, but you could fry an egg on some of the best, without a tremendous change in impact/accuracy. There is also a school of thought that FREEZING to extremely low temperatures will also stress-relieve a barrel. You might consider this as an option. I have had rimfire barrels stress relieved. I'm now thinking those barrels never got hot enough to make a difference. But centerfire? Heck yes.

Cryogenic Stress Relief, Steel & Metal Stress Relieving | NitroFreeze Cryogenic Services & Solutions, Worcester, Massachusetts
 
Appreciate the recommendations, but none are in northern Alabama or central Tennessee...
Rifles ship quite easily, but I understand if you are wanting to drive it there and shake hands with the gunsmith. You can try Predator Custom Shop in Knoxville, last time I was there a few years back they had a large bin with Rock Creek barrels ready to go: Predator Custom Shop
 
I would look at Predator Custom Shop in Knoxville. They bedded an action for me and installed some bottom metal. Their work was great and their turn around time was incredible (like about a week or so).


Ha! Just read the above post.