Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

[GBMaryland]

Ok,

So I ordered Larry Wilis' belted magnum resizing die, and started to check a BUNCH of 375 H&H Mag brass that I have.

(Before I knew what I was doing, I had reloaded some of this stuff at least 6 times, probably more...)

The great thing about the die is that the non-collet side allows you to check the area just above the belt.

My question:

I know that the brass has not been sorted by me. So I'm assuming that a good rule of thumb would be that if the brass doesn't fit in the belt checking side [really doesn't fit], then I should throw it away?

I have some pieces that need a little collet sizing, and some that will not fit in the belt checking side at all...

What I've noticed with the 300 Win Mag is that I really don't have to trim the like batches of brass, whereas with the 375 H&H you need to do it almost every time.

Thoughts?

GB

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

Talk to your dentist and ask if he has a long probe that he isn't using. You can put a slight hook on the end and use it for checking the brass for seperation cracks. The wire on the probe is actually smaller than a paper clip. My dentist and I are on first name basis and he gave me one of them. I have seen similar probes at flea markets for a dollar or two.

I don't care whose dies you use. You need to be checking for case head seperation cracks after a few loadings. Especially with a magnum case.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

Victor is right on. The reason it stretches so much is the taper. An improved case will stretch less. The .300 Winny has an abrupt shoulder (almost). The H&H is much more gentle. Set your sizing die to size to the shoulder and not the belt. You'll get more life from your brass. JMHO

 

[justpete]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

Ditto on the check for casehead separation but if the cases don't fit the die's gage they're not goners if there isn't any separation, it's what the die's for. Most of the 300WinMag and 375H&H I've reloaded didn't pass the gage test (first fire new brass) but the die fixed the problem although some took a couple of passes and some required extra special harsh language.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

Thanks guys... Yeah the 375 is much more sensitive than the 300wm.

I like the dental pick idea alot... So I'll orer a few of those... (I gather those would be dental scalers?)

what I really like about that willis magnum belt sizer is the ability to easily check above the belt for size BEFORE you use the collet.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

My dentist called it a long probe. The end wire is smaller than a paper clip but is still springy. I used a needle nose pliers and gently put a hook on the very end 3/16" to 1/4". It still fits in 220 Russian cases.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

On a related note:

I've got this REALLY old RCBS full length resizing die for the 375 H&H.

I decided to run all of the really used brass through it.

Interestingly, it actually resized the brass to within about 1/2 mm of the belt!

I then took them all and ran them through the Willis belt checker, and they're fine.

I typically never FL resize the 375 H&H brass, I just neck ize and reload...

Next step is to get the dental tool and check for most worn of the cases...

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

Ok guys,
I picked up a dental tool and checked a few hundred rounds of 375 brass.

Assuming that I'm looking for any drag between the bottom of the case the area just above the belt...

...it's ALL bad.

Some is worse that others, but all of it has pretty decent ridges between the belt and the area just above the belt.

[They've been reloaded between 4 and 6 times... and some are REALLY bad...]

So, is it that simple?

GB

 

[doc76251]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GBMaryland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok guys,

So, is it that simple?

GB </div></div>

YUP! Just make sure you know the difference between drag/roughness and a trench. .375 should be big enough to see down w/ a light, do a feel vs visual comparison so you can decide how much you are willing to risk.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

If you want to really learn about it, try cleaning the inside in a tumber. Then shine a light in it and have a look. Or better yet. If you know someone with a borescope, you can do a visual inspection then do the thing with the dental probe. I have done both. I found a lot by using the borescope. It helped me determine the difference between a rough spot and a crack starting. If you can move the probe up and down in the case at the "suspect point" and it tries to grab like it's in a hole, that's a crack starting. By visually inspecting cases from several different lots or groups of cases you can get a better picture in your mind of what's going on.

If you have a Dremel tool and you find a few cases that feel different and you can't see what's going on inside, cut open a few cases with a cuttoff wheel in the Dremel and you can see it better.

I am not speaking ill of anyone's dies. Especially Mr. Willis. I have not used one of his dies and have no experience with them. But don't expect any kind of miracles from any maker of dies. I don't really care if you use Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Lyman's or Redding dies. Or someone I didn't mention. Always do an inspection of ALL brass before you load it. Every time you pick up a piece of brass for any operation you should give that particular peice a look over. At least look for the very evident discrepencies like splitting case mouths, seperating case heads or splits or cracks anywhere in a case. Who knows? You may save your eyesight or maybe your life.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

I've got to say that it's really interesting the huge difference between the 375H&H and the 300WM, even though they are based on the same cartridge.

I've got Norma 300WM that I've reloaded 4 times with NO hint of a ridge / or rough spots.

The 375.... alot more metal movement.

Thanks all.

I will cut a few of them in half and see what the different drag feelings with the tool are like visually.

 

[Innovative]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

GB .......

Victor is right about checking the inside of your cases. In dealing directly with hundreds of shooters, I've found that a great number of them don't measure headspace <span style="text-decoration: underline">at the shoulder</span> like they should. This is especially important with belted magnum calibers, because excessive headspace is the number <span style="font-weight: bold">ONE</span> cause of headspace separation.

That's why I developed the Digital Headspace Gauge. Over the years, many shooters have sent me sample cases to diagnose a variety of problems, and almost every problem was resolved by using this tool. There's a good article about it in the October issue of the Handloader, or you can read about it on our website.

- Innovative

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Larry Willis Collet / 375 H&H Brass Sorting

Ok,

I think I'm missing something here...

I'm failing to understand why you'd need to measure headspace at all?

At least for the 375... My standard practice has always been to trim, neck size, and reload.

Since that leaves the brass perfectly fitted to my rifle's chamber, there really shouldn't be any shot of problem.

My interest in the collet is only sizing above the belt, and more so, performing an external evaluation of the area above the belt. (Which is one of the functions of the die set...)

The 375 H&H has such serious metal flow that trimimg is always require with hot loads. Still, I've been able to get up to 6 reloads, and after performing the case check the other day... That Ive only had three blowouts is flipping amazing!

(blowouts = leaks above the belt without complete separation)

I'm just going to throw the cases away and start over... Clearly marking the batches like I do my 300wm.

 

[Innovative]

GBMaryland . . . .

The reason you need to measure headspace is to eliminate the case head separations you described. With belted magnum cases "headspace" is set by the barrel installer, and it is done. That's why I use the Digital Headspace Gauge to measure chamber clearance at the smaller end of tapered cases (at the shoulder).

Measuring the clearance (at the shoulder) shows how much clearance YOUR loads have in YOUR particular chamber. It's easy to set your die height more accurately and never experience another case head separation.

The Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die is designed for a different problem. (I know, because I designed both tools.) It is designed to reduce case diameter above the belt just - .001" smaller than one of YOUR fired cases. So far, over 10,000 shooters are using these two tools.

 

[918v]

I have found that belted mag cases will separate at the head after growing more than .050”. So if you pay attention to how much you trim off every time you reload, you will have an idea how much case life you have left.

 

[FLIGHT762]

GBMaryland . . . .

The reason you need to measure headspace is to eliminate the case head separations you described. With belted magnum cases "headspace" is set by the barrel installer, and it is done. That's why I use the Digital Headspace Gauge to measure chamber clearance at the smaller end of tapered cases (at the shoulder).

Measuring the clearance (at the shoulder) shows how much clearance YOUR loads have in YOUR particular chamber. It's easy to set your die height more accurately and never experience another case head separation.

The Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die is designed for a different problem. (I know, because I designed both tools.) It is designed to reduce case diameter above the belt just - .001" smaller than one of YOUR fired cases. So far, over 10,000 shooters are using these two tools.

Larry, I'm sure GBmaryland appreciates the advice. The only glitch I see is he asked it 9 years ago in 2009.

 

[steve123]

LOL, 375 Ruger is an easier answer!

Interesting is that I sold my LW die to a friend that has a 375H&H.

 

[GBMaryland]

Holy crap... blast from the past!

Thanks for the answer!