Laser Firearm Training

Where's Bruce?

Sergeant of the Hide
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I have been considering buying a system like this. Do they live up to the hype?

 

j-moose32

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Just looked at this now, it says the cartridge won’t get extracted / ejected because there is no rim. So for a Glock setup you would rack the slide, cartridge stays and you get your actual trigger pull every time. I like the sounds of it
 

AIAW

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I wouldn’t buy it personally. No recoil impulse would ruin you and devolve your training even worse! It’s a non-educational toy at best.

Mentally, anticipation of even light recoil causes all sorts of wonky trigger behavior and knowing it’s not going to happen just means you are testing how softly the striker drops.

There is simply no good replacement for live round training/practice.
 
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Racer88

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I wouldn’t buy it personally. No recoil impulse would ruin you and devolve your training even worse! It’s a non-educational toy at best.

Mentally, anticipation of even light recoil causes all sorts of wonky trigger behavior and knowing it’s not going to happen just means you are testing how softly the striker drops.

There is simply no good replacement for live round training/practice.
Which would explain why top PROFESSIONAL competition shooters dry fire practice daily (more dry trigger presses than live fire) even though they have an UNLIMITED supply of ammo and range access (sponsored).

Not.


Gentlemen such as Bob Vogel, Ben Stoeger, and Rob Leatham attribute much of their success at the national level to hundreds of hours of dedicated dry fire practice. Bob Vogel publically states that for every live round he puts down range, he has pulled the trigger 6-8 times in dry fire!

Google just about any pro shooter + "dry fire," and you'll find more.

Dry fire doesn't replace live fire. But, it definitely can SUPPLEMENT live fire practice by allowing repetition of important facets of firing technique, by isolating those steps in the convenience of a space away from the range.
 

Racer88

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More (from some PRS shooters):

Clint Adams
Top PRS/NRL Finisher


“1-Dry fire and focus on building solid positions that reduce your wobble. When dry firing, try and keep your reticle on the target as you cycle the bolt. Smooth is fast!
Austin Overman
Director and Founder of Rocky Mountain Precision Rifle League and Top Finisher for PRS/NRL Series Matches


.....
Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.”
Collin Crane
Top Finisher PRS/NRL Series Matches.


.....
To sum it all up, one of the best things I can tell you to date is DRY FIRE, DRY FIRE, DRY FIRE, THEN LIVE FIRE.
 

AIAW

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Which would explain why top PROFESSIONAL competition shooters dry fire practice daily (more dry trigger presses than live fire) even though they have an UNLIMITED supply of ammo and range access (sponsored).

Not.




Google just about any pro shooter + "dry fire," and you'll find more.

Dry fire doesn't replace live fire. But, it definitely can SUPPLEMENT live fire practice by allowing repetition of important facets of firing technique, by isolating those steps in the convenience of a space away from the range.
Dry-fire is a perfect training aid - Yes, as a supplement. The target audience that will use this most likely won‘t see it that way. They’ll use it for 10 battery cycles then wonder why they have a good trigger break and zero muzzle control.

I give people very little upfront confidence when it comes to deciphering what is a thorough training regimen and what is a false sense of it.

My point is not that it’s a bad device. It’s that people have no clue what it’s going to do or not do for them, and that’s worse than not having done it at all. Maybe I am a little harsh on it without trying it first-hand, I will admit.
 
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Racer88

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Dry-fire is a perfect training aid - Yes, as a supplement. The target audience that will use this most likely won‘t see it that way. They’ll use it for 10 battery cycles then wonder why they have a good trigger break and zero muzzle control.

I give people very little upfront confidence when it comes to deciphering what is a thorough training regimen and what is a false sense of it.

My point is not that it’s a bad device. It’s that people have no clue what it’s going to do or not do for them, and that’s worse than not having done it at all. Maybe I am a little harsh on it without trying it first-hand, I will admit.
I hear ya. But, the same can be said of various gizmos sold to shooters, eh? "If I get this (insert gizmo here), I'll be a better shooter."

I even see it in my profession. Lots of gizmos marketed as the "KEY" to being better, faster, more profitable.

The reality is that FUNDAMENTALS are what make a good performer in ANY sport or task.

That some folks misunderstand the purpose and potential for certain things, like dry fire, does not negate its value categorically. There's a reason almost all the pro shooters dry fire.

BTW, there is a device that simulates recoil (by cycling the action) of semi-auto pistols, combined with a laser for dry fire practice. It's not exactly the same feel as recoil from live ammo, but it's darned close. It's called "CoolFire." Google it. I had some issues with the gizmo, but they've been mostly resolved. Admittedly, I haven't used it in quite a while, as I've been on this darned precision rifle kick! I've neglected my pistol shooting! ;)

I also have the SIRT laser pistol, which is a pretty slick bit of kit.

Combine with the LASR camera and software, and it's like having a range inside your house. It's pretty darned cool, and it definitely has value for training IN ADDITION (of course) to live fire practice. It supplements live fire practice, not replace it.
 
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AIAW

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I hear ya. But, the same can be said of various gizmos sold to shooters, eh? "If I get this (insert gizmo here), I'll be a better shooter."

I even see it in my profession. Lots of gizmos marketed as the "KEY" to being better, faster, more profitable.

The reality is that FUNDAMENTALS are what make a good performer in ANY sport or task.

That some folks misunderstand the purpose and potential for certain things, like dry fire, does not negate its value categorically. There's a reason almost all the pro shooters dry fire.

BTW, there is a device that simulates recoil (by cycling the action) of semi-auto pistols, combined with a laser for dry fire practice. It's not exactly the same feel as recoil from live ammo, but it's darned close. It's called "CoolFire." Google it. I had some issues with the gizmo, but they've been mostly resolved. Admittedly, I haven't used it in quite a while, as I've been on this darned precision rifle kick! I've neglected my pistol shooting! ;)

I also have the SIRT laser pistol, which is a pretty slick bit of kit.

Combine with the LASR camera and software, and it's like having a range inside your house. It's pretty darned cool, and it definitely has value for training IN ADDITION (of course) to live fire practice. It supplements live fire practice, not replace it.
Very well put!

I’m going to check out that CoolFire gizmo too.
 

j-moose32

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I hear ya. But, the same can be said of various gizmos sold to shooters, eh? "If I get this (insert gizmo here), I'll be a better shooter."

I even see it in my profession. Lots of gizmos marketed as the "KEY" to being better, faster, more profitable.

The reality is that FUNDAMENTALS are what make a good performer in ANY sport or task.

That some folks misunderstand the purpose and potential for certain things, like dry fire, does not negate its value categorically. There's a reason almost all the pro shooters dry fire.

BTW, there is a device that simulates recoil (by cycling the action) of semi-auto pistols, combined with a laser for dry fire practice. It's not exactly the same feel as recoil from live ammo, but it's darned close. It's called "CoolFire." Google it. I had some issues with the gizmo, but they've been mostly resolved. Admittedly, I haven't used it in quite a while, as I've been on this darned precision rifle kick! I've neglected my pistol shooting! ;)

I also have the SIRT laser pistol, which is a pretty slick bit of kit.

Combine with the LASR camera and software, and it's like having a range inside your house. It's pretty darned cool, and it definitely has value for training IN ADDITION (of course) to live fire practice. It supplements live fire practice, not replace it.
How do you like the SIRT pistol? I literally just ordered one yesterday for my dry fire practice to really up it over the winter time.

I also have seen the cool fire and was interested but have heard extremely mixed things about the recoil.

Any insight on both training aides is appreciated!
 

Racer88

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How do you like the SIRT pistol? I literally just ordered one yesterday for my dry fire practice to really up it over the winter time.

I also have seen the cool fire and was interested but have heard extremely mixed things about the recoil.

Any insight on both training aides is appreciated!
The SIRT is nice in that it has the same form factor as a Glock or S&W, if you carry one of those.

It's definitely a nice piece of equipment. Which version did you get? The one with the metal slide is definitely closer to feeling the same in the hand weight-wise. But, the plastic slide version is nice, too.

Look into the LASR program. Goes perfectly with the SIRT!
 

j-moose32

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I got the one modeled after a Glock with the metal frame and there mags. I also got the LASR program to pair with it. I’m gonna turn my unfinished basement into a dry fire range.

Merry Christmas to me ?

Also how does the trigger feel on the SIRT pistol? I’m hoping it’s pretty close to that of a Glock
 

Racer88

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I got the one modeled after a Glock with the metal frame and there mags. I also got the LASR program to pair with it. I’m gonna turn my unfinished basement into a dry fire range.

Merry Christmas to me ?

Also how does the trigger feel on the SIRT pistol? I’m hoping it’s pretty close to that of a Glock
Heck, yeah! You're going to love it.
 
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j-moose32

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Awesome, glad to hear it. I was super hesitant and put this off forever but I think it’s gonna really help up my game as opposed to my normal dry fire. Any suggestions for scaled targets? I wanna replicate a b8 target from 25 yards in the basement, but definitely don’t have 25 yards
 

shoobe01

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LOVE the SIRT. Really useful, as stated above it makes dry fire more meaningful as you get DIRECT feedback of the quality of your trigger press, and can focus on grip, trigger, sights the proper way instead of also trying to monitor how you are shooting.

I have a SIRT pistol and the AR bolt. Very useful also for initial training of people. Also like laser trainers for the part where they are not guns. Much less happy with laser cartridges, but SIRT bolt or pistol means I can point it anywhere I want in the house. I would use the pistol to keep up on skills in hotel rooms when I traveled (domestically!) as it's also very quiet.

For my next step, I go to Airsoft. Similarly, it's not a perfect replica (lower recoil) but is close enough to get a lot of the same aspects trained up, and is almost entirely backstop safe, no earpro required.

Etc. etc. Not every trigger pull can or should be full power, live fire. These have their places.
 
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Racer88

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Cheyenne Bodie

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Awesome, glad to hear it. I was super hesitant and put this off forever but I think it’s gonna really help up my game as opposed to my normal dry fire. Any suggestions for scaled targets? I wanna replicate a b8 target from 25 yards in the basement, but definitely don’t have 25 yards

Go Fast Don't Suck has some scaled targets for dry fire practising as well.

On their website:
 
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j-moose32

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Haven’t even clicked the link yet and they got my attention with there name, talk about branding haha
 

Delicatessen

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Does anyone have experience with the coolfire system? I am trying to find something for dry fire that is closer to my carry da/sa (tend towards cz) I could do airsoft with laser but not sure about how double action works in them. I generally like SIRT but don’t use a Glock or M&P primarily and have had too many laser cartridges fail quickly (also no trigger transition). This is just as a supplement especially in winter not replacing real practice.
 

theLBC

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i use a laserlyte target for pistol dry fire. it works great for me.
 

Racer88

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Does anyone have experience with the coolfire system? I am trying to find something for dry fire that is closer to my carry da/sa (tend towards cz) I could do airsoft with laser but not sure about how double action works in them. I generally like SIRT but don’t use a Glock or M&P primarily and have had too many laser cartridges fail quickly (also no trigger transition). This is just as a supplement especially in winter not replacing real practice.
I had some issues with my Coolfire system. To be honest, while the company FINALLY got back to me, I haven't had time to work through it. It's a very cool (no pun) concept. And, it does work. How RELIABLY it works is the question. Some day, if I ever take some time away from this rifle addiction, I'll get back to it and see if I can get it to work "as advertised."

You might check around for some more recent reviews. Maybe it's all sorted out now.