Rifle Scopes Learning curve
- Thread starter SNOW JW
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If you take all of your dope written in MOA and re-write all of it in mils (1 mil = 3.43 MOA) and if you stop thinking of your shot corrections as inches it should take all of about 5 minutes.
What is the source of your confusion?
What is the source of your confusion?
I was once at the same point you are. I REFUSED to change from MOA.
Until I came to the realization it’s metric over standard.
Searching through a socket set, wouldn’t it be easier to locate any socket when they are all labeled in order 1-10? Same principle.
Until I came to the realization it’s metric over standard.
Searching through a socket set, wouldn’t it be easier to locate any socket when they are all labeled in order 1-10? Same principle.
Unless you are using your reticle for ranging your target these no need to think in inches or any other linear measurement.
Just dial/hold what your ballistic data says, if your shot doesn't hit where you wanted use the
As 308 said, stop thinking of corrections in terms of inches and use your reticle to get corrections in Mils, dial that into the scope and you are ready to go.
Please not another!
So then don’t change over. I’d say it probably took my 5 mins watching a YouTube video to understand the differences. I never got into moa but I knew enough about to it to know smaller numbers were easier for me to reference under time constraints
Minutes of arc and milliradians are very small angles. There is no need to think of any linear measurements WHATSOEVER to make adjustments to elevation and windage on your scope.
Do you have a dope chart already made in MOA? If yes, take every single number and divide them by 3.43. Boom now your dope is in mils, throw away your MOA card and move on.
This shit is only difficult if people refuse to listen to advise.
What is there to think about? I look at my dope for 600 yards and it says 4.2 mils up. I look at the elevation turret of my mil scope and turn it until 4.2 up lines up with the index line.
If my dope said 14.5 MOA up, I'd turn the turret of my MOA scope to 14.5 and send one. It's that simple and it takes the same amount of time. There's more numbers on the turret but they go by faster. Because engineering.
It's like driving in Canada.....I see a sign that says my destination is 200 km away and I'm driving at 100 km/h. I know I'll be there in 2 hrs and don't give a shit how many miles that is.
If you miss your target by 3mils and it’s 17 furlongs away, you adjust 3 Mils.
If you miss your target by 9 MOA and it’s 398 cubits away, you adjust 9 MOA.
It’s not fuggin rocket science. If it was I wouldn’t be able to do it.
If you miss your target by 9 MOA and it’s 398 cubits away, you adjust 9 MOA.
It’s not fuggin rocket science. If it was I wouldn’t be able to do it.
I seriously made the change in less than one shooting session. If you use your reticle to measure your miss, you simply adjust to that.
When sighting in, shoot a group. Read your reticle to see how many lines you need to turn L/R or U/D. Then adjust to that.
I don’t think in moa, I think “how many of the .2 lines do I need to adjust L/R to be where I want.
It’s absolutely easy if you let it be.
When sighting in, shoot a group. Read your reticle to see how many lines you need to turn L/R or U/D. Then adjust to that.
I don’t think in moa, I think “how many of the .2 lines do I need to adjust L/R to be where I want.
It’s absolutely easy if you let it be.
Wood butcher by trade and understand what you mean but it really is as easy as the guys describe. They are units of measurement with the tape measure 3-4” in front of your nose, reticle dependant. I still catch myself doing it when zeroing a mil/mil scope and I remind myself to use the ruler in front of my nose.......dumb ass? MIL is way easier for me but the unit of measurement doesn’t matter as long as the reticle and the turrets match. Light came on when I got rid of scopes with reticles and turrets that didn’t match?
If someone is REALLY struggling with this, download and print yourself a stack of 0.1 mil grid sighting in targets. The one with the black square in the center I made one day I was bored. The other one I found online.
Also bear in mind the rest of the world uses the metric system, the shooters there have had to learn to use MOA.
You don't need a degree in mathematics to be able to make the change.
I really don't get the confusing when it comes to under standing the metric system, once you know the words in just x1000.
1000mm=1m 1000m=km
Just don't ever use centimeters, as they are for girls.
You don't need a degree in mathematics to be able to make the change.
I really don't get the confusing when it comes to under standing the metric system, once you know the words in just x1000.
1000mm=1m 1000m=km
Just don't ever use centimeters, as they are for girls.
I grew up learning the metric system and using it for the first 20 years of my life, I now work in aviation where everything is imperial and it didn't take much practice to be fluent in both, I did have a head start because of shooting though.
Provided measurement are under a foot it's a piece of piss, but above that when trying to measure 5ft 3" and 3/16" I start thinking this is stupid and why can't it just be 1605mm.
I must admit when doing building projects at home inches can be quite hand, being able to quickly make measurements in 1/4" or 1/8" increments can be a lot easier than trying to do 3mm or 6mm measurements.
D
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Your biggest challenge will be to stop thinking in linear measurements at all and think in angles. Even when using MOA, if you are thinking feet and inches you are doing it wrong.
Except......it’s not metric or standard.
Except for some wind stuff that has been/is being discussed in another thread, using mils and moa is exactly the same.
Dope is 7 mil or 40 moa. The turrets are labeled and you turn it to the number. Use the reticle to correct.
5.1 or 5.25, who cares?
No metric or standard needed.
Now, perception and personal preference is a different story. But there is absolutely zero metric or standard involved.
As others have said, inches, meter, centimeters, feet, etc have zero to do with it. This was a huge misstep that precision shooting has and will likely never recover from fully.
Also, if you think in fractions, .1,.2,.3 etc etc is 1/10, 2/10, 3/10, 4/10, 1/2......etc. You can still think in fractions.
I started shooting with scopes in the 8th grade - lemme see, that was 54yrs ago. In the 1960s, I'd never heard of a milradian, and wouldn't have paid any attention to it if I had - all I had were Weaver scopes - Leupolds were for guys with more money than sense. Fast forward to 11/16/2013 when I bought my first ffp mil scope, a Bushnell 3.5-21x50 ERS. I was still thinking in terms of MOA/inches when I zero'd that scope the first time, and I struggled with converting corrections that I'd measured in inches to mils. Then it dawned on me - this is a ffp reticle dummy - use it! Never had a problem since, and much prefer to deal with mils vs moa. Still moving towards replacing the remaining MOA sfp scopes I have on AR10s & 15s with mil ffp versions, but probably won't bother to replace quality moa sfp scopes with mil ffp versions - with the exception of a few with 1/8 moa clicks, it's not worth the $$$ to me.
I meant it’s like dealing with standard as opposed to metric, in principle only. Mils are easier, just like metric.
I didn’t mean to infer that it is metric, just a comparison
Thanks for the info. I should have asked the question after I took the gun to the range. Looking at the computer researching & thinking about it I was having to think about it more than I should. 15 Min behind the gun (it's Neg deg here) was all I needed.
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