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Leaving the bolt gun for a semi auto

flati

flati

Private
Minuteman
Oct 14, 2019
44
25
Eastern Ohio
Ok, I've decided to sell my Accuracy International AT308 for a semi auto precision rifle. I've always loved the Accuracy International rifles, they are absolutely works of art and extremely accurate but I now want a semi auto platform lighter and less expensive than the AI and was hoping for some opinions on the rifles I should be looking at. I see Wilson Combat has precision rifle offerings, any thoughts?
 
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If you want an "entry level" long rsnge AR platorm look at the KAK 300WSM magnum uppers. You can also do a 300 RSAUM but have to use lighter (shorter) projectiles. SWORD makes true magnum semi auto's but they are very pricey
 
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After either owning or working with most of the large frame AR based rifles, and currently owning an AI here are my recommendations for precision based semi-auto: JP LRI-20, GA Precision GAP-10, Seekins SP-10, and Daniel Defense.

Another option is build your own. Pick a upper/lower/handguard in the style you like then add a Bartlein/Krieger/Proof barrel with a nice 2-stage trigger and adjustable gas block. Can be done cheaper than a JP or GAP with comparable accuracy potential.

I’d steer clear of the Wilson rifles. They do not seem to be anywhere near the same level as their 1911’s. Was at a school last year and a couple people were having issues with reliability (can’t remember the specifics but I did shoot one and it did it was accurate).

I also would NEVER get rid of my AI for a semi. I’ll add to my collection and will sell off many guns but the AI will always be in my collection. Also be aware that would will probably see groups open up a bit from what your use to with your AI… at least for a while…. I can never shoot the same level of accuracy with my semi’s as I can with my bolt guns. My AI is under an 1/2 MOA all day long. I have a hard time hitting a 1/2 MOA constantly with my semi platforms. Generally I’m closer to 3/4.
 
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Not really wanting entry level, probably a 2k rifle, at least that's half of the price of my AI which will be fine with me.
 
The new gun is going to be more expensive than the AI. Unless you're making loan payments on it. :)
 
I have a Seekins SP10 in 6.5cm that shoots and had a DD M5v4 in 6.5cm. I don’t have any experience with the others mentioned. The Seekins is the better shooter out the box but the DD does well enough and is a smaller and lighter package.

The only issue I have with the Seekins is that it will not reliably chamber the first round of a loaded magazine. It does at a higher percentage when the bolt is dropped off the magazine catch but it still is not reliable. I need to pick up a stronger spring. Regardless of what anyone says otherwise, you cannot use your thumb on the bolt to push a partially chambered round into battery. This is folklore. The SP10 receivers need a forward assist for just this reason.
 
flati said:
Good lord, some of these rifles are expensive, perhaps I should have said looking for the best $2000 rifle!
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You won’t be in the same class of rifles at $2000 as your AI. A Seekins SP10 is the closest factory rifle to your price range. You would be at least $2000 building your own with a top tier barrel and a quality receiver set.
 
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flati said:
Good lord, some of these rifles are expensive, perhaps I should have said looking for the best $2000 rifle!
Click to expand...
Since you have a pretty low budget, I’d say your best bet for an accurate rifle is the SP-10 or build your own. My recommendation is build your own.

If it’s a budget issue, I’d go with a Grey Ghost Precision billet upper/lower/handguard. They have batches of blemished parts in the “Treasure Trove” section frequently that can save you a bunch of money. Id then go with a Proof stainless barrel and a Larue MBT Trigger. Then the remainder on the rest of the small parts and furniture should keep you at the $2000 limit. I’ve helped a few friends that had a budget build something similar with very good results. I’d also recommend you keep the AI and piece the semi together over time….but that’s just my opinion.
 
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JP is a good out of the box solution

I went the build route:
- Wilson lightened upper/lower (their receivers are just fine)
- JP full mass high pressure BCG
- Criterion hybrid barrel, 16” 6.5 CM, rifle length gas
- Geissele SSA-E trigger
- Can’t remember the buffer system, but it works. It’s “A5” length tube with a carbine sized buffer. I’d have to check the spring and buffer weight.

Runs flawlessly and is easily 3/4 MOA with factory Hornady 140/143gr ELDs, with the barrel life afforded by chrome lining. And the JP BCG is a chef’s kiss.
 
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wade2big said:
I have a Seekins SP10 in 6.5cm that shoots and had a DD M5v4 in 6.5cm. I don’t have any experience with the others mentioned. The Seekins is the better shooter out the box but the DD does well enough and is a smaller and lighter package.

The only issue I have with the Seekins is that it will not reliably chamber the first round of a loaded magazine. It does at a higher percentage when the bolt is dropped off the magazine catch but it still is not reliable. I need to pick up a stronger spring. Regardless of what anyone says otherwise, you cannot use your thumb on the bolt to push a partially chambered round into battery. This is folklore. The SP10 receivers need a forward assist for just this reason.
Click to expand...
I have had the same issue with my SP-10 not reliably loading the first round from a locked back bolt using Magpul magazines. BUT, happens far less often with Lancer, especially after some breaking in.
 
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I went down the JP path after a ton of thought and don’t regret it at all. Silly that I avoided it for so long actually. Otherwise, Talk with @bigjake83. Hes always building gas guns, large and small frame that seem to be tack drivers, could maybe get something together within your budget

Edited to add that you won’t pick up the gas gun and shoot it as well as your bolt right away. So keep the AI and add a gas gun to the herd.
 
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It all depends on your goals. If you are expecting identical accuracy to your AI you will probably be disappointed. If are OK taking a small accuracy hit for the other advantages of a gas gun, proceed.

I don't have any experience with the above brands. I did build a custom 6.5 CM LR-308 though. This was built on a DPMS receiver set, with a custom McGowen 24" medium/heavy rifle-gas barrel. It has an A2 buffer/stock, and a Fulton Armory high pressure bolt. It shoots pretty well for a fairly inexpensive build (average 1.5" 5 shot groups at 200 yds) with 39.0 gr Varget under 123 grain Nosler CC's. It would probably cost $1500 to duplicate this rifle today.

It can't quite keep up with my buddies custom 260 bolt gun, but it I have shot it out to 1200 yds with decent results. It weighs ton and is very long.

Make sure that whatever you get has a small firing pin/high pressure bolt, or there is a high likelihood of having primer issues, especially with 6.5 CM. Also do know that there is a higher chance of getting an unreliable lemon compared to an AR-15.
 
Recently traded my JP for an AI. Only way I could ever see myself going the other direction is if I lived in hog country and wanted something faster for thermal/NV

Otherwise I think I’d regret the swap
 
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flati said:
Ok, I've decided to sell my Accuracy International AT308 for a semi auto precision rifle. I've always loved the Accuracy International rifles, they are absolutely works of art and extremely accurate but I now want a semi auto platform lighter and less expensive than the AI and was hoping for some opinions on the rifles I should be looking at. I see Wilson Combat has precision rifle offerings, any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Did you specifically want large frame?
 
Call Clyde Armory in Athens Ga. Last time I was there they still had a Police trade in GAP10 that fit your budget. Rifle looked new sans some handling bumps and bruises.
 
flati said:
Good lord, some of these rifles are expensive, perhaps I should have said looking for the best $2000 rifle!
Click to expand...
Don't cheap out.

Keep the AT and save for a nice complementary semiauto large frame (or small frame) in the cartridge of your choice...Some have suggested JP and Seekins, both are solid options but you're buying an MWS, 417 or SR25 (there may be a few other brands worth mentioning but those three come to mind atm) if you're looking for broad equivalence to the AI in a factory, mass produced semi auto.

That said, why specifically do you want to do this?

You mention the need for weight savings - are you rucking with the AI on the regular?

Are you overweight?

What if you lost 5-10 lbs or "maingained" via strength training? Beats making a decision to trade out your AI for a budget semi you may come to regret....
 
You will regret selling a bolt gun (a good one at that) for a semi that may or may not run and you may shoot it like shit.

If you really want a semi, buy one. If you cant afford to have both, then there is always onlyfans.
 
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Aero Precision M5 with BA or WC barrel. Sub 2K and if you can shoot, it will.
 
wade2big said:
The only issue I have with the Seekins is that it will not reliably chamber the first round of a loaded magazine. It does at a higher percentage when the bolt is dropped off the magazine catch but it still is not reliable. I need to pick up a stronger spring. Regardless of what anyone says otherwise, you cannot use your thumb on the bolt to push a partially chambered round into battery. This is folklore. The SP10 receivers need a forward assist for just this reason.
Click to expand...

Have you sent it back to Seekins for evaluation?

I've personally never had that issue with any of my Off The Shelf SP10's or the other dozen I've built with the SP10 Builders Kit.
 
OP, if that AI is a bolt gun you just want to get rid of then I can understand. But In no way would I let that thing go if I didn’t have another bolt gun I just liked better( probably could t regardless). On the precision gas gun part, if you want lighter go small frame. Lighter & little cheaper to build out quality. If you go large frame please don’t skimp on it! That AI is going to have you going into this with high expectations. Take it from someone who has always been a bolt guy and went down this rabbit hole, sometimes ignoring folks telling me the things I’m sharing now.
 
I don’t think you will find what you seek.

When I started an LMT with an S&B 5-25 was going to be my one precision rifle.

I soon found it was not stacking bullets the way I expected.

That was definitely more me than the rifle…there is a shitload of moving mass in a .308 AR.

I bought a bolt gun and found Nirvana.

If your idea is having quick follow ups and a respectable 2MOA/1.5 MOA in doing so is what you seek go for it.

They will shoot better than I hold them but it is a tool for a different purpose than the AI - it will not replace your AI nor would your AI be suitable as the purpose of the semi-auto……but I think the bolt is closer to fulfill the semi role than the semi is to fulfill the bolt role.

The bolt will be more forgiving.

Expect that and you will find what you seek.
 
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pmclaine said:
…

If your idea is having quick follow ups and a respectable 2MOA/1.5 MOA in doing so is what you seek go for it.

…
Click to expand...
Bolt guns will have a better precision potential, but 1.5-2 MOA is pretty conservative for what to expect with a precision gas gun. 0.75-1.25 MOA is a more appropriate expectation with good ammo.
 
PappyM3 said:
Bolt guns will have a better precision potential, but 1.5-2 MOA is pretty conservative for what to expect with a precision gas gun. 0.75-1.25 MOA is a more appropriate expectation with good ammo.
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Agreed I have become much better with mine but all the things that degrade your bolt accuracy will be magnified in the semi. I wanted to be conservative in my MOA.

I found ammo is much more critical in the semi and FGMM 168 is the BOM. 175s not as good. Due that ammo belief there is an argument to be made the semi is an 800 yard tool. I’m not a pusher of the 168 won’t go further beliefs, I have seen them do so, it’s just you are stacking another negative variable.

Nothing is written in stone, just generalities. Dudes on the LMT post have thrown up some great tight groups.

Edit

My LMT now wears a USO 1-8 and the S&B went on a bolt gun. I think my .308 semi is now the perfect tool it should be perhaps only improved if I went with a similarly sized 2-10 scope.
 
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Are you in a hurry? I know a guy that might trade you.

www.snipershide.com

Need advice on a trade deal gone bad (for me).

I have unfortunately found myself in a bit of a situation where I am on the bad end of a firearms trade. Back in May of this year, I found an ad posted by another hide member who was wanting to trade an AR-15 build for a rifle in 6 Creedmoor. I was in the market for a new AR-15 and also had a 6...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
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Man, you guys really got me thinking now....



This is where I'm at with things. I recently retired from a 31 year law enforcement career, being assigned to a SRT as an operator and a sniper. The AI was purchased a few years ago and is my own. I guess I'm now looking at it and thinking it's too expensive and more than I need to just leave in the gun safe and shoot out to 400 yards only a couple times a year with a buddy. My initial thoughts were to sell it and replace it with something lesser expensive just to play with occasionally. I'm not in a bad financial situation or out of shape, just having a hard time justifying this rifle now that I'm no longer a law enforcement sniper. With all of that said, I still want a precision rifle and thought maybe a semi auto would be more appropriate for my needs or wants if that makes sense...I guess the short version is I'm having a hard time justifying a big dollar rifle just sitting there.
 
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flati said:
Man, you guys really got me thinking now....



This is where I'm at with things. I recently retired from a 31 year law enforcement career, being assigned to a SRT as an operator and a sniper. The AI was purchased a few years ago and is my own. I guess I'm now looking at it and thinking it's too expensive and more than I need to just leave in the gun safe and shoot out to 400 yards only a couple times a year with a buddy. My initial thoughts were to sell it and replace it with something lesser expensive just to play with occasionally. I'm not in a bad financial situation or out of shape, just having a hard time justifying this rifle now that I'm no longer a law enforcement sniper. With all of that said, I still want a precision rifle and thought maybe a semi auto would be more appropriate for my needs or wants if that makes sense...I guess the short version is I'm having a hard time justifying a big dollar rifle just sitting there.
Click to expand...
I would keep the bolt action for now, buy the semi auto, use it for 6 months to a year, and then decide which rifle, if any, to sell.

So many guys write a variation of, “Had a pre-64 30-06 signed by Carlos Hathcock, Simo Häyhä, Abe Lincoln, and Linda Lovelace. Shot minus 1 MOA it was so accurate. Sold it for a pack of smokes and a pink giraffe stuffy and I sure miss it.”
 
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bigjake83 said:
Have you sent it back to Seekins for evaluation?

I've personally never had that issue with any of my Off The Shelf SP10's or the other dozen I've built with the SP10 Builders Kit.
Click to expand...
This. I’ve never had any issues with loading a the first round on mine. Honestly only issues I’ve had with mine was a few weeks ago shooting it suppressed for the first time ever. No issues before that in over 1500 rounds.
 
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flati said:
Man, you guys really got me thinking now....



This is where I'm at with things. I recently retired from a 31 year law enforcement career, being assigned to a SRT as an operator and a sniper. The AI was purchased a few years ago and is my own. I guess I'm now looking at it and thinking it's too expensive and more than I need to just leave in the gun safe and shoot out to 400 yards only a couple times a year with a buddy. My initial thoughts were to sell it and replace it with something lesser expensive just to play with occasionally. I'm not in a bad financial situation or out of shape, just having a hard time justifying this rifle now that I'm no longer a law enforcement sniper. With all of that said, I still want a precision rifle and thought maybe a semi auto would be more appropriate for my needs or wants if that makes sense...I guess the short version is I'm having a hard time justifying a big dollar rifle just sitting there.
Click to expand...
You're putting burdens on yourself that are not yours to bear. You're an American. You're a man. You're an LE sniper. Heck, you've earned having an AI in the safe, especially if you used it for Uncle Sugar. If that's not enough (and I'm only joking a little here) you have a duty to pass on your knowledge to the ones who'll take your place. Otherwise they'll be scrolling though their phones getting fatter, softer, and dumber by the second.

This idea that you have too much money tied up in a rifle is like a great big bag of bricks you're carrying around. Just put down the bricks. And then get yourself a high end large frame gasser. If you don't, can you really call yourself a well-rounded rifleman? You're asking if you can afford it, but the real question is can you afford NOT to? Just because you like it, and it costs lots of money, does that mean that it's not your duty as a patriotic American to be proficient with it? Freedom isn't free. I think we can all agree that if you're truly serious about being all you can be, not only will you keep the AI, but you'll also get into the large frame game.

God bless America
 
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Agree with above and others. If you can afford it, keep the AI and get a gasser. Made the SP10 recommendation above. Looks like many other have as well. There’s a reason. IMO there is no other equivalently priced option with better accuracy. side note: Seekins even won a military contact with the SP10M, meaning it’s not a delicate flower. Lol
 
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flati said:
Man, you guys really got me thinking now....



This is where I'm at with things. I recently retired from a 31 year law enforcement career, being assigned to a SRT as an operator and a sniper. The AI was purchased a few years ago and is my own. I guess I'm now looking at it and thinking it's too expensive and more than I need to just leave in the gun safe and shoot out to 400 yards only a couple times a year with a buddy. My initial thoughts were to sell it and replace it with something lesser expensive just to play with occasionally. I'm not in a bad financial situation or out of shape, just having a hard time justifying this rifle now that I'm no longer a law enforcement sniper. With all of that said, I still want a precision rifle and thought maybe a semi auto would be more appropriate for my needs or wants if that makes sense...I guess the short version is I'm having a hard time justifying a big dollar rifle just sitting there.
Click to expand...

I respect your pragmatism.

In addition to being a pragmatist myself, when I hung up my gun professionally, I had a mental need to sell any firearm I owned similar to what I carried. For me, it was a psychological reboot whereby I told myself that I didn’t have to see every single firearm as a tactical tool — that fun was indeed okay.

-Stan
 
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flati said:
I'm having a hard time justifying a big dollar rifle just sitting there.
Click to expand...

If you don't need the cash, then it's both a sunk cost and an appreciating asset.

If not using it bothers you, then use it.

You are retired. Do you not have more time to shoot?

None of this makes any sense to me.
 
SP10, great rifle for the price. GAP builds their gap 10 off the same receivers.
 
Go buy a Sharps or a rolling block with iron sights to shoot at 400. If you can't make the distance more challenging, make the shooting more challenging. :cool:

(wait that's a stupid idea, it won't be any cheaper)
 
If you and your buddy really want come fun out to 400 yards then keep the AI

Buy a B14R or CZ MTR in .22. Throw a Athlon or Arken EP5 or similar on there. Begin the wait for a TBAC takedown 22 suppressor.

You’d be into this setup for around $2k total and have a ton of fun with no ear pro required

Tell your buddy to do the same. About $120-$150 for decent 500 round box of ammo. Makes only being able to get to shorter ranges much more enjoyable
 
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hafejd30 said:
If you and your buddy really want come fun out to 400 yards then keep the AI

Buy a B14R or CZ MTR in .22. Throw a Athlon or Arken EP5 or similar on there. Begin the wait for a TBAC takedown 22 suppressor.

You’d be into this setup for around $2k total and have a ton of fun with no ear pro required

Tell your buddy to do the same. About $120-$150 for decent 500 round box of ammo. Makes only being able to get to shorter ranges much more enjoyable
Click to expand...

Best idea yet

Ringing steel at 300 yds with my B-14R is a freaking blast.
 
308pirate said:
Best idea yet

Ringing steel at 300 yds with my B-14R is a freaking blast.
Click to expand...
Hitting the kyl last weekend with my T1X and B14R.
IMG_5844.jpeg
IMG_5845.jpeg
 
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308pirate said:
If you don't need the cash, then it's both a sunk cost and an appreciating asset.

If not using it bothers you, then use it.

You are retired. Do you not have more time to shoot?

None of this makes any sense to me.
Click to expand...
@flati

I'm still hoping you can explain the reasoning behind your decision.

I realize I don't have to get it. But I just don't get it.
 
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