Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
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Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Nice indeed...but I'd get some lower rings. But more importantly, how's it shoot? (Yes...I know about the accuracy guarantee).
Nice indeed...but I'd get some lower rings. But more importantly, how's it shoot? (Yes...I know about the accuracy guarantee).
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pwc001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why are the rings so damn tall. Why do they use that stock?</div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pwc001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why are the rings so damn tall. Why do they use that stock?</div></div>
+1
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Savage offers McM A-5's these guys should take a hint.
First Ed Brown now LB
Savage offers McM A-5's these guys should take a hint.
First Ed Brown now LB
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbet83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice looking gun, but $3500 plus for a rifle with a B&C??? </div></div>
I have a $4700 custom rifle with a B&C coming.
Why down on B&C Medalist? I have never personally known anyone who had a problem with one, nor have I had one myself.
Is this just a case of forum hating or do have you specifically experienced something that tells you they are not an ok choice?
(There ARE other options besides manners and McM. I happen to like this particular style of the fore-end which neither Manners nor McM offer. They offer similar or something that can be made to work the same, but not this style.)
And... has anyone else notice that the OP's posts are all pretty much advertisements? Photos of guns. The couple posts that have text are basically spec sheets. New user. Low post count. Minimal profile.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbet83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice looking gun, but $3500 plus for a rifle with a B&C??? </div></div>
I have a $4700 custom rifle with a B&C coming.
Why down on B&C Medalist? I have never personally known anyone who had a problem with one, nor have I had one myself.
Is this just a case of forum hating or do have you specifically experienced something that tells you they are not an ok choice?
(There ARE other options besides manners and McM. I happen to like this particular style of the fore-end which neither Manners nor McM offer. They offer similar or something that can be made to work the same, but not this style.)
And... has anyone else notice that the OP's posts are all pretty much advertisements? Photos of guns. The couple posts that have text are basically spec sheets. New user. Low post count. Minimal profile.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">has anyone else notice that the OP's posts are all pretty much advertisements? Photos of guns. The couple posts that have text are basically spec sheets. New user. Low post count. Minimal profile. </div></div>
Yes. It has happened before when it comes to Les Baer rifles. The last one was something like..."Hey look at this ten shot group through the Les Baer. All other rifle builders can suck it." I'm paraphrasing, but that is pretty damn close. When they actually PERFORM in customer hands I might take notice.
Josh
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">has anyone else notice that the OP's posts are all pretty much advertisements? Photos of guns. The couple posts that have text are basically spec sheets. New user. Low post count. Minimal profile. </div></div>
Yes. It has happened before when it comes to Les Baer rifles. The last one was something like..."Hey look at this ten shot group through the Les Baer. All other rifle builders can suck it." I'm paraphrasing, but that is pretty damn close. When they actually PERFORM in customer hands I might take notice.
Josh
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbet83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice looking gun, but $3500 plus for a rifle with a B&C??? </div></div>I had the same thought myself. But I guess if the gun shoots as well as they guarantee... it's probably still a good buy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbet83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice looking gun, but $3500 plus for a rifle with a B&C??? </div></div>I had the same thought myself. But I guess if the gun shoots as well as they guarantee... it's probably still a good buy.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbet83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice looking gun, but $3500 plus for a rifle with a B&C??? </div></div>
I have a $4700 custom rifle with a B&C coming.
Why down on B&C Medalist? I have never personally known anyone who had a problem with one, nor have I had one myself.
Is this just a case of forum hating or do have you specifically experienced something that tells you they are not an ok choice?
(There ARE other options besides manners and McM. I happen to like this particular style of the fore-end which neither Manners nor McM offer. They offer similar or something that can be made to work the same, but not this style.)
And... has anyone else notice that the OP's posts are all pretty much advertisements? Photos of guns. The couple posts that have text are basically spec sheets. New user. Low post count. Minimal profile. </div></div>
Perhaps I can assist to offer some background information on the OP to alleviate concerns of his possible commercial intent. Looking at the photos and previous posts, he is definitely from my part of the world, Thailand, so he can not possibly sale firearms to you guys in the US. On the other hand, the majority of guns and parts we have here in Thailand are imported from the US.
I'm guessing that he simply wants to share photos of his toys.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbet83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice looking gun, but $3500 plus for a rifle with a B&C??? </div></div>
I have a $4700 custom rifle with a B&C coming.
Why down on B&C Medalist? I have never personally known anyone who had a problem with one, nor have I had one myself.
Is this just a case of forum hating or do have you specifically experienced something that tells you they are not an ok choice?
(There ARE other options besides manners and McM. I happen to like this particular style of the fore-end which neither Manners nor McM offer. They offer similar or something that can be made to work the same, but not this style.)
And... has anyone else notice that the OP's posts are all pretty much advertisements? Photos of guns. The couple posts that have text are basically spec sheets. New user. Low post count. Minimal profile. </div></div>
Perhaps I can assist to offer some background information on the OP to alleviate concerns of his possible commercial intent. Looking at the photos and previous posts, he is definitely from my part of the world, Thailand, so he can not possibly sale firearms to you guys in the US. On the other hand, the majority of guns and parts we have here in Thailand are imported from the US.
I'm guessing that he simply wants to share photos of his toys.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
They are nice HQ photos at least!
Here is the problem with the stock on that particular rifle: Nothing!! The B&C Tactical is a good entry level adjustable stock, not too many people will dispute that. Why everybody trips balls about this stock on this stick is because for that kind of money, you can get a custom rifle built with a Manners/McMillan for around the same coin. I know there are smiths here on the Hide that build em right, in that same monetary ballpark with one of the best stocks money can buy. I'm sure the other parts are the same or comparable to a custom build and I'm sure the machine work is on par, but if the price tag is that close I'm goin with the build that provides the best stock in the industry.
Kelly
They are nice HQ photos at least!
Here is the problem with the stock on that particular rifle: Nothing!! The B&C Tactical is a good entry level adjustable stock, not too many people will dispute that. Why everybody trips balls about this stock on this stick is because for that kind of money, you can get a custom rifle built with a Manners/McMillan for around the same coin. I know there are smiths here on the Hide that build em right, in that same monetary ballpark with one of the best stocks money can buy. I'm sure the other parts are the same or comparable to a custom build and I'm sure the machine work is on par, but if the price tag is that close I'm goin with the build that provides the best stock in the industry.
Kelly
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are nice HQ photos at least!
Here is the problem with the stock on that particular rifle: Nothing!! The B&C Tactical is a good entry level adjustable stock, not too many people will dispute that. Why everybody trips balls about this stock on this stick is because for that kind of money, you can get a custom rifle built with a Manners/McMillan for around the same coin. I know there are smiths here on the Hide that build em right, in that same monetary ballpark with one of the best stocks money can buy. I'm sure the other parts are the same or comparable to a custom build and I'm sure the machine work is on par, but if the price tag is that close I'm goin with the build that provides the best stock in the industry.
Kelly </div></div>
worst blanket statement, ever.
what makes the BC only "entry level"?? it's fiberglass with a full length bedding block....HS does that...they're good....so why label it a lesser thing???? i'd like to see someone post results from going from a BC to a manners or mcmillan and see if they gain anything...given both bedded and tq'd properly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are nice HQ photos at least!
Here is the problem with the stock on that particular rifle: Nothing!! The B&C Tactical is a good entry level adjustable stock, not too many people will dispute that. Why everybody trips balls about this stock on this stick is because for that kind of money, you can get a custom rifle built with a Manners/McMillan for around the same coin. I know there are smiths here on the Hide that build em right, in that same monetary ballpark with one of the best stocks money can buy. I'm sure the other parts are the same or comparable to a custom build and I'm sure the machine work is on par, but if the price tag is that close I'm goin with the build that provides the best stock in the industry.
Kelly </div></div>
worst blanket statement, ever.
what makes the BC only "entry level"?? it's fiberglass with a full length bedding block....HS does that...they're good....so why label it a lesser thing???? i'd like to see someone post results from going from a BC to a manners or mcmillan and see if they gain anything...given both bedded and tq'd properly.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Call it what you want, but it is the truth. It wasn't a slight against the B&C, hell I was looking into one myself. They just aren't on the same level as the McM/Manners stocks. And you'll notice that they are about $300 or so less than the other stocks. So don't get all wound up about my statement, I did research for months and months when I was shopping around for a stock. If you talk to people that own them, nobody has ever complained about the McMillan or Manners except for maybe the wait. On the other hand, I have heard of unhappy B&C owners.
Kelly
Call it what you want, but it is the truth. It wasn't a slight against the B&C, hell I was looking into one myself. They just aren't on the same level as the McM/Manners stocks. And you'll notice that they are about $300 or so less than the other stocks. So don't get all wound up about my statement, I did research for months and months when I was shopping around for a stock. If you talk to people that own them, nobody has ever complained about the McMillan or Manners except for maybe the wait. On the other hand, I have heard of unhappy B&C owners.
Kelly
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They just aren't on the same level as the McM/Manners stocks. </div></div>
Oh thank you, wise one, for that grain of truth. The detail which you have shared with us will forever sate my curiosity. Truly, this issue has been put to rest.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I did research for months and months when I was shopping around for a stock.</div></div>
Clearly, I may no longer ask about this product. You have researched it for months. Your wise learnings are apparently too great and vast for the rest of us to learn, we must learn to settle for your claim of "months and months of research" and rest knowing that we need not know what you might have learned from that research.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you talk to people that own them, nobody has ever complained about the McMillan or Manners except for maybe the wait. On the other hand, I have heard of unhappy B&C owners.</div></div>
Your unassailable logic has humbled me, oh great one. I now quell any thoughts that having "heard of unhappy B&C owners" might beg additional information and will settle for your experience that "nobody has ever complained" about McMillan's or Manners' products.
Thank you kind sir, clearly there is simply no point in continuing this thread.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They just aren't on the same level as the McM/Manners stocks. </div></div>
Oh thank you, wise one, for that grain of truth. The detail which you have shared with us will forever sate my curiosity. Truly, this issue has been put to rest.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I did research for months and months when I was shopping around for a stock.</div></div>
Clearly, I may no longer ask about this product. You have researched it for months. Your wise learnings are apparently too great and vast for the rest of us to learn, we must learn to settle for your claim of "months and months of research" and rest knowing that we need not know what you might have learned from that research.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you talk to people that own them, nobody has ever complained about the McMillan or Manners except for maybe the wait. On the other hand, I have heard of unhappy B&C owners.</div></div>
Your unassailable logic has humbled me, oh great one. I now quell any thoughts that having "heard of unhappy B&C owners" might beg additional information and will settle for your experience that "nobody has ever complained" about McMillan's or Manners' products.
Thank you kind sir, clearly there is simply no point in continuing this thread.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
1. What bottom metal is that? (It appears to be Wyatts)
2. What mags does it take?
3. It appears to be a Stiller action, if I'm wrong what action is it?
4. What barrel?
5. If I remember right, this is a $3,500 dollar rifle, correct?
6. Can you help me with the math?
Stiller 850
Barrel 300
Trigger 200 (if its a Jewell)
Stock 400
Bottom Metal 240
Brake 150
Total= $2140
And those are MY prices, not dealer discounted prices. Now, if its a Stiller, the action doesn't need any work.
Which leaves me to wonder. $3500 for a rifle. $2140 for parts. $1360 for chambering, threading a muzzle, bedding a stock, and a coating of some sort? And my guess is that they are getting the parts at a reduced rate, so its probably closer to at least $1500.
The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
1. What bottom metal is that? (It appears to be Wyatts)
2. What mags does it take?
3. It appears to be a Stiller action, if I'm wrong what action is it?
4. What barrel?
5. If I remember right, this is a $3,500 dollar rifle, correct?
6. Can you help me with the math?
Stiller 850
Barrel 300
Trigger 200 (if its a Jewell)
Stock 400
Bottom Metal 240
Brake 150
Total= $2140
And those are MY prices, not dealer discounted prices. Now, if its a Stiller, the action doesn't need any work.
Which leaves me to wonder. $3500 for a rifle. $2140 for parts. $1360 for chambering, threading a muzzle, bedding a stock, and a coating of some sort? And my guess is that they are getting the parts at a reduced rate, so its probably closer to at least $1500.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
</div></div>
Did you note that besides the OP not having posted any real detail in thier profile, another low post count user has posted about the location, et al, of the OP?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
</div></div>
Did you note that besides the OP not having posted any real detail in thier profile, another low post count user has posted about the location, et al, of the OP?
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
I think when it comes to the stock, the reason they don't have a more loyal following is because, to my knowledge, no LE Agencies or Military Branches use them. They may be fine stocks. They just aren't "Proven". The M24 comes with an HS Precision Stock. The M40A1/3/5 come with a McMillan.
As far as the rifle... Looks OK. Certainly NOT something I'd pay $3500.00 for.
I think when it comes to the stock, the reason they don't have a more loyal following is because, to my knowledge, no LE Agencies or Military Branches use them. They may be fine stocks. They just aren't "Proven". The M24 comes with an HS Precision Stock. The M40A1/3/5 come with a McMillan.
As far as the rifle... Looks OK. Certainly NOT something I'd pay $3500.00 for.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
It seems in your attempt to discredit what I have said, you have forgotten to provide anything useful at all.
To address the problems/complaints I have gotten from people who own the B&C Tactical stock: The most important complaint was that the barrel channels are sometimes cut strange. When they torqued the barreled action down into the stock, the barrel didn't ride down the middle of the barrel channel, it was riding to the side and even touching in some cases. Other complaints were about the forearm of that stock.....rode bags funny, some people had bipod mounting issues and besides prone shooting, it was uncomfortable. With that out there, does that mean I would not buy one of these stocks? ABSOLUTELY NOT. If I wanted an adjustable stock and didn't want to break the bank, this would be my choice. The reason I called it entry level is because its one of the cheapest adj stocks on the market, its ready to go out of the box MOST of the time, but provides no custom options like McM/Manners.
I did research on a product to help me make a decision, Jesus Christ lets flame him because instead of spouting retarded bullshit, he presented an informed thought. I actually handled a rifle that was wearing a McMillan A5 and one that was in the B&C Tactical. I got behind and shot those rifles too. As much as I was wanting the B&C to come out even in feel, because I was actually pulling for it, it didn't. Sorry, the McM A5 just seemed to ride alot better and fall into place, where the other was more clunky and awkward to get into position.
I personally don't give a shit if you look into the issue further. I won't lose any sleep over it, but either nut up or shut up! Instead of picking a post apart and trying to flame somebody, why don't you tell somebody what you know. Instead of acting like a jacknut, you could have asked if I would elaborate on what I meant by what I said.
I surely hope this post calms the fire that sprung up deep inside you, but I seriously doubt it will.
Kelly
It seems in your attempt to discredit what I have said, you have forgotten to provide anything useful at all.
To address the problems/complaints I have gotten from people who own the B&C Tactical stock: The most important complaint was that the barrel channels are sometimes cut strange. When they torqued the barreled action down into the stock, the barrel didn't ride down the middle of the barrel channel, it was riding to the side and even touching in some cases. Other complaints were about the forearm of that stock.....rode bags funny, some people had bipod mounting issues and besides prone shooting, it was uncomfortable. With that out there, does that mean I would not buy one of these stocks? ABSOLUTELY NOT. If I wanted an adjustable stock and didn't want to break the bank, this would be my choice. The reason I called it entry level is because its one of the cheapest adj stocks on the market, its ready to go out of the box MOST of the time, but provides no custom options like McM/Manners.
I did research on a product to help me make a decision, Jesus Christ lets flame him because instead of spouting retarded bullshit, he presented an informed thought. I actually handled a rifle that was wearing a McMillan A5 and one that was in the B&C Tactical. I got behind and shot those rifles too. As much as I was wanting the B&C to come out even in feel, because I was actually pulling for it, it didn't. Sorry, the McM A5 just seemed to ride alot better and fall into place, where the other was more clunky and awkward to get into position.
I personally don't give a shit if you look into the issue further. I won't lose any sleep over it, but either nut up or shut up! Instead of picking a post apart and trying to flame somebody, why don't you tell somebody what you know. Instead of acting like a jacknut, you could have asked if I would elaborate on what I meant by what I said.
I surely hope this post calms the fire that sprung up deep inside you, but I seriously doubt it will.
Kelly
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbet83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice looking gun, but $3500 plus for a rifle with a B&C??? </div></div>
I have a $4700 custom rifle with a B&C coming.
Why down on B&C Medalist? I have never personally known anyone who had a problem with one, nor have I had one myself.
Is this just a case of forum hating or do have you specifically experienced something that tells you they are not an ok choice?
(There ARE other options besides manners and McM. I happen to like this particular style of the fore-end which neither Manners nor McM offer. They offer similar or something that can be made to work the same, but not this style.)
And... has anyone else notice that the OP's posts are all pretty much advertisements? Photos of guns. The couple posts that have text are basically spec sheets. New user. Low post count. Minimal profile.</div></div>
If you can't figure it out, when someone spends 3-4K on a custom rifle, they expect it to be in a stock that matches the quality of the other parts. I'm not shelling out that much cash for high quality parts just to settle on a stock. How much experience have you had with said B&C stock? What specifically did you like about it over a Manners or McMillan?
Nobody said it wasn't an "ok" choice as a stock, but is "ok" what your going for on a stick that costs almost 5 grand?
What research have you done to come to your decision exactly?
Kelly
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbet83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice looking gun, but $3500 plus for a rifle with a B&C??? </div></div>
I have a $4700 custom rifle with a B&C coming.
Why down on B&C Medalist? I have never personally known anyone who had a problem with one, nor have I had one myself.
Is this just a case of forum hating or do have you specifically experienced something that tells you they are not an ok choice?
(There ARE other options besides manners and McM. I happen to like this particular style of the fore-end which neither Manners nor McM offer. They offer similar or something that can be made to work the same, but not this style.)
And... has anyone else notice that the OP's posts are all pretty much advertisements? Photos of guns. The couple posts that have text are basically spec sheets. New user. Low post count. Minimal profile.</div></div>
If you can't figure it out, when someone spends 3-4K on a custom rifle, they expect it to be in a stock that matches the quality of the other parts. I'm not shelling out that much cash for high quality parts just to settle on a stock. How much experience have you had with said B&C stock? What specifically did you like about it over a Manners or McMillan?
Nobody said it wasn't an "ok" choice as a stock, but is "ok" what your going for on a stick that costs almost 5 grand?
What research have you done to come to your decision exactly?
Kelly
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Nobody said it wasn't an "ok" choice as a stock, but is "ok" what your going for on a stick that costs almost 5 grand?
What research have you done to come to your decision exactly?
Kelly </div></div>
1) B&C was my first choice, not a settling option. I liked the one I had before, it has the features I want, if "some guys" thought the "barrel channel was a little weird" is the worst of the problems you can cite for a Medalist A5, I am in pretty good shape.
2) What I liked over the Manners and McM is the Manners to me is like a prototype stock. Its hard to explain. Its one of those feeling and preference things. I dont like a glock. I will not own one. Are they great firearms? Probably. Men and women, including plenty of the officers I work with, go out every day with one on thier belt and depend on it to go bang when they are in a situation where god forbidthey have to pull the trigger to save thier own lives.
The ergonomics do not suit me. It feels bulky in my hand, does not match my palm shape, and therefore is a poor personal choice for me because it feels awkward off of the draw and I do not have a consistently aligned natural point of aim. With either my Sig P229 or my Commander, they fit my hand, and are the platforms I have chosen to carry.
My experience with the one manners I have held (admittedly not a fair trial by any means) was similar. It felt like an early version which, while very tough from the reports of the community, felt like it was still a work in progress to me.
McM are fine stocks. I have trouble finding one with the exact same combination of features.
Its a preference thing. I dont have a thing against McM stocks. Its just B&C were my first choice after looking at some options in a local gunsmiths shop in combination with years of range time myself, elsewhere with friends, and as part of the local club.
3) Again, I will end with this thought, I have yet to hear anything from anyone where real data has come to the fore. I hear you dont like B&C because of stuff you have heard or read. Which still sounds to me like forum wrath, not much in the way of hard data.
I understand better where you are coming from at this point so thank you for what you have presented in your most recent posts, it gives me something to look for and work to substantiate.
I would challenge you to consider how well you know these stories and what you have seen to back up the reports for B&C. If we are talking about some of thier other lines, sure, ill go with that. I have personally seen some B&Cs with flex, never in their flagship medalist line, however, and I have yet to see much that makes me understand the general bias against B&C's medalist line.
If its a preference thing, just say so. But make sure you have something to bring to the table if you are going to make the implication that they are an inferior product.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Nobody said it wasn't an "ok" choice as a stock, but is "ok" what your going for on a stick that costs almost 5 grand?
What research have you done to come to your decision exactly?
Kelly </div></div>
1) B&C was my first choice, not a settling option. I liked the one I had before, it has the features I want, if "some guys" thought the "barrel channel was a little weird" is the worst of the problems you can cite for a Medalist A5, I am in pretty good shape.
2) What I liked over the Manners and McM is the Manners to me is like a prototype stock. Its hard to explain. Its one of those feeling and preference things. I dont like a glock. I will not own one. Are they great firearms? Probably. Men and women, including plenty of the officers I work with, go out every day with one on thier belt and depend on it to go bang when they are in a situation where god forbidthey have to pull the trigger to save thier own lives.
The ergonomics do not suit me. It feels bulky in my hand, does not match my palm shape, and therefore is a poor personal choice for me because it feels awkward off of the draw and I do not have a consistently aligned natural point of aim. With either my Sig P229 or my Commander, they fit my hand, and are the platforms I have chosen to carry.
My experience with the one manners I have held (admittedly not a fair trial by any means) was similar. It felt like an early version which, while very tough from the reports of the community, felt like it was still a work in progress to me.
McM are fine stocks. I have trouble finding one with the exact same combination of features.
Its a preference thing. I dont have a thing against McM stocks. Its just B&C were my first choice after looking at some options in a local gunsmiths shop in combination with years of range time myself, elsewhere with friends, and as part of the local club.
3) Again, I will end with this thought, I have yet to hear anything from anyone where real data has come to the fore. I hear you dont like B&C because of stuff you have heard or read. Which still sounds to me like forum wrath, not much in the way of hard data.
I understand better where you are coming from at this point so thank you for what you have presented in your most recent posts, it gives me something to look for and work to substantiate.
I would challenge you to consider how well you know these stories and what you have seen to back up the reports for B&C. If we are talking about some of thier other lines, sure, ill go with that. I have personally seen some B&Cs with flex, never in their flagship medalist line, however, and I have yet to see much that makes me understand the general bias against B&C's medalist line.
If its a preference thing, just say so. But make sure you have something to bring to the table if you are going to make the implication that they are an inferior product.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
</div></div>
Did you note that besides the OP not having posted any real detail in thier profile, another low post count user has posted about the location, et al, of the OP? </div></div>
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't care about the validity of the OP. Good or bad.
IMHO, a $1500 chamber/thread muzzle/bed job/coating seems a little high.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
</div></div>
Did you note that besides the OP not having posted any real detail in thier profile, another low post count user has posted about the location, et al, of the OP? </div></div>
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't care about the validity of the OP. Good or bad.
IMHO, a $1500 chamber/thread muzzle/bed job/coating seems a little high.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Definitely and its even worse than $1500 when you consider the manufacturer/wholesaler prices that they are getting to build the thing in the first place.
The 'smiths out there with that kind of margin are few and far between, and usually when they are charging that kind of margin, its because there is a lot of extra machining, etc, they are covering labor on.
Definitely and its even worse than $1500 when you consider the manufacturer/wholesaler prices that they are getting to build the thing in the first place.
The 'smiths out there with that kind of margin are few and far between, and usually when they are charging that kind of margin, its because there is a lot of extra machining, etc, they are covering labor on.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
The barrel channel thing was a big deal when halfway down the channel the barrel started making contact with the stock.......that means you send it back and try another one, or you HAVE to bed it. One of the attractions to that particular stock is you don't have to bed it if you don't want to.
I only put a certain amount of "stock" into what I hear second hand, but I have had first hand experience and my opinions just differ from yours.
If I ever go and build a "budget" stick, you can bet your ass I will be going with the B&C Tactical adj model because there is nothing else in that price range that is even remotely as functional.
If I drop the cash on a custom build, you can also bet your ass it will ride in a custom stock....and that will be a Manners/McMillan A series.
There are more knowledgeable people than me who post on here including well respected custom smiths who will only use a Manners/McMillan. They base their rep, the rep of their livelihood and guarantee their work with one of these stocks as a foundation. That has to count for something.
Like I said before, I actually preferred the B&C to the other brands based on features, price and looks. However, function comes before all of that. I'm sure I remember reading some posts on here where someone stepped up to a Manners/McMillan from the B&C and it turned a really good stick into a GREAT stick. Something about easier to drive correctly and overall more consistent. But, that should be expected with a custom stock.
I hope you post pics of your rifle when you get it in, I'd really like to see it......(not being sarcastic) and I'd like to know if you have any issues with that stock after you spend some time behind it. Hopefully not.
Kelly
The barrel channel thing was a big deal when halfway down the channel the barrel started making contact with the stock.......that means you send it back and try another one, or you HAVE to bed it. One of the attractions to that particular stock is you don't have to bed it if you don't want to.
I only put a certain amount of "stock" into what I hear second hand, but I have had first hand experience and my opinions just differ from yours.
If I ever go and build a "budget" stick, you can bet your ass I will be going with the B&C Tactical adj model because there is nothing else in that price range that is even remotely as functional.
If I drop the cash on a custom build, you can also bet your ass it will ride in a custom stock....and that will be a Manners/McMillan A series.
There are more knowledgeable people than me who post on here including well respected custom smiths who will only use a Manners/McMillan. They base their rep, the rep of their livelihood and guarantee their work with one of these stocks as a foundation. That has to count for something.
Like I said before, I actually preferred the B&C to the other brands based on features, price and looks. However, function comes before all of that. I'm sure I remember reading some posts on here where someone stepped up to a Manners/McMillan from the B&C and it turned a really good stick into a GREAT stick. Something about easier to drive correctly and overall more consistent. But, that should be expected with a custom stock.
I hope you post pics of your rifle when you get it in, I'd really like to see it......(not being sarcastic) and I'd like to know if you have any issues with that stock after you spend some time behind it. Hopefully not.
Kelly
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
There's a reason why McMillan, Manners, Krieger, Bartlien etc., etc., etc. have long lead times.
It's not because they're the most affordable either.
As far as stocks go, McMillan or Manners is the only way to go IMHO.
There's a reason why McMillan, Manners, Krieger, Bartlien etc., etc., etc. have long lead times.
It's not because they're the most affordable either.
As far as stocks go, McMillan or Manners is the only way to go IMHO.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
1. What bottom metal is that? (It appears to be Wyatts)
2. What mags does it take?
3. It appears to be a Stiller action, if I'm wrong what action is it?
4. What barrel?
5. If I remember right, this is a $3,500 dollar rifle, correct?
6. Can you help me with the math?
Stiller 850
Barrel 300
Trigger 200 (if its a Jewell)
Stock 400
Bottom Metal 240
Brake 150
Total= $2140
And those are MY prices, not dealer discounted prices. Now, if its a Stiller, the action doesn't need any work.
Which leaves me to wonder. $3500 for a rifle. $2140 for parts. $1360 for chambering, threading a muzzle, bedding a stock, and a coating of some sort? And my guess is that they are getting the parts at a reduced rate, so its probably closer to at least $1500. </div></div>
he didn't build the rifle.......it's a Les Baer built rifle
http://www.lesbaer.com/boltaction.html
"NEW! LBC TACTICAL BOLT ACTION RIFLES
308 Winchester, 260 Remington, .243 Winchester
$3560.00"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
1. What bottom metal is that? (It appears to be Wyatts)
2. What mags does it take?
3. It appears to be a Stiller action, if I'm wrong what action is it?
4. What barrel?
5. If I remember right, this is a $3,500 dollar rifle, correct?
6. Can you help me with the math?
Stiller 850
Barrel 300
Trigger 200 (if its a Jewell)
Stock 400
Bottom Metal 240
Brake 150
Total= $2140
And those are MY prices, not dealer discounted prices. Now, if its a Stiller, the action doesn't need any work.
Which leaves me to wonder. $3500 for a rifle. $2140 for parts. $1360 for chambering, threading a muzzle, bedding a stock, and a coating of some sort? And my guess is that they are getting the parts at a reduced rate, so its probably closer to at least $1500. </div></div>
he didn't build the rifle.......it's a Les Baer built rifle
http://www.lesbaer.com/boltaction.html
"NEW! LBC TACTICAL BOLT ACTION RIFLES
308 Winchester, 260 Remington, .243 Winchester
$3560.00"
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as stocks go, McMillan or Manners is the only way to go IMHO. </div></div>
Excellent. From the guy who does the awesome work of LA precision, someone who I greatly respect and admire the work of.
Just one problem.
Why?
See here is the thing, I really am not trying to be a dick here. I have a build going with a B&C. As Kelly and I have been talking about in PMs, when I went through the featuresets of the McM and the manners options I always felt like I was giving something up to choose one of them whereas I like the way this particular B&C stock is set.
BUT, there is a difference between dumping a $600 off the line rifle in a B&C and building a custom rifle on top of one.
The only option from Manners which is close is the T4A. My concern there is the extra palm swell doesnt seem to be there and the grip area behind the bedding for the reciever appears quite angular. As its damn near impossible to get behind one without ordering one yourself, its hard to tell.
McMillan offers the A4. I am not a huge fan of saddle cheek pieces, and same thing with the angular drop of the grip. LOP would have to be set at order time which would result in a more durable platform.
So if someone can demonstrate that B&C is not the way to go, I still have time to modify my build before it goes to assembly. Hence my assiduous ("stubborn") request for details that would justify the trouble and so on of making the change in my build order.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as stocks go, McMillan or Manners is the only way to go IMHO. </div></div>
Excellent. From the guy who does the awesome work of LA precision, someone who I greatly respect and admire the work of.
Just one problem.
Why?
See here is the thing, I really am not trying to be a dick here. I have a build going with a B&C. As Kelly and I have been talking about in PMs, when I went through the featuresets of the McM and the manners options I always felt like I was giving something up to choose one of them whereas I like the way this particular B&C stock is set.
BUT, there is a difference between dumping a $600 off the line rifle in a B&C and building a custom rifle on top of one.
The only option from Manners which is close is the T4A. My concern there is the extra palm swell doesnt seem to be there and the grip area behind the bedding for the reciever appears quite angular. As its damn near impossible to get behind one without ordering one yourself, its hard to tell.
McMillan offers the A4. I am not a huge fan of saddle cheek pieces, and same thing with the angular drop of the grip. LOP would have to be set at order time which would result in a more durable platform.
So if someone can demonstrate that B&C is not the way to go, I still have time to modify my build before it goes to assembly. Hence my assiduous ("stubborn") request for details that would justify the trouble and so on of making the change in my build order.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Although I use Manners stocks exclusively on all of my packages but one, and occasional builds with McMillan stocks, there is a place for the B&C stocks.
I haven't built on a lot of them, and I'll always bed the ones I do build on, but there's a certain appeal to the stock within certain types of builds. I can say with a pretty high degree of confidence that I'll never offer a package using a B&C stock, but I don't believe there are quality issues on the later of the B&C offerings. I also have to hand it to them for building a stock and staying within a certain price point.
I'm certainly not surprised that LBC uses the B&C, and it wouldn't be my choice, but if he's buying the quantities that I think he's buying, he's not paying much for them. In this regard, he's no different than the other OEM's that build for as little as possible and sell for as much as possible.
The other side of this coin is, can Manners or McMillan provide LBC with the quantities he needs as quickly as he needs them? No, and I'm glad they can't. I'm not dis-satisfied at all with my lead-times from Manners, but it would be worse if..............
Although I use Manners stocks exclusively on all of my packages but one, and occasional builds with McMillan stocks, there is a place for the B&C stocks.
I haven't built on a lot of them, and I'll always bed the ones I do build on, but there's a certain appeal to the stock within certain types of builds. I can say with a pretty high degree of confidence that I'll never offer a package using a B&C stock, but I don't believe there are quality issues on the later of the B&C offerings. I also have to hand it to them for building a stock and staying within a certain price point.
I'm certainly not surprised that LBC uses the B&C, and it wouldn't be my choice, but if he's buying the quantities that I think he's buying, he's not paying much for them. In this regard, he's no different than the other OEM's that build for as little as possible and sell for as much as possible.
The other side of this coin is, can Manners or McMillan provide LBC with the quantities he needs as quickly as he needs them? No, and I'm glad they can't. I'm not dis-satisfied at all with my lead-times from Manners, but it would be worse if..............
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Thanks Mike, you brought up a point that I forgot to mention. Those B&C stocks that had the bedding block mounted a tad off, or had the screwed up barrel channel were older and I read they have tightened up their QC and addressed those specific issues.
That being said, if one could order the B&C Tactical stock with color choices, not just what they offer, accessory rails, flush cups etc for just a tad bit more coin, they wouldn't be able to keep up with orders either. They are the perfect stock for someone wanting a drop in solid platform for less than $600-700 bucks and a long wait. But the whole point is to provide an adjustable, stable stock at a good price and not get into the custom stock market.
Kelly
Thanks Mike, you brought up a point that I forgot to mention. Those B&C stocks that had the bedding block mounted a tad off, or had the screwed up barrel channel were older and I read they have tightened up their QC and addressed those specific issues.
That being said, if one could order the B&C Tactical stock with color choices, not just what they offer, accessory rails, flush cups etc for just a tad bit more coin, they wouldn't be able to keep up with orders either. They are the perfect stock for someone wanting a drop in solid platform for less than $600-700 bucks and a long wait. But the whole point is to provide an adjustable, stable stock at a good price and not get into the custom stock market.
Kelly
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
I think that the problem with this offering is that they are charging far more than a custom builder would for the rifle and you don't have the option to customize it. Some like Manners, some like McMillan, some like B&C. If I were to buy it, I would want it on a McMillan. I would like the barrel shorter and I would like some other small tweaks.
My understanding with Baer is that you get what you get. Why pay $4,500 for a gun that is not going to have every detail the way that I want it? This is my problem with it. I am sure that it is accurate and well-built, but it is not the components I would have selected... or that a lot of people on this forum would have selected and I think that is the beef with it.
I think that the problem with this offering is that they are charging far more than a custom builder would for the rifle and you don't have the option to customize it. Some like Manners, some like McMillan, some like B&C. If I were to buy it, I would want it on a McMillan. I would like the barrel shorter and I would like some other small tweaks.
My understanding with Baer is that you get what you get. Why pay $4,500 for a gun that is not going to have every detail the way that I want it? This is my problem with it. I am sure that it is accurate and well-built, but it is not the components I would have selected... or that a lot of people on this forum would have selected and I think that is the beef with it.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that the problem with this offering is that they are charging far more than a custom builder would for the rifle and you don't have the option to customize it. Some like Manners, some like McMillan, some like B&C. If I were to buy it, I would want it on a McMillan. I would like the barrel shorter and I would like some other small tweaks.
My understanding with Baer is that you get what you get. Why pay $4,500 for a gun that is not going to have every detail the way that I want it? This is my problem with it. I am sure that it is accurate and well-built, but it is not the components I would have selected... or that a lot of people on this forum would have selected and I think that is the beef with it. </div></div>
Very good points indeed....I don't think the "You can have it anyway you want it as long as you take it the way we do it" approach is very wise on the part of LBC. It's a very basic build for the price and it leaves the end user with investing more money to make it the way he wants it. There's also nothing spectacular about the "accuracy guarantee."
There's a minimalistic approach invested in each rifle and it's also poorly named. A "RECON" typically has a much shorter barrel, provisions for NV/Laser equipment, suppressor, etc and this rifle is being marketed toward the LE environment. Very interesting....
The AR approach to building bolt guns has never worked that I'm aware of, but this is just my opinion....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that the problem with this offering is that they are charging far more than a custom builder would for the rifle and you don't have the option to customize it. Some like Manners, some like McMillan, some like B&C. If I were to buy it, I would want it on a McMillan. I would like the barrel shorter and I would like some other small tweaks.
My understanding with Baer is that you get what you get. Why pay $4,500 for a gun that is not going to have every detail the way that I want it? This is my problem with it. I am sure that it is accurate and well-built, but it is not the components I would have selected... or that a lot of people on this forum would have selected and I think that is the beef with it. </div></div>
Very good points indeed....I don't think the "You can have it anyway you want it as long as you take it the way we do it" approach is very wise on the part of LBC. It's a very basic build for the price and it leaves the end user with investing more money to make it the way he wants it. There's also nothing spectacular about the "accuracy guarantee."
There's a minimalistic approach invested in each rifle and it's also poorly named. A "RECON" typically has a much shorter barrel, provisions for NV/Laser equipment, suppressor, etc and this rifle is being marketed toward the LE environment. Very interesting....
The AR approach to building bolt guns has never worked that I'm aware of, but this is just my opinion....
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as stocks go, McMillan or Manners is the only way to go IMHO. </div></div>
Excellent. From the guy who does the awesome work of LA precision, someone who I greatly respect and admire the work of.
Just one problem.
Why?</div></div>
In the past 25+ years I've had the opportunity to handle and own numerous stocks and rifles. At the end of the day it boils down to the owner/client and their desires.
I can tell you this without fail and with all certainty that any stock that comes with an aluminum bedding block also comes with built in stress and a lot of it. Barrel channels are seldom if ever centered or deep enough. The match between barrel contour and barrel inlet isn’t even close and with two of these manufacturers, the exterior of the stock is way too soft and pieces of them chip or break off way too easy.
These are typically mass produced products made to fit a multitude of options.
My choices and recommendations are based on my own personal observations and experiences. McMillan will always be my #1 go to stock just like Krieger/Bartlien will be for barrels, Surgeon for DBM's, AI for magazines, NF for scope rails/rings and Jewell for triggers.
When I deliver a rifle to a client I know it was built with the best components I can offer and was assembled with the same level of confidence.
I cant see myself offering or recommending a rifle to someone that uses a stock with an aluminum bedding block whether it was bedded or not. Not saying it's a bad thing, it's just not my thing.
Did I mention McMillan Rifle Stocks yet...........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as stocks go, McMillan or Manners is the only way to go IMHO. </div></div>
Excellent. From the guy who does the awesome work of LA precision, someone who I greatly respect and admire the work of.
Just one problem.
Why?</div></div>
In the past 25+ years I've had the opportunity to handle and own numerous stocks and rifles. At the end of the day it boils down to the owner/client and their desires.
I can tell you this without fail and with all certainty that any stock that comes with an aluminum bedding block also comes with built in stress and a lot of it. Barrel channels are seldom if ever centered or deep enough. The match between barrel contour and barrel inlet isn’t even close and with two of these manufacturers, the exterior of the stock is way too soft and pieces of them chip or break off way too easy.
These are typically mass produced products made to fit a multitude of options.
My choices and recommendations are based on my own personal observations and experiences. McMillan will always be my #1 go to stock just like Krieger/Bartlien will be for barrels, Surgeon for DBM's, AI for magazines, NF for scope rails/rings and Jewell for triggers.
When I deliver a rifle to a client I know it was built with the best components I can offer and was assembled with the same level of confidence.
I cant see myself offering or recommending a rifle to someone that uses a stock with an aluminum bedding block whether it was bedded or not. Not saying it's a bad thing, it's just not my thing.
Did I mention McMillan Rifle Stocks yet...........
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Appreciate the thought behind the recommendation. Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.
Appreciate the thought behind the recommendation. Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
1. What bottom metal is that? (It appears to be Wyatts)
2. What mags does it take?
3. It appears to be a Stiller action, if I'm wrong what action is it?
4. What barrel?
5. If I remember right, this is a $3,500 dollar rifle, correct?
6. Can you help me with the math?
Stiller 850
Barrel 300
Trigger 200 (if its a Jewell)
Stock 400
Bottom Metal 240
Brake 150
Total= $2140
And those are MY prices, not dealer discounted prices. Now, if its a Stiller, the action doesn't need any work.
Which leaves me to wonder. $3500 for a rifle. $2140 for parts. $1360 for chambering, threading a muzzle, bedding a stock, and a coating of some sort? And my guess is that they are getting the parts at a reduced rate, so its probably closer to at least $1500. </div></div>
he didn't build the rifle.......it's a Les Baer built rifle
http://www.lesbaer.com/boltaction.html
"NEW! LBC TACTICAL BOLT ACTION RIFLES
308 Winchester, 260 Remington, .243 Winchester
$3560.00"
</div></div>
Yeah, I know. Thats been said from the beginning. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I said the OP built it.
Again, what is so great about a Les Baer chamber/crown/thread/coat/bed job? Is it really worth $1,500 dollars?
Take a look at STR. They have a build in the classifieds with a McMillan Stock, Badger M5 bottom metal, a Kreiger barrel, Jewell trigger, and a limited edition Stiller octagon action with built in rail. A WAY better list of components and its only 250 dollars more.
I'd be willing to bet that LB gets a reduced rate on all the components too. I'm saying that is a ridiculous price for some smith work.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The low post count OP aside, I have a couple questions.
1. What bottom metal is that? (It appears to be Wyatts)
2. What mags does it take?
3. It appears to be a Stiller action, if I'm wrong what action is it?
4. What barrel?
5. If I remember right, this is a $3,500 dollar rifle, correct?
6. Can you help me with the math?
Stiller 850
Barrel 300
Trigger 200 (if its a Jewell)
Stock 400
Bottom Metal 240
Brake 150
Total= $2140
And those are MY prices, not dealer discounted prices. Now, if its a Stiller, the action doesn't need any work.
Which leaves me to wonder. $3500 for a rifle. $2140 for parts. $1360 for chambering, threading a muzzle, bedding a stock, and a coating of some sort? And my guess is that they are getting the parts at a reduced rate, so its probably closer to at least $1500. </div></div>
he didn't build the rifle.......it's a Les Baer built rifle
http://www.lesbaer.com/boltaction.html
"NEW! LBC TACTICAL BOLT ACTION RIFLES
308 Winchester, 260 Remington, .243 Winchester
$3560.00"
</div></div>
Yeah, I know. Thats been said from the beginning. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I said the OP built it.
Again, what is so great about a Les Baer chamber/crown/thread/coat/bed job? Is it really worth $1,500 dollars?
Take a look at STR. They have a build in the classifieds with a McMillan Stock, Badger M5 bottom metal, a Kreiger barrel, Jewell trigger, and a limited edition Stiller octagon action with built in rail. A WAY better list of components and its only 250 dollars more.
I'd be willing to bet that LB gets a reduced rate on all the components too. I'm saying that is a ridiculous price for some smith work.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
You are buying the name. Most of us here will know that you can get a comparable or better package by any of the gunsmiths on the Hide for close to the same price point.
You are buying the name. Most of us here will know that you can get a comparable or better package by any of the gunsmiths on the Hide for close to the same price point.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are buying the name.</div></div>
Actually, I heard gossip that the extra cost is due to the "bertrillium zantitium" coating they spray on the rifle. I'm pretty sure that is the same thing they put on the lenses of deadly0311's scopes of choice.
Josh
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are buying the name.</div></div>
Actually, I heard gossip that the extra cost is due to the "bertrillium zantitium" coating they spray on the rifle. I'm pretty sure that is the same thing they put on the lenses of deadly0311's scopes of choice.
Josh
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, I heard gossip that the extra cost is due to the "bertrillium zantitium" coating they spray on the rifle.</div></div>
This company claims they coat firearms for LB Special Coating
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, I heard gossip that the extra cost is due to the "bertrillium zantitium" coating they spray on the rifle.</div></div>
This company claims they coat firearms for LB Special Coating
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, I heard gossip that the extra cost is due to the "bertrillium zantitium" coating they spray on the rifle.</div></div>
This company claims they coat firearms for LB Special Coating </div></div>
That would be consistent with the way LB is advertising their finish as Dupont Teflon-S.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, I heard gossip that the extra cost is due to the "bertrillium zantitium" coating they spray on the rifle.</div></div>
This company claims they coat firearms for LB Special Coating </div></div>
That would be consistent with the way LB is advertising their finish as Dupont Teflon-S.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That would be consistent with the way LB is advertising their finish as Dupont Teflon-S. </div></div>
Thats the way I see it as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That would be consistent with the way LB is advertising their finish as Dupont Teflon-S. </div></div>
Thats the way I see it as well.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a reason why McMillan, Manners, Krieger, Bartlien etc., etc., etc. have long lead times.
It's not because they're the most affordable either.
As far as stocks go, McMillan or Manners is the only way to go IMHO. </div></div>
some folks just gottah trip on their dicks and go float an boat to realize you can't believe everything you see on the internet........foam......its for window-lickers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a reason why McMillan, Manners, Krieger, Bartlien etc., etc., etc. have long lead times.
It's not because they're the most affordable either.
As far as stocks go, McMillan or Manners is the only way to go IMHO. </div></div>
some folks just gottah trip on their dicks and go float an boat to realize you can't believe everything you see on the internet........foam......its for window-lickers
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Anybody had any experience with that coating? Looks a tad too shiny on that particular rifle for my tastes.
Kelly
Anybody had any experience with that coating? Looks a tad too shiny on that particular rifle for my tastes.
Kelly
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Wow! Another LB bashing thread, who would a ever thunk it. Good thing it wasn't toped with a Leupy or my f'n laptop probably would have just blown up from all the negative vibes!
Anyone here a member of the NRA? Ya know, that organization that gives you a subscription to American Rifleman free? Anyway, like I said in another thread, AR's field editor and he's a pretty salty gunman, tested this rifle in this months edition. He said it was the most accurate 308 bolt gun he'd ever tested. Here's a quote from the first page:
"The Les Baer Custom Tactical Recon, fitted with a Nightforce 5.5-22X 56 mm NXS scope, turned in an average of 0.57" for five consecutive, five-shot groups with six different .308 Win. factory loadings"
No, I'm not a smith or even close and probably not even a very good shot compared to all these .5 moa all day long shooters on this site but that grouping sounds pretty good to me. Especially since its from a company putting junk on its equipment like a stock who's bedding block is bound up like a truck spring and has a barrel riding along its channel. Come on people.
I agree, the rifle's too high priced as are most and I'm sure I'll never own one or want to. That coming from a man who cant afford anything but factory rifles and I have to save months for them. I'm just sayin, "the proofs in the puddin".
okie
Wow! Another LB bashing thread, who would a ever thunk it. Good thing it wasn't toped with a Leupy or my f'n laptop probably would have just blown up from all the negative vibes!
Anyone here a member of the NRA? Ya know, that organization that gives you a subscription to American Rifleman free? Anyway, like I said in another thread, AR's field editor and he's a pretty salty gunman, tested this rifle in this months edition. He said it was the most accurate 308 bolt gun he'd ever tested. Here's a quote from the first page:
"The Les Baer Custom Tactical Recon, fitted with a Nightforce 5.5-22X 56 mm NXS scope, turned in an average of 0.57" for five consecutive, five-shot groups with six different .308 Win. factory loadings"
No, I'm not a smith or even close and probably not even a very good shot compared to all these .5 moa all day long shooters on this site but that grouping sounds pretty good to me. Especially since its from a company putting junk on its equipment like a stock who's bedding block is bound up like a truck spring and has a barrel riding along its channel. Come on people.
I agree, the rifle's too high priced as are most and I'm sure I'll never own one or want to. That coming from a man who cant afford anything but factory rifles and I have to save months for them. I'm just sayin, "the proofs in the puddin".
okie
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Do you really think they are going to give a Les Baer rifle a unfavorable review when they advertise with the magazine?
Do you really think they are going to give a Les Baer rifle a unfavorable review when they advertise with the magazine?
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
Okie,
I understand where you're coming from and I don't think the real intent is to bash LBC, but LBC makes themselves a pretty good target for skepticism.
First off, the subscription isn't free; it's paid for through the membership dues.
Secondly, that article has one purpose; to sell the rifle to people that would believe that they really can't live without it. I have to wonder how many rifles that author has shot where he said, "This is the most accurate rifle I've ever shot." Fact of the matter is, there's nothing special about it at all. It's best components are mediocre at best and the LBC Black Magic is no different than anyone else's Black Magic....Except for mine of course
Okie,
I understand where you're coming from and I don't think the real intent is to bash LBC, but LBC makes themselves a pretty good target for skepticism.
First off, the subscription isn't free; it's paid for through the membership dues.
Secondly, that article has one purpose; to sell the rifle to people that would believe that they really can't live without it. I have to wonder how many rifles that author has shot where he said, "This is the most accurate rifle I've ever shot." Fact of the matter is, there's nothing special about it at all. It's best components are mediocre at best and the LBC Black Magic is no different than anyone else's Black Magic....Except for mine of course
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....Except for mine of course
</div></div>
And mine
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....Except for mine of course
And mine
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow! Another LB bashing thread, who would a ever thunk it. Good thing it wasn't toped with a Leupy or my f'n laptop probably would have just blown up from all the negative vibes!
Anyone here a member of the NRA? Ya know, that organization that gives you a subscription to American Rifleman free? Anyway, like I said in another thread, AR's field editor and he's a pretty salty gunman, tested this rifle in this months edition. He said it was the most accurate 308 bolt gun he'd ever tested. Here's a quote from the first page:
"The Les Baer Custom Tactical Recon, fitted with a Nightforce 5.5-22X 56 mm NXS scope, turned in an average of 0.57" for five consecutive, five-shot groups with six different .308 Win. factory loadings"
No, I'm not a smith or even close and probably not even a very good shot compared to all these .5 moa all day long shooters on this site but that grouping sounds pretty good to me. Especially since its from a company putting junk on its equipment like a stock who's bedding block is bound up like a truck spring and has a barrel riding along its channel. Come on people.
I agree, the rifle's too high priced as are most and I'm sure I'll never own one or want to. That coming from a man who cant afford anything but factory rifles and I have to save months for them. I'm just sayin, "the proofs in the puddin".
okie</div></div>
First off, nobody has bashed anything yet. Some have questioned the price, and why they used a particular piece of equipment but there was never any bashing.
Secondly acting like a stressed stock, or a stock where the barrel touches the side of the barrel channel, isn't a big deal is just absurd. Those are exactly the kind of things you don't want on a custom rifle or an off the shelf rifle. We never said that LB would send out a rifle with a crooked barrel channel or that was stressed all to shit. There HAVE been instances where that particular stock has had a few QC problems, and like I said in a previous post I read somewhere where those problems have been addressed at the factory.
I hope this is the most accurate, dependable rifle ever built by man, at least we know not to buy from anybody else. Nowhere did anybody said they won't shoot, its never been an issue.
You should read the posts a couple times to make sure you get the general idea of what they are trying to say before you unleash your fingers on the keyboard and make yourself seem remedial. Aside from the choice of stock, and the asking price of the rifle, nothing bad has been said, PERIOD.
Since we're all picking things to pieces, how much development and new innovations do you reckon there has been because of observation, questioning, and hands on testing of things by the end user? You think this particular rifle would even exist if the buyers didn't bitch and complain and suggest new ways to produce a more precise firearm? At least we posted useful information based on experience in a tactful, constructive manner. What have you done lately?
Before I forget: We all know what the accuracy guarantee and the range report is.......I've yet to see one of these rifles pop up with a range report from a fellow hide member. I guess this is a case of the proof is in the puddin, nobody has taken a bite of it yet.
Kelly
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow! Another LB bashing thread, who would a ever thunk it. Good thing it wasn't toped with a Leupy or my f'n laptop probably would have just blown up from all the negative vibes!
Anyone here a member of the NRA? Ya know, that organization that gives you a subscription to American Rifleman free? Anyway, like I said in another thread, AR's field editor and he's a pretty salty gunman, tested this rifle in this months edition. He said it was the most accurate 308 bolt gun he'd ever tested. Here's a quote from the first page:
"The Les Baer Custom Tactical Recon, fitted with a Nightforce 5.5-22X 56 mm NXS scope, turned in an average of 0.57" for five consecutive, five-shot groups with six different .308 Win. factory loadings"
No, I'm not a smith or even close and probably not even a very good shot compared to all these .5 moa all day long shooters on this site but that grouping sounds pretty good to me. Especially since its from a company putting junk on its equipment like a stock who's bedding block is bound up like a truck spring and has a barrel riding along its channel. Come on people.
I agree, the rifle's too high priced as are most and I'm sure I'll never own one or want to. That coming from a man who cant afford anything but factory rifles and I have to save months for them. I'm just sayin, "the proofs in the puddin".
okie</div></div>
First off, nobody has bashed anything yet. Some have questioned the price, and why they used a particular piece of equipment but there was never any bashing.
Secondly acting like a stressed stock, or a stock where the barrel touches the side of the barrel channel, isn't a big deal is just absurd. Those are exactly the kind of things you don't want on a custom rifle or an off the shelf rifle. We never said that LB would send out a rifle with a crooked barrel channel or that was stressed all to shit. There HAVE been instances where that particular stock has had a few QC problems, and like I said in a previous post I read somewhere where those problems have been addressed at the factory.
I hope this is the most accurate, dependable rifle ever built by man, at least we know not to buy from anybody else. Nowhere did anybody said they won't shoot, its never been an issue.
You should read the posts a couple times to make sure you get the general idea of what they are trying to say before you unleash your fingers on the keyboard and make yourself seem remedial. Aside from the choice of stock, and the asking price of the rifle, nothing bad has been said, PERIOD.
Since we're all picking things to pieces, how much development and new innovations do you reckon there has been because of observation, questioning, and hands on testing of things by the end user? You think this particular rifle would even exist if the buyers didn't bitch and complain and suggest new ways to produce a more precise firearm? At least we posted useful information based on experience in a tactful, constructive manner. What have you done lately?
Before I forget: We all know what the accuracy guarantee and the range report is.......I've yet to see one of these rifles pop up with a range report from a fellow hide member. I guess this is a case of the proof is in the puddin, nobody has taken a bite of it yet.
Kelly
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"The Les Baer Custom Tactical Recon, fitted with a Nightforce 5.5-22X 56 mm NXS scope, turned in an average of 0.57" for five consecutive, five-shot groups with six different .308 Win. factory loadings"
</div></div>
Did you seriously counter a discussion of a new offering's dubious price point and build quality with a quote from a gun magazine?
You know, because they aren't filled every month with articles singing the praises of the latest?
Seriously, have you seen a "feature" or "cover" review in American Riflemen that was hard on the firearm that was provided to them?
Also, I have nothing bad to say about this particular rifle or LBC in general. Would I personally pay that much for what is on offer: a low-option package whose components cost don't get anywhere near the asking price? Probably not, but to each their own.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"The Les Baer Custom Tactical Recon, fitted with a Nightforce 5.5-22X 56 mm NXS scope, turned in an average of 0.57" for five consecutive, five-shot groups with six different .308 Win. factory loadings"
</div></div>
Did you seriously counter a discussion of a new offering's dubious price point and build quality with a quote from a gun magazine?
You know, because they aren't filled every month with articles singing the praises of the latest?
Seriously, have you seen a "feature" or "cover" review in American Riflemen that was hard on the firearm that was provided to them?
Also, I have nothing bad to say about this particular rifle or LBC in general. Would I personally pay that much for what is on offer: a low-option package whose components cost don't get anywhere near the asking price? Probably not, but to each their own.
Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon
"Secondly acting like a stressed stock, or a stock where the
barrel touches the side of the barrel channel, isn't a big deal is just absurd."
Are you shittin me? Could you really not detect any sarcasm in my post? I know it dosn't come through sometimes but damn.... I've been shooting rifles for 40+ years, I know what a bad stock does to it performance. My sarcasm was intended to mean that I doubt the stock is as bad as was represented earlier in this thread. And yes, I have and do own both the adj. and non adj. version of this stock so I am familiar with them.
BTW, yes, when you say things like, "your just buying the name", "any gunsmith could build one better for the same price", yadda yadda, it may all be true but its still bashing. But by all means bash away, I dont care. I was just trying to make a little joke, thus the little smiley thingy at the end of that statement. Damn and I thought I wasn't very internet savy (sarcasm, sarcasm).
If you want to know what I've done here lately based on experience, go back and look it up, I dont feel like catching you up.
"Did you seriously counter a discussion of a new offering's dubious price point and build quality with a quote from a gun magazine?"
Did you not even read my post, if so, read the last paragraph again. I completely agree it is priced too high and I said so. I also said I wont own one and dont care to. Could care less if its any good or not. And do you honestly think that this web site isn't filled every day with "praises of the lastest and greatest"? Why should I believe it anymore than the most resent gun rag, its the same damn thing. No, I dont know Stanton Wormley (the author) but I think he's a pretty well known informational writer. I certainly have no reason to suspect him of misleading anyone in his writing, not any more than I would you or anyone else. He has at least laid hands on and tested the rifle so for that reason alone, I'll take his word over those who havn't.
okie
"Secondly acting like a stressed stock, or a stock where the
barrel touches the side of the barrel channel, isn't a big deal is just absurd."
Are you shittin me? Could you really not detect any sarcasm in my post? I know it dosn't come through sometimes but damn.... I've been shooting rifles for 40+ years, I know what a bad stock does to it performance. My sarcasm was intended to mean that I doubt the stock is as bad as was represented earlier in this thread. And yes, I have and do own both the adj. and non adj. version of this stock so I am familiar with them.
BTW, yes, when you say things like, "your just buying the name", "any gunsmith could build one better for the same price", yadda yadda, it may all be true but its still bashing. But by all means bash away, I dont care. I was just trying to make a little joke, thus the little smiley thingy at the end of that statement. Damn and I thought I wasn't very internet savy (sarcasm, sarcasm).
If you want to know what I've done here lately based on experience, go back and look it up, I dont feel like catching you up.
"Did you seriously counter a discussion of a new offering's dubious price point and build quality with a quote from a gun magazine?"
Did you not even read my post, if so, read the last paragraph again. I completely agree it is priced too high and I said so. I also said I wont own one and dont care to. Could care less if its any good or not. And do you honestly think that this web site isn't filled every day with "praises of the lastest and greatest"? Why should I believe it anymore than the most resent gun rag, its the same damn thing. No, I dont know Stanton Wormley (the author) but I think he's a pretty well known informational writer. I certainly have no reason to suspect him of misleading anyone in his writing, not any more than I would you or anyone else. He has at least laid hands on and tested the rifle so for that reason alone, I'll take his word over those who havn't.
okie
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