Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

[kbrady]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My sarcasm was intended to mean that I doubt the stock is as bad as was represented earlier in this thread. And yes, I have and do own both the adj. and non adj. version of this stock so I am familiar with them.</div></div>

I'm glad you own both. I have seen multiple examples of the adjustable model where the block was off center and or the barrel channel was out of whack. There was a few posts on the Hide about people getting them in just to notice how out of whack they were. Doubt all you want, this model stock HAD issues that would not be acceptable on a regular build, much less a high dollar custom build.

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My sarcasm was intended to mean that I doubt the stock is as bad as was represented earlier in this thread.</div></div>

Stress is stress. You have an extremely well respected gunsmith along with others who have dealt with aluminum bedding blocks telling you it will induce stress. Loosen the front action screw with an indicator on top of the forend. I bet you it moves quite a bit more than one of the premium stock brands.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, yes, when you say things like, "your just buying the name", "any gunsmith could build one better for the same price", yadda yadda, it may all be true but its still bashing.</div></div>

The truth treads a fine line with bashing. The majority in this thread happens to be the former.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But by all means bash away, I dont care.</div></div>

Obviously you do.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I completely agree it is priced too high and I said so. I also said I wont own one and dont care to.</div></div>

Glad everyone agrees on that. I would prefer better components for that price myself but some people will buy it for the prestige.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why should I believe it anymore than the most resent gun rag, its the same damn thing. No, I dont know Stanton Wormley (the author) but I think he's a pretty well known informational writer. I certainly have no reason to suspect him of misleading anyone in his writing, not any more than I would you or anyone else. He has at least laid hands on and tested the rifle so for that reason alone, I'll take his word over those who havn't.</div></div>

You are a gun magazine editor's dream. Endorsements and advertisements cloud writing for many publications. This may or may not be an exception but I take what they say in any gun magazine with a 0.1 grain of salt. Unless it has nothing to do with a review. Not saying anyone has to believe what they read here...the gun rags just have a bit more reason to stretch the benefits and minimize the true shortcomings.

Josh

 

[savage110]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a $4700 custom rifle with a B&C coming. </div></div>
Just a question who charged you 4700$ for a custom build with a BC on it? That alot of coin for a 300$ stock.
I figure: 300$ for a stock
1400$ for an action (tops, this is MCM action price I believe)
500$ for a barrel of your choice
100$ for a base
250$ for a top -O- line trigger

Thats 2550$ + chambering, truing, etc...
So he's charging you 2150$ for smith work.
Damn.

 

[pupdawg]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

Les Baer 308 bolt gun for $3500 (est)?


I'd rather have a Sako TRG22... but thats just me.

 

[brand692]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a $4700 custom rifle with a B&C coming. </div></div>
Just a question who charged you 4700$ for a custom build with a BC on it? That alot of coin for a 300$ stock.
I figure: 300$ for a stock
1400$ for an action (tops, this is MCM action price I believe)
500$ for a barrel of your choice
100$ for a base
250$ for a top -O- line trigger

Thats 2550$ + chambering, truing, etc...
So he's charging you 2150$ for smith work.
Damn. </div></div>

I wasn't going to say anything... To each their own.

Buy the LB Bolt gun. Or buy a $4,700 B&C stocked rifle. Its your money. Just don't expect to get that back out of it.

For 3,500, I'd take a S&B PMII on top of a SPS before the LB.

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a $4700 custom rifle with a B&C coming. </div></div>
Just a question who charged you 4700$ for a custom build with a BC on it? That alot of coin for a 300$ stock.
I figure: 300$ for a stock
1400$ for an action (tops, this is MCM action price I believe)
500$ for a barrel of your choice
100$ for a base
250$ for a top -O- line trigger

Thats 2550$ + chambering, truing, etc...
So he's charging you 2150$ for smith work.
Damn. </div></div>

Not quite skippy, I think I was unclear.

That includes the optic so i guess to be more accurate I should say $4700 platform -- which is relatively cheap compared to many of the builds on here which can be $7k, $10k or more.

MY spec to him included the B&C, which as I have explained, is a personal choice.

I actually priced it all out myself before I ever sent out a quote for review and after each discussion I had with the smith about parts and what I wanted out of the platform.

Is he making a profit? No doubt. When I price it out, it looks like hes charging me about $800 or so for all of the work in cutting down and threading the end of the barrel for me, re-crowning it including making a thread protector, machining the FTE to fit my threads, chambering, truing, assembly, skim bedding (no i am not relying just on the aluminum block), nitriding, duracoating, and then test firing and shipping the firearm.

Of course I am willing to pay him for his services. He has been patient with me and answered all of my questions, discussed a little bit of the whys and hows for anything he challenged in my package and why the alternative presented was the right decision.

While I think $1600 for an LBC might be pushing it, particularly considering I wouldnt get any of the personal attention or support that I have from the custom smith, good work deserves commensurate compensation.

 

[savage110]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

Nothing against BC bud so chill alittle, just wondering who would charge that for a rifle with a 300$ stock, now I understand that its including optics ( much more reasonable ).
Id rather have a BC that fits me and that I can shoot little tiny groups with then a McM that I cant shoot for shit with.
in other words stick with it if its what fits you best.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

Man, I struck a nerve didn't I? You guys feel better now?

Kb, I dont own both, I have owned both. Didn't like the adj. so I sold it and bought the non, had no issues with either. I have no doubt there have been issues with examples of them just like I know there have been issues with examples of both Manners and Mac's although I'm sure they have been few. That fact holds no bearing here whatsoever.

MD, there are also many well respected smiths who have no problem with aluminum bedding blocks.....and you call me someones dream? Endorsements and ads are all over this site, just look a few inches in almost any direction, are you blind? Like I said, "its the same damn thing", there's just no paper here. You just go ahead and drink any koolaid thats handed to ya brother without thinking on your own or going against the grain, see how that works out for ya.

You boys just catch the next band wagon and hang on.

okie

 

[okiefired]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Les Baer 308 bolt gun for $3500 (est)?


I'd rather have a Sako TRG22... but thats just me.

</div></div>

+1 there.

okie

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man, I struck a nerve didn't I?

MD, there are also many well respected smiths who have no problem with aluminum bedding blocks.....and you call me someones dream? Endorsements and ads are all over this site, just look a few inches in almost any direction, are you blind? Like I said, "its the same damn thing", there's just no paper here. You just go ahead and drink any koolaid thats handed to ya brother without thinking on your own or going against the grain, see how that works out for ya.
</div></div>

Not really struck a nerve. I guess the biggest difference I see is that the writers for major gun publications are more tempered in their ability to speak the truth when major advertising contracts can be put at risk. I believe there was a thread on a writer for a motorcycle magazine getting fired for telling the truth. I never said there wasn't advertising on this site...sure there is. But 99% of the people and none in this thread benefit. We can and have spoken our experience uncensored (as opposed to magazines).

I pointed out the fact that Roscoe (a nationally known gunsmith) noted the typical stresses induced by aluminum bedding blocks and he sees way more components go through his shop in a month than most writers, and definitely you and I, in multiple years time. He should know...he has the equipment to check. The HS Precision on my old 700P had a lot of stress in the aluminum bedding block and I would place B and C in the same quality level.

I never said B and C was a "bad" stock...it is just not what you would typically find on a rifle of that price point. It is definitely no McMillan or Manners. The issue is simply the price point. The only issue I have is some people wanted to compare 3500 or 4700 dollar rifles with vastly different specs in price and value for the money.

Whatever, it's your money if you choose to purchase one. Just don't be surprised when members on this board laugh you into the next state when you attempt to recoup that much money on those components.

Josh

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Les Baer 308 bolt gun for $3500 (est)?


I'd rather have a Sako TRG22... but thats just me.

</div></div>

+1 there.

okie </div></div>

+2...and I have one. And it will hold its value.

Josh

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Whatever, it's your money if you choose to purchase one. Just don't be surprised when members on this board laugh you into the next state when you attempt to recoup that much money on those components.

Josh </div></div>

No doubt

And I think my wife would stab me in the eyeballs and then do even less wonderful things to me were I to sell this sucker after all the time and money going in.

 

[GUNNER75]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

FWIW, especially on factory barreled actions, but even on some "built" barreled actions, barrel to receiver concentricity is a major player in giving a stock manufacture a bad name.

 

[bm11]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone here a member of the NRA? Ya know, that organization that gives you a subscription to American Rifleman free? Anyway, like I said in another thread, AR's field editor and he's a pretty salty gunman, tested this rifle in this months edition. He said it was the most accurate 308 bolt gun he'd ever tested. Here's a quote from the first page:

"The Les Baer Custom Tactical Recon, fitted with a Nightforce 5.5-22X 56 mm NXS scope, turned in an average of 0.57" for five consecutive, five-shot groups with six different .308 Win. factory loadings"

No, I'm not a smith or even close and probably not even a very good shot compared to all these .5 moa all day long shooters on this site but that grouping sounds pretty good to me. Especially since its from a company putting junk on its equipment like a stock who's bedding block is bound up like a truck spring and has a barrel riding along its channel. Come on people.

I agree, the rifle's too high priced as are most and I'm sure I'll never own one or want to. That coming from a man who cant afford anything but factory rifles and I have to save months for them. I'm just sayin, "the proofs in the puddin".

okie </div></div>Not to bash on you at all, but please keep an eye out for a BAD review in AR... I'm pretty sure the reason you get a "free" subscription is the amount of add revenue it generates for the NRA. They aren't going to publish a bad review in that mag.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

MD, I think we're actually in agreement on some of this. You still seem to be somewhat confused on as to wether I want a LB product or not. I have said several times in this thread that not only do I not want one, I have never owned one and probably never will. If I did, wether you or anyone else here laughed at me for doing so would be of absolutely no concern to me. I also said from the beginning that the rifle was priced way to high like most are so price point was never an issuer between you and I either.

The bit about 99% of this site not benefiting from promotion of a particular product is complete garbage, just like it would be if said about a product in a gun rag like Amer. Rifle. The sponsors of this site influence what is said here, usually because they are very knowledgable, sometimes not so the case. There is a flip side to the accusation of the editor of AR. I have also seen the praises sang of companies like McMillan in the same mag. and many of us know from personal experience that it is much deserved praise but to your logic, we should completely discredit it and assume that all said is nothing more than frabricated lies. To me, that dog just dont hunt, when talking about a web site or a magazine. I'll believe my hands on experience no matter how limited over either.

Stress between stock and reciever is delt with by bedding. LB does it on the B&C and the rifle in question, custom builders do it on Mac's and Manners and just about every type of stock made. I fail to see the difference.

You take care and shoot well. Enjoy that TRG, I'm very envious, thats one of my dream rifles.

okie

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Les Baer .308 Tactical Recon

Okie,

Yeah, I understood you about not wanting one. The "if it is your money then spend it" was meant for all the fan boys that would pay for a name even if that meant a higher price for lesser components.

I still believe the gun rags have a tighter reign because all articles go through editors before hitting the presses. Here, Frank allows opinions on both sides of the coin. Sure, sponsors may run to the rescue of some product, but I think we get a less biased look at most things. Take the current Vortex release of the Viper PST. They had some issues with the first batch and it was prominently aired here. Try coming out with tough truths like that in a gun rag. It's simply the level of censorship. I think we get a better view here.

I think we agree on bedding blocks as well. Any stock can be altered to be stress free. Mcmillan and Manners have a sterling reputation for producing products with the precision and durability people can count on without thinking. A B&C can do the same, but it generally takes a little work to get it to a level on par with the other two. The difference in cost reflects materials, workmanship, and research and development. The Les Baer can come with a B&C for all I care and it would still be a nice rifle. It might be more along the lines of a $2500 rifle if priced fairly.

Thanks for the kind words on the TRG. If you ever have the chance to get one, snap it up. Load development with the 175s is this Sunday. Hope you can get some shooting done as well.

Josh