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Photos Let's Dance

MK14 SEI

MK14 SEI

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 24, 2009
1,095
2
US
#1
I have posted pictures here on Sniper's Hide of the four ChiCom M14s that have been domesticated, modernized and enhanced for me by Smith Enterprise, Inc. They are my pride and joy.

I also have three China Girls stashed away in a vault for a rainy day, the middle one is a virgin. Buy them when you find them.
 
#7
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: exedotbat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting what do those things go for? </div></div>

The basic rifle sells for about $900 to $1000, but I still see them priced around $700 now and then.

Poly Tech M14s that are heel stamped bring a premium as do NIB and LNIB examples.

NOTE: Poly Tech M14s that are stamped on the side and wear the IDE import mark are considered the better quality ChiCom M14s to be imported into the US. Norinco M14s (heel & side stamped) tend to bring lower prices because of their less smooth exterior finish. Cosmetic difference aside, Norinco and Poly Tech M14s are the same.

I shop for all original, unmolested ChiCom M14s or those that have a USGI bolt conversion done performed by SEI. Bolt conversions performed by WarBird are also worth buying.

Also, ChiCom trigger groups and op rods are excellent and do not need to be replaced with USGI parts.
The original chrome lined barrels are as good as USGI, but they have metric threads for the gas lock and castle nut. The original gas cylinder is good to go, but it is not stainless.

The forged ChiCom M14 receivers are dimensionally closer to USGI than all others except SEI receivers.
 
#11
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1shot2kill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone have a link </div></div>Link to what?



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlc356</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did the top rifle come with a second flash hider? </div></div>You have a good eye for details.

That is a rare functional Chinese flash hider with a bayonet lug.
It's so rare that I have yet to see another one.
 
#14
Re: Let's Dance

Chinese M14 rifles brought into the United States were included in the Presidential Executive Order import ban of March 1989. All Poly Tech and Norinco M14s sold in the US today are sold in the secondary market.
 
#16
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unbelievable that this fine design is still hard to get at a decent price. You are looking to China Gentlemen..China for an M14.... </div></div>
The Chinese did a fine job of reverse engineering the USGI M14. Their quality is very good to excellent and they can be outstanding with just a little tweaking. I believe that the price for a ChiCom M14 is decent, even great - especially when you compare it to the price of American made M14 clones. Also, most American made M14 clones respond well to a little tweaking.
 
#17
Re: Let's Dance

Norinco and PolyTech M14s had several problems including inconsistent heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This would lead to stretching and inconsistent (some thought unsafe) dimensions.

Some US M1A-clone manufacturers offered to correct the problems (namely heat treatment) at what many consider a fair price.

Caveat emptor -- buyer beware.
 
#18
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Norinco and PolyTech M14s had several problems including inconsistent heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This would lead to stretching and inconsistent (some thought unsafe) dimensions.

Caveat emptor -- buyer beware. </div></div>

Caveat emptor indeed.

I have read of some receiver heat treat problems with the very first examples to hit our shores, but never read of a receiver failure. It is well known that the geometry on all of the bolt lugs is incorrect and that the head space should be checked with NATO gauges.

The Chinese M14s that I shoot all have TRW bolts and 1:10 4 groove barrels with M118LR chambers installed by Smith Enterprise, Inc. I also instructed SEI to check the hardness of the receiver and re heat treated them if needed (Ron told me he does this with all ChiCom receivers). As far as I know, none of my receivers required additional heat treating.

At the very least, the Poly Tech rifles pictured above will make the trip to SEI for TRW bolt conversions.


Interestingly enough... the Springfield Scout that I purchased new in the box required much more work and repair to make it somewhat reliable ~ buyer beware.
 
#19
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Chinese did a fine job of reverse engineering the USGI M14. Their quality is very good to excellent and they can be outstanding with just a little tweaking. I believe that the price for a ChiCom M14 is decent, even great - especially when you compare it to the price of American made M14 clones. Also, most American made M14 clones respond well to a little tweaking. </div></div>

I have no doubt you are correct. I was trying to make your point, that it is absurd that we Americans have to go to China for a well made properly price M1a.
 
#20
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Chinese did a fine job of reverse engineering the USGI M14. Their quality is very good to excellent and they can be outstanding with just a little tweaking. I believe that the price for a ChiCom M14 is decent, even great - especially when you compare it to the price of American made M14 clones. Also, most American made M14 clones respond well to a little tweaking. </div></div>

I have no doubt you are correct. I was trying to make your point, that it is absurd that we Americans have to go to China for a well made properly price M1a. </div></div>

Understood and I agree
cool.gif
 
#21
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Chinese did a fine job of reverse engineering the USGI M14. Their quality is very good to excellent and they can be outstanding with just a little tweaking. </div></div>

We sold, an gave the tooling, prints, spec's, ect to Taiwan, which they built as the type 57. Also China did not Reverse eng anything.
 
#22
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Chinese did a fine job of reverse engineering the USGI M14. Their quality is very good to excellent and they can be outstanding with just a little tweaking. </div></div>

We sold, an gave the tooling, prints, spec's, ect to Taiwan, which they built as the type 57. Also China did not Reverse eng anything. </div></div>

Yes, we sold them the tooling, but they also had USGI M14s that they learned from.
I am checking with Lee Emerson for verification . . .
 
#23
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Chinese did a fine job of reverse engineering the USGI M14. Their quality is very good to excellent and they can be outstanding with just a little tweaking. </div></div>

We sold, an gave the tooling, prints, spec's, ect to Taiwan, which they built as the type 57. Also China did not Reverse eng anything.</div></div>

My area of study and interest is the M14 type rifle. I cannot speak to any other weapon. Research is more detective work than it is physical science. Yes, we sold the Government of Taiwan the technical data package, a complete set of inspection gauges and quite a few machine tools from the Harrington & Richardson Arms M14 project. The interviews and written information I've been able to gather strongly point to a reverse engineering effort by the People's Republic of China to produce their M14 rifle.
 
#24
Re: Let's Dance

Thank you for the verification and welcome to Sniper's Hide.

Additional information from Different:

<span style="font-weight: bold">"</span>State Arsenal 356 manufactured and assembled complete M14 rifles in 1965.

The Government of Taiwan did not receive the M14 project technical data until after the Memorandum of Understanding was issued on January 23, 1967. State Arsenal 356 (Kunming, Yunnan, People's Republic of China) DID have the USGI receiver drawings when they manufactured M14 receivers from 1987 to 1994. State Arsenal 356 received the drawings about 1985.<span style="font-weight: bold">"</span>

I highly recommend Different's M1A site to everyone that has an interest in the history and development of the M14 rifle.
 
#25
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">"</span>State Arsenal 356 manufactured and assembled complete M14 rifles in 1965.</div></div>



Why would the PRC reverse Eng an item they had stolen/copied prints for in 1959?
I was under the impression they never seen a need to build same in quanity until there was a large export market. They had issues with the heat treatment on the first ones they tried to build in the early 60's. Then as V/N an the Congo cranked up, the real ones that made it for PRC testing, did not impress them, as they felt the 7.62X51 had "Excess" power for their battlefields.

It was my understanding they stayed with the AK's for that reason, plus the PRC could build 3 stamped AK's for one M14. I've been wrong before an will be again but, this info is from back in the mid 60's Via a Two Star Named,... Bole and a CSM named Pinero.
 
#26
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">"</span>State Arsenal 356 manufactured and assembled complete M14 rifles in 1965.</div></div>



Why would the PRC reverse Eng an item they had stolen/copied prints for in 1959? </div></div>

What 1959 prints are you referring to?
 
#27
Re: Let's Dance

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">"</span>State Arsenal 356 manufactured and assembled complete M14 rifles in 1965.</div></div>



Why would the PRC reverse Eng an item they had stolen/copied prints for in 1959? </div></div>

What 1959 prints are you referring to? </div></div>

Winchester!
 
#29
Re: Let's Dance

BattleRifles.com, same logon as here. Never went to backyard when it switched, for me it started going down hill when Brians Ammo got into a pissing match with the BR's owner.
1/8th Cav. in Korea, TDY to V/N. 65/66, I know more about Cambodia, than V/N though.

Kenneth
 
#31
Re: Let's Dance

So... what's the story on the papers stolen from Winchester in 1959?

Update:
Different shared some of this information with me.
The Chinese had stolen plans and captured USGI M14s.
 
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