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Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

wbeard

Private
Minuteman
Nov 29, 2011
58
0
49
Ohio
I'm thinking I like the blackened (patina) brass look for my nosler CT's and VMAX. Anything wrong with just not neutralizing the vinegar and letting the brass blacken?
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

It's a oxidation layer and is OK, but if you don't like it wash the brass in a baking soda bath before your final rinse.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wbeard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm thinking I like the blackened (patina) brass look for my nosler CT's and VMAX. Anything wrong with just not neutralizing the vinegar and letting the brass blacken? </div></div>

Next time you're in ChinaMart, Target, KMart, or your local grocer, look for LemiShine. It's either in powder (mine) form, or a liquid.

It's citric acid and does wonders for your dishwasher and for removing tarnish from brass and bullets. It'll remove spots from your wife's stemware, as well!

A 45acp's worth in a couple/few pints of warm-hot water and 15-30mins later, your stuff is good as new.

Chris
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

Long yrs ago I had an article telling you what chemicals to buy and soak your brass in to make it diff colors. I played around with the formula for red brass and it turned out pretty good. Don't even think about asking me to look it up, probaly gone a long time ago.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

Tarnished or oxidized brass is as hard as cast iron. You really want that expanding and stretching under 55,000 psi in your chamber? I don't know what the chemical
make up of blackened brass is but I wouldn't do it any more than I would shoot old
tarnished cases.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tarnished or oxidized brass is as hard as cast iron. You really want that expanding and stretching under 55,000 psi in your chamber? I don't know what the chemical
make up of blackened brass is but I wouldn't do it any more than I would shoot old
tarnished cases. </div></div>

interesting...I would have imagined any surface tarnish would only affect the cosmetics/surface...but you're saying it hardens the brass all the way through?
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

No, it's on the surface, the part of the case that contacts your chamber.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tarnished or oxidized brass is as hard as cast iron. You really want that expanding and stretching under 55,000 psi in your chamber? I don't know what the chemical
make up of blackened brass is but I wouldn't do it any more than I would shoot old
tarnished cases. </div></div>

So you have no idea what the chemical make up of the OXIDATION layer on brass is made up of but you somehow know that it's as hard as cast iron?

2cnyq87.jpg
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

Hey troll, how are you? Look it up, it's not hard to find.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey troll, how are you? Look it up, it's not hard to find. </div></div>

e66a1j.jpg
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

I played around with aluminum black when making some rounds for one of my "red dawn" defense systems
smile.gif


It looked great, but I noticed this hard surface scaling if you applied it with too much concentration or didn't neutralize it soon enough...it was definately hard scaling so I can see that taken to the extreme, surface oxidation is baaaaaaaaaddddd...but in a thin layer I'm not sure I'm convinced it would cause any damage to the chamber or weaken the brass.

My takeaway from the thread so far is that the oxidation from the vinegar will be much the same and not actually penetrate the brass to change the properties of the brass (tempering effect)
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

wbeard, I wouldn't, and don't worry about light tarnishing. But some old ammo I
have seen shot has heavy tarnishing. The aluminum oxide grit on fine sandpaper
(say 2000 or 3000 grit) is thin also, but it does it's job. A smooth finish wouldn't
do damage like some sort of crystal type surface would. As our resident chemist
pointed out so bluntly , I'm not. So I err on the safe side when I look into these
things. My buddy ruined a small load of brass trying to use an infrared gun to
check temps while annealing. Same deal, oxidized brass has an emmisivity so low
most guns can't be calibrated to it. And most people would never stop to think there would be a difference. How would you ever know much tarnish was on "clean brass"
and where to set the emmisivity? I don't, so I don't try to use it.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wbeard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My takeaway from the thread so far is that the oxidation from the vinegar will be much the same and not actually penetrate the brass to change the properties of the brass (tempering effect)

</div></div>

Correct, it will NOT harm your gun.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

Good stuff!!!!

I would think that a layer just enough to look like bluing where there is still color swirls and variations would be how I would classify "light" tarnish. If it gets to be thick enough that the color begins to look uniform or non"transparent" at least...then I would call that too thick I guess.

This is all really great discussion because I actually LIKE black brass....like how it compliments a good tactical setup. Not my choice for EVERY application, but for some, provided I can perfect it
smile.gif
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

OH... and red brass for tracers!!! how cool would that be!!!!!
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wbeard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good stuff!!!!

I would think that a layer just enough to look like bluing where there is still color swirls and variations would be how I would classify "light" tarnish. If it gets to be thick enough that the color begins to look uniform or non"transparent" at least...then I would call that too thick I guess.
</div></div>

OK, let me clear this up because there's some really bad info in this thread. The purple/blue layer is an oxidation layer which is harmless. The oxidation layer (purple/blue) exists because of an oxidation reaction between the brass and Oxygen. Now because oxygen in this situation is only in the air/water it will only effect the surface of the brass, since air and water can not pass through the brass it will never effect anything but the surface. With only the chemicals we've discussed it would impossible to build up enough oxidation to even appreciably effect the size/strength/hardness of that brass i.e. you'd have to try really hard to get a 'tarnish' thick enough to effect the brass' functionality. So to respond to your statement, a dark or light tarnish is OK but you'll never get it "too thick". So no matter the color, just shoot it or use a baking soda bath post vinegar to stop/minimize the oxidation or bump up the acid, give a few drops of bleach and use a heat source to dry your brass if you want it darker or as you eluded to, 'more tactical looking' brass
smile.gif


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wbeard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OH... and red brass for tracers!!! how cool would that be!!!!! </div></div>

You could always use a sharpie to color your brass.. Just a thought.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

Sharpies are great!!! but they put too much shine on the brass when using black. (they are black, but very high gloss and reflective when using sharpie) Thanks for the inputs, they are very reassuring. I would have hated to use the blacking process on several hundred cases and then discover I ruined them.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

http://www.abbeyclock.com/wear.html

A good read on brass oxides, their hardness and how they can be detrimental.
Read the cites at the bottom of the chart.

Quote:
3. Copper oxide, zinc oxide and iron are of similar hardness. This means that these oxides, since they have crystalline structures, could scratch the surface of a soft iron pivot. High-carbon steel pivots, however, are considerably harder than these oxides. You would expect that steel pivots would be unlikely to be scratched by these oxides. However, even an oxide with less hardness, such as zinc oxide, could cause wear:

"Zinc oxide is abrasive and zinc in the copper matrix promotes galling when mated with steel."

The most important point to remember here is that the main cause of wear in a clock bushing is the presence of metal oxides. If the formation of oxides could be prevented, the bushings and pivots would last much longer.


 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wbeard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sharpies are great!!! but they put too much shine on the brass when using black. (they are black, but very high gloss and reflective when using sharpie) Thanks for the inputs, they are very reassuring. I would have hated to use the blacking process on several hundred cases and then discover I ruined them. </div></div>

LOL, no problem. I actually use a black sharpie on my bullets so that they have more contrast going through the chrono. Seems to work pretty well but I do get funny looks as I'm sitting at the range and while everybody else is shooting I'm doing some funky art project on my bullets.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

Now that you know you're wrong.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tarnished or oxidized brass is as hard as cast iron. You really want that expanding and stretching under 55,000 psi in your chamber? I don't know what the chemical
make up of blackened brass is but I wouldn't do it any more than I would shoot old
tarnished cases. </div></div>

So you have no idea what the chemical make up of the OXIDATION layer on brass is made up of but you somehow know that it's as hard as cast iron?

2cnyq87.jpg
</div></div>
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where my stapler
</div></div>

wiu0ja.jpg
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where my stapler
</div></div>

wiu0ja.jpg
</div></div>

No , I didn't post anything like that, add deceiving before troll to your title.
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to tell my mommy. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">[last post in this thread]</span>

Here, fill this out:
<span style="font-weight: bold">
Seriously as easy as you make it, you've got to drop this, I'm running out of funny pictures...</span>

20h3byp.jpg



<span style="font-weight: bold">In all seriousness, you don't seem like the type that can let anything go and I'm done educating you. Have a good night, sleep it off and lick your wounds. Tomorrow's a new day and maybe we can play nice together in this sandbox. I hope everybody else got a laugh outa this thread, I know I did. Peace bigwheela.</span>

<span style="color: #FF0000">[/last post in this thread]</span>
 
Re: Letting vinegar blacken brass ok?

I know you're an ass clown so I doubt it. I used that for my employees years ago. I see it's been modified for you city boys. All the little gay stuff.
Why don't you actually post something useful from that head full of chemistry
and materials lab expertise you have.
Go troll somebody you can handle.