Rifle Scopes Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
- Thread starter CSTactical
- Start date
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CST, guys thanks for the write-up, actually I appreciate all the great info you post. But Leupold has lost me as a customer, 4 grand, no I am sorry thats a little too much, even the March or S&B ain't that expensive. Their name doesn't sell their product anymore, there are too many quality alternatives out there. </div></div>
$4K is definitely a hefty price tag, no arguments here. When we were at SHOT Leupold Tatical Division was aware of their perception in the tactical community. They told us that Leupold Tactical Division pretty much runs itself as separate from Leupold and they are trying to make a distinction between the two. Their Mark 4 FFP scopes with M5 turrets (MIL) we feel are one of the best MIL/MIL FFP scopes out there right now <span style="text-decoration: underline">for the price.</span> Glass is clean with good durability. When I was at the TPRC 2011 in AZ there were actually a handful of guys running M5 scopes that were happy with them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What 1-8 alternatives are out there? I know everyone and their mother is coming out with one of these including IOR but I didn't think anything else was out, hence leupold's steep price. Leupold does offer the horus but it is another $400 or so on top of the TMR 2. </div></div>
Schmidt and Bender's ETA on their 1-8 is currently April. Premier's current ETA on their 1-8 is September.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CST, guys thanks for the write-up, actually I appreciate all the great info you post. But Leupold has lost me as a customer, 4 grand, no I am sorry thats a little too much, even the March or S&B ain't that expensive. Their name doesn't sell their product anymore, there are too many quality alternatives out there. </div></div>
$4K is definitely a hefty price tag, no arguments here. When we were at SHOT Leupold Tatical Division was aware of their perception in the tactical community. They told us that Leupold Tactical Division pretty much runs itself as separate from Leupold and they are trying to make a distinction between the two. Their Mark 4 FFP scopes with M5 turrets (MIL) we feel are one of the best MIL/MIL FFP scopes out there right now <span style="text-decoration: underline">for the price.</span> Glass is clean with good durability. When I was at the TPRC 2011 in AZ there were actually a handful of guys running M5 scopes that were happy with them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What 1-8 alternatives are out there? I know everyone and their mother is coming out with one of these including IOR but I didn't think anything else was out, hence leupold's steep price. Leupold does offer the horus but it is another $400 or so on top of the TMR 2. </div></div>
Schmidt and Bender's ETA on their 1-8 is currently April. Premier's current ETA on their 1-8 is September.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the title of best FFP for the price lays with Vortex now. </div></div>
Vortex's FFP offerings are nice. I agree. The PST's are in a different price range then the M5's. If you're looking for 1k or less FFP MIL/MIL, then definitely go the PST route.
The Razors are nice too. But the 5-20 is in a different price range then the M5's. When people ask us to recommend them a scope, one of the questions we ask is what their budget is because you really do get what you pay for in most cases.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the title of best FFP for the price lays with Vortex now. </div></div>
Vortex's FFP offerings are nice. I agree. The PST's are in a different price range then the M5's. If you're looking for 1k or less FFP MIL/MIL, then definitely go the PST route.
The Razors are nice too. But the 5-20 is in a different price range then the M5's. When people ask us to recommend them a scope, one of the questions we ask is what their budget is because you really do get what you pay for in most cases.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Frankthelefty, if Leupold is basing the price on these scopes, because no one else out there has an alternative they are wrong. As stated above S&B is out there, Premier are coming, IOR makes a dandy little 1-8x26, March is there with a fantastic 1-10x24. There are some really outstanding scopes in the 1-10 power range and they don't cost four grand, that is all I am saying, I run a NF 2.5-10x24 that you could almost say would be a reasonable alternative but some folks would say it doesn't have low enough magnification, but I don't seem to have a problem engaging targets at any range, its a good tool that I can the job done with. Mason, you would be the first to agree that there is a huge civilian market for top quality tactical scopes, a lot of companies are stepping up to the plate and listening to what the consumer wants, heck even Steiner is making tactical scopes now. Unfortunately in my opinion, Leupold (Tactical) seems to be a little slow in realizing this, four grand for a scope when S&B and March are making one for $1500 cheaper is well, not great marketing. If one was to conduct a poll on the Hide on which scope you are currently running or wished to run, Leupold would I think, fall well down the list as they have been surpassed by many other scope manufacturers in not only reliablity, optical quality but also price.
Frankthelefty, if Leupold is basing the price on these scopes, because no one else out there has an alternative they are wrong. As stated above S&B is out there, Premier are coming, IOR makes a dandy little 1-8x26, March is there with a fantastic 1-10x24. There are some really outstanding scopes in the 1-10 power range and they don't cost four grand, that is all I am saying, I run a NF 2.5-10x24 that you could almost say would be a reasonable alternative but some folks would say it doesn't have low enough magnification, but I don't seem to have a problem engaging targets at any range, its a good tool that I can the job done with. Mason, you would be the first to agree that there is a huge civilian market for top quality tactical scopes, a lot of companies are stepping up to the plate and listening to what the consumer wants, heck even Steiner is making tactical scopes now. Unfortunately in my opinion, Leupold (Tactical) seems to be a little slow in realizing this, four grand for a scope when S&B and March are making one for $1500 cheaper is well, not great marketing. If one was to conduct a poll on the Hide on which scope you are currently running or wished to run, Leupold would I think, fall well down the list as they have been surpassed by many other scope manufacturers in not only reliablity, optical quality but also price.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
At the "Sheep" convention in Reno three weeks ago (the poor man's version of the Safari Club International convention a few weeks earlier), I asked the Leupold reps how they could charge $4k for the CQBSS. The reply was very simple, "We make the best scope." They went on to say that all the other 1.1-8x scopes have problems, and Leupold's scope works. (The S&B was specifically mentioned as needing a redesign, but he might have been thinking of the Premier.) There were no smirks or grins, that's their belief, and it's true that Leupold is the only major manufacturer with a 1.1-8x tactical scope on the market available to everyone who can afford it (in the US at least).
At the "Sheep" convention in Reno three weeks ago (the poor man's version of the Safari Club International convention a few weeks earlier), I asked the Leupold reps how they could charge $4k for the CQBSS. The reply was very simple, "We make the best scope." They went on to say that all the other 1.1-8x scopes have problems, and Leupold's scope works. (The S&B was specifically mentioned as needing a redesign, but he might have been thinking of the Premier.) There were no smirks or grins, that's their belief, and it's true that Leupold is the only major manufacturer with a 1.1-8x tactical scope on the market available to everyone who can afford it (in the US at least).
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
I ordered 3, at 4,000 bucks you cant beat it, DUH
I ordered 3, at 4,000 bucks you cant beat it, DUH
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ordered 3, at 4,000 bucks you cant beat it, DUH </div></div>
Congratulations! Needless to say I'm sure you'll end up being Leupold's best customer for this scope - they won't be selling many at this price, they just don't have the pedigree to command stellar prices for their scopes. At $1500 cheaper S&B's product will take the lion's share of the market.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ordered 3, at 4,000 bucks you cant beat it, DUH </div></div>
Congratulations! Needless to say I'm sure you'll end up being Leupold's best customer for this scope - they won't be selling many at this price, they just don't have the pedigree to command stellar prices for their scopes. At $1500 cheaper S&B's product will take the lion's share of the market.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankthelefty, if Leupold is basing the price on these scopes, because no one else out there has an alternative they are wrong. As stated above S&B is out there, Premier are coming, IOR makes a dandy little 1-8x26, March is there with a fantastic 1-10x24. </div></div>
Show me where I can order a S&B or Premier 1-8?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankthelefty, if Leupold is basing the price on these scopes, because no one else out there has an alternative they are wrong. As stated above S&B is out there, Premier are coming, IOR makes a dandy little 1-8x26, March is there with a fantastic 1-10x24. </div></div>
Show me where I can order a S&B or Premier 1-8?
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
I was at the Leupold/FN Long Range Precision Match last year and held one of these. I almost bought it but didnt. I am not going to list the price one of the Leupold dealers quoted me but it was a fraction of what they are asking now.
I was at the Leupold/FN Long Range Precision Match last year and held one of these. I almost bought it but didnt. I am not going to list the price one of the Leupold dealers quoted me but it was a fraction of what they are asking now.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankthelefty, if Leupold is basing the price on these scopes, because no one else out there has an alternative they are wrong. As stated above S&B is out there, Premier are coming, IOR makes a dandy little 1-8x26, March is there with a fantastic 1-10x24. </div></div>
Show me where I can order a S&B or Premier 1-8?
</div></div>
A scope in hand is better than two in the bush.
Premier is back in the lab for a redesign, and has anyone heard what their timeframe is? It seems you can take any time estimate and double it. I'm sure S&B's will be great, but I just did a search and people thought it would be out last August, and here we are- are they actually shipping yet.
I am by far not a Leupold fan, I shoot a Premier, but you have to give some kudos to Leupold on this one.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankthelefty, if Leupold is basing the price on these scopes, because no one else out there has an alternative they are wrong. As stated above S&B is out there, Premier are coming, IOR makes a dandy little 1-8x26, March is there with a fantastic 1-10x24. </div></div>
Show me where I can order a S&B or Premier 1-8?
</div></div>
A scope in hand is better than two in the bush.
Premier is back in the lab for a redesign, and has anyone heard what their timeframe is? It seems you can take any time estimate and double it. I'm sure S&B's will be great, but I just did a search and people thought it would be out last August, and here we are- are they actually shipping yet.
I am by far not a Leupold fan, I shoot a Premier, but you have to give some kudos to Leupold on this one.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankthelefty, if Leupold is basing the price on these scopes, because no one else out there has an alternative they are wrong. As stated above S&B is out there, Premier are coming, IOR makes a dandy little 1-8x26, March is there with a fantastic 1-10x24. </div></div>
Show me where I can order a S&B or Premier 1-8?
</div></div>
A scope in hand is better than two in the bush.
Premier is back in the lab for a redesign, and has anyone heard what their timeframe is? It seems you can take any time estimate and double it. I'm sure S&B's will be great, but I just did a search and people thought it would be out last August, and here we are- are they actually shipping yet.
I am by far not a Leupold fan, I shoot a Premier, but you have to give some kudos to Leupold on this one. </div></div>
When I spoke to S&B last week they told me their 1-8 will be out in April/May.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankthelefty, if Leupold is basing the price on these scopes, because no one else out there has an alternative they are wrong. As stated above S&B is out there, Premier are coming, IOR makes a dandy little 1-8x26, March is there with a fantastic 1-10x24. </div></div>
Show me where I can order a S&B or Premier 1-8?
</div></div>
A scope in hand is better than two in the bush.
Premier is back in the lab for a redesign, and has anyone heard what their timeframe is? It seems you can take any time estimate and double it. I'm sure S&B's will be great, but I just did a search and people thought it would be out last August, and here we are- are they actually shipping yet.
I am by far not a Leupold fan, I shoot a Premier, but you have to give some kudos to Leupold on this one. </div></div>
When I spoke to S&B last week they told me their 1-8 will be out in April/May.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
I am out here now, and they said they scope has yet to be priced for the commercial market, as well they are not sure if the commercial market will get all the same features.
They did say they felt theirs is the best, however they said anyone advertising this is jumping the gun as they have not determined the street value of this model.
As well we saw many being made.
I am out here now, and they said they scope has yet to be priced for the commercial market, as well they are not sure if the commercial market will get all the same features.
They did say they felt theirs is the best, however they said anyone advertising this is jumping the gun as they have not determined the street value of this model.
As well we saw many being made.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Sorry about that CSTactical, I thought this was a "Lowlight" thread...
Scott
Sorry about that CSTactical, I thought this was a "Lowlight" thread...
Scott
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mason, you would be the first to agree that there is a huge civilian market for top quality tactical scopes, a lot of companies are stepping up to the plate and listening to what the consumer wants, heck even Steiner is making tactical scopes now. Unfortunately in my opinion, Leupold (Tactical) seems to be a little slow in realizing this, four grand for a scope when S&B and March are making one for $1500 cheaper is well, not great marketing.</div></div>
I agree that the 1-8x is very expensive. It's not their only tactical scope though. The Mark 4 M5 (MIL/MIL) FFP series is in the sub-2k range. A really nice value for the end-user.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mason, you would be the first to agree that there is a huge civilian market for top quality tactical scopes, a lot of companies are stepping up to the plate and listening to what the consumer wants, heck even Steiner is making tactical scopes now. Unfortunately in my opinion, Leupold (Tactical) seems to be a little slow in realizing this, four grand for a scope when S&B and March are making one for $1500 cheaper is well, not great marketing.</div></div>
I agree that the 1-8x is very expensive. It's not their only tactical scope though. The Mark 4 M5 (MIL/MIL) FFP series is in the sub-2k range. A really nice value for the end-user.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am out here now, and they said they scope has yet to be priced for the commercial market, as well they are not sure if the commercial market will get all the same features.
They did say they felt theirs is the best, however they said anyone advertising this is jumping the gun as they have not determined the street value of this model.
As well we saw many being made.</div></div>
We've had few in and sold them. The people who have bought them have been really pleased with the optic. The current 4k rate is a lot, it's bit much for me to swallow. But these guys buying them really want a 1-8x <span style="text-decoration: underline">right now</span> really bad.
Mike @ CST
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am out here now, and they said they scope has yet to be priced for the commercial market, as well they are not sure if the commercial market will get all the same features.
They did say they felt theirs is the best, however they said anyone advertising this is jumping the gun as they have not determined the street value of this model.
As well we saw many being made.</div></div>
We've had few in and sold them. The people who have bought them have been really pleased with the optic. The current 4k rate is a lot, it's bit much for me to swallow. But these guys buying them really want a 1-8x <span style="text-decoration: underline">right now</span> really bad.
Mike @ CST
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Personally, listening to them talk about it, I think the price is gonna drop.
As will I think you might get them much cheaper without the Horus as well possibly without the windage lock. Which will reduce the price further.
Personally, listening to them talk about it, I think the price is gonna drop.
As will I think you might get them much cheaper without the Horus as well possibly without the windage lock. Which will reduce the price further.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Does Leupold envisage selling the CQBSS into the AR15 market? When I spoke to S&B they said that they felt the 1-8 optic is really pitched at the AR10 OBR market, with the 1-4 being sufficient for use with the 556.
Does Leupold envisage selling the CQBSS into the AR15 market? When I spoke to S&B they said that they felt the 1-8 optic is really pitched at the AR10 OBR market, with the 1-4 being sufficient for use with the 556.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
I think is the same focus...
I think is the same focus...
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Other than for target id, 1-8 is more suited to 308 than 5.56. I know I wouldnt spend that much on glass for anything 5.56. But if you had the money why not. I bet the price goes down alot when other offerings are out and their small military contracts are done
Other than for target id, 1-8 is more suited to 308 than 5.56. I know I wouldnt spend that much on glass for anything 5.56. But if you had the money why not. I bet the price goes down alot when other offerings are out and their small military contracts are done
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
JasonK, I was under the impression that the S&B 1-8x24 was available right now,(SWFA, Egay has several listed from reputable sellers) and also in my post I stated the Premier was coming.
Mike, I totally agree with you on four grand is a lot to swallow especially from leupold, but if someone wants a 1-8x24 right now and no other scope will work for you, go right ahead and spend that four grand. What I am saying is that i believe there are alternatives out there to this scope.
Lowlight, you recently visited Leupold and stated they were making a lot of these scopes, that Leupold stated they hadn't been priced for the commercial market and if and when they were, these scopes might be missing some features that make them very attractive right now.
Just wish leupold would build and price their scopes to the market
JasonK, I was under the impression that the S&B 1-8x24 was available right now,(SWFA, Egay has several listed from reputable sellers) and also in my post I stated the Premier was coming.
Mike, I totally agree with you on four grand is a lot to swallow especially from leupold, but if someone wants a 1-8x24 right now and no other scope will work for you, go right ahead and spend that four grand. What I am saying is that i believe there are alternatives out there to this scope.
Lowlight, you recently visited Leupold and stated they were making a lot of these scopes, that Leupold stated they hadn't been priced for the commercial market and if and when they were, these scopes might be missing some features that make them very attractive right now.
Just wish leupold would build and price their scopes to the market
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
This scope was designed for a specific group for a specific purpose... it is purpose built and there are several contracts being worked out in regards to this scope.
The reason everyone is delayed on delivery is the fact getting this ratio right is not as easy as it seems. Also the Leupold does have the best / read most user friendly turret locks available. I have used this scope with some Tier 1 guys and I have to say, it is my favor of the 1-8xs, I have seen and played with. I am a huge S&B fan but I find turning the pull up locks harder than the press locks fo the Leupold. But getting the ratio right is what Leupolds believes sets this scope apart from the others... which is why I have used this scope last August in the field versus not using others.
We saw them making this scope at the factory yesterday, along with several other models, so for sure they are made here. They understand the pricing, it wasn't meant for the civilian / commercial market, and as I said it was said they are going to address it. The Horus adds a lot to the cost, over $400 alone, plus some other features.
People who want to jump on this now, more power to them, but honestly I think it will level out. I worded it to them as the forest of military contracts versus the bridge that crosses the stream of commercial sales. While they said they haven't finalized the best way to cross that bridge, they said, they can definitely see the stream from where they are in the woods right now.
This scope was designed for a specific group for a specific purpose... it is purpose built and there are several contracts being worked out in regards to this scope.
The reason everyone is delayed on delivery is the fact getting this ratio right is not as easy as it seems. Also the Leupold does have the best / read most user friendly turret locks available. I have used this scope with some Tier 1 guys and I have to say, it is my favor of the 1-8xs, I have seen and played with. I am a huge S&B fan but I find turning the pull up locks harder than the press locks fo the Leupold. But getting the ratio right is what Leupolds believes sets this scope apart from the others... which is why I have used this scope last August in the field versus not using others.
We saw them making this scope at the factory yesterday, along with several other models, so for sure they are made here. They understand the pricing, it wasn't meant for the civilian / commercial market, and as I said it was said they are going to address it. The Horus adds a lot to the cost, over $400 alone, plus some other features.
People who want to jump on this now, more power to them, but honestly I think it will level out. I worded it to them as the forest of military contracts versus the bridge that crosses the stream of commercial sales. While they said they haven't finalized the best way to cross that bridge, they said, they can definitely see the stream from where they are in the woods right now.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
If they can get this scope down to the $2000 or so price range, they'd probably have an easier sale. The scope overall is not that bad, but I prefer a dot in the center (like the S&B and Premier) over an open reticle. I find Leupold's style to not be as quick for target acquisition which is a consideration for a 1-8x scope for me. This is the biggest drawback for me when comparing this scope to the other 1-8x scopes.
If they can get this scope down to the $2000 or so price range, they'd probably have an easier sale. The scope overall is not that bad, but I prefer a dot in the center (like the S&B and Premier) over an open reticle. I find Leupold's style to not be as quick for target acquisition which is a consideration for a 1-8x scope for me. This is the biggest drawback for me when comparing this scope to the other 1-8x scopes.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Lowlight thanks for the comments, just doing a little research, and it seems Leupold Tactical has certainly got a few dollars from the Army to develope and manufacture this scope. Basically the four thousand price tag has nothing to do with the civilian market. It seems that Lupold tactical is making efforts to garner further military contracts to include some recent hires on its staff. Its just a pity that haven't gone after the civilian market the same way and introduce some new and exciting products at affordable prices that other manufacturers have done.
Lowlight thanks for the comments, just doing a little research, and it seems Leupold Tactical has certainly got a few dollars from the Army to develope and manufacture this scope. Basically the four thousand price tag has nothing to do with the civilian market. It seems that Lupold tactical is making efforts to garner further military contracts to include some recent hires on its staff. Its just a pity that haven't gone after the civilian market the same way and introduce some new and exciting products at affordable prices that other manufacturers have done.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
It's coming, I met with everyone at Leupold Tactical, from the VP in charge down, they brought no less than 8 people into the conference room to meet with us.
Because the military is actively engaged in pursuing contracts right now, including the 300wm project which Leupold won, the 1-8x project and the still active PSR scope project, it is only natural to focus on that.
We spoke specifically about the trickle down and it is coming. Giving hard and fast numbers is tough, they have projected dates, but rather than move the line in the sand, let's just say, soon.
But there are new scopes coming with a lot of the features people are looking for specifically in the tactical market - from the Hamr up...
It's coming, I met with everyone at Leupold Tactical, from the VP in charge down, they brought no less than 8 people into the conference room to meet with us.
Because the military is actively engaged in pursuing contracts right now, including the 300wm project which Leupold won, the 1-8x project and the still active PSR scope project, it is only natural to focus on that.
We spoke specifically about the trickle down and it is coming. Giving hard and fast numbers is tough, they have projected dates, but rather than move the line in the sand, let's just say, soon.
But there are new scopes coming with a lot of the features people are looking for specifically in the tactical market - from the Hamr up...
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Did they speak mandarin or cantonese?
Did they speak mandarin or cantonese?
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Well.
If abstract about the price tag - where i can buy HORUS+ Red Dot verison of CQBSS right now?
inside $5K range?
Well.
If abstract about the price tag - where i can buy HORUS+ Red Dot verison of CQBSS right now?
inside $5K range?
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The scope overall is not that bad, but I prefer a dot in the center (like the S&B and Premier) over an open reticle. </div></div>
The CQBSS is not a red dot it has cross hairs?
, I thought that was the whole point of it - Aimpoint ability at close range on low power. Illuminated crosshairs for me at close range is also too messy. I know there are a lot of LE and military looking at the S&B, some of whom have already committed to buying so it should be interesting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The scope overall is not that bad, but I prefer a dot in the center (like the S&B and Premier) over an open reticle. </div></div>
The CQBSS is not a red dot it has cross hairs?
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The scope overall is not that bad, but I prefer a dot in the center (like the S&B and Premier) over an open reticle. </div></div>
The CQBSS is not a red dot it has cross hairs? , I thought that was the whole point of it - Aimpoint ability at close range on low power. Illuminated crosshairs for me at close range is also too messy. I know there are a lot of LE and military looking at the S&B, some of whom have already committed to buying so it should be interesting. </div></div>
They offer two reticles for this scope, the Horus and their own TMR. The one I saw which does not have the red dot was the TMR. The Horus does have the red dot, but if they have to leave out the Horus to save on cost that kinda defeats the purpose of this scope IMO. If they lose the locking turrets to save on cost that's fine with me, I don't personally need them, but the red dot, I feel, is a must for the intended niche for this optic.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The scope overall is not that bad, but I prefer a dot in the center (like the S&B and Premier) over an open reticle. </div></div>
The CQBSS is not a red dot it has cross hairs?
They offer two reticles for this scope, the Horus and their own TMR. The one I saw which does not have the red dot was the TMR. The Horus does have the red dot, but if they have to leave out the Horus to save on cost that kinda defeats the purpose of this scope IMO. If they lose the locking turrets to save on cost that's fine with me, I don't personally need them, but the red dot, I feel, is a must for the intended niche for this optic.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
There was also talk that they might also offer the CMR2 reticle in the 1-8 someday. That would save on the cost over a Horus too as well as satisfy the red dot needs. They'd likely have to offer a 5.56 and 7.62 version I'd assume in order to make everyone happy.
There was also talk that they might also offer the CMR2 reticle in the 1-8 someday. That would save on the cost over a Horus too as well as satisfy the red dot needs. They'd likely have to offer a 5.56 and 7.62 version I'd assume in order to make everyone happy.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
I love this optic. The Horus version is my new go-to for most anything I need to test quick. I've been using at least one of these CQBSS optics for the last 8 months and have added it to my wish list for my M1A SOCOM set in the EBR chassis. if it just wasn't so expensive...
Best,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division, InterMedia Outdoors
I love this optic. The Horus version is my new go-to for most anything I need to test quick. I've been using at least one of these CQBSS optics for the last 8 months and have added it to my wish list for my M1A SOCOM set in the EBR chassis. if it just wasn't so expensive...
Best,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division, InterMedia Outdoors
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Good to have you aboard SH Eric, Like your work, your doing a great job! Are you doing an Mag article on the Leupold? BTW can you lower the cover price a bit on those magazines 8.99 Ouch. Oh well if you keep making them that good Ill continue to buy them! I guess if this scope is that good people will pony up too.
Good to have you aboard SH Eric, Like your work, your doing a great job! Are you doing an Mag article on the Leupold? BTW can you lower the cover price a bit on those magazines 8.99 Ouch. Oh well if you keep making them that good Ill continue to buy them! I guess if this scope is that good people will pony up too.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Lowlight, its nice to know that trickle down effect is coming. Although I do think Leupold was still very slow to the market, but it was nice to see some powers within the company realised that they needed to make changes (Leupold Tactical wasn't created until March 09).
Lowlight, its nice to know that trickle down effect is coming. Although I do think Leupold was still very slow to the market, but it was nice to see some powers within the company realised that they needed to make changes (Leupold Tactical wasn't created until March 09).
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
This is Leupold's Tactical Division at SHOT Show 2011:
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Mason @ CST
This is Leupold's Tactical Division at SHOT Show 2011:
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Mason @ CST
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Being regular Army, I don't see where their market is. I know the GWOT (or whatever it is now) opened up the coffers a bit, but this is the same Army that insisted on a fixed-power 10x, non-illuminated optic for our SNIPERS until relatively recently. At $4k, you are looking at a squad's worth of EOTechs or 4-5 ACOGs. The bean-counters are on their toes these days, and the armsrooms are already full of cool-guy gear that is under-used. If Leupold pulls off a sizable contract for these, they have better lobbyists than I thought.
Being regular Army, I don't see where their market is. I know the GWOT (or whatever it is now) opened up the coffers a bit, but this is the same Army that insisted on a fixed-power 10x, non-illuminated optic for our SNIPERS until relatively recently. At $4k, you are looking at a squad's worth of EOTechs or 4-5 ACOGs. The bean-counters are on their toes these days, and the armsrooms are already full of cool-guy gear that is under-used. If Leupold pulls off a sizable contract for these, they have better lobbyists than I thought.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being regular Army, I don't see where their market is. I know the GWOT (or whatever it is now) opened up the coffers a bit, but this is the same Army that insisted on a fixed-power 10x, non-illuminated optic for our SNIPERS until relatively recently. At $4k, you are looking at a squad's worth of EOTechs or 4-5 ACOGs. The bean-counters are on their toes these days, and the armsrooms are already full of cool-guy gear that is under-used. If Leupold pulls off a sizable contract for these, they have better lobbyists than I thought. </div></div>
As one poster suggested - any contract to Leupold is likely to fall under the government's economic stimulus program. Hence the $4k price tag.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being regular Army, I don't see where their market is. I know the GWOT (or whatever it is now) opened up the coffers a bit, but this is the same Army that insisted on a fixed-power 10x, non-illuminated optic for our SNIPERS until relatively recently. At $4k, you are looking at a squad's worth of EOTechs or 4-5 ACOGs. The bean-counters are on their toes these days, and the armsrooms are already full of cool-guy gear that is under-used. If Leupold pulls off a sizable contract for these, they have better lobbyists than I thought. </div></div>
As one poster suggested - any contract to Leupold is likely to fall under the government's economic stimulus program. Hence the $4k price tag.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Don't think the military is payin 4k. Leupold told us this scope went through extra rounds of R and D that wasn't expected. Basically the military kept coming back with more unexpected modifications but weren't going to pay for the added time and resources for the modifications to be made, thus increasing costs.
Mason @ CST
Don't think the military is payin 4k. Leupold told us this scope went through extra rounds of R and D that wasn't expected. Basically the military kept coming back with more unexpected modifications but weren't going to pay for the added time and resources for the modifications to be made, thus increasing costs.
Mason @ CST
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Does anyone know for sure, But I was under the impression that Leupold didn't have anything more than the R&D contract for these scopes. The last major contract they were awarded was for the M24E1 scopes I believe.
Does anyone know for sure, But I was under the impression that Leupold didn't have anything more than the R&D contract for these scopes. The last major contract they were awarded was for the M24E1 scopes I believe.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
I got to check out a prototype last year at the MGM Iron Man. We all drooled over it. Very nice design. But seriously, $4k? Who in their right mind...
I got to check out a prototype last year at the MGM Iron Man. We all drooled over it. Very nice design. But seriously, $4k? Who in their right mind...
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Mike from CS Tactical still hasn't been able to tell us in his view what tangible benefits and features the extra $1500 buys with the CQBSS over S&B's or Premier's 1-8 power offerings. $4k is a lot for a Leupold especially when S&B's unit has an SP of $2500. I think identifying what this extra $1500 buys would be very useful for would be customers of the CQBSS.
Mike from CS Tactical still hasn't been able to tell us in his view what tangible benefits and features the extra $1500 buys with the CQBSS over S&B's or Premier's 1-8 power offerings. $4k is a lot for a Leupold especially when S&B's unit has an SP of $2500. I think identifying what this extra $1500 buys would be very useful for would be customers of the CQBSS.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
LowLight and Mike,
My understanding was that the Horus/Red-dot model isn't for sale right now, and may not be for sale to civilians and the TMR is the only reticle available for now?
When I had the chance to look thru the red dot version, the Dot was more like a red shaded area that turned green if you were a bit of the optical axis. It was bright, but it was no T-1.
LowLight and Mike,
My understanding was that the Horus/Red-dot model isn't for sale right now, and may not be for sale to civilians and the TMR is the only reticle available for now?
When I had the chance to look thru the red dot version, the Dot was more like a red shaded area that turned green if you were a bit of the optical axis. It was bright, but it was no T-1.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
The Horus is unlit and the TMR is lit.
Those are the only two models currently listed.
There is also a new mounting system to accommodate the CQBSS.
It's the Integral Mounting System (IMS) and it can be configured for 0 MOA, 20 MOA, or 30 MOA.
As far as pricing goes, the contract pricing is inline with the competition.
I would anticipate civilian prices to decrease as availability increases.
The Horus is unlit and the TMR is lit.
Those are the only two models currently listed.
There is also a new mounting system to accommodate the CQBSS.
It's the Integral Mounting System (IMS) and it can be configured for 0 MOA, 20 MOA, or 30 MOA.
As far as pricing goes, the contract pricing is inline with the competition.
I would anticipate civilian prices to decrease as availability increases.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike from CS Tactical still hasn't been able to tell us in his view what tangible benefits and features the extra $1500 buys with the CQBSS over S&B's or Premier's 1-8 power offerings. $4k is a lot for a Leupold especially when S&B's unit has an SP of $2500. I think identifying what this extra $1500 buys would be very useful for would be customers of the CQBSS. </div></div>
As we've said before, we think 4k is a lot for the Leupold 1-8x. If you want a high end 1-8x system <span style="text-decoration: underline">right now</span>, the Leupold is the only one of the three that is available. We look forward to comparisons on the other scopes once they are available.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike from CS Tactical still hasn't been able to tell us in his view what tangible benefits and features the extra $1500 buys with the CQBSS over S&B's or Premier's 1-8 power offerings. $4k is a lot for a Leupold especially when S&B's unit has an SP of $2500. I think identifying what this extra $1500 buys would be very useful for would be customers of the CQBSS. </div></div>
As we've said before, we think 4k is a lot for the Leupold 1-8x. If you want a high end 1-8x system <span style="text-decoration: underline">right now</span>, the Leupold is the only one of the three that is available. We look forward to comparisons on the other scopes once they are available.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Dr Phil, who is the competittion, that the pricing is inline with, there isn't an actual contract up for bids for this, is there, Leupold was previously awaded a contract for R&D only. And something else, as for Leupold winning the contract for the scope on the M24E1, apparently they were actually the only bidder, can anyone comfirm this.
Dr Phil, who is the competittion, that the pricing is inline with, there isn't an actual contract up for bids for this, is there, Leupold was previously awaded a contract for R&D only. And something else, as for Leupold winning the contract for the scope on the M24E1, apparently they were actually the only bidder, can anyone comfirm this.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
The price is inline with S&B, Premier, Hensoldt, and USO.
I realize that there are not any optics available currently that have the same features.
The comment was referring to what their listed federal pricing compared to those other products.
As you can imagine it is not the 4K that the retail market is paying.
Just straight capitalism at work.
They don't have the supply to meet the demand, so they charge what the market will bear where they need to slow sales.
Knowing how Federal contracting works, it is nice to see that they are not gouging the government.
Since .mil requested the product and Leupold is the only manufacture currently able to meet the contract requirements, they could be charging a lot more than they are.
Ultimately it is a very smart business move to show good faith.
That goes along way towards maintaining the working relationship.
Without having first hand knowledge of this acquisition, it looks like it followed the new procurement model which puts the burden of itemizing the contract requirements of the contactors that choose to compete.
It is a great way for the government to save money, but since it puts much more risk on the competing contractors, participation can be limited to those that can afford the R&D loss if they don't get the contract.
Bottom line, .gov identifies a need and solicits for a solution.
Bidding companies develop a solution and provide a bid for it.
There can be provisions built in to provide funding to the bidding companies if they are able to sufficiently demonstrate their ability to develop a solution within a predetermined time frame.
This is not always the case though.
You can see how risky this type of thing could be for a company.
(Sorry, having had to sit through a week long class on this recently I felt compelled to share.)
The price is inline with S&B, Premier, Hensoldt, and USO.
I realize that there are not any optics available currently that have the same features.
The comment was referring to what their listed federal pricing compared to those other products.
As you can imagine it is not the 4K that the retail market is paying.
Just straight capitalism at work.
They don't have the supply to meet the demand, so they charge what the market will bear where they need to slow sales.
Knowing how Federal contracting works, it is nice to see that they are not gouging the government.
Since .mil requested the product and Leupold is the only manufacture currently able to meet the contract requirements, they could be charging a lot more than they are.
Ultimately it is a very smart business move to show good faith.
That goes along way towards maintaining the working relationship.
Without having first hand knowledge of this acquisition, it looks like it followed the new procurement model which puts the burden of itemizing the contract requirements of the contactors that choose to compete.
It is a great way for the government to save money, but since it puts much more risk on the competing contractors, participation can be limited to those that can afford the R&D loss if they don't get the contract.
Bottom line, .gov identifies a need and solicits for a solution.
Bidding companies develop a solution and provide a bid for it.
There can be provisions built in to provide funding to the bidding companies if they are able to sufficiently demonstrate their ability to develop a solution within a predetermined time frame.
This is not always the case though.
You can see how risky this type of thing could be for a company.
(Sorry, having had to sit through a week long class on this recently I felt compelled to share.)
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
Dr Phil, I certainly don't agree with your analysis, the mentioned products Premier, S&B are approx $1500 less than Leupold, and reportedly are exceptional as well. Hensoldt doesn't currently make a comparable product so we can leave them out. Of course these scopes are not the same as the MK8 but they are quality products. Leupold won an R&D contract several years ago to develope this type of scope,(as mentioned in my post), I don't think the new standards applied to that contract, but I totally agree its the smart way for the government to go. As mentioned in Lowlights post the military had came back with design changes based on what was orginally offered and Leupold obliged resulting in this fine optic. But as mentioned in a postings in this thread, many Arms rooms across this nation and overseas are filled with a lot of quality optics, I for one was wondering what niche this scope was going to to fill, especially at the $4000 price tag and how many actual units the government was going to order, if in fact they get around to ordering any, it is my understanding that to date Leupold has no contract for the MK8, except for the orignal R&D one. Leupold has gotten smarter, they had to in order to win future military contracts, the creation of Leupold Tactical being a creative step, the recent hiring of Estadt, even having Frank tour the facility and listen to his comments, shows they are making changes. I think the days of a manfacturer price gouging are behind us, Leupold purportedly being the sole bidder for the M24E1 scope and the scopes price show this.
Dr Phil, I certainly don't agree with your analysis, the mentioned products Premier, S&B are approx $1500 less than Leupold, and reportedly are exceptional as well. Hensoldt doesn't currently make a comparable product so we can leave them out. Of course these scopes are not the same as the MK8 but they are quality products. Leupold won an R&D contract several years ago to develope this type of scope,(as mentioned in my post), I don't think the new standards applied to that contract, but I totally agree its the smart way for the government to go. As mentioned in Lowlights post the military had came back with design changes based on what was orginally offered and Leupold obliged resulting in this fine optic. But as mentioned in a postings in this thread, many Arms rooms across this nation and overseas are filled with a lot of quality optics, I for one was wondering what niche this scope was going to to fill, especially at the $4000 price tag and how many actual units the government was going to order, if in fact they get around to ordering any, it is my understanding that to date Leupold has no contract for the MK8, except for the orignal R&D one. Leupold has gotten smarter, they had to in order to win future military contracts, the creation of Leupold Tactical being a creative step, the recent hiring of Estadt, even having Frank tour the facility and listen to his comments, shows they are making changes. I think the days of a manfacturer price gouging are behind us, Leupold purportedly being the sole bidder for the M24E1 scope and the scopes price show this.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
mjh....a quick point.
In theory Premier and S&B are $1500 less, but the $4k price tag is just an MSRP number, there isn't a single soul that I know of that paid that. Heck they are advertised here for $3300. I'm sure the .gov pays MUCH less. And the Premier and S&B aren't available, so maybe they'll raise their price when they finally do come to market. You're really just guessing at the price difference since only one is actually being sold right now.
mjh....a quick point.
In theory Premier and S&B are $1500 less, but the $4k price tag is just an MSRP number, there isn't a single soul that I know of that paid that. Heck they are advertised here for $3300. I'm sure the .gov pays MUCH less. And the Premier and S&B aren't available, so maybe they'll raise their price when they finally do come to market. You're really just guessing at the price difference since only one is actually being sold right now.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
A little update, US Special Operations Command bought twenty MK8 scopes and mounts from a private vendor not Leupold last June for $74000, this contract was awarded to the lowest bidder, five other vendors submitted bids.
A little update, US Special Operations Command bought twenty MK8 scopes and mounts from a private vendor not Leupold last June for $74000, this contract was awarded to the lowest bidder, five other vendors submitted bids.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
mjh,
You fail to read between the lines.
The CQBSS is listed with .gov pricing for those with access.
That pricing is inline with the other manufactures.
mjh,
You fail to read between the lines.
The CQBSS is listed with .gov pricing for those with access.
That pricing is inline with the other manufactures.
Re: Leupold 1.1-8x24 Mark 8 CQBSS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike from CS Tactical still hasn't been able to tell us in his view what tangible benefits and features the extra $1500 buys with the CQBSS over S&B's or Premier's 1-8 power offerings. $4k is a lot for a Leupold especially when S&B's unit has an SP of $2500. I think identifying what this extra $1500 buys would be very useful for would be customers of the CQBSS. </div></div>
As we've said before, we think 4k is a lot for the Leupold 1-8x. If you want a high end 1-8x system <span style="text-decoration: underline">right now</span>, the Leupold is the only one of the three that is available. We look forward to comparisons on the other scopes once they are available.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST </div></div> IOR makes a 1.5-8x26 with a 35mm tube that has been out for a while. So the Leupold is not the only one on the market.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike from CS Tactical still hasn't been able to tell us in his view what tangible benefits and features the extra $1500 buys with the CQBSS over S&B's or Premier's 1-8 power offerings. $4k is a lot for a Leupold especially when S&B's unit has an SP of $2500. I think identifying what this extra $1500 buys would be very useful for would be customers of the CQBSS. </div></div>
As we've said before, we think 4k is a lot for the Leupold 1-8x. If you want a high end 1-8x system <span style="text-decoration: underline">right now</span>, the Leupold is the only one of the three that is available. We look forward to comparisons on the other scopes once they are available.
Thanks,
Mason @ CST </div></div> IOR makes a 1.5-8x26 with a 35mm tube that has been out for a while. So the Leupold is not the only one on the market.
