Rifle Scopes Leupold + Horus Reticles
- Thread starter sscoyote
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Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
Kinda ignorant, but what is CS? They have the horus in the ER/T line of scopes with mil/mil adjustments.
Kinda ignorant, but what is CS? They have the horus in the ER/T line of scopes with mil/mil adjustments.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
Man--that was fast J. Shoulda' just wrote Custom Shop--sorry. I've got the 8.5-25x Mk4 TMR and want a very precise ballistic reticle for hunting. I also heard they were considering the DTAC reticle, but haven't heard any more on that 1 for awhile.
Man--that was fast J. Shoulda' just wrote Custom Shop--sorry. I've got the 8.5-25x Mk4 TMR and want a very precise ballistic reticle for hunting. I also heard they were considering the DTAC reticle, but haven't heard any more on that 1 for awhile.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
"...very precise ballistic reticle" is an oxymoron.
There are no very precise ballistic reticles, because a ballistic reticle, like a BDC (ballistic drop compensation) knob, is calculated accurately only under a single set of atmospheric conditions with a single load.
Change the conditions or the load, and it's not precise any more.
Learn to use the TMR you have, and you'll save money.
For ranges of 600 yards or less, memorize your dope. Beyond 600 yards, you're going to have to compensate for air density - temperature, relative humidity, and atmospheric pressure - as well as muzzle velocity changes with temperature.
If you don't hunt beyond 600 yards, your problem is much simpler. Learn to use the reticle for holdovers and/or holdunders, and you're done. See:
Calculating Holdovers and Holdunders
added: BTW, the Horus is not a ballistic reticle. It's just an extended mil reticle with wind holds.
"...very precise ballistic reticle" is an oxymoron.
There are no very precise ballistic reticles, because a ballistic reticle, like a BDC (ballistic drop compensation) knob, is calculated accurately only under a single set of atmospheric conditions with a single load.
Change the conditions or the load, and it's not precise any more.
Learn to use the TMR you have, and you'll save money.
For ranges of 600 yards or less, memorize your dope. Beyond 600 yards, you're going to have to compensate for air density - temperature, relative humidity, and atmospheric pressure - as well as muzzle velocity changes with temperature.
If you don't hunt beyond 600 yards, your problem is much simpler. Learn to use the reticle for holdovers and/or holdunders, and you're done. See:
Calculating Holdovers and Holdunders
added: BTW, the Horus is not a ballistic reticle. It's just an extended mil reticle with wind holds.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
Gotchya' Lindy, i also use many rangefinding reticles as a repeating interval BDC-type reticle. but i like more direct windage compensation in my reticles. I know that beyond ~600 or so air density chnages become a factor for any kind of trajectory compensation. I use a MOA rule though. I figure that i can't hold better than MOA under most field conditions consistently anyway, and most of my longer range shooting is on 6" tgt. coyotes, therefore 600 yds. is my limit. I'm not sure what the Horus subtensions are based off of and i know it's one of the finer subtension systems anyway. Doesn't matter to me since i'll work with any subtension i can get that's finer than a couple MOA or a mil., 1/4 mil, .2, .36 mil. Doesn't make any difference to me. Reticles that subtend to .5 mil or better can be applied very accurately to ~600 yds.+/- once broken down into tenths of total subtension.
I've read your systems many times and like them.
Here is the system that i use for hunting--
www.ottllc.com/specialtypistols/sp20.pdf
Gotchya' Lindy, i also use many rangefinding reticles as a repeating interval BDC-type reticle. but i like more direct windage compensation in my reticles. I know that beyond ~600 or so air density chnages become a factor for any kind of trajectory compensation. I use a MOA rule though. I figure that i can't hold better than MOA under most field conditions consistently anyway, and most of my longer range shooting is on 6" tgt. coyotes, therefore 600 yds. is my limit. I'm not sure what the Horus subtensions are based off of and i know it's one of the finer subtension systems anyway. Doesn't matter to me since i'll work with any subtension i can get that's finer than a couple MOA or a mil., 1/4 mil, .2, .36 mil. Doesn't make any difference to me. Reticles that subtend to .5 mil or better can be applied very accurately to ~600 yds.+/- once broken down into tenths of total subtension.
I've read your systems many times and like them.
Here is the system that i use for hunting--
www.ottllc.com/specialtypistols/sp20.pdf
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
All the horus scopes I've seen are subtended to .2 mils except the 1-4 talon which is .5
I still believe that no matter what caliber gun you shoot or optic you run, you can benefit from the atrag pda, and a kestrel 4000. It'll truly take shooting to the next level.
All the horus scopes I've seen are subtended to .2 mils except the 1-4 talon which is .5
I still believe that no matter what caliber gun you shoot or optic you run, you can benefit from the atrag pda, and a kestrel 4000. It'll truly take shooting to the next level.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
Leupold will have the H27 reticle available in thier new Mark 8 CQBSS 1.1-8X24 (34mm tube) sometime soon according to Steve Degregorio with Leupold. I just got one with the new M-TMR reticle. SUPER NICE!!!
Leupold will have the H27 reticle available in thier new Mark 8 CQBSS 1.1-8X24 (34mm tube) sometime soon according to Steve Degregorio with Leupold. I just got one with the new M-TMR reticle. SUPER NICE!!!
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">92 posts in 2 days? WOW! J.J. </div></div>
It's like the return of Larry, but with a better attitude
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">92 posts in 2 days? WOW! J.J. </div></div>
It's like the return of Larry, but with a better attitude
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
A Horus reticle isn't worth the extra money.
I have one. In a USO. It's nice. But I can put a follow-up shot on target just as quickly with any Mil Dot reticle.
Save the money on the reticle and use it to buy a better scope.
A Horus reticle isn't worth the extra money.
I have one. In a USO. It's nice. But I can put a follow-up shot on target just as quickly with any Mil Dot reticle.
Save the money on the reticle and use it to buy a better scope.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
I used a scope with a Horus reticle for three years, and came to the same conclusion. In addition, you can hold over from a 100 yard zero out to 600 yards with any mil reticle with 5 mils of marks below the main crosshairs, which is the distance range where you generally may need speed and don't have time to dial.
Those who might not be sure how to do that might find this illuminating: Calculating Holdovers and Holdunders
As he said, save your money.
I used a scope with a Horus reticle for three years, and came to the same conclusion. In addition, you can hold over from a 100 yard zero out to 600 yards with any mil reticle with 5 mils of marks below the main crosshairs, which is the distance range where you generally may need speed and don't have time to dial.
Those who might not be sure how to do that might find this illuminating: Calculating Holdovers and Holdunders
As he said, save your money.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
I'm not doubting your skill with a mil dot. You can get good with anything if you apply yourself and practice.
But,
It is my opinion that the horus is worth the money. The reason I like the horus more, is that it comforms to our style of shooting. We virtually hold for everything. The only thing that is normally dialed is night vision, suppressor shifts and really long shots that require extra mils in the scope. Because of this the .2 mil subtended reticle allows for extremely accurate aiming. It also allows us to hold winds to .1 mil. It also conforms to our rapid engagement techniques and allows us to engage multiple tgts quickly and accuratly at various ranges without touching our scope or breaking cheek-stock weld.
These are some of the reasons we like the horus so much.
I'm not doubting your skill with a mil dot. You can get good with anything if you apply yourself and practice.
But,
It is my opinion that the horus is worth the money. The reason I like the horus more, is that it comforms to our style of shooting. We virtually hold for everything. The only thing that is normally dialed is night vision, suppressor shifts and really long shots that require extra mils in the scope. Because of this the .2 mil subtended reticle allows for extremely accurate aiming. It also allows us to hold winds to .1 mil. It also conforms to our rapid engagement techniques and allows us to engage multiple tgts quickly and accuratly at various ranges without touching our scope or breaking cheek-stock weld.
These are some of the reasons we like the horus so much.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
I use scopes with the Premier Gen II mildot reticle. I can hold that reticle to 0.1 mil, which is the same accuracy I'd have while dialing on a scope with 0.1 mil clicks.
The Horus is a great reticle for people with no experience with holding - but that's a skill which is not difficult to learn.
With a .308, I can put a 600 yard zero on the scope, and shoot anything out to about 925 yards. But, generally, I find targets beyond 600 yards allow time to dial if I wish.
And I don't have to enrich HorusVision, which is an added bonus.
I use scopes with the Premier Gen II mildot reticle. I can hold that reticle to 0.1 mil, which is the same accuracy I'd have while dialing on a scope with 0.1 mil clicks.
The Horus is a great reticle for people with no experience with holding - but that's a skill which is not difficult to learn.
With a .308, I can put a 600 yard zero on the scope, and shoot anything out to about 925 yards. But, generally, I find targets beyond 600 yards allow time to dial if I wish.
And I don't have to enrich HorusVision, which is an added bonus.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sscoyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know that beyond ~600 or so</div></div>
Didn't you say you wanted it for hunting? What are you hunting at 600 yards? The only thing I've seen at that range were Elk and they are so stupid you can fire 2-3 times before they even look at you.
edit: nvm coyotes? damn...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sscoyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know that beyond ~600 or so</div></div>
Didn't you say you wanted it for hunting? What are you hunting at 600 yards? The only thing I've seen at that range were Elk and they are so stupid you can fire 2-3 times before they even look at you.
edit: nvm coyotes? damn...
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
I suppose you are right. And with a mil dot scope you can get 10 Mils of hold by dialing on 17.2 MOA or 5 mils. this moves your 100 meter zero up 5 mils above your crosshairs. then you just use your mil holds from that line.
Once I gain more experience I might be able to hold and mil accuratly to within .1 mil in a .5 mil graduated scope.
But I'm not at that level yet. Milling a 12" plate is much easier with a .2 mil graduated scope. And the average human is 12" from their collar bone to the top of their head. And once again our Rapid engagement techniques are based off of a 100 meter zero. In a 15 power scope with an H58 I have roughly 14mils. That'll get me out past 1000meters on a 20" .308 without touching anything. Also the wind formula we use gives your hold to the nearest .1 mil.
If you are already holding over 4 mils from your crosshairs in a mil dot scope than it is a shot in the dark to hold, say, R1.8 mils. In my opinion there are already enough variables in long range engagments to have to start guessing the accuracy of elevation and wind holds.
Like I said The horus suits our style of multiple tgt, rapid engagement, various range type shooting.
I suppose you are right. And with a mil dot scope you can get 10 Mils of hold by dialing on 17.2 MOA or 5 mils. this moves your 100 meter zero up 5 mils above your crosshairs. then you just use your mil holds from that line.
Once I gain more experience I might be able to hold and mil accuratly to within .1 mil in a .5 mil graduated scope.
But I'm not at that level yet. Milling a 12" plate is much easier with a .2 mil graduated scope. And the average human is 12" from their collar bone to the top of their head. And once again our Rapid engagement techniques are based off of a 100 meter zero. In a 15 power scope with an H58 I have roughly 14mils. That'll get me out past 1000meters on a 20" .308 without touching anything. Also the wind formula we use gives your hold to the nearest .1 mil.
If you are already holding over 4 mils from your crosshairs in a mil dot scope than it is a shot in the dark to hold, say, R1.8 mils. In my opinion there are already enough variables in long range engagments to have to start guessing the accuracy of elevation and wind holds.
Like I said The horus suits our style of multiple tgt, rapid engagement, various range type shooting.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.J. McQuade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We virtually hold for everything. The only thing that is normally dialed is night vision, suppressor shifts and really long shots that require extra mils in the scope.</div></div>Horus and an illuminated reticle don't go well together.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.J. McQuade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We virtually hold for everything. The only thing that is normally dialed is night vision, suppressor shifts and really long shots that require extra mils in the scope.</div></div>Horus and an illuminated reticle don't go well together.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
You are correct. I dislike illuminated reticles. especially if you are going to put some sort of NV infront of my scope anyway. It's one extra thing to go wrong, battery cap to fall off, place for water to get in. And on some of them it makes the reticle considerably thicker.
You are correct. I dislike illuminated reticles. especially if you are going to put some sort of NV infront of my scope anyway. It's one extra thing to go wrong, battery cap to fall off, place for water to get in. And on some of them it makes the reticle considerably thicker.
Re: Leupold + Horus Reticles
I'm out to get coyotes with the fastest, most accurate reticle system i can find. I've use everything from simple plex to TK Lee, to the 22 Long Rifle Rapid Reticle recald. for my AR load, and loved it.
I'm not dialing for coyotes, they're too mobile for that. Believe me i've been there and done that and won't go back. I'll never dial again for big game or coyotes out to 600 yds. when my reticle system works just fine. Subtension holds to .1 mil accuracy is more than enough to 600 yds. Heck I've been using 2 different 3 MOA reticles--1 TK Lee and the old Bushnell Ballistic reticle and don't have any problems with it, EXCEPT indirect windage application the further down the reticle i go, and i would rather have a finer subtension tree reticle system. The 1st shot last season on a coyote using a 6.5 WSM XP-100 was with Darrell Holland's HUMR reticle at 435 yds. using 1.5 mil. hold, and i was happy as a lark. I can apply and adapt reticle subtension. It's what i love.
I'm out to get coyotes with the fastest, most accurate reticle system i can find. I've use everything from simple plex to TK Lee, to the 22 Long Rifle Rapid Reticle recald. for my AR load, and loved it.
I'm not dialing for coyotes, they're too mobile for that. Believe me i've been there and done that and won't go back. I'll never dial again for big game or coyotes out to 600 yds. when my reticle system works just fine. Subtension holds to .1 mil accuracy is more than enough to 600 yds. Heck I've been using 2 different 3 MOA reticles--1 TK Lee and the old Bushnell Ballistic reticle and don't have any problems with it, EXCEPT indirect windage application the further down the reticle i go, and i would rather have a finer subtension tree reticle system. The 1st shot last season on a coyote using a 6.5 WSM XP-100 was with Darrell Holland's HUMR reticle at 435 yds. using 1.5 mil. hold, and i was happy as a lark. I can apply and adapt reticle subtension. It's what i love.
