Levels

rickp

rickp

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 24, 2008
453
2
Miami, Florida
www.threatsolutionsgroup.com
#1
I just got a level on my stick, but I had to take the scope off to put it on.

Now i noticed that I have a 1 deg difference between my stoc being level and my scope.
The cope reticle and the new level are level so right now once I;m on target and my reticle is level and backup by the additional level, my stock is about 1 deg off.

Is that a big deal? My understanding is that as long as the reticle is level we're good to go.
 
#3
Re: Levels

What??? If I'm understanding that middle part right... When your new level on your rail, when centered, your reticle is canted left or right 1 degree.

Are you sure the scope is 100% level? What level did you buy for the rail??
 
#5
Re: Levels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1^ of cant can cause a 1" shift at 100y.... multiply that out... </div></div>

Really, WOW !

That is amazing you figured that out, you can subtend 1 degree of cant and it equals 1" at 100 yards, awesome.

Especially when scope manufactures can barely guarantee 2 to 3 degrees as they consider that spec. I think 1 degree is less than 1/10th of inch.

This is how the BS starts ...
 
#9
Re: Levels

I would venture to say that the 99% of scopes mounted on rifles do not have zero cant. I'm glad your eyes can discern the difference between zero and one degree, because mine sure can't.

By the way until someone comes up with a scope that electronically tells you have zero cant while you are aiming, you are probably canting the rifle to some degree anyway no matter how straight the reticle is.

You're unnecessarily splitting hairs over one degree of cant. Just shoot it.
 
#11
Re: Levels

Where a small cant can really screw you up is when you're using elevation holds. A one degree cant when the target is on the crosshairs is minimal but a one degree cant when you're holding over or under a few mils can be dramatic. I've found this to be the case when I run multiple distance drills such as dialing in my 700 yard dope and engaging targets at 600, 700, and 800 yards using holds.
 
#12
Re: Levels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1^ of cant can cause a 1" shift at 100y.... multiply that out... </div></div>

Really, WOW !

That is amazing you figured that out, you can subtend 1 degree of cant and it equals 1" at 100 yards, awesome.

Especially when scope manufactures can barely guarantee 2 to 3 degrees as they consider that spec. I think 1 degree is less than 1/10th of inch.

This is how the BS starts ... </div></div>

just repeating this..http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1758/Product/BUBBLE-LEVEL

Levels The Rifle Not the Scope

Improves accuracy by ensuring the rifle is level before each shot. Even the smallest amount of cant will move bullet strike by 1/2 an inch or more at 100 yards: results in missed targets or wounded game. Attaches directly to a scope base, remains visible to your non-sighting eye so you can quickly check the level without moving your eye from the target. Fits Weaver-style base.

and this..

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=8739/psize=48/Product/ANTI-CANT-DEVICE

" If you sighted in carefully at 100 yards with the crosshairs level, then canted the gun just six degrees you'd move the next shot over 1/2""
 
#14
Re: Levels

RIng,

Read what you wrote the first time, about 1 degree being 1" and then what you posted from the "Advertisement"...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">" If you sighted in carefully at 100 yards with the crosshairs level, then canted the gun just six degrees you'd move the next shot over 1/2""</div></div>

6 degrees is much different from 1 degree, and if 6 degrees is a 1/2" how is 1 degree a full inch...

This is why... an advertisement to get you to buy something is not Gospel.
 
#16
Re: Levels

I just got one of those inexpensive $15 levels like the one in the link above to Brownells....got mine from SWFA. Are they worth the dough, or should I have shelled out ~$100 for the USO type one?

Anyway, after attaching it, I found out my scope was not level like I'd thought. The rifle is not level on the bipod, or so the level says, either. I only have a Harris bipod that does not swivel or cant to either side.
 
#17
Re: Levels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got a level on my stick, but I had to take the scope off to put it on.

Now i noticed that I have a 1 deg difference between my stoc being level and my scope.
The cope reticle and the new level are level so right now once I;m on target and my reticle is level and backup by the additional level, my stock is about 1 deg off.

Is that a big deal? My understanding is that as long as the reticle is level we're good to go. </div></div>

STOCK cant doesn't matter at all, unless it causes you to cant the rifle because of a comfort issue. Depending on your stock it could be extremely difficult to find a true surface to check level on anyway. The bore is what matters, usually one references off the scope mount making the huge assumption that it is centered and square to the bore. In hopes that with the scope level the vertical of the reticle perfectly bisects the bore.
 
#18
Re: Levels

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

STOCK cant doesn't matter at all, unless it causes you to cant the rifle because of a comfort issue. Depending on your stock it could be extremely difficult to find a true surface to check level on anyway. The bore is what matters, usually one references off the scope mount making the huge assumption that it is centered and square to the bore. In hopes that with the scope level the vertical of the reticle perfectly bisects the bore. </div></div>

Beef has touched on a the problem with which I have always been concerned. In the past I have tried the plumb bob method to align the vertical axis of the scope and bore. My issue was I could never be sure I hadn't messed up the bore sight while messing with the scope sight. So from there I transitioned to the feeler gage method. But again there are concerns. Did the reciever manufacturer put the mounting holes exactly a TDC? Did the rail manufacturer make the rail symetrical? Did the rings manufacturer do his thing correctly? As the price of the toys got more and more expensive I began to rely more on the precision of the manufacturer and not worry so much.

Recently I discovered a laser bore sighter that fits in the chamber end of the barrel. I'm having a ball aligning laser grips and laser pointers. I can see where this could be very useful in verifying the alignment of scopes and the bore.
 
#19
Re: Levels

After getting my level set up, it made me realize/notice that it's been my bipod all along that's been "un-level". I leveled up the bubble-level with my bipod, trusting that the level itself is accurate, thus having to adjust one of my bipod's feet out maybe a quarter inch. Then I re leveled my reticle. All seems good now.
 
#20
Re: Levels

It has been my experience with all rifle mounted levels that consistancy is once again key. I use a USO swivel level. I have no idea if it is 100% correct, I doubt it is. What I am sure of though, is how I read it. Use your level as a point of reference. Line up with the same sight picture each time and your zero will be true for you.
YMMV, Happy New Year, Rob
 
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