Maggie’s Lever Action Guide
- Thread starter SmartDonkey
- Start date
i just have never warmed up to the henrys. and that is a pity, because they are made about an hour north of me. something about them i just have a hard time warming up to. lots of guys love them, and that's great. but there is something about them i just don't care for.
My brother is selling his JM Marlin 1894 .357 Mag. I told him he was crazy but he just doesn’t shoot it. Plus, he wants to buy some fancy new binoculars. He’s a zero-sum kind of guy.
he should do pretty well on it right now. probably would have done a smidge better on it before ruger bought them up, but if he is going to send it down the road, top dollar will probably come right now.
i am one of those waiting for ruger to release the 1894. will be buying one when they do. but, i am also waiting (and lobbying) smith and wesson to release a L frame 41 magnum 5 shot.
i am one of those waiting for ruger to release the 1894. will be buying one when they do. but, i am also waiting (and lobbying) smith and wesson to release a L frame 41 magnum 5 shot.
I've got a marlin guide gun 45-70- it's a neat little rifle for stashing in tight places and thick brush hunting, but the 357 gets shot about 10x as often. The only correct answer is all of them.
I love my Henry with 1-4 and can for dialing subsonics, but I wouldn't mind a second in wood for irons and no can.
Still got my eyes peeled for the right ol beat up 30-30.
I love my Henry with 1-4 and can for dialing subsonics, but I wouldn't mind a second in wood for irons and no can.
Still got my eyes peeled for the right ol beat up 30-30.
a guy can forget about the 30wcf if he aint careful. i had a TC contender in 3030 that i loaded with spitzer bullets that was no joke. had a winchester 94 in one too, never really shot it much and ended up rehoming it. levers are a hoot.
when i was 11 (i was extremely small) i had a 410 and my pops and i were out squirrel hunting. caught one running up a tree and i hammered him. he flinched, and froze. i didnt know what to do, dad told me to hit him again. so i did. squirrel just hung there. sent a 3rd shot. still hung there. this was at about 30 ft.
dad handed me his winchester 1300 12gauge and said "try this one" (gun was longer than i was tall). i managed to shoulder it, aim, and somehow hit the squirrel with it. squirrel was blasted 6 feet off that tree.
that was the end of me using a 410. i am sure it was probably small shot...probably 9s. if i had been using 4s, probably would have been different.
all that being said, i'd be damned if i ever grabbed a 410 over something else....even a 22lr. i did read a story where a homeowner stopped a charging coupe raiding griz with one shot from his 410....go buy a lottery ticket.
it'd be a cool gun, but other than dusting starlings out of the garden, useless.
nope. i hit him every shot. he would flinch at every shot, and you could see the bark react all around him. he was hit each time, and hurt, which is why he stopped running. he just hung there. at the time, i was shooting clay pigeons with that 410. i'm not going to tell you i went 25 for 25....but i did pretty good all things considered. a squirrel hanging on a tree, stationary, at 30 feet was about as challenging as pissing and hitting the ground.
now with that giant 12 gauge, i was pretty small, and the gun was long and heavy...i struggled with that one at first. but i still made some pretty damn good shots with it. my uncle and i were pushing a brush pile for rabbits when one lit off behind him. he spun and shot twice, and missed. the rabbit ran up on a hill and stopped about 90 yards away. i raised up, and right before i fired, my uncle said "it's too far". i touched it off anyway, and knocked the rabbit over dead. he couldnt believe it.
another time, a grouse kicked up and was flying down the logging road in front of my dad and i, and i knocked it out of the air at about 70 yards out.
my grandpa used to have me shoot his old single shot 22 remington at empty 22 cases. dad had a buddy come over one day, and we were out in the yard shooting. brian bet me that he could outshoot me with his 22....it was an autoloader of some type with a tube magazine. we set up 10 empty 22 cases at about 20 yards. he was taking the tube out of his gun, to load it. i started shooting. i had 7 down before he even got his gun loaded. and here is the rifle....
i may have been scrawny, but i could shoot pretty well.
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Anybody that's killing rabbits at 90 yards and flying grouse at 70 yards shouldn't need more than a .410 for a squirrel......just saying. Either that or your internal range finder has glitch.
back in those days, i didnt know what a practical range was. in my young mind, i could do anything with a little bit of luck.
these days, i use a 28 gauge and pass up a lot of shots. the blood lust is gone, and i have more respect than to take wild ass shots.
but anyone who thinks a 410 is good for defense, by all means, have at it. and, good luck!
these days, i use a 28 gauge and pass up a lot of shots. the blood lust is gone, and i have more respect than to take wild ass shots.
but anyone who thinks a 410 is good for defense, by all means, have at it. and, good luck!
I don’t understand the logic of a lever action with .410 slugs. Less powerful than most of the pistol rounds in a rifle and the shell length is more limiting on magazine capacity. Some of the multiple projectile loads developed for revolvers like the Judge might be interesting, but I’ve not seen reviews of them used in a rifle.
My 357 model 94 is so pleasantly quiet and cheep to shoot 39spl through
And I hit a gopher at 300 yards with a duplex reticle in a tasco scope...
Or the goose I knocked out of the air at 90+ yards that had 1 bb hole in the base of 1 wing...
Sometimes dumb luck wins out.
a couple years back, my buddy's dad dropped a turkey at a laser ranged 92 yards with his shotgun. couldnt even find a pellet in it. the rest of the story is, he missed it at 30 yards, 65 yards, and took a hail mary at the 92 yards which rolled it over instantly. that spawned the saying "there is a golden pellet in every shot".
shit happens. sometimes things go wrong...as with the squirrel. but, sometimes things go right. even when by all means of logic, they shouldn't.
you two might be decent guys....but all you've done here is show your ass. dont be assholes....the world has enough of them and we dont need more.
shit happens. sometimes things go wrong...as with the squirrel. but, sometimes things go right. even when by all means of logic, they shouldn't.
and that brings me to this.....two guys who weren't there, running their beaters about shit they do not have a clue about. basically, calling someone a liar for the sport of it.
you two might be decent guys....but all you've done here is show your ass. dont be assholes....the world has enough of them and we dont need more.
Just giving you a hard time bud. I once hit a rabbit from the hip with a 20G youth model 870. Rabbit was probably 50 feet away, I couldn't replicate that shot if my life depended on it, course when I was a kid, I used to practice hip shots with that little 870.
I’m getting ready to get the octagon barrel on my 45 Colt Henry Big Boy for that very reason. The rifle is beautiful but will never be a collector so I’ll have a case hardened receiver with octagon barrel with an Obsidian 45 suppressor….
That's exactly what I want to do!
Please share how it turns out. Who is doing the muzzle threading?
Recently got an old beat up Erma Werke lever .22lr that was so cheap that I couldn't leave it there.
Walked in to the local shop & the manager was looking over some trade in's, It was the pick of the bunch & when I saw the price & said I'll take that put my name on it & now I'll go have a wander around the shop to get what I came in here for.
It will be 6 weeks post shoulder surgery on Friday so the .22lr's be getting a run soon after that for a while.
Have also been lusting after a .357mag lever for no good reason other than I just want one.
Then maybe a 30/30, then maybe a 45/70 because everyone needs a dinosaur gun, then ???
More the better.
The lever action 12g gets a fair workout most hunting trips too.
We use lever action & straight pull shotguns in Aus due to our shit laws.
(I'm old enough to have had semi's pre 96 & miss those days)
Walked in to the local shop & the manager was looking over some trade in's, It was the pick of the bunch & when I saw the price & said I'll take that put my name on it & now I'll go have a wander around the shop to get what I came in here for.
It will be 6 weeks post shoulder surgery on Friday so the .22lr's be getting a run soon after that for a while.
Have also been lusting after a .357mag lever for no good reason other than I just want one.
Then maybe a 30/30, then maybe a 45/70 because everyone needs a dinosaur gun, then ???
More the better.
The lever action 12g gets a fair workout most hunting trips too.
We use lever action & straight pull shotguns in Aus due to our shit laws.
(I'm old enough to have had semi's pre 96 & miss those days)
I have a Henry Big Boy steel 357, no side load, it was a lot of fun for one summer, been awhile since I have shot it. I couldn't see both the sights and the target, so it got a rail and a red dot, cool, but now the cheek weld is wonky. I scoped it for a bit, 1-6 Leupold, it was accurate as heck at 300 yards, 125xtp's at 1850.
If I recall, run of the mill 110gr & 125gr 38 spec loads weren't a drop in fit, need to be loaded to 357 lengths to feed in my Henry. Screw that, I just download 110's, I saw no real cost savings with 38 spec. Rifle weighs 7lbs, and I am no cowboy action shooter.
If I recall, run of the mill 110gr & 125gr 38 spec loads weren't a drop in fit, need to be loaded to 357 lengths to feed in my Henry. Screw that, I just download 110's, I saw no real cost savings with 38 spec. Rifle weighs 7lbs, and I am no cowboy action shooter.
I favor Winchester and Marlin rifles. The 1892 is a superb light rifle with a very strong action. The newer ones made in Japan all have excellent craftsmanship.
I also prefer the .45 Colt cartridge over the .44-40. The 44-40 was much more popular in the black powder days because it had been in use for quite a while before the introduction of the .45 Colt. Also, Colt had a patent on their cartridge that prevented Winchester from using it in their rifles, or so the story goes... Once that patent expired the .45 became readily available in Winchester rifles and eclipsed the 44-40. Not a small reason was the availability of the .45 Colt Single Action Army revolver. You could then have the two best firearms of the time using the same cartridge...
Today the .45 Colt is much more widely available, and in a huge variety of loads. You can buy inexpensive cowboy "pipsqueak" loads for plinking and then take the same lightweight rifle to Alaska loaded with Grizzly ammo with a 300 grain hard cast bullet, +P @ 1250 FPS round for excellent Bear protection, or just putting meat on the table. And, you can carry a 4-inch barreled stainless Ruger Redhawk into the woods loaded with the same Grizzly loads, just like they did back in the day.
I recently bought a commemorative 1892 in .45 Colt. It is a very limited edition commemorating the 125th anniversary of the 1892. It is a beautiful rifle with great wood and an excellent fit and finish. I don't intend to shoot it much for obvious reasons. Here's a pic:
I also prefer the .45 Colt cartridge over the .44-40. The 44-40 was much more popular in the black powder days because it had been in use for quite a while before the introduction of the .45 Colt. Also, Colt had a patent on their cartridge that prevented Winchester from using it in their rifles, or so the story goes... Once that patent expired the .45 became readily available in Winchester rifles and eclipsed the 44-40. Not a small reason was the availability of the .45 Colt Single Action Army revolver. You could then have the two best firearms of the time using the same cartridge...
Today the .45 Colt is much more widely available, and in a huge variety of loads. You can buy inexpensive cowboy "pipsqueak" loads for plinking and then take the same lightweight rifle to Alaska loaded with Grizzly ammo with a 300 grain hard cast bullet, +P @ 1250 FPS round for excellent Bear protection, or just putting meat on the table. And, you can carry a 4-inch barreled stainless Ruger Redhawk into the woods loaded with the same Grizzly loads, just like they did back in the day.
I recently bought a commemorative 1892 in .45 Colt. It is a very limited edition commemorating the 125th anniversary of the 1892. It is a beautiful rifle with great wood and an excellent fit and finish. I don't intend to shoot it much for obvious reasons. Here's a pic:
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I love lever guns. My favorite is a Chiappa 1886 carbine chambered in .45-70. Followed by a navy arms (Rossi) 92 in .44-40. But very hard to find .44-40. All my saa are .45 colt. I like to keep it historically accurate I guess. The local gun shop has an original 1873 in 38-40 that I’ve been eyeballing.
what action ?
Just wanted to clarify on this for people who aren’t familiar with lever actions. The original Henry 1860 followed by the Winchester 1866, 1873 and 1876 are all known as toggle link actions. Rather than a locking bar the bolt is held in place by the toggle links as shown above.
This action type is inherently weaker than later designs and as such should only see low pressure loads similar to those generated by black powder cartridges. They can shoot .357 level cartridges however a steady diet of them can damage those links over time leading to excessive headspace and other issues.
The later Winchester Browning designs (1886, 1892, 1894, 1895) and Marlin designs are all built with actual locking lugs and are suitable for handling much higher pressure cartridges with no issues.
Yep. Waiting for Ruger to get off their ass and start producing 30-30s and .357s again instead of just focusing on the 45-70 like they are right now. I won't feel bad about cutting a barrel and threading it since its a new Ruger Marlin. Cant bring my self to ruin one of my classic Marlins.
the 1895 they made was threaded. i have no reason to think the other ones they release wont be.
Yeah. I see they have a few models that are threaded. I am just impatiently waiting for Ruger to get the rest of the catalog pumping out. For some damn reason I want a Marlin .357 that I can run suppressed and not the Henry.
idk that suppressing it is so important to me, but i want an 1894 357. line starts here!
This thread encouraged me to dig my 1894CB and 39M from the back of the safe and take them for a stroll - good times…
Had one in .44 mag, so I needed one in .357 mag as well...
Hey I don't make the rules.
Hey I don't make the rules.
I have 395gr pros in my 45 colt, I have not done the math on energy. How much heavier do they my 45-70 projectiles?
I bought a stainless Rossi with a 16” barrel in .357 mag. Love it.
Vaquero or Blackhawk loads? I considered running those 395 sub-x in an 1873 Winchester but in quickload the math didn’t work out without overpressure so I stuck to the 410s in my 1886 and they are adorable through a can.
I am running a big boy X, ran through several powders before landing on unique(out of what I own, probably a better powder for this out there). I'd have to check my book to see how many grains, but it was way under 10, I think 7 roughly. I really want to hit a coyote with it. The sheep I shot died rather quickly, was kinda uneventful. It hit him, he twitched, ran 5 yards and keeled over. No mess either. He was head on and I stuck it in his chest. Prob 10 or 15 yards.
Passed up a 45 colt Win Trapper in my youth. I was ignorant and thought I needed groceries 
Our little win 94 trapper in .44 mag now wears a Lyman peep sight and gets as much range time as any centerfire we have.
From mouse fart loads to Moose loads. All the youngsters in our clan have killed their first or their first few deer with it . The standard deer load is a cast Lee 310gr powder coated and moving fairly slow - 4 bang flops in a row with with daughter nephew and niece dropping deer on the edge of a large swamp in Northern MI that the locals used to call the death trap because of all the sink holes and quick sand and black muck.
A very very well designed and executed fun little carbine!
From mouse fart loads to Moose loads. All the youngsters in our clan have killed their first or their first few deer with it . The standard deer load is a cast Lee 310gr powder coated and moving fairly slow - 4 bang flops in a row with with daughter nephew and niece dropping deer on the edge of a large swamp in Northern MI that the locals used to call the death trap because of all the sink holes and quick sand and black muck.
A very very well designed and executed fun little carbine!
405gr is most common, but up to 500gr for heavy hunting loads pushing 1600 fps and 2900 ft/lbs energy. Take a look at Buffalo Bore's numbers by grain/rifle: https://buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=150
I have a Rossi 20" 44mag and I have a Henry X 44mag also. I took the plastic furniture off the X and replaced it with a set of Henry solid wood buttstock and fore end. It makes the rifle a little heavier but it's prettier now.
I realize that having a loading port on the side of the reciever and the mag tube is idiosy, but it's pretty nice to pull the mag tube to unload all nine rounds without chambering all of them to unload the rifle.
I realize that having a loading port on the side of the reciever and the mag tube is idiosy, but it's pretty nice to pull the mag tube to unload all nine rounds without chambering all of them to unload the rifle.
Those are pretty big! I bought this as a subsonic gun, and it does it well. I need to find a bullet mould for 400 gain pros. Buying the Hornady isn't cheap. Although they are super sexy.
1873 in 45lc gets my vote. The jap made winchesters are well put together, I hear lots of good things on the Italian repros as well on both ‘73 rifle and SAAs. Don’t exceed standard loads on the 73 action, it’s not designed to withstand the same loadings you can run through other actions or heavy framed revolvers. .45lc is a good “rabbit hole” round that can lend itself to exploring casting, black powder loading, etc.
i assume you know what you are doing, but those bullet weights are usually associated with .458 not .451. just on the off chance that you didnt know. some people see that .45 and just go with that. you could size it down, but i would think that much of a size down would wipe out your crimp groove and a good portion of your lube groove.
or maybe you have an oversized bore on your 45.
you probably already have a handle on it, but just in case.....be careful out there
That's a good point.
I've done a little research on loading the 395gr Cast Performance .452 WFNGC bullets in both .45 Colt and 454 Casull. It's really too long and heavy for any Colt load and even from a rifle barrel probably won't reach enough velocity to stabilize well. The 454 Casull is another story entirely. Out of a 16-20" barrel you should be able to get 1500 fps or more, which puts it right at or very close to traditional 45-70 ballistics. The nice thing is that a model 92 pattern 454 lever action rifle is a pound or two lighter than the typical Marlin 45-70 and will hold 3 or 4 more rounds - well, nice except for the recoil!
Original bullets for the 45-70 were 405 grains. Those same bullet sizes in modern guns, which are much stronger than the originals, with corresponding modern loads require quite a hefty recoil pad!
I know, I own a highly worked on Marlin 1895 that I had custom built for me by Turnbull Restorations and have shot it with very heavy loads. - Link and Pic:
Turnbull Restorations
It gets better. Garrett Cartridges makes incredibly powerful loads for the 45-70. Those loads will kill anything that walks on this planet. So Much so that Vince Lupo used those loads in Africa to shoot the "Big Six" over two years of safaris, just because he broke his leg on the first one. Those writings of great stories are here - Part 1 and Part 2:
Vince Lupe Parts 1 and 2
If you're a fan of this stuff I recommend you save those stories to disk, great writing and they wont be available online forever!
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I was speaking directly to his question of 45-70 bullet weights, but definitely agree one has to watch specific diameters when talking “.45” anything, certainly not all are equal.
I run 405 for the heaviest in my Henry 45-70 so far, might get a box of those Buffalo Bore 500s just to try and load up for grizzly country, but not going to lie I don’t much want to shoot something that heavy out of a non-braked 10# rifle, for both my rifle’s and my shoulder’s sake.
