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Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

Ratbert

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 18, 2007
2,342
1
47
Concord, NC
Somewhat amusing, though probably for different reasons to different people.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/

<span style="font-size: 14pt">Liberalism, atheism, male sexual exclusivity linked to IQ</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Political, religious and sexual behaviors may be reflections of intelligence, a new study finds.

Evolutionary psychologist Satoshi Kanazawa at the the London School of Economics and Political Science correlated data on these behaviors with IQ from a large national U.S. sample and found that, on average, people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs. This applied also to sexual exclusivity in men, but not in women. The findings will be published in the March 2010 issue of Social Psychology Quarterly.

The IQ differences, while statistically significant, are not stunning -- on the order of 6 to 11 points -- and the data should not be used to stereotype or make assumptions about people, experts say. But they show how certain patterns of identifying with particular ideologies develop, and how some people's behaviors come to be.

The reasoning is that sexual exclusivity in men, liberalism and atheism all go against what would be expected given humans' evolutionary past. In other words, none of these traits would have benefited our early human ancestors, but higher intelligence may be associated with them.

"The adoption of some evolutionarily novel ideas makes some sense in terms of moving the species forward," said George Washington University leadership professor James Bailey, who was not involved in the study. "It also makes perfect sense that more intelligent people -- people with, sort of, more intellectual firepower -- are likely to be the ones to do that."

Bailey also said that these preferences may stem from a desire to show superiority or elitism, which also has to do with IQ. In fact, aligning oneself with "unconventional" philosophies such as liberalism or atheism may be "ways to communicate to everyone that you're pretty smart," he said.

The study looked at a large sample from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health), which began with adolescents in grades 7-12 in the United States during the 1994-95 school year. The participants were interviewed as 18- to 28-year-olds from 2001 to 2002. The study also looked at the General Social Survey, another cross-national data collection source.

Kanazawa did not find that higher or lower intelligence predicted sexual exclusivity in women. This makes sense, because having one partner has always been advantageous to women, even thousands of years ago, meaning exclusivity is not a "new" preference.

For men, on the other hand, sexual exclusivity goes against the grain evolutionarily. With a goal of spreading genes, early men had multiple mates. Since women had to spend nine months being pregnant, and additional years caring for very young children, it made sense for them to want a steady mate to provide them resources.

Religion, the current theory goes, did not help people survive or reproduce necessarily, but goes along the lines of helping people to be paranoid, Kanazawa said. Assuming that, for example, a noise in the distance is a signal of a threat helped early humans to prepare in case of danger.

"It helps life to be paranoid, and because humans are paranoid, they become more religious, and they see the hands of God everywhere," Kanazawa said.

Participants who said they were atheists had an average IQ of 103 in adolescence, while adults who said they were religious averaged 97, the study found. Atheism "allows someone to move forward and speculate on life without any concern for the dogmatic structure of a religion," Bailey said.

"Historically, anything that's new and different can be seen as a threat in terms of the religious beliefs; almost all religious systems are about permanence," he noted.

The study takes the American view of liberal vs. conservative. It defines "liberal" in terms of concern for genetically nonrelated people and support for private resources that help those people. It does not look at other factors that play into American political beliefs, such as abortion, gun control and gay rights.

"Liberals are more likely to be concerned about total strangers; conservatives are likely to be concerned with people they associate with," he said.

Given that human ancestors had a keen interest in the survival of their offspring and nearest kin, the conservative approach -- looking out for the people around you first -- fits with the evolutionary picture more than liberalism, Kanazawa said. "It's unnatural for humans to be concerned about total strangers." he said.

The study found that young adults who said they were "very conservative" had an average adolescent IQ of 95, whereas those who said they were "very liberal" averaged 106.

It also makes sense that "conservatism" as a worldview of keeping things stable would be a safer approach than venturing toward the unfamiliar, Bailey said.

Neither Bailey nor Kanazawa identify themselves as liberal; Bailey is conservative and Kanazawa is "a strong libertarian."

Vegetarianism, while not strongly associated with IQ in this study, has been shown to be related to intelligence in previous research, Kanazawa said. This also fits into Bailey's idea that unconventional preferences appeal to people with higher intelligence, and can also be a means of showing superiority.

None of this means that the human species is evolving toward a future where these traits are the default, Kanazawa said.

"More intelligent people don't have more children, so moving away from the trajectory is not going to happen," he said.</div></div>
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"More intelligent people don't have more children, so moving away from the trajectory is not going to happen," he said.</div></div>

We wouldn't have had our second child if my wife had moved away from the trajectory.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"More intelligent people don't have more children, so moving away from the trajectory is not going to happen," he said.</div></div>

We wouldn't have had our second child if my wife had moved away from the trajectory. </div></div>

Good one
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

Friends:

Allow me to point out that religion and politics not related to firearms issues are subjects banned on this site, and this thread contains both.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

Hmm, sorry, figured it was more of a discussion of statistics.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

apply-evenly.jpg
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Friends:

Allow me to point out that religion and politics not related to firearms issues are subjects banned on this site, and this thread contains both. </div></div>

From the guy who has devil worshipers in his sig line
laugh.gif


Sorry Lindy, I couldn't reset
wink.gif
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

So if you're an athiest and a conservative, do the two balance each other out and you are of just plain normal intelligence?
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs.</div></div>

Higher IQ's generally indicate lack of common sense.

Eighty-three percent of people surveyed knew that ninety-seven percent of all statistics are flawed.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

I don't think you guys are reading anything but the heading. You should really read through it and see how they defined "liberalism". Their definition appears to not be political at all.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chuff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think you guys are reading anything but the heading. You should really read through it and see how they defined "liberalism". Their definition appears to not be political at all. </div></div>

Wait a minute. There's more to an article than the title?
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs.</div></div>

Higher IQ's generally indicate lack of common sense.

</div></div>

I must repsectfully disagree. Although "common sense" is not easily quantified, I have never observed a notable lack of what I perceive it to be in unusually intelligent people.

Conversely, I am certain I have never seen any evidence that it abounds in those with low IQ's.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fritz24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs.</div></div>

Higher IQ's generally indicate lack of common sense.

</div></div>

I must repsectfully disagree. Although "common sense" is not easily quantified, I have never observed a notable lack of what I perceive it to be in unusually intelligent people.

Conversely, I am certain I have never seen any evidence that it abounds in those with low IQ's.
</div></div>

That's just liberal nonsense. (Please say you see the humor in that).
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Neither Bailey nor <span style="text-decoration: underline">Kanazawa</span> identify themselves as liberal; Bailey is conservative and Kanazawa is "a strong libertarian."
</div></div>

I may be a trifle too stoopid but, Hello, I believe it is spelled <span style="font-size: 20pt">Kwanzaa</span>

Intersefectuals, hmmmf
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

Lame study in scope judging by the summary. If the actual study shows the distributions more widely it might be a good read.

My main concern is that measurable IQ in adolescents will vary widely by locale, as do beliefs. For example, if they were to take samples in Baltimore Md, they would find an average IQ of 80ish (as close to retarded as to normal) a high number of believers, and liberal values.

Cool measures would be distributions in geographic boundaries, at least for me, and see how they pan out within an area that is liberal, an area that is conservative, an area with lower IQ, etc. It's a big pie to slice up.

One of the amazing things to me has been that yes, in the middle zone of IQ distribution, religion is for dummies according to the numbers. That makes sense to me because people a little smarter are more likely to question and rebel against norms(but not necessarily reach the correct conclusion). However, almost uniformly, the big swinging dicks of chemistry and physics have been spiritually affiliated, and it's their ideas those kinda smart folks use to justify their disbelief. I think the same kinds of non-trends apply to many traits and beliefs.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

Every time we citizens divide ourselves against each other by knee jerk reactions, it takes a little something away from the deaths of all those that gave everything for us to be free, and inspires those who really run the world to laugh at us all.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

And I'm gonna go try to make babies with my Prius driving wife, even though I'm fixed (having kids these days does border on abuse).

BTW, next month I'm doing basic pistol taining for some liberal friends of hers that were engaged in rational conversation and surprisingly found some utility in the right to defend themselves......try it sometime, you may be surprised by the "other side"'s similarities.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fritz24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs.</div></div>

Higher IQ's generally indicate lack of common sense.

</div></div>

I must respectfully disagree. Although "common sense" is not easily quantified, I have never observed a notable lack of what I perceive it to be in unusually intelligent people.

Conversely, I am certain I have never seen any evidence that it abounds in those with low IQ's.


</div></div>
And I must respectfully disagree with you on your first point, As I have seen a very notable lack of "common sense" in people with a unusually high IQ's, In fact I have also seen an amazingly common occurrence between poor handwriting, poor spelling and high IQ. With that being said poor handwriting and poor spelling are not known indicators for an unusually high IQ. And I completely agree with your second point.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And I'm gonna go try to make babies with my Prius driving wife, even though I'm fixed (having kids these days does border on abuse).

BTW, next month I'm doing basic pistol taining for some liberal friends of hers that were engaged in rational conversation and surprisingly found some utility in the right to defend themselves......try it sometime, you may be surprised by the "other side"'s similarities. </div></div>

You mean there's actually a middle ground? Nah! Not according to most people.

The way I see it almost everyone I talk to these days is either a dumb-fuck liberal, or a fucking wacko conservative. If you disagree with one small iota of their entire point of view, you're labeled as whatever the other side is carte blanche.

When did we become a nation of zealots? The left and right are <span style="font-weight: bold">BOTH</span> full of shit.

Until we all can figure out some sort of middle ground on which we can agree with every issue, we're fucked. Life is not black and white (I'm right all of the time, and, consequently, you're wrong all of the time). The world is far more complex than that, and if we can't wake up to that fact, we're going nowhere fast.

It saddens me to see us in this state of affairs, and it's only getting worse.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

When the tide comes in the fish eat the ants
When the tide goes out the ants eat the fish

Ancient Vietnamese proverb.

And it has always been thus. It is precisely the friction as well as the comity that forges and swages us. We can't have one without the other; thus demanding it is naive, Polly Annish or disingenuous...Sadly, the feigned appearance of collegiality and the lament of its absence is also an omnipresent conditon for the ages.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sadly, the feigned appearance of collegiality and the lament of its absence is also an omnipresent conditon for the ages. </div></div>

There is certainly a "good old days" with every generation, and, you're right in those "good old days" generally being a fallacy of their own imagination (I.e., those days never existed in the way people think they did).

But that doesn't extinguish the idea that we have become a nation of "there are only 2 sides to every issue, mine and the wrong one". The media tells me that everyday. Pundits tell me that everyday. Other citizens tell me that everyday.

People get confused when one can say that they think marijuana should be legalized, legal abortion is the only civilized option, then completes the thought with 'WTF is up with all of these BS "social programs" taxes?' It's as if one <span style="font-style: italic">must</span> be a liberal or a conservative.

I'm not okay with that. I'm neither and I'm both. I make decisions based on individual issues. We are taught to take a side, then agree with the party line on <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> issues. Most of us have already taken a side before we even have the capacity to understand the ramifications of believing what we believe. Imagine a republican presidential candidate who openly said that legal abortion should be protected. Or a democratic presidential candidate who thought it best to challenge Roe v Wade. You will never see one. Even if every other ideal they hold were along the strict party line, they wouldn't have a chance of being elected because they would be interpreted by both the media and the public as either being too liberal or too conservative respectively.

That is not okay. Life is far more complex than that.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

Check out the big brain on the cannibal!!!

Well put QQ. If only I had known I would need all those brain cells when I was younger......
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My children are smarter than eye. I argue and fight for sport. They seem to know about shovels, and holes, and silence.</div></div>

Google has failed me. My shame is complete, my world view undone.
 
Re: Liberalism, atheism, and IQ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chuff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think you guys are reading anything but the heading. You should really read through it and see how they defined "liberalism". Their definition appears to not be political at all.</div></div>

Love the Sig line.