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Rifle Scopes list of ffp mil/mil scopes

#3
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Mind if we add side parallax adjustment to the list of requirements? I'm doing some "homework" trying to find a variable magnification scope with FFP, mil/mil, side parallax adjustment, and no more than 10x magnification. Illumination would be nice, but not required. Does such a thing exist at around $1500?

I'll keep looking and post up anything I can find. That new IOR 2.5-10 is about spot on for the magnification range I'm looking for, but it's not parallax adjustable.
frown.gif


EDIT: Specified things a little more and added price range. I'm doing my own looking around, but thought I'd post here anyway to add it to the list for others to see. So far, Leupold is close, but they use MOA turrets.
frown.gif
I'll post any results I can find later.
 
#4
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

ya im in the same boat as you are but i think my budgets a little lower. i was hooked on the SS 3-9 but its made in japan. id much rather spend more money on american made products but idk if my wallet will allow that...
 
#5
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

If US Made only then.
US Optics
Premier Reticles
Nightforce F1
Possibly Horus Vision

Generally around +/- $2K mark for what you want. As a note all Nightforce are assembled and QA'd in Idaho, due to a certain % of parts being made in Japan their other scopes have to be labeled made in Japan. The F1 is an exception to this and is Made in the USA and labelled likewise.
 
#6
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Current FFP MIL/MIL scopes that I know of:

S&B All PM II's
3-12x50mm
4-12x42mm
4-12x50mm
5-25x50mm

Premier
3-15x50mm
5-25x56mm

Hensoldt
3-12x56mm
4-16x56mm
6-24x56mm
6-24x72mm

USO
ALL USO Variables ?

Nightforce
3.5-15x50mm F1
5.5-22x50mm F1 in the pipeline?

Vortex
5-20x50mm Razor
Has some new FFP Mil/MIL Viper's in the pipeline

IOR
2.5x10x42mm (only one model)
3-18x42mm (only one model)
3-18x50mm ?new?(sighting in NZ)

Horus Vision
5-20x50mm
4-16x50mm
3-12x50mm
1-4x24mm

Leupold
can't figure out what in the hell they are offering

Super Sniper
3-9x42mm

Falcon
4-14x44mm
5-25x50mm
5-25x56mm

If there are any I left out, please feel free to add.....


 
#8
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Basher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mind if we add side parallax adjustment to the list of requirements? I'm doing some "homework" trying to find a variable magnification scope with FFP, mil/mil, side parallax adjustment, and no more than 10x magnification. Illumination would be nice, but not required. Does such a thing exist at around $1500?
</div></div>

The SS 10HD has parallax adjustment. Or a USO. In general parallax isn't as much of an issue at lower magnifications and most folks using 10x and below aren't shooting for group size anyway so it is not a common feature.
 
#12
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

I love my USO tpal 1.8x10. It's a little out of your pricerane but it's ffp, mil/mil, side parallex adjustment, illuminated green reticle and just down right cool. I got mine new for only a little more than your quoted budget ...... But I got a smoking deal!
 
#13
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Basher,

The IOR 3-18x42mm Snipers Hide Edition is in your price range; FFP Mil/Mil and side focus. Negatory on Illumination with the FFP MIL/MIL version.
 
#16
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Basher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mind if we add side parallax adjustment to the list of requirements? I'm doing some "homework" trying to find a variable magnification scope with FFP, mil/mil, side parallax adjustment, and no more than 10x magnification. Illumination would be nice, but not required. Does such a thing exist at around $1500?
</div></div>

The SS 10HD has parallax adjustment. Or a USO. In general parallax isn't as much of an issue at lower magnifications and most folks using 10x and below aren't shooting for group size anyway so it is not a common feature.
</div></div>

If Leupold would get on the freakin' boat with Mil/Mil adjustments, then the 3.5-10x40 LR/T would be perfect for my needs. Oh well.

Bob, you have a PM.
laugh.gif
 
#17
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Basher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Basher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mind if we add side parallax adjustment to the list of requirements? I'm doing some "homework" trying to find a variable magnification scope with FFP, mil/mil, side parallax adjustment, and no more than 10x magnification. Illumination would be nice, but not required. Does such a thing exist at around $1500?
</div></div>

The SS 10HD has parallax adjustment. Or a USO. In general parallax isn't as much of an issue at lower magnifications and most folks using 10x and below aren't shooting for group size anyway so it is not a common feature.
</div></div>

If Leupold would get on the freakin' boat with Mil/Mil adjustments, then the 3.5-10x40 LR/T would be perfect for my needs. Oh well.

Bob, you have a PM.
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Then buy the IOR 2.5x10. Phenomenal scope.
 
#18
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Basher,

The IOR 3-18x42mm Snipers Hide Edition is in your price range; FFP Mil/Mil and side focus. Negatory on Illumination with the FFP MIL/MIL version. </div></div>

is that this?
http://www.valdada.com/product/2db3f757-a005-4e3d-a442-ea0370a2a1a8.aspx
 
#19
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Yes, but cheaper at LibertyOptics, according to my search. There's one for sale in the Optics section of the classifieds, but I don't have the scratch right now to pick it up. I'm saving best as I can already, though!
laugh.gif
 
#20
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Leupold doesn't offer a FFP Mil/Mil, but they do offer their European version. It comes in 3-9x, and 4-12x, 30mm tubes, and Mil/Mil.

If you are willing to bend on the FFP deal, a Leupold Euro-30 scope is fairly well priced. New, they are 370-470used I've seen them as go as low as 175-225. Still fully coated MC4 lenses. Not a bad deal for the money. I'd venture to say that they are one of Leupolds that aren't over priced.
 
#21
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

brand,

Just so nobody is misled, the Leupold Euro-30's do not have a Mildot reticle so they are not quite MIL/MIL, but Mil/Duplex something or other: I'm not sure you can even add a MILDOT reticle to one if you wanted it. Also you cannot add M1 turrets to them, so having MIL adjustments are near useless from a dialing perspective, as Leupold does not currently even make a 0.1 MIL per click M1 dial/cams.

Again Leupold's "good ideas" are ruined by poor implementation, insipid management, and a marketing philosophy geared more towards Joe Sixpack the Deerbasher, than Joe Sixpack the Tactical Shooter.

It's sad really....
 
#22
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Bob,

Thanks for mentioning that. I completely forgot to add that.

BTW, couldn't agree more with this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again Leupold's "good ideas" are ruined by poor implementation, insipid management, and a marketing philosophy geared more towards Joe Sixpack the Deerbasher, than Joe Sixpack the Tactical Shooter. </div></div>
 
#23
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Actually Leupold appears to have a FFP/MILMIL coming out. I saw an article in the newest guns and weapons for law enforcement or maybe it was special weapons for military and police ( I get them confused) they had an article on the new remington MSR rifle and on top was a Leupold 6.5x20x(50?) with 34mm tube. It was mentioned in the article as new, not yet on the market. It clearly said FFP/Mil/Mil. I would expect you will probably see them at shotshow 2010. Still, I will buy a V.Razor.
 
#25
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scarlett_Red</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually Leupold appears to have a FFP/MILMIL coming out. I saw an article in the newest guns and weapons for law enforcement or maybe it was special weapons for military and police ( I get them confused) they had an article on the new remington MSR rifle and on top was a Leupold 6.5x20x(50?) with 34mm tube. It was mentioned in the article as new, not yet on the market. It clearly said FFP/Mil/Mil. I would expect you will probably see them at shotshow 2010. Still, I will buy a V.Razor. </div></div>

The largest scope maker in the US, if not the world, has finally got one coming out in 2010.

Glad to see they are hustling to keeping up with the competition. Let's see, Leupold's competitors launched their first FFP MIL/MIL scopes:

S&B 1997
USO 1999
IOR 2006
Horus Vision 2004
Premier Heritage 2008
Nightforce F1 2008
Falcon Menace 2008
Vortex Razor 2009
Super Sniper 2009

I can understand Leupold being behind S&B and USO. But 4 full years behind an Optics Company operating on a shoe string out of Romania??? I guess Leupold just waited to see if the concept would work out....







 
#26
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

What's sad is the fact that Leupold and Premier Reticles parted ways back in, what was it, 2005? Those Gen2 FFP MilDot reticles we great, and I still beat myself up for not sending my scope in for one.

As it is, though, 6.5-20x is far more than I really need (I may never us the 18x on the IOR if I go that route, LOL), and I'm curious to see if it'll be priced appropriately and competitively. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
#27
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Horus Vision 2007</div></div>

Just to be a finikin for a moment, HorusVision had an FFP mil/mil scope with a Horus reticle available well before 2004 when I bought one. It was a crappy scope I quicky returned, but lots of people used them and still are.

But, yeah, Leupold's been behind the curve for long time. Of course, they may have been depending on Premier Reticles to convert their scopes to FFP for them without having to do any research or engineering...
laugh.gif
 
#28
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Lindy,

Thanks for the Horus info. I was not sure about them and I could not find any sold net info, so I took a swag from memory. My Bad... But whether it was 2004 or 2007, what I was trying to illustrate was how far Leupold is behind the curve in regards to the competition.

And even if Tactical scopes are a small part of Leupold's total market, how can a any Scope maker, and especially a large one like Leupold get so far behind?

They were selling Tactical scopes some years before anybody else with their Ultra Line. Then they stopped any real new development around 1989-90?

Obviously somebody in Leupold's management thinks that now is the time to produce a FFP MIL/MIL scope, so also obviously they are concerned, and are expending energy and funds towards re-capturing part of that market. But it does make you wonder what they were thinking/doing for the last 20 years?

Rip van Winkle comes to mind.....Also one would think when the USMC went with S&B rather than continuing with a 20 year + relationship with Leupold, a light might have gone on in Beaverton. Or perhaps not.....

It will be interesting to see the price points Leupold choses for there new wonder scopes. But I'm thinking somewhere around the $2k mark, based on their current offerings. If its any higher than that they will be squarely in NF F1, USO, Premier and S&B territory. If so they better be damn good, or a colossal failure will be in the making.

Bob
 
#29
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It will be interesting to see the price points Leupold choses for there new wonder scopes. But I'm thinking somewhere around the $2k mark, based on their current offerings. If its any higher than that they will be squarely in NF F1, USO, Premier and S&B territory. If so they better be damn good, or a colossal failure will be in the making.</div></div>

Yep. I agree.

Gotta love the market. Competition brings us better things.
 
#30
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Huh. Bummer. There's a thread here in which a new "M5" turret is mentioned, which is a .1mil/click turret. I'm still waiting for more details/hard facts/actual photos. I'd be interested in Leupy again if it's true, depending on the conversion costs.
 
#31
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

update for list:

-vortex viper pst series
-i think leupold er/t's with m5 knobs are mil/mil. found one website that said they were 1/10 mrad, another said something about moa so idk for sure

ive heard leupolds are frowned upon on here. why is that? are you paying more for the name than actual quality in the scope? isn't their customer service pretty kick ass too?
 
#33
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bushnell has at least one. 6-24x50 ffp mil/mil. </div></div>

and a 3-12 mil/mil FFP as well
 
#34
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Current FFP MIL/MIL scopes that I know of:

Hensoldt
3-12x56mm
4-16x56mm
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">6-24x56mm
6-24x72mm</span></span>- Just a note that neither 6-24 is an FFP scope, it is mil/mil though. THe only high mag range scope that is FFP is the 6-24x72 SAM

</div></div>
 
#35
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

Yes the Vortex scopes are that good. I have their binos and I'm the proud owner of a Razor 5x20. For the money they are one of the best optics available. Not to mention their outstanding customer service and attention to producing a quality product for the tactical shooter.
 
#37
Re: list of ffp mil/mil scopes

i heard from a guy that had one of the pst 4-16x50 ffp mil/mil's when they first came out. he said they left a lot to be desired. told me he had a lot of reticle jump, the glass was not all that good and at high power it was flat out bad. he said it had a kind of cheap feeling to it. he sold it and went with IOR 2.5-10x42 ffp mil/mil. he said he has never looked back.

makes sense when you think about it. they produce a tactical scope with all the bells and whistles you want but like half the price of competitors models. they have to cut corners some place to still make a profit.

i have not looked through one or even seen one in person, so this is totally by word of mouth. i have read similar reports from other people though.
 
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