Suppressors Listing Suppressor On Trust?

[Edgewater]

I will be going in to see my FFL in the next week to fill out paperwork for two suppressors. I will be using a trust to accompany my paperwork. My question is, do you list the suppressors and their serial numbers in your trust or do you wait until the form 4 is approved? I have read that you do not list the suppressors since you do not own them yet but a friend of mine submitted his trust with the suppressor and serial no. that he was buying when he submitted his form 4 paperwork and it was approved. I just want to make sure I am doing everything right so I do not have to suffer any delays. Thanks for the help.

 

[KYS]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

You always add in the maker of the can, serial number, and caliber in your "exhibit A" which is a typed document that states what the trust owns. Do NOT leave that out! They will send the paperwork back to your dealer.

 

[bm11]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I sent mine in without the serials on the trust and it was approved. I was told to list it after the approval.

 

[Outsydlooknin75]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

Your turst MUST own something on the exhibit A ... what that something is can be a number of things .... Ive seen toilets be listed, Ive seen hats listed, paintings, whatever. When I submitted for my first can I used my Henry 22 lever action. Once cans are approved I have added them to the exhibit A but not until after they have been approved.

 

[cardboardkiller]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I'm 6 transfers in on my trust. My schedule A only lists the $10 the trust was started with.

From Bob J. Howell, otherwise known as "The Man" when it comes to nfa trusts, on socnet.com:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob J. Howell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">You do not have to add your nfa items to your schedule "A" of you trust. The schedule "A" is generally to acknowledge receipt of something (usually $10 or some other nominal amount) in order to fund the trust, which is the final step in establishing it as a valid legal entity. If you wish to add them you certainly can, but there is no need. You certainly do not add an NFA item to the schedule "A" prior to getting back the approved transfer paperwork (Form 4) as until that comes back you cant have it yet, so how can your trust list it as an asset if you don't yet have permission.</span></div></div>

Bob is semi-local to me and set my trust up.

 

[KYS]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I've always listed them as I sent them out with a "pending" stamp around the newest ones. Never had an issue

 

[JerkeeJoe]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I've done two without listing the item and they both went through.

 

[Edgewater]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

Seems that most do not list their suppressors until after their form 4's are approved. It seems the key is that something must be listed in the schedule A section of the trust to make it legit. Any others wanting to chime in? Thanks

 

[BookHound]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edgewater</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems that most do not list their suppressors until after their form 4's are approved. It seems the key is that something must be listed in the schedule A section of the trust to make it legit. Any others wanting to chime in? Thanks </div></div>


This is correct. As stated above how can you add an item you don't yet own/possess into the Trust? Answer is you cannot.

ATF might approve a Form 4 with the item already listed if the Trust owns other property. But I've also seen them reject the transfer and ask for an amended Schedule without the pending item listed.

It is best to have SOMETHING in the Schedule but NOT the pending item.

YMMV. If you feel differently, knock yourself out. I'm just another errornet user.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

Generally your trust is invalid until you fund it. Then it's your trust which should purchase the cans. per your question...no they should not be listed until approved. Once approved they can be placed into the trust.

 

[locked&loaded]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I set my trust up with one of my rifles listed on the schedule A. That was the only thing listed when I submitted a copy to the ATF with my form.
Once it was approved, I added the suppressor info to the schedule A.

 

[fastford]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

i have put the items i was waiting on to be approved in my schedule A 15 times and it has worked ever time! Got 2 pending now!

 

[KYS]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BookHound</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edgewater</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems that most do not list their suppressors until after their form 4's are approved. It seems the key is that something must be listed in the schedule A section of the trust to make it legit. Any others wanting to chime in? Thanks </div></div>


This is correct. As stated above how can you add an item you don't yet own/possess into the Trust? Answer is you cannot.

ATF might approve a Form 4 with the item already listed if the Trust owns other property. But I've also seen them reject the transfer and ask for an amended Schedule without the pending item listed.

It is best to have SOMETHING in the Schedule but NOT the pending item.

YMMV. If you feel differently, knock yourself out. I'm just another errornet user.

</div></div>

I will disagree with that. I have been doing transfers pretty steadily for 4 years now. I was told by an ATF examiner that I needed to list all owned and potential items into my exhibit A so they could see what the trust owned and that I was updating it regularly. I have always listed manufacturer, caliber, model, and serial number in a itemized list. He told me that when I sign or fill out the form 1 and 4's I know all of the items information because it's right in front of me and they need to know I am upholding my trust the proper way. Now again, you can call the ATF/NFA 5 times in one day and get 6 different answers as I always say.... call in and ask to speak to a specialist on the matter. Dont use internet forums to guide you in a legal debate. We are not lawyers and not from your state. Each states laws on RLT's is different.

The moral to my story was I have always listed my items then sent in the paperwork, I was told to do so and in 4 years I have never had an issue with it. I also have had 5 different examiners in that time frame. Sarah Jones being the latest and best to work with. I got my trust info from Rob Howard. He manages all of the examiners.

Not saying you are wrong Bookhound but this is just my account for dealing with them.

 

[Geno C.]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I also have listed my to-be approved items in my schedule A. I have Rob Howard on my list of contacts in my phone, I have had more than a couple questions in the past that I guess no one felt comfortable answering, and he told me that the way that I was doing it was fine.

I would imagine there is more than one way to skin a cat but I guess this is one of the points that they really aren't too picky about.

 

[BookHound]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BookHound</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edgewater</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems that most do not list their suppressors until after their form 4's are approved. It seems the key is that something must be listed in the schedule A section of the trust to make it legit. Any others wanting to chime in? Thanks </div></div>


This is correct. As stated above how can you add an item you don't yet own/possess into the Trust? Answer is you cannot.

ATF might approve a Form 4 with the item already listed if the Trust owns other property. But I've also seen them reject the transfer and ask for an amended Schedule without the pending item listed.

It is best to have SOMETHING in the Schedule but NOT the pending item.

YMMV. If you feel differently, knock yourself out. I'm just another errornet user.

</div></div>

I will disagree with that. I have been doing transfers pretty steadily for 4 years now. I was told by an ATF examiner that I needed to list all owned and potential items into my exhibit A so they could see what the trust owned and that I was updating it regularly. I have always listed manufacturer, caliber, model, and serial number in a itemized list. He told me that when I sign or fill out the form 1 and 4's I know all of the items information because it's right in front of me and they need to know I am upholding my trust the proper way. Now again, you can call the ATF/NFA 5 times in one day and get 6 different answers as I always say.... call in and ask to speak to a specialist on the matter. Dont use internet forums to guide you in a legal debate. We are not lawyers and not from your state. Each states laws on RLT's is different.

The moral to my story was I have always listed my items then sent in the paperwork, I was told to do so and in 4 years I have never had an issue with it. I also have had 5 different examiners in that time frame. Sarah Jones being the latest and best to work with. I got my trust info from Rob Howard. He manages all of the examiners.

Not saying you are wrong Bookhound but this is just my account for dealing with them. </div></div>

I understand your point about them changing their minds & opinions frequently.

I've been a C3 dealer for several years and have submitted literally hundreds of Form 4s going to Trusts. Our examiner would not approve a Trust transfer if the Schedule A (or other appropriate Schedule) failed to list other NFA items transferred to that entity. If we sent in a Trust transfer with only the pending item listed it got rejected.

They used to approve Trust transfers with only a Certification of Trust. The main reason they want to see all other Trust owned NFA items on the Schedule is to fix their screwed up registry. If you argue with them that the Certification is all they need and that you want to protect the privacy of the Trust (which is the main reason for a Certification) they will allow you to redact anything listed on the Trust EXCEPT other NFA items.

I don't fault the individual examiners for the periodically changing opinions. That is what happens when things are open to interpretation.

 

[mjb2]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I belive the trust to be a legal document that creates a legal entity. The trust is a living document and must be maintained and kept current with the items "owned" by the trust. When I created mine I bought and placed a LW threaded barrel for a Glock 17 as the initial item in Schedlue A of the trust. This was enough for ATF to approve the transfer of suppressors into the trust. Schedule A was subsequently updated by myself to account for the ownership of those items by the trust. In OK, no one other than th trustee needs to see the trust so I can add or remove items from Schedule A as needed.

 

[shibby575]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

Schedule A:

Any and All NFA Items.

Done

 

[M21tactical]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

Hi Sean,

In my situation the NFA items (all suppressors in my case) were put on the Attachment A when the Form 4 was submitted. In three separate cases they were approved with no problems. My thoughts on this right or wrong, was I paid for the suppressors in stock up front prior to sending in the ATF paper work and I had a receipt for them. Thus, I felt like I owned them, but I could not use them and they resided in the dealers safe. So when the tax stamp came back, that fully consummated the transaction and I could bust it out of the dealers safe and take it home. This all said, is why I thought it was ok to put the information on the Attachment A.

Good luck. What are you getting?

Brad

 

[chainring]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

So can I just type the new items onto the existing Sched A as I aquire them?

And what about a new Assignment of Property? The old one just has the one item used to create the trust? Get a new form or just manipulate the old one to create room and add items?

 

[dogman]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

The only thing I have on my sched A is $10...never been rejected.

Bob Howell did my initial trust and I asked him about adding items after I started buying more stuff. He said it was not necessary.

 

[TXCOWDOC]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I add those approved items after they are in my possession for subsequent applications on my trust. That's how my class 3 guy told me to do it and I've never had a problem with 5 different stamps. To each their own-

 

[woodspider]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've always listed them as I sent them out with a "pending" stamp around the newest ones. Never had an issue </div></div>
THIS

 

[jcfd2201]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

Okay this post has answered a couple of questions and created a couple too. I have 3 NFA items currently and am planning on the purchase of the fourth. The first two I bought and did the paperwork as an individual. The last one I did on a trust.

My understanding from my research is that I am the legal and authorized possessor of the first two items and that anyone listed in the trust may possess the third item. Correct?

To achieve the same status for the first two items can I simply list them on my trust or do I need to do paperwork and pay the $200 again?

The last purchase was my first purchase using the trust and I only had to send in the Certification of Trust and one other thing I think but it was not the Schedule A as I didn't feel they needed to know what was on there and it was none of their business. I had no problems with that purchase. Now it seems that you have to send them the Schedule A and depending on your examiner it makes a difference whether or not presently owned and the current item a re listed on the Schedule A.

Thoughts and suggestion?

 

[BookHound]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcfd2201</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To achieve the same status for the first two items can I simply list them on my trust or do I need to do paperwork and pay the $200 again?

</div></div>

YOU are the current owner of your first tow suppressors. If you want your Trust to be the new owner it will require another transfer for each item. So, it is a Form 4 from you to your Trust.

 

[jcfd2201]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I know I am the owner of the first two and that is exactly how I understood it was the Form 4 and fees.

Thanks!

 

[Desert-Rat]

Re: Listing Suppressor On Trust?

I've had several stamps added to my trust and like the others, added the newest stamp application to the schedule a and built a single assignment of property to the trust.

Good luck, sounds like you're on the path!