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little help here?

LH_Gina

LH_Gina

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 5, 2009
375
312
Goodyear, AZ
So I was inspired by 175G's example (and guts) and decided maybe I should post video for critique as well. Feel free to tell me what you think. I've got pretty thick skin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KasP-hEaBQ


I have my targets and will gladly post pics of those as well... even knowing I had a flier on two of them. I'm still learning and can use all the help I can get. Especially since my husband quit helping me as much after I beat him at a couple of local matches.
 
Re: little help here?

Videos look good Gina. FWIW, I'd like to orient my thumb along the long axis of the stock, as opposed to crossing over. (Disclaimer: Not claim to be an expert at anything, just how I was told...)
 
Re: little help here?

here are the pics of the targets... I had to rezero my scope so the first pic is before I made any adjustments.

005.jpg


And after:

004.jpg


003.jpg
 
Re: little help here?

Gina Those targets look fine to me. I take them any day. Shouldn't have any problem ringing the skinny sammy with that accuracy.
 
Re: little help here?

Better to show the video from the side - but good job on follow-through at least. A little much bipod hop early on - but I think that's an equipment issue. What type of bipod are you using? Is it locked?
 
Re: little help here?

Gina nice shooting. I like to use a scrunchie to keep my hair out of my eyes, but then again you've beat me in every match so far. Can I borrow one of your hair ties?
 
Re: little help here?

there are more videos on youtube (i must be a glutton for punishment).

it's a Harris swivel bipod with pod lock and it was locked.

thank you guys. and yes Sofa, I always have extras. I'll loan you one next time.
grin.gif
 
Re: little help here?

Only thing I have to offer is you might consider switching to plug style hearing protection, Surefire ear plugs or foam disposables. Only reason I suggest it is that I've had issues with ear muffs affecting cheek weld, sometimes recoil, sweat etc. will make them shift on your head and instead of fixing them, you may find yourself moving your head to get the next shot off and thus affecting your sight picture.

FWIW, women typically are better shooters then most average men. Not being born with the Rambo gene, they take instruction better and don't have any preconceived notions or innate bad habits.
 
Re: little help here?

Wow, your shooting looks really good, good trigger control/ follow thru, and your head doesn't come up off the stock at all.

Your flyers are probably the result of 1 or 2 things, try this the next time you go out.

1. You will need to load the bipod consistently every time, it is a key thing and will result in flyers, esp when trying to conduct a drill like you did in the video. Try doing the same drill from a bag or rest, if you get great results then you know that you are not loading the bipod consistently.

If you still get some flyers, then try this:

Your fliers are probably the result of gripping with your trigger hand as you are pressing the trigger, your right hand (under the stock) should be controlling the rifle by gripping the stock. The left hand you must be able to consistently grip the stock (barely, light, or hard) and isolate the trigger finger and press straight to the rear without moving the rifle.

Try gripping the stock with different pressures with your left hand (trigger hand) and see which one works best for you in isolating your trigger finger.

Hope this helps
 
Re: little help here?

You know, loading the bipod was something I wasn't even thinking about. I'll pay more attention to that next time in case that's the issue. Thank you.
 
Re: little help here?

Would you people quit helping, she's been running nenck and neck with me for the past year and I don't need a woman bruising my fragile psyche continually..........that's what I go shoot to get away from!


All BS aside, good job-you go girl. Throw a video on most of the guys on the line and you'll see many up off the stock like thay can see their hits better with their eyes than through their scopes.

I think Hogstooth's on track with the bipod loading, and maybe the hand pressure-but then again you see the patterns I shoot (I've quit calling them groups).
 
Re: little help here?

Good going Gina!!
I dont have much to add since it looks like you have the basics down pat, though it looks like mechanics aside you have reached a point where repetition and goal setting prior to practice/match can really help. I like to call it mental conditioning.
Since I dont know what type of competition your doing or what the course of fire is I cant suggest a training example, but I will suggest you dissect it and your performance thru-out the course of the day/match and try to identify what all happens and where the trouble starts i.e later in day wind picks up,fatigue,wider groups etc and write it down!
I find that to be one most important tools in helping relatively experienced athletes.Write it down and read it! read it often and look to work on those components during practice.
cheers!
 
Re: little help here?

I've been shooting tactical precision rifle matches for almost a year... I shoot with the Phoenix guys once or twice a month and they are kind enough to share their knowledge with me... ok, they were kind until I started doing better because I actually paid attention to what they were telling me. LOL. So far, my shooting is a total reflection of how many times they've had to remind me to do something or how bad they mess with my head before a match.
 
Re: little help here?

Wow, if you're who I think you are, that is very, very impressive if you've only been shooting matches for less than a year! Keep up the awesome work...
 
Re: little help here?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LH Gina</div><div class="ubbcode-body">........or how bad they mess with my head before a match. </div></div>

I'm thinking a pound of bacon on an electric griddle upwind of the line might do it next month.........
 
Re: little help here?

does that mean you'll be fixin' up some chow for everyone at the next match then? i love me some bacon, but I'm not sure it'll be distracting enough. put one of you guys in an apron and I might be laughing hard enough to miss a few more times than I hit though.
 
Re: little help here?

Any issues others saw have already been addressed. I love to see women shooting especially a fellow lefty! Keep up the good work!
 
Re: little help here?

Hogstooth is spot on with the grip issue. It is best demonstrated if you take the first two fingers of your right hand, and squeeze them in your left hand as if you are gripping your weapon. Keep your trigger finger extended while you grip the two fingers of your right hand.

As you simulate pulling a trigger with your left trigger finger, people usually can feel the tendons in their gripping hand tighten a bit. It is natural because the human hand is designed with the opposable thumb so that all fingers grip at the same time. Learning to move the trigger finger without tightening the other finger tendons in the trigger hand takes lots, and lots of practice. That is one reason why some bench rest shooters use the pinch method to pull the trigger.

Obviously, the pinch method of pulling the trigger is impractical for field shooting. But you can dramatically improve your ability to not squeeze the other fingers in your trigger hand by being aware of the issue, and practicing trigger pull. You don't need a firearm to practice isolating the trigger finger muscles though.

The only other thing I can suggest is to watch and see if there is a pattern to the shot that goes low and right. Is it the first, second, or last shot? If you see a pattern for it, then you can begin to look for the cause and a cure.

If the low and right shot is the first shot, you might try the technique of perfecting your hold, trigger pull, sight picture etc for just a micro second before you pull the trigger. When you think you are ready to shoot, think "not yet....pause,,,,and now" . In your mind it seems like it takes forever to do this, but it is really only about two heart beats.

Sort of like if the band starts playing on the count of 4,...when 4 comes around, you don't start, you wait one more beat, then start. Give yourself one more beat before you pull the trigger if you find out that there is a pattern to the low right shot. Then it may resolve.

By the way, I was really impressed at how nicely you kept your cheek on the rifle while working the bolt. The vast majority of people raise up their head and have to reset their spot weld every time. You are doing it the right way. Nice work.
 
Re: little help here?

Thank you! I'll practice that to see if it helps with my grip.

The shot that goes low and right is usually my last one. I've heard it might be a "hurry up and finish" thing and that I'm probably jerking the shot, so I'm working on slowing down and taking my time in practice so I'll be better in competitions.

I appreciate the input. Personally, I don't know how anyone can tell where they're hitting if they come off the gun quickly to cycle the bolt.
 
Re: little help here?

Now that you mention that "last shot", and trying to rapidly engage or rapidly rack the bolt. In reality speeding up will result in errant rounds but follow thru is really important for each and every shot. When you shoot each round, there should be a slight momentary pause where you get the next sight picture before you rack the bolt for the next shot.

The pause in which I am talking about is even when you press the trigger smoothly, you need to hold your trigger finger to the rear during recoil for propper follow thru. It is only 10ths of a second for the recoil to subside but you should see a 2nd sight picture for each shot, your reticle may not even still be right in the middle of the target but you will have some sort of sight picture.

The last shot you should really be looking for that last sight picture and your trigger finger should still be held to the rear for really good follow thru. Also evaluating your target and wether you need to re-engage or be prepared to re-engage, is all part of following thru completely.

Do you shoot with both eyes open? Just curious?
 
Re: little help here?

I watched the videos again and on your last shot you do not come off the gun so I would say it is either not maintaining your grip during recoil or not following thru with your trigger finger holding it to the rear during recoil. Can't really see in the video since it is from your strong side, trigger control and follow thru are the 2 keys to being consistent and accurate. Everything else just helps you be faster!!
 
Re: little help here?

I usually shoot with one eye open... I'm working on keeping them both open though. I went back out to the range and tried to apply the advice I've received on here. I had much better groups, so I think I was just rushing my last shots instead of taking the extra 3 seconds to get a good hit. I didn't realize how much of a difference that whole 90 degree finger thing was until I tested it out. Also I adjusted my grip so I'm not reaching so far for the trigger.
 
Re: little help here?

Sorry about that. Here ya go:

5 shot group
5shotgroup.jpg


6 shot group
6shotgroup.jpg


Still working on my breathing, but the 90 degree trigger finger and adjusting my grip is helping tremendously. Did a lot better at the last match I shot because of that too.
 
Re: little help here?

I have tried to take into consideration everyone's advice but the things that made the biggest difference in getting better groups and also since I sorta switched to dot drills a lot since it also keeps my interest better and is easier for me to see progress, is the consistent trigger control and breathing. I actually at work and home took to taping my finger (even though people are always asking if I cut myself) and practicing the motion of pressing the trigger back with finger at 90* throughout a few thousand times a day when I’m on the phone or anything like that so I could learn to isolate that finger from the rest of my fingers (because naturally the rest of the fingers would contract a little also) until it is becoming habitual. Not saying it is recommended but it certainly helped me. I have never been able to shoot with one eye covered or closed I have tried it a bit but it is very frustrating for me, perhaps I will try to practice that some and see it if helps.
 
Re: little help here?

Lot's of conflicting, and vague things in regards to trigger control, it's easy to get a bit confused with the different school's of thought on the subject.

However, I do believe building the position from the trigger back and not the stock forward along with 90 degree finger is a simple and easy way to see positive results. You're mileage may vary and you can do what comes natural, but we see lots of positive results when combined with a consistent and smooth press to the rear.

If you analyze the groups above posted by Gina, you will see very little horizontal dispersion which is tells us she has a very good trigger control. especially when compared to the previous groups posted.
 
Re: little help here?

Whatever changes you made in transition from the first set of targets to the second set of targets paid off. Keep up the good work!

Kelly
 
Re: little help here?

You seem to be "hunting" the bolt slightly when you cycle it. I would try to stick out your trigger finger to the bottom of the bolt handle before you cycle it. That will give you a tactile verification before cycling instead of grabbing at it. Definitely solid technique overall!
 
Re: little help here?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Gent</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You seem to be "hunting" the bolt slightly when you cycle it. I would try to stick out your trigger finger to the bottom of the bolt handle before you cycle it. That will give you a tactile verification before cycling instead of grabbing at it. Definitely solid technique overall! </div></div>

I tried that yesterday... Seemed to work pretty well. Thank you!
 
Re: little help here?

It looks as if the stock is coming off your shoulder when you run the bolt. Maybe try moving the bottom of your shooting hand a bit more away from the pistol grip, sufficient to apply light rearward pressure through the grip at the first joints of the second and third fingers of your shooting hand: see if light, consistent pressure into your shoulder at ninety-degrees to the bore will tighten things up a bit and allow you to stay 'on the gun'. Looks good, though!
 
Re: little help here?

from the amateurs perspective one thing i didnt notice mentioned is that your directly behind the rifle as apposed to at an angle. maybe angling yourself to the rifle is an obsolete practice but its what i was taught. also i cant see your legs but make sure your legs are comfortably spread out and that your toes are pointing outwards. when you rest on your toes that moevment transfers down to the gun.

when you are at an angle the buttstock sits in the pocket of your shoulder more securely and also gives you more of a cheek weld and less of a jaw bone weld.

a right handed shooter would angl to the left and a left handed shooter would angle to the right.

kenny
 
Re: little help here?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from the amateurs perspective one thing i didnt notice mentioned is that your directly behind the rifle as apposed to at an angle. maybe angling yourself to the rifle is an obsolete practice but its what i was taught. also i cant see your legs but make sure your legs are comfortably spread out and that your toes are pointing outwards. when you rest on your toes that moevment transfers down to the gun.

when you are at an angle the buttstock sits in the pocket of your shoulder more securely and also gives you more of a cheek weld and less of a jaw bone weld.

a right handed shooter would angl to the left and a left handed shooter would angle to the right.

kenny </div></div>The issue of being positioned straight behind the rifle vs. being canted to the side was beaten down pretty good in the Tip of Finger vs. 2nd joint thread that went WAY off topic. IMO and many others, straight behind the rifle is the best way to go, especially with custom or adjustable LOP stocks.
 
Re: little help here?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The issue of being positioned straight behind the rifle vs. being canted to the side was beaten down pretty good in the Tip of Finger vs. 2nd joint thread that went WAY off topic. IMO and many others, straight behind the rifle is the best way to go, especially with custom or adjustable LOP stocks.</div></div>

i see well there you go i wasnt sure if it was still common practice. other then a smaller target i didnt catch why straight behind is better in that thread but i didnt read all posts.
 
Re: little help here?

Basically comes down to recoil absorption and maintaining your natural point of aim from shot to shot, but it also is better for maintaining the rifle in the pocket of the shoulder to. Read through it for the explanations.
 
Re: little help here?

You're working the bolt a bit hard.

Seems you have good target re-acquisition when you have another round loaded but I saw at least twice where you dragged the rifle back towards you after working the bolt.
 
Re: little help here?

I originally posted this back in September. I've really been working on the not being quite so clumsy while working the bolt. The 90 degree trigger finger thing has helped tremendously. Went from being in the bottom half at matches to consistently placing in the top third. Adjusting a few things on my rifle and getting out to practice a bit more have helped as well. Still working on my breathing, but I'm always working on that no matter the sport.

I truly appreciate the advice I've been given and will certainly try stuff to see if I works for me.
 
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