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load develooment with unfired brass???

djtjr

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 1, 2009
114
0
47
New York
hey guys, assuming a case does not have to be fire formed to form a new case dimension ie a 6 br to a dasher, can you reliably do load development with fully prepped but unfired brass? in other words do you do load development on the first firing of a new batch of brass or wait till it has conformed to the chamber them bump back .001-2". I would think that cases where there is a significant volume differential like my example above it would be difficult to develop a load with, though you may still shoot accurately, but what are your findings say using 6 br brass in a 6 br? do you find that everything remains the same on the second firing with the load that shot best in the first firing or does it change up the second time around?
thanks
Don
 
Re: load develooment with unfired brass???

With a very tight chamber you will have pretty close results. With a factory chamber it's a crap shoot as to what happens. You might get good comparability, you might now.

What are you planning to shoot new brass in?
 
Re: load develooment with unfired brass???

thanks bohem, i have a few guns to do load development for so its more of a general question as to should i be fire forming brass first. i have some br guns that run tighter and some that are factory. i guess it was a way to try to save shooting hundreds of rounds and wear barrel life without getting usable knowledge of what the rifle likes from it.
d
 
Re: load develooment with unfired brass???

You can use some fast pistol powder topped off with a cotton ball or cream of wheat, point it at the sky and touch it off.

No barrel wear and fireformed brass.

If you look around for "The bullseye/cream of wheat method" you'll get some interesting reading.
 
Re: load develooment with unfired brass???

I use 20 cases for load development. Load up differing powder charges to shoot through the chrony to find my usable max loads. Neck size those cases and either shoot OCW/Ladder testing to find sweet spot. Neck size again and play with OAL to find sweet spot OAL.

I then load up that load with all the remaining cases and go shoot stuff.

No problems yet with both tight and factory chambers with this method.
 
Re: load develooment with unfired brass???

In practical terms, I'd say you can; at least for the first round of ballpark/pressure testing, where we are looking for a coarse approximation before settling down to finding a more precise match to barrel harmonics. By that time, you should have enough fireformed cases to proceed to the more precision development stages.

When I do load development; I actually try to avoid highly complex, precise, and demanding handloading steps. I do this from a logical perspective. I figure that if a load requires such backflips to get it to work right, it's not the kind of robust and dependable load that I can depend on not going to go out of tune on me when small environmental condition changes occur.

When you get several decades down the handloading road, you begin to realize that you've made a bunch of ammo and it's all mostly gone the way of the dodo. Handloading can be an end in itself, or a means to an end. I prefer the latter, see the real end as the shooting, and try to keep the handloading as basic and simple as possible.

There's an accuracy sacrifice, of course there is. But what some folks tend to overlook is that said sacrifice doesn't actually need to be that much, and that the shooters who can tell the difference aren't exactly thick on the ground, either. Mother nature and human frailties will often combine to eradicate said difference more often than we like, or may be willing to anticipate.

So, in other words, I combine my fireforming with early-stage load development, and when I have the load, will incorporate new cases directly into production. You may or may not note differences at that point, but as long as you know and can recognize them, you can anticipate their effects. If fireforming production cases becomes a genuine necessity, this will become readily apparent soon enough.

Greg