Load Development for Big Bore Cartridges?

[Western Living]

Is load development for big bore cartridges a thing? I mean, take 458 Lott, 470 Nitro Express or 505 Gibbs.

Obviously, these are not bench-rest cartridges or even PRS or F-Class, and there are some load-development steps that simply aren't going to matter for the kind of precision sought from the rifles that shoot these. I don't think anyone is chasing 1/4 MOA groups with these things.

But what steps are appropriate?

Would I want to shoot a ladder and try to find a node? I'm not going to shoot even 300 yards to see a vertical spread, but I could use a chronograph.

Suppose I find an apparent node and load 5 somewhere in the middle. Then I could check group-size at 100 yards, ES and SD. ES could matter, but how much does SD matter?

Should I even look at seating depth, jump, freebore, chase the lands?

While these cartridges are typically associated with dangerous game at relatively close distances less than 100 yards, they have the velocity to shoot MPBR out to 200 or 250 yards. It seems like some kind of load development procedure would be appropriate, but which steps are actually going to contribute to making these things more accurate than just a slug gun?

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I'd just load until you have pressure signs, back off 1 grain. Then load everything as consistently as possible. The most important thing for dangerous game cartridges is that they go bang every single time you pull the trigger.

 

[Western Living]

Let me clarify that while these are considered "dangerous game" cartridges, they're not necessarily shot for that purpose. I think it's fair to say that the most important thing for cartridges used for dangerous game is dependability. I suspect that the rifles get fired for a lot of other purposes, seeing as how there are so many more of them than people going on Safaris. I suppose the purpose for a lot of them is just to make Tik-Tok videos of people getting knocked off their feet with the recoil, but couldn't they be reasonably accurate? If they can be made accurate, it's not really that much different than shooting pronghorn or white tail with a 44 Magnum, only it could be made to work at 200 yards or more. Some people talk about loading them down to 45-70 levels where we'd not question that they'd have more versatility than just Alaskan bears and African buffalo.

So what load development steps make sense for a 45-70?

 

[Maurygold]

I'd just load until you have pressure signs, back off 1 grain. Then load everything as consistently as possible. The most important thing for dangerous game cartridges is that they go bang every single time you pull the trigger.

You don’t need to be giving out reloading advice until you show us some chronos.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

You don’t need to be giving out reloading advice until you show us some chronos.

I could easily just fake chrono numbers. If I were you, I'd ask for better proof than that. If you're going to try to call someone out, at least make it hard.

Anyone paying attention enough to know who I am knows my ammo has been performing well for customers, demos, and my own performance well before you were a member here.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

You don’t need to be giving out reloading advice until you show us some chronos.

But, since you asked and you seem to like getting in over your head. Here's a few that won't waste too much of my time posting.

As I said though, this literally proves nothing. I could just be faking or cherry picking all these.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Let me clarify that while these are considered "dangerous game" cartridges, they're not necessarily shot for that purpose. I think it's fair to say that the most important thing for cartridges used for dangerous game is dependability. I suspect that the rifles get fired for a lot of other purposes, seeing as how there are so many more of them than people going on Safaris. I suppose the purpose for a lot of them is just to make Tik-Tok videos of people getting knocked off their feet with the recoil, but couldn't they be reasonably accurate? If they can be made accurate, it's not really that much different than shooting pronghorn or white tail with a 44 Magnum, only it could be made to work at 200 yards or more. Some people talk about loading them down to 45-70 levels where we'd not question that they'd have more versatility than just Alaskan bears and African buffalo.

So what load development steps make sense for a 45-70?

I can't honestly tell you how precise any of those may be loaded for. I personally pick a different tool for precision. Though I wouldn't hold it against anyone to give it a try.

I'd assume there are likely some videos out there of people who have attempted.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

You don’t need to be giving out reloading advice until you show us some chronos.

Here's a screenshot from a text from a local shop who had us make some ammo for a customer. Only 5 shots. So, fairly meaningless. But, you wanted "proof." This was a 7prc. Pic was from customer.

 

[RTH1800]

In big bore double rifles ammo is loaded to regulate point of impact and this entails trying to match as closely as possible the original loadings which can be over 100 years old and components no longer available.

Very few big bore cartridges are loaded to peak pressures or for maximum velocity. Accuracy is seldom a large concern beyond above mentioned regulation of double rifles.

Most true “dangerous” game rifles are loaded to a velocity of 2100 FPS with heavy bullets.
Large game is normally shot from 10 feet to 50 yards so accuracy is seldom a factor.

Doing ladder test etc is simply not required.

 

[RTH1800]

I have had double rifles that shot very well. One was a Holland .375 flanged which would easily shoot 2.5” at 100 yards. Two shots from each barrel.

A Rigby .470 would be under 3”. These were exceptions. Most would be lucky to double that group size.

I did not do any precision type load work up for either. Just tried to match the original bullet weight and velocity. Excessive velocity is considered a detriment by most experienced big game hunters.

Like the Texas Ranger who quit wearing boots when he stopped riding his horse to work, I no longer have need of such things. I’m down to my last .416 Rigby and it’s no longer fired.

 

[ForgeValley]

Here's a screenshot from a text from a local shop who had us make some ammo for a customer. Only 5 shots. So, fairly meaningless. But, you wanted "proof." This was a 7prc. Pic was from customer.

View attachment 8338930

Tell the customer he needs some work... With numbers like that those holes ought to be stacked like dinner plates. Unless that's 500 yards of course.

 

[Maurygold]

But, since you asked and you seem to like getting in over your head. Here's a few that won't waste too much of my time posting.

As I said though, this literally proves nothing. I could just be faking or cherry picking all these.

These are all over magnetospeed and the Garmin has been out for months. Something smells fishy here

 

[Maurygold]

But, since you asked and you seem to like getting in over your head. Here's a few that won't waste too much of my time posting.

As I said though, this literally proves nothing. I could just be faking or cherry picking all these.

How am I in over my head when I posted real groups that are better than these?? If you’re so smart how come you can’t load ammo better than me?

BACK TO THE SHED DANNY!

 

[Rocketmandb]

I could easily just fake chrono numbers. If I were you, I'd ask for better proof than that. If you're going to try to call someone out, at least make it hard.

Anyone paying attention enough to know who I am knows my ammo has been performing well for customers, demos, and my own performance well before you were a member here.

Are you ever going to be able to post again without that moron stalking you?

 

[Maurygold]

Are you ever going to be able to post again without that moron stalking you?

Do you actually want him posting more?

 

[spife7980]

Do you actually want him posting more?

Yes. And you less.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Are you ever going to be able to post again without that moron stalking you?

It's pretty entertaining. I keep him on ignore. Every couple days I'll unblock a post and reply just so he keeps banging his head against the wall.

Also entertaining when people look up the company FFL and think that's who's posting. As if the FFL holder is the only person at the company.

 

[Maurygold]

Yes. And you less.

Yet you keep following me around. The irony

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Absolutely do load development for big cartridges.

For one, not all loads need to be full power. In my .458 mag. I have a heavy solid load but also one with soft points loaded down to be “hot” .45/70.

Same with my .416 Taylor. Solid in that dropped a cape Buffalo… lighter soft nose a bison and I’ll be using the light loads on musk ox next month.

Still playing with .470 Capstick loads.

If it gets hand loaded…. It gets development. For accuracy and power. But “crazy full power” stuff is rarely useful and just causes flinch and difficulty with follow-up. So testing and practicing are both critical esp where game is involved. And double critical where dangerous game is involved. Getting stomped and gored is probably not much fun.

Plus, load development is always fun! It’s why we handload.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[spife7980]

Yet you keep following me around. The irony

I’m not following you, you’re just annoying in every thread

 

[Rocketmandb]

I’m not following you, you’re just annoying in every thread

Something tells me it's more than just in threads...

 

[FLIGHT762]

If I was loading for Dangerous Game loads that are going to be used for that purpose, I would use one of less temperature sensitive powders out there. Especially if it is being used on another Continent.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

I just finished load dev. for my 450 No2 Nitro Express 3 1/2" Not a double rifle so I don't have to worry about regulation.

480 gr CEB Brass Solids going 2148 fps with 88 gr of RL 15. Low recoil, low pressure, hits like a freight train.

Ground squirrels beware!

 

[45-90]

I have loaded for 416 Rigby, and 50BMG.
Loading manuals with available data are used...and accurate loads worked up, staying within max pressures for that cartridge...depending on the powder, and it's temperature sensitivity if hunting in Africa where it's supposedly really hot.
Simple...also shoot the solids and soft points with similar charges, to see how close they group, and if the impact is in the same place. These big bores can be surprisingly accurate, in bolt guns...double rifles are more limited with regulated barrels.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I’m not following you, you’re just annoying in every thread

He's good for a laugh.

 

[Maurygold]

He's good for a laugh.

View attachment 8340479

Hahahahhaa. You posted months old magnetospeeds.

 

[cas6969]

With the big bores you do load development just like everything else.... except you often get to "I think that's good enough" a little sooner.

 

[Hoser]

I did a little load development in with my 375 H&H, 416 Rigby and 470 Nitro.

I was looking for ammo that would hit a 2-3 inch plate at 100 yards that didnt tear up the brass or my shoulder.

For the 470, I needed to be sure the ammo was accurate and still hit where the sights were pointing. For a 75 yard and in rifle that was more important than anything.

I did not do anything to the brass like flash holes or primer pockets. I just used good dies, bullets and pretty much went with what was coming my way.