F T/R Competition Load testing for F T/R?

[BigtimeAub]

A question for you all...

I'm going to the range today to test some loads. I've got 175smk's in once fired Lapua brass (@ 2.810 COAL) with Federal 210 primers. I'm using Varget powder at 43, 43.5, 44, 44.5, and 45 grains and I've got 5 rounds loaded of each.

What method should I use for testing if I'm planning on finding a load to compete with at no less than 500, but 600 to 1000 yards will be the norm. I'm planning on fine tuning beyond this, but need to find my 1 grain node to begin with and then work within those parameters to find my optimal load, COAL at a later date. I've seen various methods of testing mentioned here on the Hide but I've also seen many variations of the testing that go so far as to using the same name for the testing but the methods within were completely different altogether. What do the F T/R guys do?

Thanks for any help. And I'm to open advice concerning anything mentioned above, and if I said something that looks incorrect, please let me know and educate me so I'll know what in the hell I'm talking about. The loads that I've listed above are just a starting point. If I don't find anything I like in that range, I can go up or down, makes no difference to me. I just want to find what my rifle likes, even if it turns out to be 37gr of beach sand and 112gr marbles. If that's what gets me to sub MOA, then that's what I'll go with.

PS: Is it possible to find the load I'm looking for in regards to my conditions noted above by testing at 100 yards? Also, if it makes any difference at all, the specs again on my rifle are REM700 .308, Kreiger 5R 30" in 1:10".

 

[GardDog]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

I'm assuming for .308 win? Have you ladder tested this load in the past or is your first step?

 

[BigtimeAub]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GardDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm assuming for .308 win? Have you ladder tested this load in the past or is your first step? </div></div>
Yes, it's a .308 win. And no, this is the very first load test I've done with this rifle. The loads that I'm testing were suggested by a friend who has a rifle very comparable to mine, just in 26". His load is at 44.5 with all else the same.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

If you are not tracking MV, ES, and SD while doing testing, F/TR or otherwise, you are wasting your time and money.

Last time I checked there are no 100 yard group size F/TR matches.

 

[XTR]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

It would be helpful to know your MV, but MV is less important that finding an accuracy node and working to be as tight as you can be at the top of it. It doesn't matter how far you itend to shoot, a load that works at 300 will work at 1000.

Go read this:

OCW load testing

I've done the OCW test for 175 SMKs twice in my rifle, once with a 24" barrel and once with a 30" barrel.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Both tests show a node at around 44 to 44.5 <span style="font-weight: bold">IN WINCHESTER BRASS</span>.</span>

Your Lapua has less capacity than W-W so the load will be somewhat different.

First I think your loads may be spaced too far apart. I use 0.3 gn spacing, and it works, the nodes tend to be about .6 gn wide so you may miss what you are looking for.

They are already posted in another thread so I'll link to them. Here are the targets from my latest workup with 185 Bergers at 200 yards. I know that the OCW process says to ignore group size and look at location, but if you look at these targets you see that not only do I have 3 groups that are w/i a bullet diameter of the same spot from the point of aim, the groups are also tight, more indication that it may actually be in a node. The wind was from my right, so if you consider that it takes very little wind to move that one shot 0.3in out of the group at 44.4.

Now ideally I should probably load at about 44.1 to be in the middle, but since I am trying to toss these pills out to 1000 yards I may see if I can get it to hold together closer to 44.4 for the extra MV.

If I were you I'd pull those down (or not and save the ones that you don't use for load tuning), but make up a series with 0.3 gr spacing. Use 3 round groups unless you get a flyer, and if you do, and you know it was on you, then shoot another and note the flyer, don't count it in your assessment.


Chrono is nice, it will tell you if your loads are consistent, but you don't need it for this part.

 

[CSiebert]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

I would test Ladder test @ 600, or group test @ 600. Pay close attention to vertical in your group. If it groups good and holds good vertical @ 600 your numbers are gonna be pretty good with the chrono. The best loads I have were worked up without the use of a Chronograph. I did check them after the fact and the numbers were very good.

100 testing does little for long range precision in my opinion I have seen numerous guns shoot little groups @ 100 but wont hold up at 600. For 600 and 1000 yard benchrest I do most of my load testing @ 400 yards in my back yard. In my experience if I can get a load to agg sub 1 inch 5 shot groups on several different days I feel pretty confident I have a good tune on the rifle. It important to me to shoot a load over several days to make sure I am getting good data. I have been fooled several times by a load that shot very good one weekend and only to turn to crap the following.

Probably not the right way to do it but it works for me.

 

[CSiebert]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be helpful to know your MV, but MV is less important that finding an accuracy node and working to be as tight as you can be at the top of it. It doesn't matter how far you itend to shoot, a load that works at 300 will work at 1000.

Go read this:

OCW load testing

I've done the OCW test for 175 SMKs twice in my rifle, once with a 24" barrel and once with a 30" barrel.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Both tests show a node at around 44 to 44.5 <span style="font-weight: bold">IN WINCHESTER BRASS</span>.</span>

Your Lapua has less capacity than W-W so the load will be somewhat different.

First I think your loads may be spaced too far apart. I use 0.3 gn spacing, and it works, the nodes tend to be about .6 gn wide so you may miss what you are looking for.

They are already posted in another thread so I'll link to them. Here are the targets from my latest workup with 185 Bergers at 200 yards. I know that the OCW process says to ignore group size and look at location, but if you look at these targets you see that not only do I have 3 groups that are w/i a bullet diameter of the same spot from the point of aim, the groups are also tight, more indication that it may actually be in a node. The wind was from my right, so if you consider that it takes very little wind to move that one shot 0.3in out of the group at 44.4.

Now ideally I should probably load at about 44.1 to be in the middle, but since I am trying to toss these pills out to 1000 yards I may see if I can get it to hold together closer to 44.4 for the extra MV.

If I were you I'd pull those down (or not and save the ones that you don't use for load tuning), but make up a series with 0.3 gr spacing. Use 3 round groups unless you get a flyer, and if you do, and you know it was on you, then shoot another and note the flyer, don't count it in your assessment.


Chrono is nice, it will tell you if your loads are consistent, but you don't need it for this part.</div></div>

+1 with XTR good advice.

 

[CSiebert]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cz550</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would test Ladder test @ 600, or group test @ 600. Pay close attention to vertical in your group. If it groups good and holds good vertical @ 600 your numbers are gonna be pretty good with the chrono. The best loads I have were worked up without the use of a Chronograph. I did check them after the fact and the numbers were very good.

100 testing does little for long range precision in my opinion I have seen numerous guns shoot little groups @ 100 but wont hold up at 600. For 600 and 1000 yard benchrest I do most of my load testing @ 400 yards in my back yard. In my experience if I can get a load to agg sub 1 inch 5 shot groups on several different days I feel pretty confident I have a good tune on the rifle. It important to me to shoot a load over several days to make sure I am getting good data. I have been fooled several times by a load that shot very good one weekend and only to turn to crap the following.

Probably not the right way to do it but it works for me.</div></div>

One other thing I forgot to mention wait for calm conditions it makes things much easier to test loads.

 

[BigtimeAub]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

Thanks guys. I appreciate all of the advice. I guess I should've mentioned that I don't have a chrono and I only have access to a 100 yard range unless I'm actually shooting in a match and/or someone invites me along ($1 to lal357) to shoot with them. I'm just a college student at Auburn, and there aren't any good ranges around here open to the public so I kind of have to make due with what's available. I wish that I had all of the opportunities and equipment that a lot of you have. I'm truly envious.

 

[Hopkins]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

Chronos are nice and I use mine religiously but they aren't a substitute for down range vertical results. You can get a lot done at 100 yds. Don't get talked out of the value shooting at that range. Find a load that will deliver .5 moa or better and then worry about backing up. Good Luck!

 

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

For 1000yds you can not discount the use of a chrono. You need to be above xxxxfps to have enough gas to not go subsonic.
I was testing Berger 185s yesterday and knew that minimum speed was 2675fps. Any good nodes below that would be fine for midrange but not for 1000yds.

 

[XTR]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

He's shooting 175s over Varget out of a 30" barrel. As long as he loads over at leastt 43.8 grains he'll be fine. Below that and it's probably slow until this summer when the temp in Alabama gets to 99F and his DA is about 4000 feet.

 

[lal357]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

hey bigtimeaub if you need to go to the range i can go not this sat but the next the 24th just let me know man i dont mind. i have a chrono also.

larry

 

[BigtimeAub]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lal357</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey bigtimeaub if you need to go to the range i can go not this sat but the next the 24th just let me know man i dont mind. i have a chrono also.

larry </div></div>

Thanks Larry! I'm supposed to be going to Prattville that morning but I'm trying to weasel my way out of it. I'll let you know something as soon as I can.

 

[remau308]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigtimeAub</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thanks Larry! I'm supposed to be going to Prattville that morning but I'm trying to weasel my way out of it. I'll let you know something as soon as I can. </div></div>

Wait, isn't that the weekend you asked me to go shoot with you in Prattville? hahah

 

[BigtimeAub]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigtimeAub</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thanks Larry! I'm supposed to be going to Prattville that morning but I'm trying to weasel my way out of it. I'll let you know something as soon as I can. </div></div>

Wait, isn't that the weekend you asked me to go shoot with you in Prattville? hahah </div></div>

Sorta. You and I are going to go and do that on Friday. But I've got to go back Saturday morning to help my dad with a few things around the house.

 

[b_4]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

I am going to shoot a ladder at 500 on Monday. Berger 155.5 fullbore, CCI BR2, Winchester Brass and Varget:

 

[lal357]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

If the 34th won't work we could go the next Saturday I'm flexible

 

[XTR]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: b_4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to shoot a ladder at 500 on Monday. Berger 155.5 fullbore, CCI BR2, Winchester Brass and Varget:

</div></div>

What are you expecting for MVs at the top end? I think you are going to want to push that up to about 47 (or more). I know a lot of people running 44 to 44.5 under 175s so that's going to be way slow for 155s.

For 155s I'd start at 45 grains or more and go up from there. Keep the 44s to warm up and get a good zero, but I don't think you are going to learn anything you need to know till you get to about 46 in W-W. I didn't break 3000 till I got to 47.

 

[Longguns]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigtimeAub</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys. I appreciate all of the advice. I guess I should've mentioned that I don't have a chrono and I only have access to a 100 yard range unless I'm actually shooting in a match and/or someone invites me along ($1 to lal357) to shoot with them. I'm just a college student at Auburn, and there aren't any good ranges around here open to the public so I kind of have to make due with what's available. I wish that I had all of the opportunities and equipment that a lot of you have. I'm truly envious. </div></div>
Go to UTK and you can shoot with XTR at Oak Ridge. Go Vols LOL. Good Luck on your loads.

 

[b_4]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: b_4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to shoot a ladder at 500 on Monday. Berger 155.5 fullbore, CCI BR2, Winchester Brass and Varget:

</div></div>

What are you expecting for MVs at the top end? I think you are going to want to push that up to about 47 (or more). I know a lot of people running 44 to 44.5 under 175s so that's going to be way slow for 155s.

For 155s I'd start at 45 grains or more and go up from there. Keep the 44s to warm up and get a good zero, but I don't think you are going to learn anything you need to know till you get to about 46 in W-W. I didn't break 3000 till I got to 47.</div></div>

I am shooting mid range matches right now at a little over 500 yards so I don't need a real hot load yet. At 25 grains I get 2830 fps so I will be just below 2900 fps at the top.

 

[macgulley]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lal357</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the 34th won't work we could go the next Saturday I'm flexible</div></div>

I know it's a leap year but I don't think there's a 34th of February this year.

 

[lal357]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

yeah its been such a good month that i extended it

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

OCW is a waste of Internet bandwidth.

 

[DCR]

Re: Load testing for F T/R?

Probably why you should OCW at the range?