I just bought a Springfield Armory M1A loaded. According to their website it has a 1-11 twist bbl. I was planning on shooting SMK's 168gr bullets in it. I use Varget in my bolt 308, will Vargert be suitable in a auto? For you that reload for a M1A do you use a small base die or just a reg FL die? Planning on breaking out some old blue bx FGMM and see what it will do and then go from there. Thanks krw
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Loading for a SA M1A
- Thread starter krw
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Re: Loading for a SA M1A
I use FL dies on my supermatch. My rifle alos like IMR 4064 and 4895. If you could find the old M118 match (not LR) load with IMR 4895 you won't be dissapointed.
I use FL dies on my supermatch. My rifle alos like IMR 4064 and 4895. If you could find the old M118 match (not LR) load with IMR 4895 you won't be dissapointed.
Re: Loading for a SA M1A
Varget should be fine I would go 41-42 grains no higher than that. FL will probably be fine but I'd pick up a small base sizer off ebay just to be on the safe side.
Varget should be fine I would go 41-42 grains no higher than that. FL will probably be fine but I'd pick up a small base sizer off ebay just to be on the safe side.
Re: Loading for a SA M1A
I use an RCBS SB die for my M1A and my pet load is 43.5 Varget and a 175 SMK. Some say this is too hot, but it gets me the 2500 fps velocity I need to use the open sights properly and I see no pressures signs (using mil-surp brass). I can ring a standard steel torso plate at 600 and, depending on the adjustment of the nut behind the trigger, a 6 inch round plate at 600 (with stock sights).
I use an RCBS SB die for my M1A and my pet load is 43.5 Varget and a 175 SMK. Some say this is too hot, but it gets me the 2500 fps velocity I need to use the open sights properly and I see no pressures signs (using mil-surp brass). I can ring a standard steel torso plate at 600 and, depending on the adjustment of the nut behind the trigger, a 6 inch round plate at 600 (with stock sights).
Re: Loading for a SA M1A
My SA M1A thrived on Rem Brass, 175SMK at 2.815" OAL, 42.2gr of IMR-4064, and a reliable Large Rifle Match primer. This load is reliably supersonic at 1Kyd from the M1A.
I never needed the S/B die, but excessive shoulder length and seating length can cause FTFs. Resize the shoulder to just short enough to chamber reliably, and no shorter.
.2815" is the longest OAL that would reliably feed from my mags, and I gained no great advantage from longer OALs for single feed/fire.
For slam-fire safety, each singly fed round must be hand-inserted into the mag top and stripped off by the bolt.
Greg
My SA M1A thrived on Rem Brass, 175SMK at 2.815" OAL, 42.2gr of IMR-4064, and a reliable Large Rifle Match primer. This load is reliably supersonic at 1Kyd from the M1A.
I never needed the S/B die, but excessive shoulder length and seating length can cause FTFs. Resize the shoulder to just short enough to chamber reliably, and no shorter.
.2815" is the longest OAL that would reliably feed from my mags, and I gained no great advantage from longer OALs for single feed/fire.
For slam-fire safety, each singly fed round must be hand-inserted into the mag top and stripped off by the bolt.
Greg
Re: Loading for a SA M1A
Here is a good reference for the M1A:
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf
Here is a good reference for the M1A:
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf
Re: Loading for a SA M1A
SB dies are never going to hurt with an M1A, although most will function just fine on standard FL dies as well. Think of it as insurance. As for Varget, yes, it'll work just fine in the M1A, as will the 4895 and 4064 that other posters have mentioned. The current M118LR (175 gr SMK) has been loaded with Reloder 15 for many years now, and it also works very well in these guns. Depending on what you want to do with this, I'd seriously consider stepping up to a 175, and disregarding the 168 altogether. The military used to load this bullet for Match ammo (the M852 load) but have long since dropped it in favor of the 175 (the M118LR load, still in production) due to poor performance at long range. There's literally no difference in accuracy between these two bullets at shorter ranges, and the 175 can be kept supersonic out to 1,000 yards. As for the Zediker reference, by all means check it out. Glen's a terrific source of info for the gas guns, and I highly recommend his books. Great guy and a rock solid shooter, too.
SB dies are never going to hurt with an M1A, although most will function just fine on standard FL dies as well. Think of it as insurance. As for Varget, yes, it'll work just fine in the M1A, as will the 4895 and 4064 that other posters have mentioned. The current M118LR (175 gr SMK) has been loaded with Reloder 15 for many years now, and it also works very well in these guns. Depending on what you want to do with this, I'd seriously consider stepping up to a 175, and disregarding the 168 altogether. The military used to load this bullet for Match ammo (the M852 load) but have long since dropped it in favor of the 175 (the M118LR load, still in production) due to poor performance at long range. There's literally no difference in accuracy between these two bullets at shorter ranges, and the 175 can be kept supersonic out to 1,000 yards. As for the Zediker reference, by all means check it out. Glen's a terrific source of info for the gas guns, and I highly recommend his books. Great guy and a rock solid shooter, too.
Re: Loading for a SA M1A
It isn't the total pressure that effects M1A and Garands, it is the way the pressure curve hits the operating rod that can cause problems. I was told that some powders put too much pressure on the rod too quickly and can cause bending, even though the total pressure isn't too high. So, even though some powders have a low enough CUP level, they can still cause issues. I would stay with powders known to work well in that rifle...usually fairly slow powders with a low pressure overall. Powders around 4895 are really good.
Before I learned that I needed to check overall brass length EVERY time with my M1A, I had all sorts of problems. Once I trimmed brass every time, all the issues went away. I never did need small base dies. I would try standard dies first, then go with small base if the trimmed cases don't work right.
Using small base dies just works your brass harder. If you don't need to work the brass that hard, I wouldn't do it.
Brass that was fired in anything with a loose chamber like a machine gun takes more sizing, and doesn't last as long. Brass just doesn't last as long when it is used in semi-autos as opposed to brass fired in a bolt action rifle.
It isn't the total pressure that effects M1A and Garands, it is the way the pressure curve hits the operating rod that can cause problems. I was told that some powders put too much pressure on the rod too quickly and can cause bending, even though the total pressure isn't too high. So, even though some powders have a low enough CUP level, they can still cause issues. I would stay with powders known to work well in that rifle...usually fairly slow powders with a low pressure overall. Powders around 4895 are really good.
Before I learned that I needed to check overall brass length EVERY time with my M1A, I had all sorts of problems. Once I trimmed brass every time, all the issues went away. I never did need small base dies. I would try standard dies first, then go with small base if the trimmed cases don't work right.
Using small base dies just works your brass harder. If you don't need to work the brass that hard, I wouldn't do it.
Brass that was fired in anything with a loose chamber like a machine gun takes more sizing, and doesn't last as long. Brass just doesn't last as long when it is used in semi-autos as opposed to brass fired in a bolt action rifle.
Re: Loading for a SA M1A
Right idea, but other way around; slower burning powders are the ones to avoid. The issue is one of "port pressure", that is, the amount of pressure in the system as the bullet passes the gas port. Relatively quick powders or mid-range powders (4895, Varget, 4064, RL-15, etc.) are the correct choices and will provide good port pressures with normal loads. Slower burning powders, such as 4350, will have much higher pressures remaining as the bullet passes the gas port. This results in the very violent cycling and can (will) damage the system. This is more of a problem with the M1 than the M14/M1A, but it should be avoided in both. And yes, this applies efven to loads that generate perfectly safe pressures, even below the SAAMI limits for the cartridge.
As far as SB dies and case life, you're talking about three (3) firings total, period. Brass used in either M1s or M1As needs to be tossed after the third firing, due to their rather brutal chambering/extraction cycles. Extending brass usage beyond that point is asking for trouble, and eventually you'll find it. Not worth the risks, and just a very good protocol to get into as a regular rule.
Right idea, but other way around; slower burning powders are the ones to avoid. The issue is one of "port pressure", that is, the amount of pressure in the system as the bullet passes the gas port. Relatively quick powders or mid-range powders (4895, Varget, 4064, RL-15, etc.) are the correct choices and will provide good port pressures with normal loads. Slower burning powders, such as 4350, will have much higher pressures remaining as the bullet passes the gas port. This results in the very violent cycling and can (will) damage the system. This is more of a problem with the M1 than the M14/M1A, but it should be avoided in both. And yes, this applies efven to loads that generate perfectly safe pressures, even below the SAAMI limits for the cartridge.
As far as SB dies and case life, you're talking about three (3) firings total, period. Brass used in either M1s or M1As needs to be tossed after the third firing, due to their rather brutal chambering/extraction cycles. Extending brass usage beyond that point is asking for trouble, and eventually you'll find it. Not worth the risks, and just a very good protocol to get into as a regular rule.
Re: Loading for a SA M1A
The most commone and accurate in just about all M1As and M14s is 41.5 grns of 4895, either 168 SMKs (out to 600) and 175 SMKs for 1000 yards.
Winchester Brass, and Federal Match primers.
It equals federal match and LC M852.
Been working for me shooting high power since that load was recommeded to me in '78 by the USAMU. (Back then for 1000 it was the older 180 SMKs, but not todays 180s, go with the 175s)
The most commone and accurate in just about all M1As and M14s is 41.5 grns of 4895, either 168 SMKs (out to 600) and 175 SMKs for 1000 yards.
Winchester Brass, and Federal Match primers.
It equals federal match and LC M852.
Been working for me shooting high power since that load was recommeded to me in '78 by the USAMU. (Back then for 1000 it was the older 180 SMKs, but not todays 180s, go with the 175s)
Re: Loading for a SA M1A
Have used the M-14 and M1A, each one rifle has a different chamberas do all rifles. If using the M1A in three gun or simular type of shooting, small base sizing would be to your best interest, chamber heating up my experience has shown that small base sizing is your friend.
When a slow fire is done most full length sizing works in most cases.
IMR 4064 has been a standard powder for years and is used today in the military.. http://m14forum.com/ammunition/120692-m118lr-handload-recipe-question.html
There is a great deal of information on the M-14 forum as well.
http://m14forum.com/
I have used IMR 4064 @ 42.2 gr, FC 08 cases, 210M on trimed primer pockets with a couple of thousands recessed off head stamp, 175gr SMK and shooting a 3/4" group supported position at a 100 yds.....
Opinions will vary and with all reloading information check it out and work up watching for pressure signs for chambers vary.
Have used the M-14 and M1A, each one rifle has a different chamberas do all rifles. If using the M1A in three gun or simular type of shooting, small base sizing would be to your best interest, chamber heating up my experience has shown that small base sizing is your friend.
When a slow fire is done most full length sizing works in most cases.
IMR 4064 has been a standard powder for years and is used today in the military.. http://m14forum.com/ammunition/120692-m118lr-handload-recipe-question.html
There is a great deal of information on the M-14 forum as well.
http://m14forum.com/
I have used IMR 4064 @ 42.2 gr, FC 08 cases, 210M on trimed primer pockets with a couple of thousands recessed off head stamp, 175gr SMK and shooting a 3/4" group supported position at a 100 yds.....
Opinions will vary and with all reloading information check it out and work up watching for pressure signs for chambers vary.
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