Night Vision Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

[madppcs]

Ok heres the deal. I have a few rifles I will list. I want a non-magnification clip on that I can swap between rifles. My price range is 1500-3000.

1st rifle is a 7mag in a McMillan A5 with the McCann SIRS mount. I don't have a scope for this rifle yet, but it will have low rings and a 50 or 56mm objective.

2nd rifle is a Rem700 308 in an AICS chassis. I will be adding a Fwd rail to accommodate a Clip-On. This has a 4.5x14 Mk4 TMR reticle with low rings

3rd rifle is a Bushmaster AR. It has an Eotech (Cant remember the model)

Whats my options?

 

[JohnnyC]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

Here's the deal, you're pretty much SOL. Nothing is on the market that's of decent quality, and certainly nothing that's actually worth the 1500-3000 you'd be spending. You're better off saving up another 2 grand and getting the TNVC clip-on when it hits the market.

SOME people have had luck with the ATN PS-22's, about a 50/50 shot of getting one that doesn't suck out of the box. A few people have gotten crappy ones and have made them work but they're good with NV repair.

Some have also had good luck with the D-930's but I hesitate clamping anything on the objective of a scope. Also, using a clip-on in front of an EoTech sucks. You really want an IR laser with a head-mounted NOD, or at the least weapons mounted behind the EoTech.

 

[madppcs]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

Yea I understand about the Eotech. I knew it would be in between not working or causing me to move my Eotech everytime I wanted to use it.

Bottom line is, Im not spending more than I listed because Im not gonna be performing dynamic entrys inside buildings at night or making 1000yd (Kill Shots) on (Hi Value Targets)at night.

Im just an everyday guy with some great rifles looking to shoot at night. If I have to take a couple moments more to make out my target at a distance, Im fine with that. I don't need the best and most expensive on the market. And Im not trying to fall into that mentality like day scopes that (If you don't have a Schmidt-Bender then you cant hit or see shit at distance).

People have been dropping targets with Gen 1's at distance since they were introduced in the 60s-70s in Vietnam. Im sure I can do just fine with a decent Gen2 or lower Gen3. Im just not in the market to spend top dollar on the latest and greatest.

 

[Phantom223]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

For you price range I would think about just buying a gen 2+ to gen 3 NV rifle scope and maybe a 223 handi rifle to mount it on for night setup. With clip-ons you just need to spend $5000 plus to get a depenable unit so if saving money is your game maybe a NV clip on is not a good choice for you. You can only shot one rifle at a time anyway better to have one good night setup that will center punch a target out to 200 yards vs three rifles and a cheap clip on that you can't count on to hit the target at 100 yards on all three rifles. If nothing else buy a NV scope with QR base and QR scope rings for your current AR/Optic setup and swap to the NV scope at dark it only takes seconds to make the change most good mounts will go back to 1 MOA at 100. You should be able to find a gen 2+ D-740 and be real close to a standard gen 3 model with the money amount you listed above. I had a D 740 2 SHP years ago it did well on really dark nights it needed some IR help but other than that it held POI great and held up to lots of shooting. I have a gen 3 D-740 now its seen years of abuse still works like new.

 

[JohnnyC]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

The problem is what you're looking for does not exist. Your bottom line is not compatible with the reality of the market situation.

You can take your chances with the ATN unit, that's it. Most clip-ons are in the $8k-$10k range (PVS-22, PVS-24, PVS-27), consider that when figuring out what you're looking for in a clip-on.

Realistically, your best best is some type of dedicated night vision setup like a D-740 or similar. Dedicate a gun to it and be happy.

You are not going to get a Ferrari for Ford prices, which is what you seem to think you are going to do. A Gen 2 SHP is at the far upper limit of your desired price range and that's a dedicated scope. Gen 3 is out of the question, and the Gen 1 scopes that were used in Vietnam were dedicated weapon sights, often with massive amount of extra IR illumination. You're just not going to get a reliable, useful clip-on for $1500-3000. You need to either change the amount of money you are willing to invest, or change the equipment that you are willing to invest in.

 

[Augustus]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

A PVS-14 behind your Eotech will work pretty well. You should be able to get one for around 3000.00

 

[madppcs]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

I should have said that I don't mind having an IR light to assist. I wont be carrying this whole setup much (If at all).

I can get a ATN PS22-2 for 1899.00 Is this a good price? Is ATN even a good product to begin with?

 

[madppcs]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

Nevermind the price I listed. I found it for 1700. Still looking for feedback on ATN as well. Or maybe the good vendors on this site can chime in and lend some advice? lol

 

[JohnnyC]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: madppcs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is ATN even a good product to begin with? </div></div>

No. Like I mentioned in my first response, these have something like a 50% failure rate RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. People who have repaired these have lots of experience repairing and collimating NV optics.

How about you call some of the vendors and get their opinions instead of waiting around for them to come to you? You don't seem to believe the things that myself and others have posted, why not call TNVC, MOD-Armory, ASM, yourself and see what they have to say.

 

[madppcs]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

Well, honestly I have a hard time believing that I absolutely have to spend 10,000 on something like this. Im not saying this in any disrespectful way, so please don't take my responses that way.

Like you referenced earlier, about a Ferrari and ford. I don't want a Ferrari,lol. Im fine with a ford. As long as its a good ford that runs and gets me to point A to B and doesn't break down.

Like day scopes, not everyone NEEDS a Schmidt-Bender. I really need to get some experience with them somehow. I really am speaking from in-experience on the NV market. And Im very thankful for your responses. The only place that I feel I could see these things first hand is at a local shop to me, but they only have ATN.And I cant call for another month cause I work overseas and Im at work right now.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

look man, you're not getting a clip on that worth two shits for under $5k. look at the wasp from tnvc if you have to go that route. if not spend 3k on a top of the food chain pvs-14. the image resoultion cant be touched by any gen 2 device. night vision is expensive and to get performance thats acceptable for positive target id on game or foe its a necessary to spend money. you owe anything your about to put a bullet through to know for sure it is in fact what you want to shoot....throwing lead at a set of eyes is unacceptable in my book.

 

[wes1]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

I have a ton of experience with the PS22. I am the guy who started the PS22 saga on ARFCOM. The first two that we purchased from Cabela's BARGAIN CAVE were early production units with Gen2 Russian tubes. One worked, the other did not. When I say "worked", I mean, it was collimated correctly. Those two were returned to Cabela's. Next, we bought 5 or 6 Gen 3 units without tubes. We installed our own tubes, built a collimation table and correctly collimated at 100 yards. All of those are stilling going strong, with a "shift" of less than a MOA. Those PS22s have thousands rounds between them. IIRC there has been 4 different "generations" of PS22 housings, with latest having a focus knob, rather than a "ring". There's a few detailed threads out there about what went into the PS22 testing.You can still find it on wolverine tech forums. I think ATN read the threads as I believe they are now correctly collimating the factory built units.
To the OP: I don't think the PS22 is going to work for you as it's "sweet spot" is for scopes 2x-8x with an objective of 40mm or less. My preference is a TA31F ACOG behind the PS22.
I am not a fan of ATN, but the PS22 works.

 

[gyz77]

Re: Looking for a clip on for multiple rifles

I run a PVS-27 (KAC UNS-LR). It was very expensive!! But it's worth every penny. Save up and buy one unit that will WORK!! Mine works everytime!! You can take chances or just get quality from the start. I chose KAC!!

 

[jwp6114]

it hit me hard to save up for a pvs-22 but well worth the coin. I dont make a ton of money and am very happy with my purchase. if you rush into some junk, you will be kicking yourself later.

 

[W54/XM-388]

If you want good for the cheapest price, I would get a very nice PVS14 which will be close to $3k for a good one.
Then get a helmet mount for it, which is pretty cheap and an IR laser, that will cover what you want to do with your AR most of the time. (or a clip on mount to put it behind the eotech)
Then for your other rifles, either get a really good rugged clip behind the scope system (probably about $350), or spend about $1800 more to get http://blackoptex.net/index.html one of those to clip in front of your scope. That will work for your 2 main rifles.

Cheap crap is simply going to waste your time and money for anything other than hog hunting at close range with illuminators.
Find someone that can demo the systems for you and you'll really quickly see first hand the difference between good night vision and cheap crap. Not sure about dealers in LA, since everyone I know is in TX, but I'm sure somebody sells them around there and can demo them.

 

[jdr724]

The other more remedial/obvious issue you'll run into with using whatever you buy on all 3 of those rifles is you're optic heights are all different. You would need to standardize to the NV mount height which is generally 1.5"

I'm aware ATN says 308/7.62 is OK BUT do yourself a favor and if you go with the ATN DO NOT attach it to anything with more recoil than 5.56. The only 2 people I know(and hunt with) that have them both had a failure immediately following light use on a 308/7.62. They have the fairly recent Gen3's which collimate properly

 

[Rob Banks]

I just picked up a PS22-3a that was an opened for Shot Show in Jan. I am picking it up for 2,990 and that includes an illuminator. I too am trying not to drop 10K on NV and had to hold back from the 640 Thermals.

Is that a good price IYO?

I'm gambling on the 50/50 issue, but I am handy enough that I will try to fix any issues myself (going in blind but confident..

 

[JohnnyC]

I just picked up a PS22-3a that was an opened for Shot Show in Jan. I am picking it up for 2,990 and that includes an illuminator. I too am trying not to drop 10K on NV and had to hold back from the 640 Thermals.

Is that a good price IYO?

I'm gambling on the 50/50 issue, but I am handy enough that I will try to fix any issues myself (going in blind but confident..

I wouldn't pay $3k for one but if it fits your needs go for it. Being handy and being able to correctly disassemble, correctly collimate, and correctly reassemble night vision are two different things, but if it is screwed up, definitely give it a shot.

I think wes1 is sort of selling himself short here. I saw the threads and such and those guys put a lot of hard work into getting their PS-22's to function correctly.

 

[Rob Banks]

I see them going for $4,500+ online... Is figured it was a decent deal, but now I'm itching for a TNVC WASP. Looks like a well built optic! Will probably flip the PS22-3a.

 

[jwp6114]

I see them going for $4,500+ online... Is figured it was a decent deal, but now I'm itching for a TNVC WASP. Looks like a well built optic! Will probably flip the PS22-3a.

I had an itch for the wasp, but it went away when I was told the product would ship to users by the end of January and it didn't, and hearing that there will be a special pre-order price but we aren't going to tell you what it is, and so on and so fourth... By the time your tired of waiting on the wasp you will have saved up enough cash to buy a Pvs-22 as I did

 

[MikeeBooshay]

Have you even called Victor at tnvc yet?

Look, NV costs money, their is no cheap way out. After you get something that works, you need one more, so your buddy can shot with you. Everyone is trying to show you the light, at least make the call, you won't be sorry that they kept you from wasting your money.

 

[gyz77]

I agree. Everyone here is trying to help you not waste your money. I saved up, more like sold lots of gear!!!, to get my PVS-27. It was worth it!! Now I need to convince my buddy to get one! I won't let him borrow it!!

 

[I^2 Technologies - Peter]

it hit me hard to save up for a pvs-22 but well worth the coin. I don't make a ton of money and am very happy with my purchase. if you rush into some junk, you will be kicking yourself later.

Aren't you still eating beans and rice with an occasional cup of (out of date, bought at the dollar store) Ramen noodles? Then again things haven changed much from being in have they? LOL

 

[fister13f]

I use a PVS 22, they are built like tanks and work very vell.

 

[wigwamitus]

I have an ATN PS22 and the "collimnation issue" seems to be persistent. I sent it back to ATN for "adjustment" during the Oct 2013- Dec 2013 period, but it still shot about 5-6 MOA high and right relative to day zero. I had been mounting on the scope. ATN suggested I mount it on the rail instead. Doing that got me down to about 3-4 MOA. Then I tried holding an adjustment and got to within 2 MOA. So I guess I can get to the point where I can dial an adjustment. I've tried to read every thread I can find on the internet about the issue and I've found two groups of folks (one who posted here) who have corrected the issue themselves. But I'm not a professional NVD re-collimnator, so I'm not sure about all the details. If all I have to do is adjust the three screws on the rear of the housing, then I'd be up for that, especially if I knew which screws did what! But , if I have to take the whole thing a part and make some tools to help do that (like one guy on one thread did) ... then I'd rather just adjust the day scope knobs when I put the NVD on and re-adjust when I take it off. I guess I got the 50/50 die roll both times (once out of the box, and once again when I had it re-done).
I just hope I can get it to work!

Any suggestions welcome - and yes - I learned that for this purchase I did NOT do nearly enough due diligence, shame on me!!!

 

[Mattitude]

Any feedback on the Pulsar DFA 75? Excuse my ignorance but I know basically nothing when it comes to NV and all I know is that this clip on is a digital unit. I'm only asking because I saw one at the gun show today and the vendor was badgering the snot out of me to trade that unit for my ACR (or his SIG 516). Any real advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[specopsk9]

I have an excellent condition Simrad with mount for $3,500. Pm me if interested.

 

[RobertB]

Op. If you wanna cone to west Carroll in a week or so while I'm home I'll show you what I got and what you can expect for what I consider bottom line e stuff that works well. Budget in nv gear.

L3 tube d760. Awesome optic
ITT pinnacle pvs22 with a nice tube. Respectable clip on.
L3 pvs14 that you can put on a gun and shoot a ways but not recommended.
And I got a little flir toy too.

I don't have the best collection but would be willing to let you try em out. If your interested. Don't gamble on that kind of money.

 

[Delta4-3]

You can get a gen2 clip-on unit in your price range. However, you have to realize the limitations of both gen2 and a clip-on system.
I have sold several Gen 2 HD Armasight CO-LR's and they perform very well for a gen2 clip on. With Gen 2+ an illuminator will make all the difference in the world.

For tactical use, where lives are on the line, I wouldn't recommend anything short of gen3. But for hunting and playing, Gen 2 is very capable. The internet is full of people that will tell you gen 3 or nothing. This is partly correct. If you can swing it, go gen3 by all means. However, I am not made of money. I use almost all of what I do have on my wife and kids. That $1200 difference between gen2 and gen3 is the difference between me taking my daughters to Disney Land, or them not leaving the house.

I sell the Gen2+ HD CO-MR for $2,195. Gen3 versions start at $3,599. However, I have a new policy, as of yesterday, that all Hider's who are active duty military or LEO get 10% off. In addition, I'll give 5% off to all VETERANS. That's right, If you have served before, Ill give you a discount for your sacrifice. I am a vet myself and fully appreciate what you have done.

I sell the Gen2+ HD CO-LR for $2,699. I think it is probably the best Gen2 clip on you can buy. Granted, I'm sure I have not used them all, but I think it would be hard to beat.
I also have a group buy going on Gen3 CO-LR's.

 

[JohnnyC]

I'm curious to see if ATN improved at all with their PS-28. If the managed to fix the collimation issue, it could be what the WASP isn't.....available....

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

give up playa! no such thing as a good clip on for less than $6000 or so. Get a pvs 14 and do your best.

 

[11B-B4]

CNVD-LR, anything less and you will be disappointed.

 

[Mattitude]

Did I say a dirty word or something? Like I said I'm very new (and ignorant) to NV and from my reading I do realize that digital can't compare to Gen3 (what about Gen2??) but I'm just looking for something to hunt with, not find bad guys in the dark. Is there anything wrong with the Pulsar DFA 75? I have the opportunity to get a new one on a trade (for my Bushmaster ACR) as being a disabled veteran living on a fixed income I just can't afford Gen3...or Gen2 for that matter.

 

[wigwamitus]

With a decent moon (3/4 or better), I can see and hit targets at 150yds with no light assistance other than Ill Ret, which isn't absolutely needed, but helps a bit. This probably applies to 200yds as well, but I have not tried it at 200yds yet.

In Kansas (where I am) it is not legal to hunt with any lights that project to the targeted creature, whether visible (tac light) or not (infrared). There are a few exceptions, but this is the general rule. We are not up to the "Texas Standards" yet!

...[legal equipment includes]...Range-finding devices and optical scopes or sights that project no visible light toward the target and do not electronically amplify visible or infrared light may be used with any equipment...

Other Wildlife / Hunting Regulations / Hunting / KDWPT - KDWPT

 

[GhengisAhn175]

Mattitude,

I think you're not understanding the actual concept of looking through a gen 2 vs gen 3.

Nv is a piece of gear you don't want to skimp on. Not only because of visible quality but like others have mentioned here.. The fact that it may not work out the box.

Honestly it sounds like you're not ready for the nv side of things. Think about it this way, you know someone getting into shooting.. Are you going to recommend them a 22 single shot bolt action? It does exactly what its supposed to do, but you know they're going to be disappointed with it in a short while. You would recommend something better, am i right?

Were not asking you to spend to dollar, were telling you that you need to increase your budget a bit so you'd be happy with your nv experience. Furthermore, if you still don't like it, resale value with not plummet.

Hope this helps bud.

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