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Rifle Scopes Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

jmyner99er

jmyner99er

Private
Minuteman
Sep 6, 2009
12
0
51
Sacramento Ca
#1
Hey guys, I bought my first rifle, a Sako A7 in 7mm rm. Im kind of overwhelmed on what scope I should buy. I have $2100 to spend, and to me it’s a huge purchase. (I don’t plan on buying another scope of this caliber for a very long time) I have been researching scopes for a few months now, endlessly! Im to the point where I need to get one and start finding a sweet load.

I plan on using this scope for mule deer hunting in Wyoming this year, but Im thinking, I will get more use from it at the range shooting 300yd (possibly more) I would like to be confident in possibly shooting accurately out to about 600yd.

I almost bought on impulse the other day a z5 3.5-18x44 with the ballistic turret. Im not sure if a z6 would be better? I figured the z6 3-18x50 would be a well rounded scope, but Im not sure if the 2.5-15x56 is better (compared to the other z6 3-18) or how the z6 2.5-15x44 compares to the z5 3.5-18.

I know any of the above scopes are nice, but I really like the Zeiss Victory Diavari FL 4-16. It’s more $$$ then I want to spend. And of course, you have Schmidt & Bender, which I know nothing about except they are up there too.

Im seriously thinking about getting a Swarovski, and Im thinking about getting a Swarovski ballistic turret, but not sure. I do like the simplicity of predetermined settings, but I only count 4. (guess it would be ok if it were zeroed in at 300) What are your thoughts on the BT. (remember Im no expert when it comes to doping, or optics)

What is preferred, a front focal plane or a secondary focal plane?

Another important question is given the above scopes and objectives, what scope mounts and/or rings should I get? I would be willing to pay around $125. I think the A7 came with weaver type mount.

How would you guys set up this rifle?

Thanks for being patient and taking the time to read this.
 
#3
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

Is this going to be your only rifle or do you have other rifles which you are going to be using for target shooting? Because, good high powered glass is going to be heavy and I am not sure it’s really what you want for a hunting rifle. A zeiss conquest would be really nice on a hunting rifle, or if you want a mil dot there are some really decent scopes in the $600-$1000 range available now.
 
#4
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

Thanks for the reply.

This will be my only shooting rifle. I wont be hunting all time, I will get more use at the range. I hear, once you understand the mildot its a great reticle, but for me, I think its to busy.

S&B has me pondering. I have read the Summit is an excellent 1" scope.. I could afford that. Im just not sure if I would be getting more going with one of the z6 model that puts me at my funds limit. I know nothing about the Zenith or the PH, Im not sure the differences internally between the three S&B models.

Im really considering one of the Swarkovski model.
 
#5
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jmyner99er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys, I bought my first rifle, a Sako A7 in 7mm rm. Im kind of overwhelmed on what scope I should buy. I have $2100 to spend, and to me it’s a huge purchase. (I don’t plan on buying another scope of this caliber for a very long time) I have been researching scopes for a few months now, endlessly! Im to the point where I need to get one and start finding a sweet load.

I plan on using this scope for mule deer hunting in Wyoming this year, but Im thinking, I will get more use from it at the range shooting 300yd (possibly more) I would like to be confident in possibly shooting accurately out to about 600yd.

I almost bought on impulse the other day a z5 3.5-18x44 with the ballistic turret. Im not sure if a z6 would be better? I figured the z6 3-18x50 would be a well rounded scope, but Im not sure if the 2.5-15x56 is better (compared to the other z6 3-18) or how the z6 2.5-15x44 compares to the z5 3.5-18.

I know any of the above scopes are nice, but I really like the Zeiss Victory Diavari FL 4-16. It’s more $$$ then I want to spend. And of course, you have Schmidt & Bender, which I know nothing about except they are up there too.

Im seriously thinking about getting a Swarovski, and Im thinking about getting a Swarovski ballistic turret, but not sure. I do like the simplicity of predetermined settings, but I only count 4. (guess it would be ok if it were zeroed in at 300) What are your thoughts on the BT. (remember Im no expert when it comes to doping, or optics)

What is preferred, a front focal plane or a secondary focal plane?

Another important question is given the above scopes and objectives, what scope mounts and/or rings should I get? I would be willing to pay around $125. I think the A7 came with weaver type mount.

How would you guys set up this rifle?

Thanks for being patient and taking the time to read this.
</div></div>

It seems to me you should keep waiting to buy a scope until you are more informed about what features in a scope would be most beneficial to you.

If I were in your shoes right now I'd make another post asking for SH members in your locale that could meet you to show you their scopes.They could hopefully show and explain the pro's and con's of different types.

Don't be leery of scopes with hash marks in the reticle.They are extremely handy to have.

Personally if I were to suggest a scope for you right now for hunting and range use it would be a Nightforce 3.5-15x50 SFP with matching turrets and reticle.It's a good tough scope that you can grow into.You'll have to decide whether you want mil/mil or MOA/MOA.I used to have MOA but changed over to Mil and consider it easier.The high speed knobs and zero stop are great features and worth the money.

You've read this?

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=378812#Post378812
 
#7
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

Steve that is a good idea on getting together with other members. Im not really leery on hash marks in the reticle, mainly the mildot. I was planning on getting Swar BRH/BRX reticle. I was curious about their ballistic turret.

With the help of this forum last year, I got on the JBM calc for my dads Swarovski and printed a chart with help so he wouldnt have to guess with holdover on a plain plex reticle, like he has been doing all his life. (he made an incredible shot to his and his friends suprisingly)

Maybe it wasnt the best idea to post in snipers forum asking about hunting scopes. I have held a few NF (not sure of models) they were heavy and built extreamly well! (like drop off a two story roof well)
 
#9
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

If I have that money to burn, I would go with a Nightforce 5.5-22x56 (reticle of your choice) with Zero Stop and NF ultralight rings. www.sportoptics.com will probably help you out with a $2200 scope with rings with it. Talk to Jay, he is really is a cool guy and a member here...
 
#10
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

You may want to consider USO 1.8-10x37, it's a great all round optic. They will help you spec it to your use, the best customer service in the industry, durable well made and you would find 1.8-10 to be ideal for hunting and range use out to 1000.

Merlinn
 
#11
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say get a 3.5-15X50 nightforce with MOA MOA or MIL MIL. Save the rest for ammo and such. Good luck </div></div>

I would add zero stop and high speed turrets. I second Jay at Sort Optics.
 
#12
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

There's no need to spend that kind of money on a first scope for a hunting rifle. Check out the Zeiss Conquest - Sportsman's Warehouse in Rocklin should have a few of the 4-14 with the target turrets. That would be the most scope I would put on it.

As far as rings and mounts go if it came factory with weaver bases front and rear then just get some rings, warne are cheap and I've never had problems with them although you might need to get them lapped. If you have any doubts about that call JGSales in Rocklin, they are pretty knowledgeable and can answer any questions you might have.
 
#13
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

I have a 5.5-22X50 Nightforce on my .308 and a Vortex PST 6-24X50 on my .223. They are nice scopes, but I think that there are better choices for a hunting/range rifle.

Quite honestly, as big a fan of the Nightforce scopes as I am, I do still like the Swarovskis. I had a Z5 3-18X model with the BRX reticle. I liked it a lot. The glass was crystal clear (better than the NF), it had a wider field of view and was much lighter. For a hunting/range rifle, I'd have to go with the Swaro. I opted for the Nightforce because I wanted something with a more robust build, although I admittedly sacrificed some glass quality to get it.

Really, Swaro or NF, you can't go wrong with either. The big advantage that you'll get with a "tactical" type of scope is the robust build. If you don't need that, you don't need to pay for it. As has been mentioned, a good "tactical" style of scope is going to be heavy. A lot heavier than a Z5.

Oh, just a tidbit, but Swaro does say that the Z5 remains waterproof with the turret caps off. I'd imagine that the same is true of the Z6. The major difference between the Z5 and Z6 is the tube. The Z5 is 1" and the Z6 is 30mm. They both use the same erector system.

I'd stay away from the Ballistic turret. I considered it, but didn't read a single positive comment about them from users. They just offer no advantage, according to what I read.
 
#14
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

For a hunting gun I would get a scope without exposed turrets. They just get bumped around when in the bush/ on the mountain whatever. get something with caps. Nightforce benchrest models come to mind, but there magnification is too high to be a great hunting scope.
 
#15
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jmyner99er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve that is a good idea on getting together with other members. Im not really leery on hash marks in the reticle, mainly the mildot. I was planning on getting Swar BRH/BRX reticle. I was curious about their ballistic turret.

With the help of this forum last year, I got on the JBM calc for my dads Swarovski and printed a chart with help so he wouldnt have to guess with holdover on a plain plex reticle, like he has been doing all his life. (he made an incredible shot to his and his friends suprisingly)

Maybe it wasnt the best idea to post in snipers forum asking about hunting scopes. I have held a few NF (not sure of models) they were heavy and built extreamly well! (like drop off a two story roof well) </div></div>

Yep,as usual there are trade offs.Weight etc.In this case a scope designed for hunting and military style tactical scope.

The NF is about the same length as the Swaro Z5.
It weighs nearly twice as much as the Z5 but is only 14oz more,so less than a pound.
It's got nearly twice the elevation travel of the Z5 but not quite the glass,although very good glass.
The zero stop is a nice feature because there's little else more frustrating than being a revolution off and forgetting which line is your zero line.

How far did your Dad take his Deer from?
 
#17
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

In a way, it's kind of a shame that you need all of that magnification. I really can't fault you for wanting it because I also like a lot of magnification for shooting paper.

On the other hand, if you had just said that you were looking for a hunting scope, I would have pointed to you the Nightforce 2.5-10X32. It is compact for what it is and, although I wouldn't call it light, it certainly isn't heavy. It's also built like a TANK. What is unique to the compact NXS is that it has a stop on the windage turret as well as the elevation turret, so even though they aren't covered, getting back to zero is a non issue.

I did recommend and make some positive comments about the Swaro and Nightforce above, but I did so because they were in the magnification range that you wanted to be in. Personally, I don't like a scope with a parallax adjustment in the field. They just don't lend themselves to taking fast shots at targets of opportunity.

It's just really hard to buy one piece of equipment to cover needs that range so diversely between hunting and punching paper. I do have a Nightforce 5.5-22X and love it for what I got it for, which is long range shooting and punching holes in paper. I do still run a Nightforce 2.5-10X on my hunting rifle where precision accuracy isn't needed as it is for varminting and shooting at other small targets. Heck, I still have a little Nightforce 1-4X that I use in the woods because it is just so darned convenient and fast and I know that my shots won't be past a couple hundred yards.

Good luck on the search.
 
#19
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

I don’t know how much shooting you have done, but if you don’t have a lot of trigger time I think you would be better off buying a Zeiss Conquest or a Vertex Viper and a CZ 452 or similar. A lot of what you learn shooting rim fire will directly applie to your other rifle. There won’t be much recoil but otherwise it’s similar. You can switch the scopes between your rifles until you have a better idea of what you need. People need to fire thousands of rounds before they develop a sense of shooting, and a light weight 7 mm Rem. Mag is not the right rifle to learn on. I shoot a 7 mm Rem. Mag in F-class, and it was not a gun I would want to have to learn how to shoot on. Starting with a rim fire will teach you not to flinch. Plus if you are ever in a situation where you need to take small game a 22lr is the way to go.
 
#20
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

Tony has got the right idea.
Go with the 2.5-10x32mm NXS. I have one on my 300WM. Can easily shot out to 800yards on 10x.
It only weighs 19oz and is built like a tank.
 
#21
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

I would get a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 for about $700 new and save the rest. There is no reason to put a huge tactical scope on a A7 7mm especially a gigantic nightforce with a 56mm objective and weighing in at 2 lbs that's just ridiculous.The zeiss has better glass than the nighforce and weighs alot less.
 
#22
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

I'd bet spending a few hundred on a good smith to pillar bed your action, freefloat your barrel, and lighen up your trigger and putting a $1500 scope would likely benifit your rifle more than just $2100 glass. Unless you've already had your rifle tuned up, of course.
 
#23
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

I'm in the same boat...Building a Do-it-All rifle and have my choices narrowed down to like a 1.7x10-42 Z6 or a NF 2.5-10x32. More than likley I will go with the Z-6 as it is better glass and will be better in low light situations. I actually like the NF look and reticle better but with a 32mm objective I just think the light gathering abiltiy is not there.....

I have a Z-3 3-8x36 on my .308 AR and the glass is great so I feel I had rather put my dollars in good glass than robustness especially since the scoope will mostly be shooting at a 200 yard range and hunting in the southern state 200-300 yards shots a max.....

Just my 0.02 cents
 
#24
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

Tactical_Tom and TonyAngel Z5 3.5-18x44 compared to z6 3-18x50 are pretty much the same? Difference being light gathering of 50mm at max mag and elev/windage adjustments of the 30mm tube? Tom I agree, I don’t think Im the worst shot, but I definitely need proper shooting discipline. I did just pick up a Win mod 70 in .223 that I plan on shooting this year as well.

Thanks for the heads up and providing a name and link for sportsoptics, I appreciate that.

Santo, I heard high speed turrets brought up in a few discussions, what makes them high speed? Are they like Swaro ballistic turret where its set at a predetermined position?


BCP, I think the conquest is a great scope, I have fondled a few of them, but what info I gather they’re not quite the quality as Swaro. I have been reading about how good Badger’s are (which I have never heard of, but Im no guru) without getting to off topic on bases/rings, after I order a scope I will start a new topic on mounting. To me, having top quality optic is a confidence builder, compared to the mid-range class. (if that makes sense) (especially, when Im no a pro)

TonyAngel, aggiesig, and steve123 thanks seem liked a honest unbiased post. Setting this up for a once or twice a year hunting rifle, and being able to hit the range for fun is my primary use. I totally get the trade off thing, well said. Tony Im not sure I need 18x, and im kind of thinking the 2.5-15x56 would be perfect. I shot a few lower end scopes at the range at 300yr and and I couldn’t see my shot placement. I also used my dads 3-12x50 swaro there, and could see my shots. His scope used high rings (unknown) in Rem 700 300wm and seem to fit ok (meaning I didn’t feel like my neck was extended to see) Im thinking the 56mm obj. wouldn’t be any different?

Steve, Im sure it wasn’t a shot that the majority of SH member would think as far, but understand, my old school dad that’s been hunting for 40yrs would totally guess on holdover, and only use the his turrets to adjust for zero. I printed him up a drop chart and laminated it for the stock of his gun. With the amount of info the calculator provided from input, it sparked him up. He only had about five inches in view at about 430 yards. I spent a lot of time being consistent from reloads to the range. The result was a four point heavy horned muley! He was pretty excited.

Bluejazz “Go with the 2.5-10x32mm NXS. I have one on my 300WM. Can easily shot out to 800yards on 10x.” Impressive! Is the maximum distance you shoot a function on how much elevation you get from a scope? Im just curious how many clicks does that NXS give?

Tunanut, that makes sense. That’s a can of worms I haven’t opened yet. The Sako A7 is probably more accurate then I am. I believe its pillar bedding? Im not sure why Sako wouldn’t of made if free floating if they thought it benefited the accuracy.


BNix, your 0.02 cents is appreciated. You feel my dilemma. I have read a lot about Swaro. I wish I could fondle S&B, and Kahles to compare with my own eyes.
 
#25
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

435 yards is a decent stretch and probably really far off compared to what your Dad is used to.

The NF Highspeed knobs have 10 mils or 20 MOA per turret revolution.Compared to the old style turrets which are half as much.

I shoot at 1000Y quite a bit which is around 7.8 mils so I'm not even past the first rev yet.

I also have a NF 2.5-10 on my AR.It's a great hunting scope.I've used it out to 600Y no problem.
 
#26
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

Ahh, so one click of the turret gives you more elevation? Now is that the hash marks or do you mean "turret revolution" as in 360deg of rotation?

Two Questions;

* how does one figure out the maximum distance a scope will give you for elevation? (i.e. one of the Swaro models im looking at)


* No one has told me the difference between Front Focal Plane and Second Focal plane. What are the trade-offs on that? Whats would a sniper prefer, what would hunter prefer, or even a benchrest shooter?
 
#27
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

The Z6 has HD lenses while the Z5 does not it also has a 30mm tube, wider field of view, bigger objective and other smaller improvements. If you don’t need 18x Leica also makes some nice scopes.
 
#28
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jmyner99er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ahh, so one click of the turret gives you more elevation? Now is that the hash marks or do you mean "turret revolution" as in 360deg of rotation?

Two Questions;

* how does one figure out the maximum distance a scope will give you for elevation? (i.e. one of the Swaro models im looking at)


* No one has told me the difference between Front Focal Plane and Second Focal plane. What are the trade-offs on that? Whats would a sniper prefer, what would hunter prefer, or even a benchrest shooter?</div></div>

Jimmy you need to get out to the Sacramento Valley shooting center. They have a wide variety of matches, everything from highpower, tactical steel, 1000yard, etc. Every match has something a little different and everyone I have ever met out there at a match has been more than willing to share their thoughts on why they go with the gear they do. You will see guys compeditive with pretty basic rigs and you will see those with every little gadget available. It is well worth the time to get out there and take a look at some of the rigs to see what is being used.

Personally I run a FFP Super sniper 3x9 on my primary hunting rifle, Tikka T-3 .270, and keep a FFP with similiar reticle on my match rifle. For me the FFP shines on a hunting rifle because I have the flexibility to dial in the elevation or simply hold it with the reticle and never have to worry about the magnification. Most "hunting" scopes are set up in the SFP and have to be at a certain magnigication for the reticles to match up with the predicted yardages.
 
#29
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

I still think the USO 1.8-10x37 built as you like it is a great option. It a top quality very versatile scope. Great for both range and hunting, plus if you ever need it, customer service that is second to none. A scope with ergo and erek comes in under his price point.

Merlinn
 
#30
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jmyner99er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ahh, so one click of the turret gives you more elevation? Now is that the hash marks or do you mean "turret revolution" as in 360deg of rotation?

Two Questions;

* how does one figure out the maximum distance a scope will give you for elevation? (i.e. one of the Swaro models im looking at)


* No one has told me the difference between Front Focal Plane and Second Focal plane. What are the trade-offs on that? Whats would a sniper prefer, what would hunter prefer, or even a benchrest shooter? </div></div>

NF Highspeed = 10 mils per a 360 degree turn of the turret.The NF has 30 mils total travel so it would have 3 full turn.However a scope is hardly ever at the bottom of it's elevation travel when the rifle is zeroed,most likely near the bottom with a angled base.

The Z5 has 58 MOA of total travel.The NF has 110 MOA total adjustment.I don't know how many MOA per rev the Swaro has.

I myself prefer FFP.It has the most advantages IMO.The one fault by design is when you dial the magnification down to the lower/lowest setting the reticles appearance is very small.So that makes it harder for a snap up quick shot at close range compared to a SFP scope.

Here's my sorry attempt at reticle pics of a FFP scope on different settings.See how the reticle shrinks and grows with mag.That's because the reticle is always on the same plane with the object whereas in a SFP scope the reticle stays the same size but the image shrinks and grows.

Here's a better explanation of FFP vs SFP that Trigger Monkey wrote.Just scroll down a bit.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1938091#Post1938091

6X
DSC00563.jpg

I can't remember what this was probably around 12X
DSC00560.jpg

24X
DSC00559.jpg
 
#31
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

Dont rule out a nice VX3 with the lighted ret. and have the custom shop put a matched CDS on it. Pretty effective to say the least for a hunting rig........
 
#32
Re: Looking for advice, $2100 to spend on first scope.

Awesome, I see now steve, and thats for posting that link!

Thank you!

Norcal, you are so right.. I bought a Dan Wesson pm7 .45 a year ago, and I still havent shot it...

I ordered the z5 today, 3.5-18x44 with the ballistic turret. I almost got the z6 2.5-15x44. (it was in the cart) With the $600 I saved Im going to get abolt on sale in 300wsm.

Moving on to rings/base.

(here I go again)

Thanks for everyones input! Shoot safe!
 
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