Looking for some insight from those with experience. I am planning on attending this years Sniper Adventure Challenge that requires bolt action and carbine/semi platforms. I need to pick up a semi and am thinking SCAR 17, KAC ACC, or LaRue PredatOBR. I have had numerous SCARs in the past and have really liked them. I don't know if I am a AR-10 platform fan, but have a contemplated a KAC for sometime and recently thrown the tOBR in the mix. I'm looking for something that is fairly light weight, handy and fairly accurate. I don't need benchrest accuracy, but would like better than minute of man. I plan on running suppressed (Deadair Sandman-S). Any suggestions on these three?
- Thread starter dbransco
- Start date
The new Mod 2 KAC's are pretty nice, and fairly light for what they are. But, I'm sure them or the Larues will be fine shooters.
If weight and minute of man accuracy the SCAR 17 is the way to got. However I prefer the PredatOBR.
Lots of opinions. Different requirements mentioned. Two of my favorite accurate .308 semis are the LaRue OBR and the LMT MWS. The MWS is heavy, though. LaRue offers a lighter weight version, the 'tAR, which is nice, but accuracy fades slightly. KAC is good, and very well built, but I have never seen the KAC as a rival to LaRue or LMT, in terms of accuracy. the FN SCAR gives you an advantage on weight, but I have not seen one outshoot a LaRue or LMT.
Honestly if I wasn't going to build an AR15 or 10 I will lean heavily towards KAC. A lot of guys will trash talk them but until you have owned one it's hard to appreciate what the money buys you. My first was the gen 1 LPR and every other one since then that was not a KAC left a lot to be desired in accuracy, fit and finish and features except fore my custom lightweight 3 gun rifle built on a battle arms development recieved set and an 18" proof barrel that cost $3,300 in parts alone to build to give you an idea. I've owned noveskes, colt, LMT, LWRC, stag etc to compare too.
As far as AR 10' specifically go the KAC, Larue and a DPMS gen 2 recon are the most consultantly accurate rifles I've repeatedly witnessed performing. The one big difference is my buddy paid like $1200 for the dpms..... another $1,000 in parts the DPMS can be tricked out to the gills and still be around half the cost of a large or KAC. And this is coming from a guy that has never liked dpms...
As far as AR 10' specifically go the KAC, Larue and a DPMS gen 2 recon are the most consultantly accurate rifles I've repeatedly witnessed performing. The one big difference is my buddy paid like $1200 for the dpms..... another $1,000 in parts the DPMS can be tricked out to the gills and still be around half the cost of a large or KAC. And this is coming from a guy that has never liked dpms...
Ive owned all the ones mentioned. My Larue printed the most accurate group followed very closely by my KAC. Within .1. As in a.4 vs a .5 for my best groups. My MWS was more in the .8 to 1.1 range but was the CL barrel version. Ive never shot my SCAR for groups. I still have the OBR, KAC and SCAR. Sold the MWS.
Either build something or buy a JP. If you build something, my vote goes to a 2A armory Xanthos, and the rail from them. Pair with a Proof Barrel and go to town.
I got a used 16" Larue 7.62 Predatar and finished load development today. It has a lightweight barrel on there to keep weight down and weighs 7.75# unloaded with no scope. It weighs a lot more the way I outfitted mine as it has a bipod, SiCo Omega, 25oz Bushnell LRHS 3-12x scope, and QD mount but it's still lighter than a tOBR or OBR would've been. I tested 168gr FGMM, 168gr Hornady AMAX, and 150gr Federal American Eagle and those loads didn't shoot very well. About 2-3 MOA. However, it's been shooting 175-178gr loads better, a little bit bigger than 1/2 MOA.
Attachments
Funny, my tOBR won't shoot 175s worth a crap but it puts the 168 FGMM in half inch groups if I do my part, the test target was .44x.
My larue 7.62 would put 5 shots inside a dime. It was very accurate. I currently own a KAC EMC that will shoot sub 1/2" groups also. I liked the larue trigger better for accuracy. The larue was set up with a PRS Stock which helped. I owned both at the same time. I sold the larue and kept the EMC.
If I like ( can ) to spend like $4-5K
this My choice
NEMO XO Carbon 308 20" barrel
https://nemoarms.com/rifles/xo-carbon-308
"" Two-position adjustable gas system for suppressed/unsuppressed shooting ""
this My choice
NEMO XO Carbon 308 20" barrel
https://nemoarms.com/rifles/xo-carbon-308
"" Two-position adjustable gas system for suppressed/unsuppressed shooting ""
Last edited:
Larue PredatOBR fan here... Keep in mind that you can easily swap the barrel out and make it a 260 at some point
Either figure out a way to make a Barrett MRAD semi auto, or get a KAC.
Those are really the only viable options.
Those are really the only viable options.
get a scar. its accurate, reliable and combat proven.
I like my SCAR a lot. But I don't think its in the same accuracy league as my OBR or my SR25. But I fully admit that is not based on my own experience as I run a LPV on mine and have never shot it for groups. But I have run into a few who have who reported around 1 moa + or - .2
I agree that JP should be in the mix as a finished rifle or the barrel/BCG/SCS in a Mega MaTen receiver set. Also, Mega's new SF is crazy light. I had an original OBR that shot great, but weighed a ton. If the TOBR was around back then, I would have gone that direction and would likely still have it.
I really want to try the new savage msr 10 LR. oddly. At 9lbs all up it will be 2 lbs less than my JP weighs. And the JP has a proof barrel.
I'd buy a quality lower and trigger, and let the guys at MSTN build you a bad ass upper to your spec.
I have owned JP, Larue, and Knights. I still own the Knights.
I owned a JP LRP 07. Wonderful rifle, accurate, balanced well. However I hunt in cold climates, and the metal hand guard got old on the hands after about an hour. I also couldn't get use to the side charger. Not the rifles fault, just not the rifle for my application.
I then bought a larue Predatar and predatobr. Both were very nice, and very accurate. Fit and finish A+. Solid lock up of the recievers, no wiggle. The Predatar was nice to hunt with. However I sold both, and this is why. Both of them were highly over gassed, with much more felt recoil than both the jp and the knights, even with the addition of a surefire brake. Both left case swipe on brass, and the xtraxn chamber could make some softer brass a little interesting to reload. On the predatobr, I was told I would be able to buy barrels in multiple other calibers, yet still the .260 barrel cartridge has yet to be released to the public. 3 years is a little absurd to get one barrel cartridge available.
Now I own a Knights ECC, it is the sweetest shooting 308 I have ever shot. I added a mams, and holy crap is it a pussy cat. Recoil is very, very light. Brass comes out of it like it was shot by a bolt gun. Its not quite as accurate as the larue, however it has a chrome lined barrel, and still shoots under an inch. The polymer grip panels are perfect on my hands in the cool weather. I love this rifle, it is the pride of my collection.
Hope this helps with some added opinions.
I owned a JP LRP 07. Wonderful rifle, accurate, balanced well. However I hunt in cold climates, and the metal hand guard got old on the hands after about an hour. I also couldn't get use to the side charger. Not the rifles fault, just not the rifle for my application.
I then bought a larue Predatar and predatobr. Both were very nice, and very accurate. Fit and finish A+. Solid lock up of the recievers, no wiggle. The Predatar was nice to hunt with. However I sold both, and this is why. Both of them were highly over gassed, with much more felt recoil than both the jp and the knights, even with the addition of a surefire brake. Both left case swipe on brass, and the xtraxn chamber could make some softer brass a little interesting to reload. On the predatobr, I was told I would be able to buy barrels in multiple other calibers, yet still the .260 barrel cartridge has yet to be released to the public. 3 years is a little absurd to get one barrel cartridge available.
Now I own a Knights ECC, it is the sweetest shooting 308 I have ever shot. I added a mams, and holy crap is it a pussy cat. Recoil is very, very light. Brass comes out of it like it was shot by a bolt gun. Its not quite as accurate as the larue, however it has a chrome lined barrel, and still shoots under an inch. The polymer grip panels are perfect on my hands in the cool weather. I love this rifle, it is the pride of my collection.
Hope this helps with some added opinions.
This rig gets the job done. Ringing steel out to 1000m all day long on a calm day.
Larue all the way.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Larue all the way.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I have fired SCAR H at distance and with the slower twist and the fact they eat up scopes I'd go OBR if ur looking for a SASS.
Apples and oranges. Just the right tool for the job.
I've also fired the M110 KAC at distance and you can't go wrong w that either. They are pricey.
I admit it, I drink the Larue kool-aid. Just my preference and opinion.
For a MOUT mission w a target rich environment SASS all the way.
There ain't no problem a 338 lapua won't fix tho...
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Apples and oranges. Just the right tool for the job.
I've also fired the M110 KAC at distance and you can't go wrong w that either. They are pricey.
I admit it, I drink the Larue kool-aid. Just my preference and opinion.
For a MOUT mission w a target rich environment SASS all the way.
There ain't no problem a 338 lapua won't fix tho...
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Scar is ok. Pricey by the time you add a trigger magwell, different gas screw, trigger and it eats optics.
I would look at a JP
hear good things about Larue and the newer Knights.
I would look at a JP
hear good things about Larue and the newer Knights.
A vote here for Seekins. Especially if you don't require a piston setup, i think they represent the best price/performance out there.
You can get a sub-MOA SP10 in 308 for under $2100 to your FFL and a 6.5CM setup for about a 10% premium.
http://www.seekinsprecision.com/rifles.html
You can get a sub-MOA SP10 in 308 for under $2100 to your FFL and a 6.5CM setup for about a 10% premium.
http://www.seekinsprecision.com/rifles.html
Have a Scar 17 and absolutely love it, but I SBR'd it to 13" for a do everything rifle. Ended up ordering a GAP10... but decided to sell it just before GAP finished the rifle because I bought a KAC SR25 ECR that I immediately slapped on M110 parts onto. The KAC shoots way better than even I expected it to so I didn't feel the need to have a GAP10 even if it was in 6.5 Creedmoor. I was just too concerned about barrel life and how expensive/hard it would be to get a new barrel on it. GAP uses their own barrel dimensions/profile so I think only they can replace the barrel.
Sorry I shoulda clarified more. When I ordered the GAP10 initially, I was told that most of the barrel specs are proprietary or secret... and that the only way to get a true replacement barrel is to send it back in.
Besides the barrel dimensions/profile... I don't think there's anything else special about it compared to something like a Seekins AR10.
Ive got an OBR and i love it, shoots .5 MOA at 800 if i do my part with 190 grn nosler hand loads. Was recomended by one of the Range 37 SOTIC instructors at Ft. Bragg years ago, he was spot on, Larue makes a fantastic rifle and their customer service is nothing short of stellar.
Apologies for the partial derail: who SBR'd your SCAR for you? Years ago I wanted the 16, but only in an SBR and at that time FN was flat out refusing to make factory short barrels available at that point. There were a few shops trying to do it, but reviews weren't confidence-inspiring with gas issues.
I would take the tOBR over all others mentioned. I own 3 and also a KAC ECC. I love my Knights and consider it to be hands down one of the most well put together and reliable rifles out there but in terms of accuracy, it is not the equal of my OBR or tOBR AR10, at least in my hands.
You may also want to look at the Les Baer AR10s. They are supposed to be lasers and reliable but I can't attest to that via first hand knowledge. My buddy's GAP10 is also pretty amazing.
Good luck
This is what kept me out of a SCAR17. $4500 into the rifle to "get it right" and for what? I'm no operator.
I like piston rifles and have owned POF P308 and PWS MK220/MK216. Both very reliable, clean-running, accurate and under $2k. Neither is a perfect rifle but either could be my "if I could have just one gun".
Back again to remind you about the KAC M110-K1
In terms of accuracy, i would think the refined AR platforms are slightly more capable than the SCAR in that area.
