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Night Vision Looking into Digital Night Vision,

btstrohfus

Private
Minuteman
Dec 8, 2017
46
2
At the moment im looking into digital night vision, its seems to offer a good image for the money. Im looking for a unit to hunt coyotes in the midwest, i would like to try thermal in the future, but for now the price its just to steep.
Ive looked at the following because they seem to offer a good image out to a couple hundred yards and are reasonably priced.
....Pulsar n355 ultra
....ATN 4k pro 5-20
....Sightmark Photon RT
Im sure there are many others... would like to know of better units....

I'm aware that i will need to purchase an external , more powerful ir iluminator or laser to make these units perform the best. I'm wondering if any of these are better than the other, or if any are worth the money, perhaps a better option available? thanks alot....
 
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The Sightmark Photon is the only one I've heard of people hunting with ... though personally I think 6.5x is way too much magnification.

With a better illuminator and terrain which is cooperative with your agenda ... out to 200yds is possible.

If you can find one of the older 4.5x Photon's that would help with the FOV issue. If I had to have a digital NV setup, I'd look for one of those ...

I occasionally take a Bushy Equinox-Z 4.5x monocular out with a T-20 illuminator on it ... and I can see and ID deer at 200yds just fine ... with a good moon on a clear night, I can see and ID deer out to 400yds ...
 
Wig. I have learned so much from your posts and talks over the past couple years. Both on thermal and NV. Killswitch was the one who got me thinking on the PVS-30. That piece of kit was a major upgrade. Above I see your now scratching the surface on digital NV. Can it get any better than the current set up I'm using.
S&B 5x20 US ------ PVS-30 ----- LN-ELIR-3 IR illuminator
I read where the guys make reference the Simrod on how well it preforms. From the size of it's objective lens I guess the answer is yes. The LN - ELIR - 3 is my first illuminator and it being paired with the PVS-30 is truly a perfect system for my hunting application. This may sound a bit backwards but I think the Ultra Short suits me better at night. Great optic in the day light, OUTSTANDING optic after S/S. 6 power is the sweet spot.
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I’m not trying to push you to other stuff, but have you looked at NV Clip-ons? I ran my Gen 2 HD Armasight CO-X in front of a 2.5-10 day optic for my first few years. I’m selling it for $1400 and there are others out there for similar money. Add a $350 Luna and you’re realistically identifying animals at 200-300 yards with a day scope that you trust. These low end NV and thermal optics do not inspire a lot of confidence for me.
 
Very true. I’ve had several of these conversations with friends and farmers who know I night hunt. I show them a few of my thermal videos and they’re really interested until I tell them the price. Most of them saw a digital NV ad in Sportsman’s Guide. I won’t say too many things about digital NV because I haven’t used it, but the advertising seems a little optimistic.

I’ve looked at a rabbit in my backyard at roughly 150yards with my CO-X, Vortex, and Torch Pro illuminator. I knew it was a rabbit. Kinda. Would I bet my paycheck on it not being the neighbor’s cat acting a little weird? Probably, but if it’s not 100% with this setup on a suboptimal night, I can’t imagine a $500 digital NV scope with WiFi and dvr can do better.
 
I have two of the bushy equinox-z .. the 3x and the 4.5x ... I like the 3x due to bigger FOV ... with T-20 illuminator ... I can see anything in the open I would shoot at any distance I would shoot it ... so it is a useful spotter ... for critters in the open ... And those are $300 or less, plus the illuminator for another $30 ... but they are not scopes ... On the other hand, they are not $2000 or $3000 entry point for hunting usable thermals ... with a focus ring.

So, certainly the current digital NV have serious limitations ... but, they are not useless either ... as long as the critters are out in the open ... and large enough or close enough to be seen.
If nothing else, a person gets started in the field and learns why they need to set their sights on the more expensive gear.
A person may say "I don't have the funds" ... but if the person has a job ... then it is really just a matter of priorities and time. How long to save up enough to get the whatever widget.
I started with a Yukon Gen 1 digital binocular ... it was REALLY crappy ... I advanced from there ... I never dreamed I would have more than one thermal when I got my first one, now I have six ... and a PVS-30 and 2 x PVS-14s as well ... so as you gain experience, your priorities change !!! :)

Digital NV is the future ... and remember thermal is digital. Digital NV, in 5 years might be the whole ball game ... and any of us still using the "olde crap" might be viewed as "users of vintage gear" ... but those days are not here yet and digital can't compete in low night on the NV side. But time will tell if it can catch up and pass. I would bet it can.
 
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Completely agree Wig. At the rate technology is changing its just a matter of time before digital surpasses current capabilities.

However, to your point, I was originally thinking of getting a digital scope until I looked through a friend’s. I made the decision right then to just save for a while longer and reprioritize my investments to get something I will be happier with in the long run.
 
This is my first post here. I joined up just to respond to the OP because I have been in his situation for the last few months. So my story was that a buddy and I anted some inexpensive NV to kill a few problem coyotes. I watched tons of reviews and ended up getting a photon rt 4.5s. This was one of the new models a month ago and I got it on sale for $515. I also picked up a UNV 20IR illuminator. If I had to do it over again I would have bought the TNVC torch pro illuminator because of the modularity. Overall though the setup works pretty good. I can see pretty good out to about 200 yds with the illuminator focused. There are plenty of good reviews on the photons so I won’t go into a lot of detail but I will say a few things. The photon is great for taking shots in an open field. It is easy to zero and it holds zero well. It is not good for short distances inside of 50 yds because the fov is tiny, but it will work if it’s what you have. It is not great for scanning for the same reason, it gets tiring, but once again it will work if it’s what you have. It’s not great for anything if you have a lot of foliage in the area you are hunting because the IR light will reflect back at you from anything between you and your target and keep you from seeing past that obstruction. It is extremely dependent on clear weather conditions for good performance. Don’t let that scare you off. Go out on clear nights, have a good ir illuminator, and position yourself in a clear area. It will then work great. Understand it has a narrow fov and it won’t disappoint you. I would stay away from the 6x unless you are taking shots over 150 yds over 75% of the time, the fov is already narrow enough on the 4.5 to be limiting.

Having said all of that, I have seen some great videos on the pulsar digiscopes. They have more reticles and fuction more like the pulsar thermals in the menus. From the videos I see they seem to work better than the photon without IR light. You can find them for less than $1000 and they have a 3.5x model with a better fov than the photon. I would be very tempted on one of these if I was buying again. The photon is made by pulsar I beleive so I would assume as good or better performance in the digisight.

As far as the ATN. They seem very cool. People either love them or hate them. Most of the criticism seems to be centered around QC, low battery life, spotty performance, and poor customer support. But I don’t own one, this is just what I see. Also keep in mind the 4k models are brand new, I don’t think they are released yet and I haven’t seen a single review on them yet. I saw somewhere ATN isn’t giving them out for reviews until after the release. That would make me nervous.

Also having said all of that. Digital night vision is a gateway drug. I bought mine a little over a month ago and it was cool enough for me to suddenly be super ok with dropping $5k on my new pulsar thermal that will be in my hands tomorrow. So be warned. If you only want to buy once, you might want to look at a thermal from the get go. You are hunting midwest so I’m assuming you will be taking longer shots? If that were my case I’d look at the trail xq50, and the new flir pts 536, or 736. It’s all about how much you want to spend. Also if you don’t know, you can rent a lot of this equipment online to try befor you buy. Just an fyi. Hope that helps.
 
That’s kind of my point though. Around $1000 for a digital NV setup with narrow field of view and potentially shoddy zero and tracking issues. CO-X clip on and Luna for $2K and you might have something you can trust. I invest too much time into hunting at night around my work and family schedule to walk out into fields at 1am in the cold to trust a $600 ATN. Everyone’s priorities differ.
 
Agree, and I've recommended CO-x setups even recently ... though the SIMRADs have been available for around the same price ... and folks have been going for them instead ...
But if you think you are in the $500 club ... the $2k club ... sounds like a different club ... :)
 
For what it’s worth, I have no problem recommending a $250-300 Nikon riflescope to a guy who is looking at a cheap but reliable scope for his Savage 243 to shoot a deer or coyote. I can’t justify to him why he needs a $2000 Nightforce or S&B for his stated purpose.
As technology sits today, I’d rather suggest the $2000 option of a clip on/day scope than a $600 digital NV scope with a few electronic gizmos that you want to upgrade after one night of wasting your time. My co worker asked me about some “Made in the USA, NV scope with WiFi” for $600 he saw in Sportsman’s Guide. The advertisement photo was a nighttime picture of the front of a garage with its lights on. Looked good. I then showed him a YouTube video of a PVS30 in front of a S&B hog hunting. I showed him what $8k buys and he wasn’t that impressed with that performance so I know he would be throwing $600 away on junk due to his expectations.

I’m just passing along my own mistakes because I dropped just under $3k on a new Gen 2 clip on, Torch Pro, day scope, mounts etc and the more you use, the more you justify upgrading.
 
I just got done testing and demoing a f155 digital clip on from pulsar. It’s usable and works fairly well with good illum. One factor however that I cannot get past that would keep me from using in the field is the lag time in image tracking. It’s like a slow processed thermal. There’s no way in hell you could shoot a mover with it in my opinion.
 
Haha ... oh my goodness ... well ... you ASKED !!! :)

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Here is a pic ... and you can google PVS-9 ... and read ... it is a BIG MOTHER !!!

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simrad2_zpsgslsroib.jpg
 
It looks to me like i need to either save up somewhere around 3,000 for a NV unit that attaches to an existing scope for best results. Or closer to 4-5,000 for a good thermal unit, correct?
 
ive seen tons of thermal hog hunts on youtube, but almost all the shots are taken within 50 yards or so. i believe i would need a unit that would give me great definition out past 100-150 yards on a coyote. am i correct to assume i would be much better off getting a 640 unit with 30hz over a 336-384 unit with 60hz for that kind of distance?
 
Well redneckbmx (sp?) was hawkin' some simrads for below $3,000 ... you could try sending him a PM and see if he has any left or can get some.

The PVS-30 refurbs are $4,500 tp $5,000 with equivalent performance, per KSE. Several people have those, like Surgeon_Shooter, that's where I got mine.

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For a thermal clipon, with 4x magnification support, those are under $5,000 (like Pulsar "Front Attach" 50mm) ... but for 10x magnification support those are over $10k. Like FLIR T-75 or BAE UTC/UTC-x

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For shooting out to 150yds ... 4x is plenty of magnification.


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... i correct to assume i would be much better off getting a 640 unit with 30hz over a 336-384 unit with 60hz for that kind of distance ...

Yes, 30hz 640 is better than 320-384 50x/60z unit ... more resolution ... and you don't need the higher refresh rate for hunting on foot.
 
For 150yds coyote a Pulsar, either Apex or Trail will work really well.

The Trail XP50 1.6x 640 is best/perfect for that distance as even 1.6x is plenty of magnification and if needed, you can go to 2x digital and still have a very useful image.
 
surgeon_shooter can get the pulsars as can others ... BUT the xp50 model is rather popular and hence has 1-2 month lead time ... the older Apex 50mm is a 384 ... but much more available ... so depends on your availability requirements.
 
I got super lucky the other day and found my XP50 in stock. That’s what I bought, and I have the same hunting scenario as you. If you are ready to buy, PM me and I will tell you where I got mine. They had 5 in stock 3 days ago. They have 1 left, so you may need to jump quick. I think they also have 1 xp38 left. Everywhere else quoted me 8+ weeks backorder. I just simply got dead lucky.
 
ive seen tons of thermal hog hunts on youtube, but almost all the shots are taken within 50 yards or so. i believe i would need a unit that would give me great definition out past 100-150 yards on a coyote. am i correct to assume i would be much better off getting a 640 unit with 30hz over a 336-384 unit with 60hz for that kind of distance?
Do your research, then separate your wants from your needs. This site is ripe with knowledge as well as arm chair quarterbacks. Wig, Surgeon Shooter & Killswitch older posts can provide you with all the data you need. As they say over at Triad Tactical ... buy once cry once. Enjoy the process.
I used to be in the Thermal camp, now it's my best hand held scanning device.
 
Out of all the good scope as Sportsman's Guide the ATN night vision scope is probably the best one as the reviews appear to be from actual customers.
 
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