Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

[charlestondiving]

His family is upset he got shot... on his third mugging of the night while already on probation.

http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regional-b...yz/-/index.html

___________________________________________
Family members of a 16-year-old boy who was shot while committing a robbery in Berks County say he didn't have to die.
Julius Johnson was killed and his friend was wounded last week when police say the man they were attacking in Cumru Township shot them both.

In his family's home a single candle burns in memory of Julius Johnson.

It all happened last Wednesday.
Prosecutors say Johnson, who was already on probation for aggravated assault, robbed two men in West Reading and was attempting to rob a third along a bike path in Cumru Township in Berks County.
But the would-be victim was carrying a licensed firearm, and shot two of his attackers.
Johnson was killed. A friend is now in the hospital.

Johnson's mother, Idella Hopkins George, said, "Do I believe he was justified in shooting my son? I would say no."

The family acknowledges Johnson's actions were wrong, but they question why a warning shot couldn't have been fired first.

Johnson's sister, Ashley Jones, said, "He's a kid. His actions-- I don't approve of his actions at all, but he didn't deserve to have his life taken."

In recent days a Facebook memorial page has been flooded with sometimes hateful posts -- referring to Johnson as a "thug" who died like the dog he was.
For his family, dealing with a tragedy and questions about what more they could have done, the words have been painful.

 

[KHOOKS]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Over the past few weeks it seems I have heard the same story alot. I guess people are growing tried of the woodbe robbers trying to take what little we have. Maybe these DA people that pull this sh_t will begin to take notice and think a job is a better way to get money.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

The loss of a loved one is never easy. Alot of the comments made under that article were uncalled for. Who would say their own child deserves to die? (even if they do) They obviously know where they went wrong as parents, but that doesn't make the loss of a child easier. People have the right to defend themselves against violence, it's too bad this kid didn't make some changes before it cost him his life.

It's also unfortunate that stories like these get pitched to the public to fuel anti gun laws.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

If the dude wanted a warning shot, there have been lots of them lately. The papers are full of other idiots getting shot trying to rob someone,

Shouldn't that be enough for a warning shot.

 

[tomcatfan]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Well in all fairness, the guy who shot him saved the 4th victim, 5th victim, and so on. I don't understand how so many people rush to defend those who prey on others. It sucks someone had to die, but it also sucks that the dipshit was dumb enough to rob people. As far as "warning" shots... fire arms 101. Don't shoot at anything you don't intend to kill. If I have to pull a trigger, the only warning your going to get is that period of time between seeing my gun and the bang.

 

[RATSACK]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

The guy Johnson who was already on probation for aggravated assault, should have tried to change his ways and just maybe, he would not have paid the price he did.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

This is a picture taken of the incident...

 

[rusty815]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

No warning shots when you feel your life is in danger, would you fire a warning shot if you were getting robbed at gunpoint?

 

[anthony_se]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

ArmaHeavy, that pic in this context just "made my day"

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Families, especially mothers, always have a hard time dealing with the reality that a young family member was a criminal and died because of his or her activities. It's hard to accept the idea that better parenting might have made the difference for both the child and the victim, and so they blame either the presence of a weapon or whoever it was who was forced to punch their kid's ticket at a tender age. Strangely enough, even if their kid was armed, it's still the other guy's fault.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

The 16 year old should have thought about the grief he was bringing on his family.

He is to blame, nobody else is.

 

[old95b10]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

What the hell ?
He wanted to be a THUG?
Welcome To THUG LIFE !!
Sometimes THUGS get killed! If robbing folks was any more easy it would be a high school class.. If you want to be a bad ass gangster and make people scared of you dont get mad when they make you dead. too fuckin bad!
So sick of these PUNKS mommys on the news !
If She had brought him up right we would not hear of this shit.

 

[SIG700]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Say he gave a warning shot... that ended up killing or wounding an innocent. Now what?

IF YOU HAVE REASONABLE CAUSE to draw your weapon (I.E. you feel the situation clearly qualifies under Doctrine of Competing Harm)- Use it.

"Do not draw unless you're going to fire. Do not fire unless you're going to hit your attacker. Do not shoot to wound." - PA State Police officer when I was at the court house handing in my paperwork for my LTCF

The article did not state- However I would like to know if the kids were weilding a weapon. If so, good job to the "to be victim". If not... he'll see jail time and was unjustified. PA law and DOCH is very clear on this.

Doctorine of Competing Harm summed up- to qualify 3 criteria must be met

1). Ability. The person deemed to be a threat must possess the ability or power to kill or maim.

2). Opportunity. The person deemed to be a threat must be capable of immediately employing his power to kill or maim.

3). Jeopardy. This means that the person deemed to be a threat must be acting in such a manner that a reasonable and prudent person would conclude beyond doubt that his intent is to kill or cripple.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Once upon a time, not so long ago, if a family member like a child was guilty of a crime against his neighbors, like Robbery, Murder, Rape, or anything else that dishonored the family, the community, and their church, the family left town. they were no longer welcome, and knew it, unless they disowned and cast out the offending family member.
Now they blame the victim for protecting him or her self. And sue.

But they need'nt worry. He probably has 8 or 9 half brother and sisters and 3 kids of his own who will follow his example.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

In Ohio recently a paper,I think the Toledo Times, ran a editrial (no byline that way) bemoaning the fact that a couple shop owners or employees,when faced with armed robbers, shot themin self defense. The paper wailed about how innocent people couldhave been hurt in a hail of gunfire, and that society would be a much safer and civil place without citizens carrying guns. Better to let the robbers have the money and nobody gets hurt, and the Police and Courts will take care of it, eventually. After all, that's why we have Police, and Laws, and Courts. And Defense Lawyers.

 

[THE MGD]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

He got his "warning shot" when they snapped one of his mug the first time he did it.
Besides in my state it is illegal for a chl holder to "fire a warning shot"
If any law should be advocated it should be proper parenting of a child. Im starting to feel like people should have to apply for parenting license, as im seeing it more dangerous than carrying a weapon. That or when the child gets juvinille probation the parent should be evaluated and sent to classes.
Just my opinon

Fyi +10 for all the posts above me, the only thing that pisses me off more than these stories are people defending the offender.

 

[Immorteq]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

The perp and momma shoulda educated themselves on the finer points of self defense as it relates to vulnerable adults. Momma is just another example of generations of Americans coddled by a system that will never impose/allow appropriate consequences for irresponsible behavior and this is where it leads. I feel bad for the old man and what he'll probably go thru after a trauma like that.

 

[Yasherka]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

There is no such thing as a warning shot. If you need to pull a gun on someone the time for warnings have long since passed. IMHO not only did the little turd need to be turned into fertilizer, his family should reimburse the victim for all the practice ammo he's used for the last say, two years and the cost of his CHL training.

I love happy endings.

 

[GreyShirts]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Honestly what do ya'll expect? This will lead straight into a wrongful death lawsuit. I'm a cop, and even when we have to take a life because someone left us with no other choice we get sued. It sucks, but that's how it is. We get put under investigation by our own department, treated like we actually did something wrong, and they take our gun away while the investigation is ongoing. Then after all that is done, the real trouble starts. The family of the unfortinate person now 6ft under because he thought he would go out like a highlight real from get rich or die tryin; sues us. They tell us to prepare to loose everything, because we might have to pay $1 million or as much as our house, car, and everything we own is worth. It's nuts I agree, but thats what our society has accepted. Face it...current politics, laws, and society has given the guy I arrested lastnigh more rights after the arrest, then I had while performing my job. Props to the guy for having a concealed carry license and a legally registered firearm. OH and knowing how to use it during a violent attack. Not fair my backside.... I have a partner who was paralyzed from the torso down because of three attackers. He was off duty at a pub and the owner asked him to ask these three dudes to leave, knowing he was a police officer. So he did. It resulted in the three guys causing his current condition, which he is attempting to recover from. Anyways, one of these mopes had his trial the other day and got 15yrs in and 15yrs out probation. As he was leaving the courtroom he told media "its not fair it was only a bar fight, this ain't right". Guess what it wasn't a barfight you and two other friends jumped one guy, knowing he was an off duty cop. Not faif, tell that to my partner who can't walk, hold his sons over his head, play ball with his boys, run with his boys, do his job that he loved, hang out with everyone else without having to have a nurse constantly with you, and actively help with coaching his sons football team. I could go on, but it will only make me more mad. Sorry for the rant.

 

[anthony_se]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Gov. Corbett's signing of our new, extended Castle Doctrine law last summer, which went into effect as I recall Oct 27, 011, precludes any civil action brought by the assailant's family. Doesn't mean the family won't try, however, so on that count you're correct IMHO. Furthermore, I don't think there is any case law on it yet, so that raises at least the very real probability that the family will have retained a scumbag lawyer over Reading way to try to establish the first case under the new law. Even so, if it gets to Court or Judge for a hearing, and either rules that there is no basis for filing such a suit, given the new law, then defendant, the shooter, gets all of his court costs paid by Plaintiff. IANAL, so that's just my read of the law. Perhaps somebody else here from PA can chime in

and, more important, greyshirt, I hear ya where you coming from; those bastards needed hanging! That's why there is need for a Heaven and Hell - they'll get theirs big time. Hope your partner is recovering as best as he and his family can. I'll think some good thoughts for them

and pray that they can make the best of a horrible tragedy.

 

[palma]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Hopefully PA has felony murder and they charge the friend.

 

[E3C3H3O3]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage 10fp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well in all fairness, the guy who shot him saved the 4th victim, 5th victim, and so on. I don't understand how so many people rush to defend those who prey on others. It sucks someone had to die, but it also sucks that the dipshit was dumb enough to rob people. As far as "warning" shots... fire arms 101. Don't shoot at anything you don't intend to kill. If I have to pull a trigger, the only warning your going to get is that period of time between seeing my gun and the bang. </div></div>

what he said, EXACTLY what he said. If someone was trying to rob me and I felt my life was in danger, you think they are going to get a warning shot, screw that 1 in the head and 2 in the chest. I do also feel for his family though, now they have to also pay for their sons stupidity with grief.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

There is more to the story.

The kid was wearing an electronic ankle bracelet, under the terms of his probation.
******
"The Kenhorst teen charged in a crime spree that ended with one accomplice dead and another wounded is a Gov. Mifflin 10th-grader who recently started skipping school and hanging out with the pair, Berks County juvenile authorities said Friday.

Michael A. Gonzalez, 16, and his friends were skipping school again Wednesday when they robbed two pedestrians in West Reading before attacking a 65-year-old city man riding a bicycle on the Thun Trail in Cumru Township, police said.

The bicyclist, whose name is being withheld by police, pulled a pistol and fired, killing Julius Johnson, 16, of Reading and wounding a 15-year-old in the neck, officials said.

The teen remains in Reading Hospital. His name has not been released because he hasn't been charged.

On Friday, Juvenile Court Master John LeVan ordered Gonzalez, of the 1200 block of Woodcrest Drive, to remain in the youth center in Bern Township on robbery and related charges.

LeVan denied a request by attorney Jay Kurtz to release Gonzalez to his parents, Kathryn and Jose Gonzalez.

Juvenile Probation Officer Christine Anderton said Gonzalez has no prior record and was on the high school wrestling team.

"During Christmas break he ran into Julius Johnson and started skipping school," Anderton said during the detention hearing.

Anderton said Gonzalez's parents thought he was going to school because he left in the morning and returned on the bus.

Officials also said Gonzalez had smoked marijuana but not in a month.

District Attorney John T. Adams said investigators were waiting to question the wounded teen.

According to authorities:

The three were playing video games at Johnson's residence in the 200 block of Gerry Street when juvenile probation officers went there Wednesday morning to check on Johnson after his mother reported that her son was not in school.

Johnson was on probation for aggravated assault. He was participating in a weekend program at the county youth center that has juvenile offenders go into the outdoors and perform community service.

The probation officers ordered Johnson to remain home on electronic monitoring and told the other two, who had no juvenile records, to leave.

The trio left immediately after the officers left and assaulted and robbed two men in West Reading before heading to the trail, where they assaulted the 65-year-old.

Adams ruled the shooting justified because the man could not flee and thought his life was in danger."

 

[charlestondiving]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Immorteq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The perp and momma shoulda educated themselves on the finer points of self defense as it relates to vulnerable adults. Momma is just another example of generations of Americans coddled by a system that will never impose/allow appropriate consequences for irresponsible behavior and this is where it leads. I feel bad for the old man and what he'll probably go thru after a trauma like that. </div></div>

+1 Well put

 

[KillShot]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Aww...bless the little SCUMBAGS heart!

His mother is quoted as saying "he didn't have to die".

You're right, he didn't have to die, but when you choose the path of a THUG, CRIMINAL, and prey on innocent people, you deserve to be shot down and taken out of this world.

It's too bad his friend wasn't blown into hell right along with him!

 

[Intrepid4576]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIG700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Say he gave a warning shot... that ended up killing or wounding an innocent. Now what?

IF YOU HAVE REASONABLE CAUSE to draw your weapon (I.E. you feel the situation clearly qualifies under Doctrine of Competing Harm)- Use it.

"Do not draw unless you're going to fire. Do not fire unless you're going to hit your attacker. Do not shoot to wound." - PA State Police officer when I was at the court house handing in my paperwork for my LTCF

The article did not state- However I would like to know if the kids were weilding a weapon. If so, good job to the "to be victim". If not... he'll see jail time and was unjustified. PA law and DOCH is very clear on this.

Doctorine of Competing Harm summed up- to qualify 3 criteria must be met

1). Ability. The person deemed to be a threat must possess the ability or power to kill or maim.

2). Opportunity. The person deemed to be a threat must be capable of immediately employing his power to kill or maim.

3). Jeopardy. This means that the person deemed to be a threat must be acting in such a manner that a reasonable and prudent person would conclude beyond doubt that his intent is to kill or cripple. </div></div>

18 Pa.C.S. § 505: Use of force in self-protection
(a) Use of force justifiable for protection of the person.--The use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.
(b) Limitations on justifying necessity for use of force.--
(1) The use of force is not justifiable under this section:
(i) to resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, although the arrest is unlawful; or
(ii) to resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:
(A) the actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest;
(B) the actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recaption justified by section 507 of this title (relating to use of force for the protection of property); or
(C) the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily injury.
(2) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat; nor is it justifiable if:
(i) the actor, with the intent of causing death or serious bodily injury, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or
(ii) the actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:
(A) the actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; and
(B) a public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.
(3) Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.
(c) Use of confinement as protective force.--The justification afforded by this section extends to the use of confinement as protective force only if the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the confinement as soon as he knows that he safely can, unless the person confined has been arrested on a charge of crime.


First ill admit im not as smart as i would like to be but - i dont see or understand any of that to say they need a weapon?

as far as i can tell he is / was justified in protecting himself - 3v1 and he was an older individual

please correct me if im wrong

 

[Intrepid4576]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aww...bless the little SCUMBAGS heart!

</div></div>

I loled

 

[perazzisc3]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

lol 2

 

[calling4life]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Under 2) II
They were under 18, he was on a bike, did they have weapons? Did they assault/batter the two victims from earlier?

They may get him on this, saying he could have retreated.
Or may go after him stating that had he just given them what they were after, everyone would have walked away unharmed.

Looks like there may be a case there, but the previous conviction of aggravated assault may be enough to squash it.

This shit hurts my head, the hoops a person has to jump through to protect his god given rights.

 

[bornhunter04]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: calling4life</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Under 2) II
They were under 18, he was on a bike, did they have weapons? Did they assault/batter the two victims from earlier?

They may get him on this, saying he could have retreated.
Or may go after him stating that had he just given them what they were after, everyone would have walked away unharmed.

Looks like there may be a case there, but the previous conviction of aggravated assault may be enough to squash it.

This shit hurts my head, the hoops a person has to jump through to protect his god given rights. </div></div>

If they were trying to rob him then they would have stopped his forward progress somehow, blocked the path, possibly even knocked him off of the bike in order to secure what earthly belongings he had. Hell they probably wanted the bike so they could pawn it.

Without knowing the particulars of the confrontation we don't know how justified he was.

But 3 against 1 is never good odds. God created man and samuel colt made them equal.

 

[c1steve]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=361731

"They first robbed an elderly man in West Reading shortly after 10 a.m., taking money from his pockets, then tried to rob another man in West Reading, kneeing him in the stomach and pushing him to the ground. Neither man was hurt.

The bike rider was on the trail between Reading and West Reading.

As he rode past the teens, the 15-year-old whose name was not released punched the man in the face, knocking him from his bike. Johnson ran and kicked the man, who was sitting against a chain-link fence along the trail.

As one of the teens ran toward the man, he shot Johnson and the 15-year-old.

People who found the man called 9-1-1 and waited for police to arrive. It was unclear if the people heard the shots or were on the trail.

The teens weren't armed, but the shootings were legal because the man was unable to escape, thought his life was in danger and had a permit to carry his gun, Adams said.

The man told investigators: "I was scared for my life. I was in big trouble. If I could have kept my bike on the trail, I would have gotten out of there."

The teens made their decision, and reaped the rewards of their choice. Perhaps some other thugs will learn this lesson before they continue down the same path. I have no sympathy for the perpetrators.

 

[devildogdad]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Sorry but there is a doctrine of 'disparity of power' Three young ,fit teenagers vs. a 65 year old man ....they do NOT need to be armed. they are more than capable of killing or severly hurting him.

GOOD SHOOT.....

 

[jasonZ]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

So how come he didn't give a warning of the robbery? Fair is fair I'd say. Excuse me sir, but you've been warned that I'm about to rob you and then give say a "reasonable" amount of time before you actually start the robbery? Would that be fair? I'm so tired of hearing people whine about the suspects rights and not a person gives a rats ass about the victims rights! Maybe I'm the minority in that argument, but sorry if you rob me and I feel the need to defend myself with deadly force....well there is not going to be a warning shot! Kudos to the man who defended himself, right or wrong, and well it sucks to find out that there is a one in three chance your robbery will fail with the loss of your life! I feel for the family and their loss, but it doesn't change anything in the fact that this "kid" is a habitual violent offender and found out the hard way that he was robbing the wrong person. The media, like they always do, will spin this into a negative against self defense and guns....because they are vultures and that's what they do. More people should defend themselves appropriately of course, and maybe the criminals would realize that they should find a new line of work as lead and/or pain doesn't agree with them!

 

[bassani]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

"Officer, I feared for my life. He was trying to kill me!"

words to remember

***Of course the family members of the dead criminal would say those things. I call it the "my shit don't stink" syndrome.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Looks like they robbed the wrong guy

Besides, someone just posted a story of a guy that fired a warning shot - AND GOT ARRESTED.