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Lost my accuracy

Hook Creek

Hook Creek

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 7, 2010
177
15
37
Catskill Mountains, NY
#1
My sps Tactical in .308 has for some reason lost its accuracy. I was thinking about what went wrong and it all started when my Uncle ran a bore snake through the barrel. Im not one of those guys who does nothing but clean the gun after everytime they shoot it, although I did a lot of cleaning when it was brand new. Now it has over 200 Rounds through it. I went to my uncles house fore a hunting trip, and took a shot at a target just to make sure my zero was good before the hunt and he said, "Better run a bore snake through that after that shot!" and I laughed thinking he was joking. Not 15 minutes later I caught him running the damn snake through it. Now not only did he prolly mess up my damn zero, but it almost makes you feel like time was wasted puting the rounds through that barrel to get it nice and seasoned. At the same time though it is around the same time I changed the brass and primers for my hand loads. I went from PMC brass to Lapua, and fed 210 primers to CCI BR2's. I used to shoot sub .5 MOA all day out of this rifle with my hand loads, and now Im having trouble with just under MOA. I have tried new load development, and even upgraded to a B&C A2 stock. Scope is working fine, and my warne base and leupold rings are solid. I dont see any scratches or marks on the crown. Anyone have problems like this?

for shits and giggles my perfect load was 42.0 gr of IMR 4064, case length of 2.008, COAL of 2.803, 168 gr SMK, fed primers, PMC brass.

BTW I love the feel of the B&C stock. Just wish I had some accuracy behind it lol.
 
#4
Re: Lost my accuracy

Clean the bore throughly, Re torque action and scope mount and ring screws. Check you RL set up. If accuracy does not come back, put another scope on to check. Have another shooter check as well. Did you rust the bore hunting? A bore snake is a very bad thing for a barrel as it is like using a bunch of filthy patches, but will not ruin one in one pass. JMO
 
#5
Re: Lost my accuracy

Sounds like you changed a lot of things at once. I would go back to the original load as this type of change is most likely the issue.

A while ago I switched brass and was getting horrible/ inconsistent accuracy. Not even thinking about the change I tried everything and finally nailed it down to the brass neck tension with the basic sizing dies I used. Once I had the proper neck tension all was good.
 
#7
Re: Lost my accuracy

Thanks for all the quick replys. I didnt think the bore snake was the issue, just that it was suspected because it wasnt untill after that and the change in brass and primers. Not that it couldnt be, but I didnt suspect the scope because it responds just fine and the groups arent weird, but just much bigger. I know alot of people would even love to get sub MOA, but its a far difference from consistent sub .5 MOA.
 
#9
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the new stock bedded? Did you use a torque wrench when installing it? If bedding and or torque is off it can make a great shooting action/barrel shoot like crap. </div></div>

Not to hi-jack... But I've heard this many times but have never experienced it myself. I routinely remove the actions from their stocks and even swap them sometimes and have never had my accuracy affected by doing it... and I NEVER use a torque wrench. Do you know how much one of those suckers costs??!!

I'm inclined to believe that if your action is so flimsey that the action screws can actually tweek it enough to affect accuracy, you should throw that action away and try a "real" action.

That said... I will say I make sure my barrel is floated whatever stock it's in.
 
#14
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm inclined to believe that if your action is so flimsey that the action screws can actually tweek it enough to affect accuracy, you should throw that action away and try a "real" action. </div></div>
I've seen plenty of very good rifles (Rem, Sako, Weatherby, etc...) with erratic "groups" that were instantly and magically fixed with a quick torque on the action screws. I attribute it to consistancy of placement similar to cheek weld or parallax issues not it "not" being a "real" action.
 
#15
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RicosRevenge</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm inclined to believe that if your action is so flimsey that the action screws can actually tweek it enough to affect accuracy, you should throw that action away and try a "real" action. </div></div>
I've seen plenty of very good rifles (Rem, Sako, Weatherby, etc...) with erratic "groups" that were instantly and magically fixed with a quick torque on the action screws. I attribute it to consistancy of placement similar to cheek weld or parallax issues not it "not" being a "real" action. </div></div>
I'm not quite following the analogy but I believe you. Like I said, I've heard it plenty. Just never experienced it. Guess I'm just lucky... but I still can't wrap my brain around action screw tension having anything to do with accuracy.
 
#17
Re: Lost my accuracy

I agree with the posting that it isn't the bore snake. You would have to really work at it to get one of those to screw up a barrel, and a few passes isn't going to do it. Maybe if you had a bore snake that was embedded with sand, and ran it back and forth over the crown, you would eventually ruin the barrel. But a couple of passes with a relatively clean bore snake isn't going to do much to the rifle if it is pulled reasonably straight out of the muzzle.

First, insure that the base, rings and scope are securely attached. Then make sure that the action is into the stock properly.

I also agree with the postings wherein the contention is that the change in your ammo is most likely the issue. Try a box of Federal 168 match. If the rifle still seems to shoot poorly. If possible, I would also try some Hornady, Remington match ammo..not hunting loads/bullets.
 
#19
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not quite following the analogy but I believe you. Like I said, I've heard it plenty. Just never experienced it. Guess I'm just lucky... but I still can't wrap my brain around action screw tension having anything to do with accuracy. </div></div>
(PS... not argumentative at all... this is just my observations) Pretty simple actually, if you don't have a consistent and repeatable cheek weld - you will have less tight groups than if you do. The other analogy is with parallax, if your parallax is off; the cross hairs will move and be in a little different spot than the last time you looked through the scope - in turn giving a different impact point.

If there is some slop in the action to the stocks mate, then it allows for things to change.

~ Rico

PS... I'm with you on the free floating thing though!
 
#20
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RicosRevenge</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not quite following the analogy but I believe you. Like I said, I've heard it plenty. Just never experienced it. Guess I'm just lucky... but I still can't wrap my brain around action screw tension having anything to do with accuracy. </div></div>
(PS... not argumentative at all... this is just my observations) Pretty simple actually, if you don't have a consistent and repeatable cheek weld - you will have less tight groups than if you do. The other analogy is with parallax, if your parallax is off; the cross hairs will move and be in a little different spot than the last time you looked through the scope - in turn giving a different impact point.

If there is some slop in the action to the stocks mate, then it allows for things to change.

~ Rico

PS... I'm with you on the free floating thing though!
</div></div>

OK... I'm with ya.
 
#21
Re: Lost my accuracy

The Snake didn't do anything but shake your confidence in the rifle.
My vote is "the loose nut behind the trigger".
Put everything back to its original (.5 moa) condition and shoot it again, build your confidence back then change things a piece at a time.
Happy shooting SScott
 
#22
Re: Lost my accuracy

i have the same rifle with a B&C LT A3 stock. had accurcy issues in the beganing with it also .Mine turned around when i started using the same cleaning procedure for the M24 . It's on the Remington Defense WEB site .Also your COAL put them at 2.810 and bump your powder up to 42.5 gr of IMR 4064. If you try what I suggest let me know how it goes.
 
#23
Re: Lost my accuracy

I think your accuracy problems started just after the word "Remington"
smile.gif


jk btw :p
 
#25
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Clean the bore throughly, Re torque action and scope mount and ring screws. Check you RL set up. If accuracy does not come back, put another scope on to check. Have another shooter check as well. Did you rust the bore hunting? A bore snake is a very bad thing for a barrel as it is like using a bunch of filthy patches, but will not ruin one in one pass. JMO </div></div>

You know you can wash a bore snake.
 
#28
Re: Lost my accuracy

I'm kind of new to precision rifles and I hadn't heard that bore snakes are bad for a barrel. I've been giving my Savage PC one pass with a snake and then a patch of oil after shooting. I'm used to religiously cleaning the hell out of my mosin-nagant's barrel after shooting Russian surplus ammo. Do you guys do anything after a shooting session? Light coat of oil?

After seeing what happened to my mosin after only a week of not cleaning it, I'm afraid to leave my Savage's bore fouled even with modern ammo.
 
#29
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PoniesWhee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm kind of new to precision rifles and I hadn't heard that bore snakes are bad for a barrel. I've been giving my Savage PC one pass with a snake and then a patch of oil after shooting. I'm used to religiously cleaning the hell out of my mosin-nagant's barrel after shooting Russian surplus ammo. Do you guys do anything after a shooting session? Light coat of oil?

After seeing what happened to my mosin after only a week of not cleaning it, I'm afraid to leave my Savage's bore fouled even with modern ammo. </div></div>

Most of that Russian ammo is corrosive.
 
#31
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PoniesWhee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you guys do anything after a shooting session? Light coat of oil?</div></div>

I might drag a snake through.

Your "light coat of oil" will play hell with your cold bore shot. Leave the barrel alone. If you are shooting it often it's not going to rust up on you overnight.
 
#32
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the new stock bedded? Did you use a torque wrench when installing it? If bedding and or torque is off it can make a great shooting action/barrel shoot like crap. </div></div>

Not to hi-jack... But I've heard this many times but have never experienced it myself. I routinely remove the actions from their stocks and even swap them sometimes and have never had my accuracy affected by doing it... and I NEVER use a torque wrench. Do you know how much one of those suckers costs??!!

I'm inclined to believe that if your action is so flimsey that the action screws can actually tweek it enough to affect accuracy, you should throw that action away and try a "real" action.

That said... I will say I make sure my barrel is floated whatever stock it's in. </div></div>
At work we have placed dial indicators on very large (i.e. 4" thick) solid steel cylinders and seen slight hand pressure temporarily bow the cylinder over .015" this hand pressure is nothing compared to the amount of force that an action screw is putting into the bottom of the action. If you give me the best, biggest, baddest action you can find I can mount it into a stock, stock mounted into vice, and if the screws are pulling the action on a high point in the stock (think see-saw) you will see the action bend while under pressure.
I would suspect that the primer and brass change is your accuracy issue. It very well could be the stock I would check to be sure that the action screws are not bottoming out in the reciever causing you to think it was being pulled tight to the stock.
 
#33
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Togeneral99</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the new stock bedded? Did you use a torque wrench when installing it? If bedding and or torque is off it can make a great shooting action/barrel shoot like crap. </div></div>

Not to hi-jack... But I've heard this many times but have never experienced it myself. I routinely remove the actions from their stocks and even swap them sometimes and have never had my accuracy affected by doing it... and I NEVER use a torque wrench. Do you know how much one of those suckers costs??!!

I'm inclined to believe that if your action is so flimsey that the action screws can actually tweek it enough to affect accuracy, you should throw that action away and try a "real" action.

That said... I will say I make sure my barrel is floated whatever stock it's in. </div></div>
At work we have placed dial indicators on very large (i.e. 4" thick) solid steel cylinders and seen slight hand pressure temporarily bow the cylinder over .015" this hand pressure is nothing compared to the amount of force that an action screw is putting into the bottom of the action. If you give me the best, biggest, baddest action you can find I can mount it into a stock, stock mounted into vice, and if the screws are pulling the action on a high point in the stock (think see-saw) you will see the action bend while under pressure.
I would suspect that the primer and brass change is your accuracy issue. It very well could be the stock I would check to be sure that the action screws are not bottoming out in the reciever causing you to think it was being pulled tight to the stock. </div></div>
I see what you're saying about a "high spot" but I still don't see how that will affect accuracy... But you can't bottom out the action screws on any Remington action I've seen. The front screw will come right through and hit your bolt in the lug area. I guess you could call that "bottoming out" if the bolt is in the action but you can't open it with a screw tightened up against it. The rear one will come right through the tang behind the bolt and hit the bolt if you try to open or close the action.
 
#34
Re: Lost my accuracy

Well, while I don't use bore snakes, I also doubt they are the problem.

An Uncle who does things to my rifle behind my back after I've already voiced my opposition would be my first suspect. Not intentionally, but I wouldn't be so sure the bore snaking was all he did.

The load considerations make sense, but I'd also check the crown for any new 'oddness'.

Greg
 
#35
Re: Lost my accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dazza</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You know you can wash a bore snake. </div></div>

You know you CANNOT get the abrasives out by washing them?
I wouldn't put a abrasive rope through my barrel.
Bore snakes are great for field kits.

OP, your issue is not a once off cleaning with one unless your crown is damaged.
 
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