• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

  • Site updates coming next Wednesday at 8am CT!

    The site will be down for routine maintenance on Wednesday 6/5 starting at 8am CT. If you have any questions, please PM alexj-12!

M14 closes on a 308 no go gauge- sell it or keep it?

Tomspanks

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 12, 2013
37
1
55
Im no pro- though I have read a bit about these rifles. bolt closes on a 308 no go gauge and the only rounds I have to reload for her are 308, no access to 7.62 brass like you guys in the states have. *Canada*. So what do I do- sell it and move on or what?

I prolly shouldnt reload 308 for it and feed it that, right?


opinions welcome!

EDIT- These are chinese m14s in Canada sold as having 7.62 loose chambers. I wouldnt sell it if the gun was unsafe I would actually be able to return it to my dealer if it was so. I am asking if theres anything I can do vis a vis reloading to safely use my 308 cases in this chamber which is more in spec with 7.62(read loose)
 
Last edited:
I would never sell an unsafe firearm to a person. Get if it fixed, or sell it to a gunsmith and TELL HIM what the issues with it are. Putting unsafe firearms into the populace is never a good idea.
 
The bulk of rack M14's and good clone M1A's will close on a no go .308win head space gage and the weapon is still safe. Only if it went 100% into battery on a .308 field gage, would I look at it very hard or start to get concerned.
The chamber an head space spec for M14's is a M/G chamber, not a bolt or civi semi .308win chamber. It is designed to eat dirt, and run 100% of the time. If you are still worried spend the money an buy a set of 7.62X51 NATO chamber and head space tool sets.
 
Easiest fix would be to try a new bolt...hardest would be to rebarrel. Not much you can do with handlaods to fix it
 
The bulk of rack M14's and good clone M1A's will close on a no go .308win head space gage and the weapon is still safe. Only if it went 100% into battery on a .308 field gage, would I look at it very hard or start to get concerned.
The chamber an head space spec for M14's is a M/G chamber, not a bolt or civi semi .308win chamber. It is designed to eat dirt, and run 100% of the time. If you are still worried spend the money an buy a set of 7.62X51 NATO chamber and head space tool sets.

This. Try a field gauge if you have one. Or, take the no-go gauge and put layers of cellophane tape on the end (head) of it until it matches the field length (use calipers and good measuring technique) to make a field-gauge (for 308 or 7.62) and try again. For example, you'll need to add 0.0115" to a 308 NO-GO gauge to make a 7.62 FIELD Gauge.

Also there are differences between go/no-go/field headspaces for 308 vs 7.62 chambers.

308 Win. | 7.62 NATO
-------------------------------------
GO - 1.6300" | GO - 1.6350"
NOGO - 1.6340" | NOGO - 1.6405"
FIELD - 1.6380" | FIELD - 1.6455"
 
GO is safe.

NO-GO is at the limit of sloppy/safe tolerances and dimensions (there are separate SAAMI .308 and MIL 7.62mm gages). The bolt may or may not close on a NO-GO.

If the bolt closes on a FIELD gage it is unsafe to fire, period.

Polytech and Norinco receivers were known to stretch. Not sure about the bolts, although I've read conflicting reports. There were a few US gunsmiths who would replace bolts and re-temper receivers -- you might go to a dedicated M14 forum and canvas their archives to find out who.
 
Im no pro- though I have read a bit about these rifles. bolt closes on a 308 no go gauge and the only rounds I have to reload for her are 308, no access to 7.62 brass like you guys in the states have. *Canada*. So what do I do- sell it and move on or what?

I prolly shouldnt reload 308 for it and feed it that, right?


opinions welcome!

EDIT- These are chinese m14s in Canada sold as having 7.62 loose chambers. I wouldnt sell it if the gun was unsafe I would actually be able to return it to my dealer if it was so. I am asking if theres anything I can do vis a vis reloading to safely use my 308 cases in this chamber which is more in spec with 7.62(read loose)

You have a nato chamber it is roomier than a conventional 308 one you need to get a nato 7.62 'field' gauge. Also afaik the receivers don't stretch but the bolts on early (1980s/90s) chinese m14s weren't hardened properly and some have grown over time necessitating replacement with USGI. Your bolt should be fine though.
 
Closing on a "no go" doesn't make it a bad rifle. Every AI barrel I have checked has closed on a standard no-go. And they shoot incredibly tight.

Check it with a field gauge.
 
From another site:

WarDawg [Member]
6/26/2009 5:50:03 PM MDT
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Yeah, the generous lug clearance coupled with the weak barrel threading at 52,000 psi is what causes the "receiver stretching" that leads to excessive headspace over time in these rifles.

What is actually happening is the narrow lugs are battering back against the too soft receiver and the barrel is shifting forward in the too soft receiver threading.

The receivers are not actually stretching as so many have implied, components are just rearranging themselves to the fore and aft.

All this can be corrected with proper receiver rehardening, replacing the Chinese bolt with a fitted USGI bolt assembly and redimensioning and realigning the original barrel and crush fitting it into place in the rehardened receiver.

I am not GUNSMITH or pretend to be one. But I own M14 of many makes. My Norinco was a little low on the Rockwell scale and I also removed the barrel myself from the receiver .It was barely snug. I guess what I'm saying is Milo5 definition sounds pretty darn accurate. The Receiver's really are a gem in the rough even if yours has minor issues. I will gladly tell people my issues I had with my Heel stamped Norinco. But I will also tell them It is a very nice rifle now that the issues have been addressed. SEI took care of them for me. I found the issues myself. Called SEI. Talked to Ron. Sent the rifle in for them to look at. They called back and confirmed the issues and we came to a price to get it correct. My rifle is a very nice keeper now. I feel 100% safe in shooting it. WarDawg

Extract from Lee Emerson's M14 History and Development:

Keng's Firearms Specialty, Incorporated

Keng's Firearms Specialty, Inc. (now in Atlanta, GA) was established in 1985. The company has imported firearms and firearm accessories for commercial sale in the United States. Specifically, Keng’s Firearms Specialty imported Poly Technologies M14type rifles in 1988 and 1989.

Keng’s Firearms was the only company that imported Chinese M14 type rifles (Poly Technologies M14/S models) into the United States before the March 14, 1989 ban on importing military-lookalike semi-automatic rifles. This event is commonly referred to as the “1989 import ban.” The Chinese M14 (Poly Technologies M14/S) rifles first appeared in the United States as part of the Keng’s Firearms Specialty exhibit at the January 1988 SHOT Show.

The first print advertisement for the Poly Technologies M14/S appeared in the July 1988 issue of Guns & Ammo. Poly Technologies M14/S serial number 0043X with a hinged butt plate and bayonet lug was imported by Keng’s Firearms before March 14, 1989.

Tim LaFrance noted that he had a concern with the Chinese bolts after examining the Poly Technologies rifles at the 1988 SHOT Show. He suggested to Keng’s Firearms Specialty that these rifles be evaluated because of his concern with the bolts. Consequently, Poly Technologies representatives from the People’s Republic of China contacted Smith Enterprise, Inc. shortly thereafter to discuss the manufacturing of M14 rifles.

Representatives from Poly Technologies met for five days with Smith Enterprise personnel, with David Keng of Keng’s Firearms Specialty acting as translator. The Poly Technologies representatives were supplied with a set of USGI drawings for the M14 and five stripped semi-automatic Smith Enterprise, Inc. M-14 receivers. After this first meeting, Poly Technologies sent raw forgings and assembled M14 rifles (Poly Technologies serial numbers 000001 through 000005) to Smith Enterprise, Inc. for evaluation and testing.

Ron Smith personally test fired these first five Poly Technologies M14 type rifles. Smith Enterprise thoroughly examined and tested the Poly Technologies receivers and rifles. Chinese receivers tested after these first batch of five were found through spectrum analysis to be made of the Chinese equivalent of AISI 8620 alloy steel, the proper material for M14 receivers. The first Poly Technologies M14 rifles imported into the United States had a varying number of digits, three to six, in the serial number of each rifle. Very quickly though, no later than serial number 00061, there would only be five digits making up the serial number on each Poly Technologies M14 rifle imported into the United States. Receiver heels were marked using Kuhlmann GmbH pantographs.

Karl Maunz was living in Atlanta, GA when Keng’s Firearms Specialty imported Poly Technologies M14/S rifles. Keng’s Firearms Specialty supplied him with two Poly Technologies M14/S rifles for testing and evaluation. He found the receiver to be made of equivalent AISI 8620 alloy steel. The receiver material testing conducted by Smith Enterprise and Karl Maunz was done independently of each other. The Chinese bolts, however, were not made of the USGI drawing specified alloy steel.

The Smith Enterprise testing included hardness testing of the Poly Technologies receiver core by cutting it apart. One Poly Technologies receiver was tested to destruction by loading ammunition to create excessively high chamber pressure. The reader MUST NOT exceed powder charges as listed in reputable reloading manuals if hand loaded ammunition is used. Personal injury or death may occur if done so.

The very first Poly Technologies receivers were very hard, harder than a file, which left them without the toughness provided by the relatively soft core of receivers made according to USGI specifications. The Chinese arsenal quickly corrected this by strictly adhering to the receiver heat treatment procedure. After Smith Enterprise completed the evaluation, a second meeting of the parties involved was held.

Even after this second meeting, Poly Technologies did not correct all the concerns of Smith Enterprise and Keng’s Firearms Specialty had regarding the Chinese bolt. Specifically, 1) the bolt locking lugs were too narrow and 2) the carburizing and hardness remained unsatisfactory because State Arsenal 356 did not change the material to equivalent AISI 8620 steel but continued to use steel equivalent to AISI 4135. This was in spite of the fact that Keng’s Firearms Specialty offered to supply USGI M14 bolts until Poly Technologies could manufacture its own bolts according to USGI specifications. Poly Technologies refused this offer from Keng’s Firearms Specialty. The Chinese never changed the bolt material for M14 type rifles exported to the United States.

Century Arms International

Century Arms International has imported and exported firearms and accessories for more than forty years. Century Arms International was located at 5 Federal Street St. Albans, VT 05478 in the mid-to-late 1980s. By 1990, the company’s address was listed as 48 Lower Newton Street St. Albans, VT 05478. The firm moved its headquarters to Boca Raton, FL in 1997 and then again to Delray Beach, FL in 2004. Phyllis Sucher cofounded Century Arms International Inc. in St. Albans, VT in 1961.

In August 1984, the company was sold to new owners but she remained on board as one of the company directors until at least April 2004. Regrettably, she passed away on May 14, 2007.

Century Arms International imported Chinese M14 rifles from 1990 until at least late 1993. It imported both completed Poly Technologies rifles and Norinco M14 type rifles and receivers before May 26, 1994. Chinese M14 rifles imported by Century Arms International after March 14, 1989 and before November 30, 1990 were assembled with military style features, i.e., hinged butt plate and flash suppressor with bayonet lug, after arrival in the United States.

Norinco rifles imported by Century Arms International had the least aesthetic appeal of all the Chinese M14 type rifles imported into the United States. Typically, the chu wood stocks are serviceable but not pleasing to the eye. The Poly Technologies rifles had better looking chu wood stocks and finish.

Poly Technologies M14S and some Norinco M14 Sporter rifles imported by Century Arms International have serial numbers with a letter C prefix followed by a hyphen and four digits or it is denoted as the letter C immediately followed by five digits. Location of the serial number on the receiver varies too. Some of the serial numbers were stamped with roll dies while others were applied by electropencil. Century Arms imported the Poly Technologies rifles before the Norinco marked models.

From November 29, 1990 until importation ceased in May 1994, Century Arms International renamed the Norinco rifle, M14 Sporter or M14 S/A Sporter in some instances. Century Arms International established a facility in Montreal, Quebec by no later than 1988. The firm modified the imported Chinese M14 type rifles at this facility to comply with the March 14, 1989 import “assault rifle” and November 29, 1990 “assault rifle” parts ban in the United States. Century Arms International removed the military style features previously allowed from each rifle by cutting the flash suppressor just forward of the front sight, replacing the hinged butt plate with a rubber recoil pad and not
supplying a magazine.

A few Norinco M14 Sporter rifles without serial numbers were imported by Century Arms International about 1991 or 1992. When the BATF began to investigate this oversight, it was ordered by the U. S. Department of State to not pursue the matter.
 
Last edited:
After some reading I think Im gonna get an RCBS case mic.

Mic the cases I fire (with the gas system off) to see what theyre expanding to. Then set my die to .002 smaller than that mic'ced measurement
 
Im no pro- though I have read a bit about these rifles. bolt closes on a 308 no go gauge and the only rounds I have to reload for her are 308, no access to 7.62 brass like you guys in the states have. *Canada*. So what do I do- sell it and move on or what?

I prolly shouldnt reload 308 for it and feed it that, right?


opinions welcome!

EDIT- These are chinese m14s in Canada sold as having 7.62 loose chambers. I wouldnt sell it if the gun was unsafe I would actually be able to return it to my dealer if it was so. I am asking if theres anything I can do vis a vis reloading to safely use my 308 cases in this chamber which is more in spec with 7.62(read loose)


It's best to take the rifle and shoot some 7.62x51 ammo in it. Then measure the fired cases to get an idea of what the chamber really is. Then you can decide. There is a small amount of play involved in semi-auto rifles like the M1A and you can set the sizing dies properly once you know the actual dimensions of the chamber.
 
After some reading I think Im gonna get an RCBS case mic.

Mic the cases I fire (with the gas system off) to see what theyre expanding to. Then set my die to .002 smaller than that mic'ced measurement

Try the Hornaday or the Forster. Both seem to measure off the datum which is more accurate. Haven't tried the Forster yet (it's coming).
 
Is your M14 7.62mm?

If so, it WILL close on a .308 no go.

It will not however, close on a .762 no go.

They are different.
 
It's suppose to close on a 1.634" Gauge (SAAMI No-Go), heck it can even close on a 1.638" and still be safe. 1.638" is both a SAAMI Field Gauge and a NATO No-Go Gauge.

Now if it closes on a 1.6455" (M14 Field Gauge), then I would be worried.