M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

kraigWY

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I've seen several articles about the difference between the M16 and M16a1.

I'm asking about the flash hider on the two. From what I read, the M16 had the prong flash hider and no forward assist.

The M16a1 had the forward assist and the bird cage flash hider.

I went to Vietnam in 1967. I was issued a M16a1 w/forwards assist and it had a prong flash hider. I remember quite well, we used the prong flash hider to cut the wire off C-Raton cases.

When I got into the guard in '73, our M16a1s had the bird cage flash hiders.

I know my mind isnt that far gone but every thing I read tells me I'm full of crap about the 'A1s having the three prong flash hider.
 

loper

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

Kraig,

Given your bona fides I hate to disagree with you, but...

The forward assist and birdcage flash hider are what makes an A1.

The forward assist was a fix for the jamming problems the M16 had (yeah, I know about the ball powder and no cleaning kits debacle), and the birdcage flash hider was a fix for the prong flash hiders breaking, due to G.I.'s using them to break wire off C-rat cases.

Here's a thought: Maybe the weapon you were issued had been repaired, maybe the armorer just swapped a M16 upper onto an A1 lower. All the markings are on the lower, so it would have been stamped M16A1.

That's my best guess how it could have been as you remember it.
 

kraigWY

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

I just called my brother, who served a tour with the 173rd and 1 Cav. He agrees, his rifles had both the forward assist prong flash hiders.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 

loper

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

Kraig,
I didn't read the question carefully, and I missed forward assist w/ prong flash hider.
Did a little research, and the XM16E1 had a forward assist, and the prong flash hider.
This was later finalized as the M16A1 after the addition of the bird cage flash hider.
 

shoepop

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

In those day you could have been issued any configuration mix and match was common. A true A1 had bird cage hider.
The 3 prong was really shit canned because it was an open design and hung up in the bush a pain always, but could also get your ass shot because your muzzle was tangled in veg. The bird cage first design was slotted full 360 but this caused a dust signature when prone so on the second go they closed bottom slot's, this type hider is still used today. Other changes were chrome lined chamber, barrel and a 'fence' around the mag release to protect it from a bump drop that left you with a single shot.
 

Turk

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

They came in all kinds of configurations; the closed bottom birdcage FH didn't appear till the A2's. Lots of mixing and matching during the transition of M16's to M16A1's.
 

ArcticLight

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

In basic training I had an M16 or an M16A1 - it was Vietnam era from what we were told (my BT was in 1983)...I still have the s/n to it..!! (and the issue card!)

Mine had the 3 prong flash and a forward assist.

I kept that MF clean, carb cleaner, qtip, 4hr clean CLEAN....

Shot very well, never jammed either..
 

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

There was a lot of mix and match going on with parts, uppers, lowers, and flash suppressors. I had a Armalite Ar-15 overstamped with XM16E2 on the lower, with a birdcage FS and a forward assist in 79. Mix and match of lowers, barrels, Fs, and some other parts was common as M16A1 barrels would occassionally need replacemet due to getting bent, finish wearing off or getting scrubbed off, whatever, and the FS may or may not have been replaced at that time, and just reinstalled. The replacement barrels from parts were delivered with a front sight assembly sans pin, spring, plunger or FS. All barrels were replaced on all rifles when the chrome bore became standard, because it was something really needed. The later production M16A1's were delivered with a birdcage. The birdcage became standard replacement parts when ordered from inventory and in the armorer's parts boxes. The big change with the A1 was the forward assist, so none of those M16/AR15 Uppers stayed in service, but everything attached to it, like the sight, barrel, dust cover, whatever could be and was mounted on the new replacement upper when the big change to the forward assist was made complete standard.
3 prong FS were around on some rifles right until When totally new rifles were issued with the A2, at least in the Marines, in like 84 as I remember. There were so many differences in parts from tip to ass between the A1 and the A2, and the various A1's were so worn in service, that total replacement of the weapons was the only way to go. Not much interchangability at all.
The difference between the birdcage and the FS/compensator wasn't because the birdcage kicked dust, but because the latter helped a little with controlability.
As I recall the M16 had a 3 prong and no FA and no Chrome bore.
The XM16E2 had a forward assist and was a M16 that was overstamped.
The M16A1 was with delivered a Chrome Bore, Forward Assist, and birdcage.
The replacement of the barrels with Chrome lined did not get a designation change.
 

Foul Mike

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

I was in RVN in 69 in the 1st. Cav.
In my squad we all had A-1 s and would go to the armourer and have him put a prong on one so we could open C rat cases in the bush.
If someone changed squads or rotated that had the prong we would be sure to go see the Bn. armourer and get one put on someones rifle.
The last 3 months I was there it was on my rifle and I don't remember having all that much problem with it getting tangled up, may have had something to do with how I carried it.
I too was really on with keeping it clean and had no failures with her except to burn the upper up during a ground attack on a big LZ one night. It took a lot of mags going through as fast as I could do it and it kind of welded the bolt to the breach.
I used a different one that the owner no longer needed and did have to jack around with it some but it kept going. When the morning came I could tell at a quick glance that he was nowhere near as picky as I was about taking care of his rifle.
I took mine back to the armourer later that day and he put on a new upper and changed the birdcage to the prong.
Her number was 866323, never did have a card, just "Sign here'"
Regards FM
 

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

To show how long the parts and lowers stayed in use, my Boot rifle at parris island in 79 was #586429. That was the Armalite with the overstamp.
 

ArcticLight

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

July 83 - s/n 3 mil +
btm16.jpg
 

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

As I recall, when the change to the A2 happened, the Marines replaced all the rifles totally pretty quick, but I think I remember the Army, Army Reserves, and NG only changed the uppers in the beginning, and retained the lowers for quite a while longer. I guess they had so many rifles that it was the only way they could do it.
I got out in 88 and never saw a M4 in the Army or the Marines, ever, and I was a Bragg, Benning, and Schofield quite a bit.
The Air Force did have some for their security people, but they had that long Flash Suppressor indicative of Vietnam era CAR-15's. Saw them at Eglin and Warner-Robbins.
 

shoepop

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">July 83 - s/n 3 mil +
btm16.jpg
</div></div>

Trust you stepped up a few notches from E1
wink.gif
. I see where you got your gun fever, your dad buys, sells and trades faster than I can get them in and out of bound book.
 

kraigWY

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but I think I remember the Army, Army Reserves, and NG only changed the uppers in the beginning, and retained the lowers for quite a while longer.</div></div>

I was in the NG (Alaska AR NG) running the marksmanship unit at the time of the switch over (mid 80s), we got the complete rifle.
 

IronSights2011

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

Ahem, sorry to throw a monkey wrench into the discussions, but I've heard of hybrids as the models were changed. M16's and M16A1's that have features they shouldn't . . . but they do.
 

Foul Mike

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

I wish I could go to some FT. or other military post and hold 866323 again just to feel it and know it was still serving some soldier as well as it did me.
Upon the morning that I burned her up and grabbed another I was aghast at the rust and other signs of poor maintenance that I saw in the morning light. It did not work as well as my rifle but did carry me through the night.
When I grabbed it it had a double feed going on and once I cleared that it worked OK the rest of the night but I was sure glad it had the forward bolt assist as I needed that.
I do remember giving it a squirt of LSA and hoping for the best.
Is there some way to find out if your old rifle still exists?
Regards, FM
 

ArcticLight

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">July 83 - s/n 3 mil +
btm16.jpg
</div></div>

Trust you stepped up a few notches from E1
wink.gif
. I see where you got your gun fever, your dad buys, sells and trades faster than I can get them in and out of bound book. </div></div>
Heck I stillk have an Ivor Johnson I got when I was 18...

But yeah that's completely different than me though, I have HIS childhood 22, MY childhood 22 and every rifle I've ever bought I still have....with one or two exceptions (and I WANT IT BACK TOO! - My R/W/B winchester target rifle)...

I've sold a few handguns over the years, like 3 or 4...LOL
 

ArcticLight

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but I think I remember the Army, Army Reserves, and NG only changed the uppers in the beginning, and retained the lowers for quite a while longer.</div></div>

I was in the NG (Alaska AR NG) running the marksmanship unit at the time of the switch over (mid 80s), we got the complete rifle. </div></div>

We got the A2's in 1986 or 1987 in Alaska - bout the same time!
smile.gif
and HUMMV's a year later...
 

para1505

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

I started basic 2/87 at BENNING. We had A1's. I thought mine perfromed very well. It had the full bird cage. Then when I got to the 82nd, I gota A2, Kevlar helmet. They had HUMVEES and Gama goats were on the way out. Also M249's and Beretta's 9mm. When I got to my platoon I remember they were taking the 45's and grease guns down to the armory for the last time.
 

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: para1505</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> When I got to my platoon I remember they were taking the 45's and grease guns down to the armory for the last time. </div></div>
I think we got the Beretta's around the end of 85, because I went to the range the first couple weeks of january to qualify rifle and pistol so i could work as a coach for the Bn when the compaies went later.
but Grease Guns? The 82nd still had them? Except for maybe, maybe the Sheridan crews, on which it was standard equipment and had clips inside to attach them inside the vehicles, I thought Grease Guns were long gone, like by 65.
 

ArcticLight

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

I shot 45's up until 1989 in combat handgun competition, both at Ft Wainwright and at Ft Richardson.

However we did get the Beretta's in 1987, tried those in competition and they just sucked, nowhere near as accurate as my personal 92m or the 1911's...


87 was when we got the M24's in too.
 

cav has been

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

I was issued an M16 in '68, forward assist, open slotted flash hider, complete with bad habits. Rifle was seldom known to unload eighteen rounds without malfunction. A fortituous accident caused the barrel to become bent which entailed replacement. This likely helped me to reach this advanced age. As I recall the bird cage hider came with the " C " stamped barrel which I believe designated chrome.
The real upside was I developed a love for the pig. Now that is a weapon to count on! JMNHO
 

para1505

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

The pig eas a real bad ass. They made me assistant when I first got there then gunner. I remember jumping with it. you lowered it after your ruck sack. You rigged it to slide down your lowering line. It gave me such a hard on to shoot it. i remember one day we took all 6 guns in the compant to the range (2 per platoon). We had 20,000 rounds to blow. I remember shooting targets on the bi pod legs at 800 meters. shooting from the hip was the funnest.
 

kraigWY

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

I use to cheat. Part of my job was training rifle, pistol and machine gun teams for the Wilson matches (National Guard Championships.

Machine gun barrels have a crown designed to give you a "football" shapped pattern for dispersing fire.

I found if you took the flash hider off, cut 1/4 inch off the muzzle, recrown it, put the flash hider back on. It would shoot like a rifle. Plus you can tighten it up quite a bit by tightening up the rivits. If you have access to enough barrels you could pick and choose finding one with tighter head space.

Worked pretty good.
 

cav has been

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

I cheated also but in a different way, Stone the surfaces where the bolt ran on the frame, drill the gas port, hone the gas cylinder,spot weld the end on the spring guide, wind another short section on the operating spring, shim up the old mechanical buffer, polish the feed pawls, double spring the rail in the cover. A squeaky clean pig with a very liberal dosing of LSA-T was a happy pig. When all that lube got hot and started flying around it certainly covered everything close by. Forty odd years later and a pass by a mirror still finds scars from HOT 7.62 brass.
 

hankpac

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

I got to the 101stairport in the Feb 68. Issued the M16 wih the prongs. Even cleaning it daily,it jammed a lot. I gave it up for two 45s, and never shot another round for two months. Went Tigers, and got the birdcage model. No jams. Lots of shooting then. I really can't remember if the first one had the FA.
 

Foul Mike

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

pimpgun, You obviously had access to assets that I didn't.
Anything to make a pig work better would have been alright with us.
For us it was take it over to Mc.'s conex and hope for the best.
Who knew if the conex was there or not or where Mac would be, he may have been slinged out earlier. Shit was moving fast a lot of times.
He was an excellent armorer and did the best he could with what he had, but that best he had was limited. I wish he had had a nice shop and all of the tooling needed, I bet he would have made us some smokin guns.
He is now dead, but I will always remember him as someone who did the best he could with what he had.
RIP McVicker, you were good to all of us.
Garry Owens, FM
 

cav has been

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

FM, assets were available, just not through channels. The welding was compliments of the Head & Head motorpool, a pair of Ho's racing slicks,a belt or helmet or bit of kit was a good trade for a lot of work. The stone from a survival knife served well on the bolt. A drill and bit could be bummed from a number of places. Everything else was just time and a bit of head scratching. If you had a real life armorer you were indeed fortunate. Ours was none to talented but I could use his tools and pilfer his parts, That was a two way street cause I helped him with other peoples stuff.
FM, I don't suppose you remember the words to " O Gary Owen was A faggot Sargent Jack" ? I only remember bits here and there. I'll just claim it was the Baumi Bau that made me forget. Seems "33" was involved every time I heard that sung.


 

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

If I found out or our bn armorers and staff found out, that somebody was cutting the barrels, drilling the ports, and playing with the buffers and springs of my M60' like you guys were talking about I and they would have done everything possible to see you in Levenworth.
The gun was fine as long as everything was withing spec and excess LSA wasn't in the reciever, on the tray,and the chamber was dry. There was no special cut to the crown to make the beaten zone football shaped. All beaten zones are football shaped.
If the belt didn't get twisted it fed fine. If you slopped it up with too much lube it might double feed, runaway, or even stovepipe, and if you got lube in the chamber you could get a ruptured cartridge. Too much lube could also result in a case falling down into the reciever, and you had to open the feedcover and roll over and turn the gun upside down and shake it out to clear. That way you stayed low and under the angry bees while clearing the stoppage. Gun grease was better on the feedtray groove and rails anyway. LSA could cook off too fast under high rates of fire for several minutes.
Just checking the barrels with a drop gauge was enough, and inspecting the bolt face and lugs for damage and wear, was about all it took to keep it reliable and very accurate.
I did have a rivet come off on the reciever, once, but there were enough others it didn't affect it and the rail stayed tight.
Pulling it tight into the shoulder on the bipod, and pushing it to the right to take the slop out of the T&E before adjusting the traversing knob kept it tight on targets.
 

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: para1505</div><div class="ubbcode-body">got to the 82nd, I gota A2, Kevlar helmet. They had HUMVEES and Gama goats were on the way out. </div></div>
I remember the Gama Goats being so loud our driver (we had one in the Bn) wearing earplugs and headphones because of the whine from the turbo. You could hear that thing for miles. It was not a surreptitious vehicle.
 

kraigWY

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I found out or our bn armorers and staff found out, that somebody was cutting the barrels, drilling the ports, and playing with the buffers and springs of my M60' like you guys were talking about I and they would have done everything possible to see you in Levenworth</div></div>

Wouldn't have worked in my case. These were NG guns belonging to the marksmanship unit. We had different rules and regs. in both weapons and ammo. There was nothing illegal about modifiying match weapons, rifles, pistols or machineguns. It was up to the OIC of the Marksmanship Unit (me) and/or the propertybook officer (me).

These weren't TO&E weapons.
 

cav has been

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

Any Bn. armorers were way smarter then to get within miles of where that old sixty was employed. LSA-T was the lube of choice on the mini's. It also worked quite well on hard running sixtys. The only malfunction you listed which I have vivid memories of is the runaway. I can assure you the number of rounds downrange in the preceding minutes had a lot more to do with it than the quantity of gun grease employed. If I recall correctly the fear of Leavenworth was greatly diminished by that point in my life. I have heard REMF's feared it greatly though.
 

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

Messing with the buffer and spring could easily have resulted in a short recoil and failure to eject or feed, or the sear not catching and a runaway. It would be a fine line I wouldn't want to get near. Of course, my M60s were deployed in the FMF with us and we actually had to use what we had when we needed them, so working as they were intended to was fine with me. I wasn't willing to risk my life or the mission by getting creative.
Our drop fire 60mm mortars were made during WW II, and the trigger fire ones made during Korea, according to the data plates. We got the new 60's and 81's in late 83 or early 84. Our 105's were all made 1n 1944, but I am sure had been rebuilt and rebarreled many times since then, since they were deployed out too. I suspect only the carriage was origional.
The M60E3 was a mistake. Too light overall for the recoil and the barrel too thin.
 

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

M16's were in the USMC supply through the 80's. My very first M16...DI..A1 was not an M16A1. It was an M16 as it had no forward assist, and a prong flash hider. After the very next Battalion graduated, we turned those in for bonified A1's. Around '84 or so, 2AIRBDE24MAG was instructed to turn in all M16A1's for M16A2's. At this timne, all Model 1911's were supposed to be turned in, but we were told by our lower command that we were not turning our .45's for 'those God damned 9mm's!' That lasted until '85 then we had to turn them in when we received a new Commander, and one SGM 'Orange Slices' Taylor who happened to disagree with teh CO on the .45/9mm fight, but the CO was not quite filled with the right amount of backbone(according to Orange Slices) so all older issue weapons were turned in for brand new.

Having fired all variants from the first birdcage rifle to teh most modern M4, I must say that the A2 was the most accurate with M855, and the M4 was better to carry and use. The only other rifle that was better was a SAGE stocked DMR M14 but good luck getting one when you have a CO that thinks anything with a scope is a 'sniper rifle'...man, that POG was a serious asshat. Making him eat those words was teh best thing I ever witnessed in some 26 years of service..outside a foreign bar that is!
Semper Fi!
 

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Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Making him eat those words was teh best thing I ever witnessed in some 26 years of service..outside a foreign bar that is!
Semper Fi! </div></div>
Would that be a Olongapo bar, or a Subic City bar? Or even Pattaya bar?
You MAG 24 guys were pricks. You wouldn't let us eat at your Chow Hall.
 

Sean the Nailer

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    Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Making him eat those words was teh best thing I ever witnessed in some 26 years of service..outside a foreign bar that is!
    Semper Fi! </div></div>
    Would that be a Olongapo bar, or a Subic City bar? Or even Pattaya bar?</div></div> Yeah, that's a story I'm sure would be worth listening to.

    Well, we're waiting.
    wink.gif
     

    Don't try to run

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    Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M16's were in the USMC supply through the 80's. My very first M16...DI..A1 was not an M16A1. It was an M16 as it had no forward assist, and a prong flash hider. After the very next Battalion graduated, we turned those in for bonified A1's. </div></div>
    I went to Parris Island in 79, and every rifle I saw was a A1 or a XM16E1 with a chrome bore.
     

    kraigWY

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    Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

    At this timne, all Model 1911's were supposed to be turned in, but we were told by our lower command that we were not turning our .45's for 'those God damned 9mm's![/quote}

    I was of the same opinion. I refused to go to the 9mm. I had a personal USGI 1911a1 and when ever I had to carry a pistol I used it instead of drawing the M9. I was in a position where no one questioned or tried to over ride me.

    It wasn't until last year when I finely tried the Beretta. I was offered a job teaching shooting and bomb disposal in never never land (which was recanted because of COPD).

    Still have my 1911a1 by the way, its a colt with a US&SC slide.
    Anyway since I would have been armed only with the M9, wife bought a 92FS and insisted I play with it.

    Turns out I was cutting off my nose to spite my face. I really like the Beretta, not better then the 1911a1, but a lot more then I thought I would.
     

    Don't try to run

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    Minuteman
    Feb 25, 2011
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    Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Making him eat those words was teh best thing I ever witnessed in some 26 years of service..outside a foreign bar that is!
    Semper Fi! </div></div>
    Would that be a Olongapo bar, or a Subic City bar? Or even Pattaya bar?</div></div> Yeah, that's a story I'm sure would be worth listening to.

    Well, we're waiting.
    wink.gif
    </div></div>
    At Jolo's in Olongapo there were girls who did Peso shows. You would stack them up and they could keep all they could hold, and they didn't use their hands to do it. We made sure they were the big, wide, heavy old Pesos, not the new, light, and smaller ones. Those cruel bastards from the Helicopter sqaudron used to heat some up with lighters and slip them into the pile.
    I saw a girl have sex with a mullet in Pattaya. Three shows a night. Used the same poor fish too. She would swirl it around in a bucket of seawater every so often to keep it from suffocating.
     

    Don't try to run

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    Minuteman
    Feb 25, 2011
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    Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Turns out I was cutting off my nose to spite my face. I really like the Beretta, not better then the 1911a1, but a lot more then I thought I would. </div></div>
    I agree. I had already shot expert (USMC expert) with stock old issue .45s when the change happened, and the M9 was much easier to hit with, especially for inexperienced shooters who only shot a pistol for a fam fire or a qual every couple years. They would have been lucky to hit somebody once, probably in the foot, with a .45, but would have made a target a swiss cheese with a M9 even if the target was shooting back.
    Saw a lot of stovepipes with the old .45s too, but never with a M9.
     

    Don't try to run

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    Minuteman
    Feb 25, 2011
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    Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

    I looked it up, and the Army ordered the E!, meaning with a Forward Assist, in 1963. When they were actually delivered is not mentioned, but i know in 65 there were Army units without them. The Air Force continued to buy the M16 without a FA longer.
    The Chrome Chamber, Chrome Bore, and buffer came later but did not warrant another designation. The M16A1 was with all the mods and improvements and a birdcage. the 3 prong therefor was a leftover part salvaged from a M16 or a XM16E1.
    The FA was demanded before the Powder issues, the unchromed bore issues, or the lack of cleaning gear issues ever surfaced.
    Many, including Eugene Stoner, opposed it because it added $4.50 to the purchase cost.
    I guess it was hard to go through a approval and modification program to work out the bugs while a war was going on, but it is always that way.
    I am surprised that Kraig started this thread, since with his age, experience, and decrepitude I would have expected him to not only know all this stuff, but to have been a vocal stimulus for the obvious needs for change from the very beginning. Maybe he has dementia now, and has forgotten.
     

    Switchblade

    muf kin poser
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

    I was a DG for my helo squadron, and a AIMD Avionics/Electronics Technician(short for holding three AIMD MOS's in mechanics, electronics and AC). I ate at the MAG chow hall all the time, and usually at lunch my two buddies from 2/3 would be with me...of course they had to hump across the bridge from the grunt side of the base.

    Now them stories about the PI, and Oki, well, they are grist for a good bit of company, bourbon, cigars, and a pool table or dart board. Heating up Peso's/Yen...OH NO, NEVER DID THAT!!!!(he's bullshitting again!) THAT was funny shit! The best of course was Knights of the Round Table, man Old Corps shit was fuckin A fun!
     

    Don't try to run

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    Minuteman
    Feb 25, 2011
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    Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

    Who did you float with? What ships? Which BLT? What years?
    Did you ever fall off the bridge into Shit River, or was the fence up by the time you got there? Remember the kids with the scuba masks who would dive for the pesos the river queens missed?e
    If we went over to that chow hall on the wing side they refused us entry based on our mealcards. I guess the thought decent food and tablecloths would spoil us, or else they were afraid we would steal the silverware. On our side the cooks kept getting arrested for stealing the food and selling it in town, so we didn't eat very well on what was left of the $3 a day they got for us. Your chow hall got a supplemental budget and was much better.
     

    gprippers

    Sergeant
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    Minuteman
    Mar 11, 2010
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    OREGON
    Re: M16/M16A1 Question for the old guys

    They used 3 prong flash hiders til they ran out of inventory! THey wasted nothing and the rifle you had was just in transition where they had used the forward assist lower and the older upper parts. I actually have had commerical Colts the same way. You are not losing your mind at all! LOL!