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Suppressors M2 carbine

Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 65mm06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wouldn't it be legal to convert an M1 on a Form 1 just like building a suppressor/ SBR/ SBS? </div></div>

No! No conversion from an M1 to an M2 on a Form 1, You need to be an 02/SOT to legally make the conversion.
 
Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 65mm06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(02/SOT)? forgive my ignorance </div></div>

A Class 3 SOT dealer is a dealer of NFA firearms
A Class 2 SOT manufacturer is a manufacturer of NFA firearms
A Class 1 SOT importer is an importer of NFA firearms

Type 1 FFL is a Title 1 dealer or gunsmith
Type 2 FFL is a Title 1 dealer doing business as a pawnbroker
Type 3 FFL is a licensed collector of Curio & Relic (C&R) firearms
Type 6 FFL is a licensed maker of ammunition and reloading components other than Armor Piercing ammunition
Type 7 FFL is a Title 1 manufacturer of firearms, ammunition and ammunition components other than NFA, Destructive Devices and Armor Piercing ammunition
Type 8 FFL is an importer of Title 1 firearms and ammunition
Type 9 FFL is a dealer in Title 1 firearms including NFA destructive devices, but no other NFA
Type 10 FFL is a manufacturer of Title 1 firearms, ammunition and ammunition components, including NFA Destructive Devices but no other NFA, and not including Armor Piercing ammunition
Type 11 FFL is an importer of Title 1 firearms, ammunition and NFA Destructive Devices, but no other NFA

To get a Class 3 SOT status, you need a dealer or manufacturer FFL which includes Type 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11 - and pay a yearly $500 tax due every July 1st.

To get a Class 2 SOT status, you need a manufacturer FFL, which includes Type 7, 10 - and pay a yearly $1000 or $500 (reduced rate for small manufacturers) tax due every July 1st.

To get a Class 1 SOT status, you need an importer FFL, which includes Type 8, 11- and pay a yearly $1000 or $500 (reduced rate for small importers) tax due every July 1st.
 
Re: M2 carbine

cool thanks for the info. so the probable best option would be to have the parts destroyed in this theoretical situation?
 
Re: M2 carbine

Your welcome! I would stay far away from those parts.Not worth up to ten years in prison.
 
Re: M2 carbine

+1 not worth going to jail. though you probably could transfer the parts to an authorized dealer.
the risk far outweighs the rewards
 
Re: M2 carbine

You know this question was brought up before in terms of an M16A1 that was found from Vietnam. I lost track of the post, but I'm sure its on here somewhere.

Net of the advice was to destroy the lower.

IIRC there wasn't even an option to transfer it to a museum or such.
 
Re: M2 carbine

If it wasn't registered prior to the cutoff date (May 19, 1986 IIRC) then it is contraban and cannot be legally registered, even by a SOT. However, it might be worth the effort to have a lawyer contact BATF to determine whether or not it was registered, it might be in the registry but the paperwork was lost by the owner. If it is not some parts might be salvagable though the receiver would need to be destroyed as proscribed by law.
 
Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it wasn't registered prior to the cutoff date (May 19, 1986 IIRC) then it is contraban and cannot be legally registered, even by a SOT. However, it might be worth the effort to have a lawyer contact BATF to determine whether or not it was registered, it might be in the registry but the paperwork was lost by the owner. If it is not some parts might be salvagable though the receiver would need to be destroyed as proscribed by law. </div></div>
That is correct, had to be registered before the machine gun ban of may 19, 1986, the us has only allowed it's citizens to register an illegally possessed weapon sbr, aow, silencer, etc, once. Back in the 60's there was an amnesty period where you could come clean and register your class 3 weapon with no penialty, but you won't ever see that happen again, and no civilian can own a machine gun manufactured after the 86 date unless it was converted later using a sear or a recevier that was registered previously to the 86 ban
 
Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it wasn't registered prior to the cutoff date (May 19, 1986 IIRC) then it is contraban and cannot be legally registered, even by a SOT.</div></div>

A Class 02 SOT (having a 07 or 10 Tpye FFL) can manufacture and register as a "post sample" machine gun.

"Presample" is a foreign gun imported and registered between '68-'86.

"Postsample" is ANY gun registered after 05/19/1986.

"Fully transferrable" is any foreign gun registered before '68 and any domestic gun registered before 05/19/1986.

"18 U.S.C. 922(o) Manufacturers may make and stockpile after May 19, 1986 only if the weapons are held for sale to Federal or State agencies, for distribution as bona fide sales samples, or for export."
 
Re: M2 carbine

Ok just so we're clear there is no M2 receiver involved I just thought it may all fall under the same category as conversion parts. I'd really like to have an M2 replica for my collection. I found an M2 stock in very good condition for $5 at a flea market of all places. The guy said he had other parts for that particular gun at his home that were found after a relative passed. I didn't even ask about them until i found some info about the legality of it all. The find got my wheels turning about doing an M1 conversion.

So if i wanted to have an M1 converted to an M2 could i take it to A Class 02 SOT then try to find the needed conversion parts?

Ive seen it posted that the M2 conversion parts are only considered a machine gun if all the conversion parts are together in one place...true or not?



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a part of no you don't understand</div></div>

People like you are why i don't spend more time here. If, in your opinion, the discussion isn't worth constructive input, simply don't participate.

Thanks to everyone else for your input.
 
Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ONCE a machinegun, ALWAYS a machinegun. </div></div>

ok but what collection of parts? The M2 bolt and trigger housing are among the 7 mechanical pieces needed to convert an M1 to M2 but the M2 bolt and trigger housing were used in many later production M1s, the M2 bolt and housing don't make an M1 a machine gun.
 
Re: M2 carbine

A friend inherited M1/M2 back in the 80's 15 minutes after he pulled the trigger for the 1st and only time he was at the Sheriffs department turning it in. It took 2 years and alot of money for the ATF to leave him alone.
 
Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 65mm06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if i wanted to have an M1 converted to an M2 could i take it to A Class 02 SOT</div></div>

An 02/SOT could legally make the conversion,but ONLY he can register and legally possess it as a post sample machine gun.You can not possess the weapon!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 65mm06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok but what collection of parts?</div></div>

The parts are legally a machine gun.
1) M2 hammer, 2) M2 sear, 3) disconnector, 4) disconnector lever, 5) selector, and 6) M2 slide (cut out on right side to operate the disconnector lever).

These are the six parts the BATFE has deemed needed to covert an M1 to an M2, hence the parts are an illegal unregistered machine gun if in your possession whether you own an M1 or NOT!!

Theoretically speaking 65mm06,if you have the parts you are in possession of an unregistered machine gun! Just as Outsy said "once a machine gun always a machine gun".
 
Re: M2 carbine

Now were talkin'! Thank you very much. Those are the answers i was looking for. I don't have any parts (except the stock) but now i know not to bother asking the guy what parts he has.

Are there any legal M2s for sale in circulation? I'd really like to have one. My dad used to tell me full auto M2 stories, and its something i've always wanted.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gaffer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To get a Class 2 SOT status, you need a manufacturer FFL, which includes Type 7, 10 - and pay a yearly $1000 or $500 (reduced rate for small manufacturers) tax due every July 1st.


</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gaffer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 65mm06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if i wanted to have an M1 converted to an M2 could i take it to A Class 02 SOT</div></div>

An 02/SOT could legally make the conversion,but ONLY he can register and legally possess it as a post sample machine gun.You can not possess the weapon!


</div></div>

I assume that if there are any available on the open market they would be prohibitively expensive...
which leads me to another complicated question.

If an 02/SOT has a registered post sample machine gun (converted M1)in his posession, could he maintain posession of it if he chose not to renew his license?

I'm thinking if I had one converted by an 02/SOT then got an 02/SOT license myself to get the gun in my posession legally, would i be able to keep it upon expiration of the license?
 
Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 65mm06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are there any legal M2s for sale in circulation? I'd really like to have one. My dad used to tell me full auto M2 stories, and it's something I've always wanted.</div></div>

If you're really interested, then I have for sale a transferable M2 carbine (Springfield registered receiver) and approximately 4000 rounds of .30 Carbine ammunition...
 
Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 65mm06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If an 02/SOT has a registered post sample machine gun (converted M1)in his posession, could he maintain posession of it if he chose not to renew his license?

I'm thinking if I had one converted by an 02/SOT then got an 02/SOT license myself to get the gun in my posession legally, would i be able to keep it upon expiration of the license</div></div>

NO! The SOT would have to transfer the post sample to another SOT. An SOT may keep a pre sample if he does not renew hi license but, it may only transfer to another SOT at the time of sale. You can not create a transferable machine gun!

It is far cheaper for you just to purchase a transferable M2! You must become a type 7 or type 10 FFL first, then apply for 02 SOT second. Do you have a store front? Machinery to manufacture under the license you apply for? Funds for the FFL and SOT? ITAR fees? BATFE inspection and interview prior to activation of license. Many steps to climb, hurdles to jump and fees to pay to become a legal manufacturer of NFA items. A transferable will be cheaper and quicker than trying to become an SOT just posses one M2 machine gun.
 
Re: M2 carbine

Ok, enough said, thanks for all the info. i really was grasping at straws trying to find a loophole, but none to be had this time.
 
Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gaffer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it wasn't registered prior to the cutoff date (May 19, 1986 IIRC) then it is contraban and cannot be legally registered, even by a SOT.</div></div>

A Class 02 SOT (having a 07 or 10 Tpye FFL) can manufacture and register as a "post sample" machine gun.

"Presample" is a foreign gun imported and registered between '68-'86.

"Postsample" is ANY gun registered after 05/19/1986.

"Fully transferrable" is any foreign gun registered before '68 and any domestic gun registered before 05/19/1986.

"18 U.S.C. 922(o) Manufacturers may make and stockpile after May 19, 1986 only if the weapons are held for sale to Federal or State agencies, for distribution as bona fide sales samples, or for export."
</div></div>

I am refering specifically to the "found unregister MG" scenario. Even a SOT cannot register a previously manufactured, illegally held MG regardless of "pre" or "post" dating.
 
Re: M2 carbine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt284</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gaffer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it wasn't registered prior to the cutoff date (May 19, 1986 IIRC) then it is contraban and cannot be legally registered, even by a SOT.</div></div>

A Class 02 SOT (having a 07 or 10 Tpye FFL) can manufacture and register as a "post sample" machine gun.

"Presample" is a foreign gun imported and registered between '68-'86.

"Postsample" is ANY gun registered after 05/19/1986.

"Fully transferrable" is any foreign gun registered before '68 and any domestic gun registered before 05/19/1986.

"18 U.S.C. 922(o) Manufacturers may make and stockpile after May 19, 1986 only if the weapons are held for sale to Federal or State agencies, for distribution as bona fide sales samples, or for export."
</div></div>

I am refering specifically to the "found unregister MG" scenario. Even a SOT cannot register a previously manufactured, illegally held MG regardless of "pre" or "post" dating. </div></div>

AND, there are still "legally" held pre-86 weapons in police departments, that are unregistered that cannot ever be registered.
 
Re: M2 carbine

This might be an old post I'm replying to, if so, sorry. I would like to buy the M2 mentioned here. Please let me know if still available. Thanks so much. Ross J [email protected]