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Your screen name should be MacGyver!
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- Thread starter ncoutdoorsman
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Just curious... with all of this drifting and contacting and fitting and refitting and relieving and shifting, going on, to fit your barreled action, trigger group and bottom metal... to this stock... were you using 'inletting black' as an aide??
I use crushed carbon; Expo markers; colored chalk... really anything I have that will "rub off" and show occlusions/contact. I didn't do any "refitting". Just fitting.
So here is the start of my attempt to make an accurate build
I have 90% stock and the brass insert, an old 60s 40X action with the short bolt shroud, double sear tombstone trigger, a NOS Redfield scope mount, a set of NOS Redfield 1" rings with the 4 slotted screws, the correct end plate, the only thing is that the barrel is a 22" Hart but it shoots a ragged hole so I might keep it a while till I decide to rebarrel. Still looking for that magic gen 1 scope to have re-anodized in order to make this a perfect period correct gen 1 M40 model. I went with the 40X since some have speculated that some of the first were 40Xs. The only other things beside the barrel that I need to correct, if I feel like doing so, is the internal magazine came with the cut aways and the bottom metal. I had it personalized and sitting around for a build for myself one day. So this is going to be the build I use it on. Any insight or corrections from you guys would be appreciated
Thanks
I have 90% stock and the brass insert, an old 60s 40X action with the short bolt shroud, double sear tombstone trigger, a NOS Redfield scope mount, a set of NOS Redfield 1" rings with the 4 slotted screws, the correct end plate, the only thing is that the barrel is a 22" Hart but it shoots a ragged hole so I might keep it a while till I decide to rebarrel. Still looking for that magic gen 1 scope to have re-anodized in order to make this a perfect period correct gen 1 M40 model. I went with the 40X since some have speculated that some of the first were 40Xs. The only other things beside the barrel that I need to correct, if I feel like doing so, is the internal magazine came with the cut aways and the bottom metal. I had it personalized and sitting around for a build for myself one day. So this is going to be the build I use it on. Any insight or corrections from you guys would be appreciated
Thanks
So here is the start of my attempt to make an accurate build
I have 90% stock and the brass insert, an old 60s 40X action with the short bolt shroud, double sear tombstone trigger, a NOS Redfield scope mount, a set of NOS Redfield 1" rings with the 4 slotted screws, the correct end plate, the only thing is that the barrel is a 22" Hart but it shoots a ragged hole so I might keep it a while till I decide to rebarrel. Still looking for that magic gen 1 scope to have re-anodized in order to make this a perfect period correct gen 1 M40 model. I went with the 40X since some have speculated that some of the first were 40Xs. The only other things beside the barrel that I need to correct, if I feel like doing so, is the internal magazine came with the cut aways and the bottom metal. I had it personalized and sitting around for a build for myself one day. So this is going to be the build I use it on. Any insight or corrections from you guys would be appreciated
Thanks
Is the floorplate/guard aluminum or steel?
spent a bunch of $$$ on a chuck Mawhinney replica when I could have just built it myself
Getting close. I got the stock yesterday from Silver Hill. I have probably 6 hours in it so far. The base I got from eBay for like $15 and the scope was another eBay find. It doesn't have the range finder reticle but I don't care. The rifle is a 2006ish PSS which has a 26" barrel but who cares.
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Twomanattack:
Looked it up. It is $$$. BTW, you can unload you 40x mounts here. People are looking high and low for them. BTW, is it 2 Man Attack or T Woman Attack.
Looked it up. It is $$$. BTW, you can unload you 40x mounts here.
People are looking high and low for them. BTW, is it 2 Man Attack or T Woman Attack. Last edited by a moderator:
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Jake:
Looking good. I have the same scope. I don't care about the reticle as well. The Marines didn't use the tombstone for shit.
Looking good. I have the same scope. I don't care about the reticle as well. The Marines didn't use the tombstone for shit.
Not sure that i want to sell the mount. Would much rather trade it for something else just as cool. Im sure as soon as i part with it, i will need it. That always happens.
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This should help in finding a correct Redfield scope for the period the M40 was introduced. I got this from a '66 catalog
Reticle type followed by item number.
3-9x Variable
4P CCH 112013
Fine Crosshair 112000
Med. Crosshair 112001
Heavy Crosshair 112002
Post w./crosshair 112003
3 to 1 Dot 112004
3-9x Variable Accu-Range
4P CCH 112014
Fine Crosshair 112006
Med. Crosshair 112007
Heavy Crosshair 112008
Post w./crosshair 112009
3 to 1 Dot 112010
4P CCH is a duplex reticle. 3 to 1 dot is a is a crosshair reticle with a dot at the intersection.
Reticle type followed by item number.
3-9x Variable
4P CCH 112013
Fine Crosshair 112000
Med. Crosshair 112001
Heavy Crosshair 112002
Post w./crosshair 112003
3 to 1 Dot 112004
3-9x Variable Accu-Range
4P CCH 112014
Fine Crosshair 112006
Med. Crosshair 112007
Heavy Crosshair 112008
Post w./crosshair 112009
3 to 1 Dot 112010
4P CCH is a duplex reticle. 3 to 1 dot is a is a crosshair reticle with a dot at the intersection.
I'm at the "BUY NOW" button...
My finger's a twitch'n... There's no box, so how do I know what I'm gett'n.
I'm a scrounger, by training, which means, by and large, that the boxes are long-long gone and I'm looking for physical characteristics and markings. The Gen.I and Gen.II scopes are serial numbered, but where do these numbers, i.e., 112006, 112007, etc., appear, outside of a period catalog?
How do they help us, for example, determine if an Accurange has a medium and not a fine crosshair? For myself (as well as other lurkers- yeah, you're out there,) I'm always looking for any bit of information that can make my searches more productive and my money well spent.
As always, thanks, in advance.
My finger's a twitch'n... There's no box, so how do I know what I'm gett'n.
I'm a scrounger, by training, which means, by and large, that the boxes are long-long gone and I'm looking for physical characteristics and markings. The Gen.I and Gen.II scopes are serial numbered, but where do these numbers, i.e., 112006, 112007, etc., appear, outside of a period catalog?
How do they help us, for example, determine if an Accurange has a medium and not a fine crosshair? For myself (as well as other lurkers- yeah, you're out there,) I'm always looking for any bit of information that can make my searches more productive and my money well spent.
As always, thanks, in advance.
They kept it on 9x and estimated hold over... Half the tombstones fell off anyway.
Some 95% stock, huh? Mine was a mess, they actually sent me another one. But I pillar bedded the other, it's friggin' tight. And it came out nice. I'm gonna hold on to the other one and fit it when I'm ready... Or build another rifle. Lol. Lord know I got plenty of scopes!!Getting close. I got the stock yesterday from Silver Hill. I have probably 6 hours in it so far. The base I got from eBay for like $15 and the scope was another eBay find. It doesn't have the range finder reticle but I don't care. The rifle is a 2006ish PSS which has a 26" barrel but who cares.
I had the same floor plate. Stripped off the paint and and sanded it smooth, anodized it black. Looks like the originals. It's painted, btw. Get the 513t swivels from Sarco for $10 a piece. You can get slot head receiver screws from Brownells. You're also a bit "proud" by the ejection port, or whatever it's called. This was my issue.
Started out as a $450 Remington 700 ADL Varmint. Here's how it finished up..
Hmm, eye ball it?
Here's mine, I'll take more pictures if ya'll need them.
The top turret
The windage turret
Branding, I'm guessing that's a serial on the other side?
Zoom ring
The reticle. The stadia lines at the top are very slightly more narrow than the crosshairs. Almost imperceptibly so. Maybe that's just how they are, or it's a 'medium' crosshair?
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One is a replica and the other is a USMC issued mount.
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Eyeballing is useful. The subtension for crosshairs @ 100 yards 9x.:
Heavy CH:
3x=1.5"
9x=.50"
Medium CH:
3x=1.0"
9x=.33"
Fine CH:
3x=.75"
9x=..25"
Stadia wires are fine CH.
The duplex posts, if they exist on the scope, are Heavy CH.
I've been working with Strelok to add this reticle to the program. My only question is the distance between stadia wires represent 18". Is that at 3x at 100 yards? The lowest number on the tombstone scale is 200 yards. So, at what magnification at 200 yards = 18"? This can be done by eyeballing at 200 yards.
Heavy CH:
3x=1.5"
9x=.50"
Medium CH:
3x=1.0"
9x=.33"
Fine CH:
3x=.75"
9x=..25"
Stadia wires are fine CH.
The duplex posts, if they exist on the scope, are Heavy CH.
I've been working with Strelok to add this reticle to the program. My only question is the distance between stadia wires represent 18". Is that at 3x at 100 yards? The lowest number on the tombstone scale is 200 yards. So, at what magnification at 200 yards = 18"? This can be done by eyeballing at 200 yards.
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Looks great! What was the final correct solution for adjusting the stock to the rifle?
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Since I have a Badger I'm going to assume that is a Badger repro. From what I understand Badger used a 1969 base to reproduce. Thus, a 700 short action rather than a 40x. They are interchangeable though. That is why the Redfield "700SA" mount will work and so will the longer Redfield "722" mount. I don't see any noticeable functional difference between the "722" mount and the "40x" mount.
The ejection port area is my biggest complaint about the stock. I can't really lower the action into the stock anymore (without a ton of work anyway). I'm getting close to putting my final sanding on it, then starts the process of oiling it with BLO. I haven't decided if I want to stain it yet or not. I considered pillar bedding as well or maybe glass bedding or both. I was able to free float the barrel relatively easily. Also on my stock if you notice the bottom metal is recessed quite a bit into the stock. I've sanded the stock down some and will probably go a little more. 95% is definitely a stretch lol, but I don't mind I love tinkering.
Accu Range Stadia Wires- the 18 inch question...
Question:
Answer:
I'd think that if target presented under 200 yds., the stadia would/should visually cover a larger area, vertically. (being outside of specified design parameters)
Question:
Answer:
I'd think that if target presented under 200 yds., the stadia would/should visually cover a larger area, vertically. (being outside of specified design parameters)
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Great reference information and helpful for evaluating NOS, ANIB or Used Original with Original Box Accu Range scope(s).
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Stadia wires represent 6" @100 yards 9x. It only reps 18" based on range, magnification, and target size. Know your weapon system.
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Elbow grease and articulating medium (carbon). It's still a little "warpy" if you look at the last pic. I'll live with it until I get the mental fortitude to work on the replacement stock I received.
And the Dremel to lower the position of the receiver in the stock. Had to remove a lot of material. That's why I decided to bed it.
And the Dremel to lower the position of the receiver in the stock. Had to remove a lot of material. That's why I decided to bed it.
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Take something that is 18" and set it out at two hundred yards. At what magnification does the 18" fit between the two stadia wires? The tombstone should be showing 200 as well.
Thanks for that technical bit of data. I've never used this system, myself, being trained on straight power scopes and the old methods of range estimation and knowing your sight-in and round trajectories. I understand the relationship the 18" has to range, magnification and target size (an assumption,) in this system.
Q-1.) Can the 6 inches @100 yards @9X be used as a constant, with practical application of some sort, at other more distant ranges?
Q-2.) Or is it limited in it's practical application?
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And use as an opportunity it to gauge the actual distance between your stadia wires and record it under one of your turret caps.
This is what I'm telling the guys who are having me do conversions.
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1. For this scope 1 MOA = 1 inch @100 yards 9x. So 100 yards 9x it is 150" across the entire range of the reticle. In other words, the field of view is 150" at 100 yards 9x. So, from the middle horizontal crosshair to the top of the reticle is 75". From the middle horizontal crosshair to the first stadia wire is 44". The distance between the stadia wires is 6". From the middle horizontal crosshair to top or second stadia wire is 50". From the top or second stadia wire to the top reticle is 25" So, 44" + 6" + 25" = 75". Leaving at a set power, like 9x, you can apply the MOA rule to the distance the retile lines represent at any known distance. You can even get more complex by factoring in the subtensions of the wires. Example, fine crosshair wires represent .25" @100 yards 9x.
2. The stadia wires are set up for a limited application. That is, the variable power Accu-Range or Accu-Trac system with the tombstone ranging. And they don't always represent 18". 18" is a basis for the average deer. It could be different for other game. For example, it could represent 24" for Elk. That is 1/3 more than 18". So, you square up your elk between the stadia wires and the tombstone reads 450 yards. Add 1/3 to that and the range is really approx. 600 yards. The average sheep is 22.5" I don't even want to estimate that. You can see why this ranging system is sort of joke. Your deer could be 20" rather than 18" and you will be off on your distance to target using this ranging system. Marines realized this and just held over. The average range in Vietnam was about 300 yards. With a rifle zeroed at 500 yards they would just aim at about crotch level at that distance. As you can imagine, you can get even more complex or accurate by factoring in the load you are using.
2. The stadia wires are set up for a limited application. That is, the variable power Accu-Range or Accu-Trac system with the tombstone ranging. And they don't always represent 18". 18" is a basis for the average deer. It could be different for other game. For example, it could represent 24" for Elk. That is 1/3 more than 18". So, you square up your elk between the stadia wires and the tombstone reads 450 yards. Add 1/3 to that and the range is really approx. 600 yards. The average sheep is 22.5" I don't even want to estimate that. You can see why this ranging system is sort of joke. Your deer could be 20" rather than 18" and you will be off on your distance to target using this ranging system. Marines realized this and just held over. The average range in Vietnam was about 300 yards. With a rifle zeroed at 500 yards they would just aim at about crotch level at that distance. As you can imagine, you can get even more complex or accurate by factoring in the load you are using.
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Thanks for such a great explanation. It's comforting to know that the 'old ways' can (and do, up to a point that is) still work, for the M40. It was really not the rifle's primary components, so much as the next evolution in optics, that really allowed the M40A1 to supercede the M40.
I think I have some original USMC gun books for the M40 rifles. I only have a few though. I have many of the other ones I think I only have a few that were during the M40 time frame.
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Are those the blank books or have they been stamped?
Any of ya'll have issues with the Silver Hill stock accepting a modern 700 trigger. It's like the inletting around the trigger area isn't enough. I ran into the same problem with an older HS Precision stock as well. Just making sure I'm not crazy before taking a dremel to it.
On the subject of M40 Stocks... another option
Way-way back, another forum member mentioned Custom Rifle Stocks and their CRS M40 stock. Regrettably, the topic ended there. Complicating things, the CRS web site Custom Rifle Stocks - Gun Stock Duplicating makes no mention of this stock profile in their inventory. I've contacted them and requested photos, which they've forwarded and are posted below. In the content of their email reply, they refer to this as a 2nd. Generation M40 profile (which implies (strongly) that there were actually two (2) separate and distinct profiles.)
I haven't seen one, in person, but this certainly appears to be a quality offering. My intent is to present, to forum members, another available option to consider for their project(s.)
Good luck!!
Way-way back, another forum member mentioned Custom Rifle Stocks and their CRS M40 stock. Regrettably, the topic ended there. Complicating things, the CRS web site Custom Rifle Stocks - Gun Stock Duplicating makes no mention of this stock profile in their inventory. I've contacted them and requested photos, which they've forwarded and are posted below. In the content of their email reply, they refer to this as a 2nd. Generation M40 profile (which implies (strongly) that there were actually two (2) separate and distinct profiles.)
I haven't seen one, in person, but this certainly appears to be a quality offering. My intent is to present, to forum members, another available option to consider for their project(s.)
Good luck!!
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Started out as a $450 Remington 700 ADL Varmint. Here's how it finished up..
Rifle looks great tokiwartooth!
Blank
Nice work on those rifles guys!
Another alternative for the stock is the 553690 from Numrich. Its been out of stock for almost a year. I kept looking once in a while, and was surprised to see it available early January! Hit the 'order' button right away. Must've scooped the only one they had, the order was shipped today and guess what, its already out of stock... for another year I guess... It was still available yesterday.
I will build a repro vintage 700P in .223 out of it. I love woodworking, but I'm tired of wasting time on stocks that dont fit well... I take my hat off to those of you who built M40 out of ADL checkered stocks. Thats a lot of work. And from what I hear, the latest Silver Hill are far from being a 'drop-in' thing..
I could round off the tip of the 553690 to make it a M40, but my goal here is NO work. No refinishing. Drop a barreled action in and be done with it. Top it off with a Weaver T10.
I spent almost a year gathering parts and building my M40, wont do it again! It was fun, but I want to shoot my rifles.
I will post of the 553690 when I get it. Not cheap at 200$ though..
Another alternative for the stock is the 553690 from Numrich. Its been out of stock for almost a year. I kept looking once in a while, and was surprised to see it available early January! Hit the 'order' button right away. Must've scooped the only one they had, the order was shipped today and guess what, its already out of stock... for another year I guess... It was still available yesterday.
I will build a repro vintage 700P in .223 out of it. I love woodworking, but I'm tired of wasting time on stocks that dont fit well... I take my hat off to those of you who built M40 out of ADL checkered stocks. Thats a lot of work. And from what I hear, the latest Silver Hill are far from being a 'drop-in' thing..
I could round off the tip of the 553690 to make it a M40, but my goal here is NO work. No refinishing. Drop a barreled action in and be done with it. Top it off with a Weaver T10.
I spent almost a year gathering parts and building my M40, wont do it again! It was fun, but I want to shoot my rifles.
I will post of the 553690 when I get it. Not cheap at 200$ though..
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1st. LAW of woodworking- you can't put wood back, if you've removed too much.
To your question:
1. Draw a vertical centerline on your stock's butt, with a steel straightedge, to maintain an axis of alignment and prevent drifting right or left. (renew as needed)
2. Use an 'inletting black' product, or alternative, i.e. lamp soot/carbon to see your contact points. (as your buttplate 'settles-in,' your contact lines will lenghten/increase)
Note: At some point, you'll have your screws installed, as an aid to alignment, but the butt plate should fit, without a gap, without tightening them.
3. Start at the top- it maintains the line along the comb - and work the butt plate (SLOWLY) into the stock. Don't force the curve in the wood, or put pressure on the buttplate (using the screws) to make it conform to the stock.
4. Once in-place and using a steel straightedge, draw a line, uniform in width/depth, from the 'toe' of the butt stock to the back of the pistol grip. Remove wood, being careful to maintain the original bottom/round-ish contour.
5. Shape sides, uniformly, from butt plate towards wrist- use steel straight edge to check for high spots (low spot/dips, along the edge are BAAAAAAAAA_D)
Note: Use similar procedures for inletting action, magazine, barrel and recoil lug- identify high spots- remove wood slowly, obtaining uniform contact.
6. The ENTIRE exterior shape of the pre-inlet stock, IS WIDER/THICKER. Remove excess through magazine well and forearm as lines and parts dictate.
Good luck!
Personally, I don't recommend using a dremel tool, for stock work, only because it can remove a lot of material, very quickly- almost too quickly. Then again, if you're going to glass-bed the entire action, including the trigger group and magazine- have at it.
Q. What's going on with that 'green tint' parkerizing formula? Like I said, I'm indifferent to your methodolgy. If alcohol isn't effective- use torture (scratching on a slate blackboard - your choice- whatever works.)
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I outlined mine on the back of the stock with a mechanical pencil. I more or less aligned the bottom of the plate with the bottom of the stock, so I could maintain the same slope at the bottom of the stock. Then I used a dremel tool to sand the wood down to OUTSIDE of the lines then fine tuned it by hand sanding. Be prepared to do lots of hand sanding.
Well after some research... evidently you apply the inletting black/whatever to the metal part, and not the wood. I was having the damnest time trying to figure out how using a dry erase marker on a buttstock would rub off. I am not a smart man.
However, threads like these save me lots of time and money. Cheers guys, I'll at least start on the stocking part tonight.
However, threads like these save me lots of time and money. Cheers guys, I'll at least start on the stocking part tonight.
On the subject of sourcing parts for the M40...
Sourcing Remington: Butt Plates, Butt Plate Screws, Sling Swivel(s)- Front & Rear
Here are three (3) photos of a Remington 725: a.) butt plate with sling swivel and b-1. & b-2.) forearm sling swivel. While the Remington 725 was only manufactured from 1959 to 1961, it is the only model that I've found, that incorporated a complete set of front and rear swivels (machine threaded and wood threaded.)
a.)
b-1. & b-2.)
Good hunting!
Sourcing Remington: Butt Plates, Butt Plate Screws, Sling Swivel(s)- Front & Rear
Here are three (3) photos of a Remington 725: a.) butt plate with sling swivel and b-1. & b-2.) forearm sling swivel. While the Remington 725 was only manufactured from 1959 to 1961, it is the only model that I've found, that incorporated a complete set of front and rear swivels (machine threaded and wood threaded.)
a.)
b-1. & b-2.)
Good hunting!
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He is showing what is easy to find within the current supply trail.
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Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
??? The 513T swivels are easy to find. I ordered 2 from Numrich should be here soon.
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