Thanks man!
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Thanks man!
Gentlemen;
I am sure most of you have read MescaBug's thread on his original M40 stock. Well, Marty at Badger weighed in with some VERY detailed information that will be of interest to those of you who are obsessed with the gnat's backside of details (Paging Bolt_Trash...paging Dr. Bolt_Trash. Please pick up the nearest white courtesy telephone...)
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...242934-genuine-remington-m40-stock-found.html
Mossyrock
I am sure most of you have read MescaBug's thread on his original M40 stock. Well, Marty at Badger weighed in with some VERY detailed information that will be of interest to those of you who are obsessed with the gnat's backside of details (Paging Bolt_Trash...paging Dr. Bolt_Trash. Please pick up the nearest white courtesy telephone...)
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...242934-genuine-remington-m40-stock-found.html
Mossyrock
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Thanks for the heads-up Mossyrock! I've just updated the settings on my thread subscriptions. It's all great information and the close-up photos, accompanied by detailed explanations, shared by those owner/SH members with original, as-issued and complete M40's is very encouraging to see. Frankly, I'd like to see SH members with this depth of knowledge and resources, do more of it.
My questions, of late, as well as those of other members on the "M40 Build Guide," yourself included, have been about receiver and barrel stamping specifics. To date, those few questions remain, conspicuously, ignored and unanswered.
Based on what I've seen, SH members are very appreciative of any specific and in-depth details on the M40 and especially when it originates from an original M40.
My questions, of late, as well as those of other members on the "M40 Build Guide," yourself included, have been about receiver and barrel stamping specifics. To date, those few questions remain, conspicuously, ignored and unanswered.
Based on what I've seen, SH members are very appreciative of any specific and in-depth details on the M40 and especially when it originates from an original M40.
I did a SH search and could not find a thread, so here is my question.
Has someone done an inventory of known serial numbers of original M40's?
Has someone done an inventory of known serial numbers of original M40's?
Chandlers published a list of some of the serial numbers of actual USMC M40 rifles in volume 1 of their series Death from Afar but its far from complete since there was almost 1000 rifles actually purchased from Remington.
I was putting my stripped, 6-digit action back together last night, getting it ready to be rebarreled. While trying to install the trigger, it, of course, slips.... *ping* *ting...ting*..... I KNEW there was a reason I had Timneys in all of my other 700s. 
The dual sear trigger may be correct for an M40, but it is a pain in the BUTT to install!
The dual sear trigger may be correct for an M40, but it is a pain in the BUTT to install!Mossyrock, You don't have to torture yourself. The early tombstone safety came in single and twin sear versions, both issued in the same production year (1968.) See Post #429/Pg.09. Three things: 1.) nobody can actually see the guts of your trigger group, 2.) it's a clone... and 3.) the only *ting-*ting sound you should hear is the cubes being dropped in a glass before adding your favorite whiskey, bourbon or scotch.
Personally, I'm using a single sear on mine and I like my single malts neat.
Good luck!!
Personally, I'm using a single sear on mine and I like my single malts neat.
Good luck!!
I was putting my stripped, 6-digit action back together last night, getting it ready to be rebarreled. While trying to install the trigger, it, of course, slips.... *ping* *ting...ting*..... I KNEW there was a reason I had Timneys in all of my other 700s.
Well, I guess I am a bit of a masochist. I have been married twice, and have either been in, or worked for, the Army for 30+ years. Based on that, I must enjoy punishing myself. Besides, the only correct trigger I have is a two-sear unit. C'est la vie.
As for the Single Malt, I agree with you...especially if it is a Speyside. But, in keeping with the '60 theme of the M40, I am enjoying a James Bondian "Vesper".....shaken, not stirred.
As for the Single Malt, I agree with you...especially if it is a Speyside. But, in keeping with the '60 theme of the M40, I am enjoying a James Bondian "Vesper".....shaken, not stirred.
Well, here they are the final sticks of my collection. Other than a couple of scopes for my M70 and my early A3 I am finished....I have been gifted with such great friends over the years that have helped me acquire parts and build rifles for me.
Here are my most recent completed additions fresh back from PWS. The pics dont do them justice....
Here are my most recent completed additions fresh back from PWS. The pics dont do them justice....
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D
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I like the way you kept it original. Good job.
Thank you Culpeper.....Have been vary fortunate to find all of these parts. All parts are take off besides the receivers.
What is there to say, except they are simply 'OUTSTANDING' !!!
Thanks BT!
Amazing pics. Thanks for the details. This brings up another interesting question..... When did Remington incorporate the take-down slot (where you put the dime) in the cocking piece to assist in field stripping the bolt?
The first post does not cover the bottom medal or trigger. Is it BDL bottom metal, aluminum? Can anyone post a link to the right bottom medal from midway/brownell's? And the trigger is the old tombstone type with double sear?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The first post barely scratches the surface. There have been so many more contributions made on the many details and questions surrounding this rifle and it's parts, in the rest of this forum.
Your attentions are called to the following:
Pg. 09 Post #429
Pg. 13 Post #638, #649
Pg. 14 Post #672
Pg. 15 Post #710, #711, #712, #713, #714
Pg. 23 Post #1107 (Your Post #1116 is on the same page)
Except for the exact dimensions of the various/individual receiver and barrel stampings, if it's about the M40, it's been researched, photographed, discussed, asked and answered and can be found, here, somewhere.
Your attentions are called to the following:
Pg. 09 Post #429
Pg. 13 Post #638, #649
Pg. 14 Post #672
Pg. 15 Post #710, #711, #712, #713, #714
Pg. 23 Post #1107 (Your Post #1116 is on the same page)
Except for the exact dimensions of the various/individual receiver and barrel stampings, if it's about the M40, it's been researched, photographed, discussed, asked and answered and can be found, here, somewhere.
Bottom metal is aluminum, BDL. Any Rem 700 short action BDL floorplate will do. Dont bother buy from Brownells, buy it used here, eBay, gun forums. Its all over the place.
The trigger has been discussed in thorough details. Take some time to read the whole thread. Its 23 pages long, but everything you need to know is in there.
The trigger has been discussed in thorough details. Take some time to read the whole thread. Its 23 pages long, but everything you need to know is in there.
Well, today is the day. My action and barrel will be on their way to Longrifles, Inc for the metalwork. I guess while they are gone I need to get to work on the stock and bottom metal....
Well, here they are the final sticks of my collection. Other than a couple of scopes for my M70 and my early A3 I am finished....I have been gifted with such great friends over the years that have helped me acquire parts and build rifles for me.
Here are my most recent completed additions fresh back from PWS. The pics dont do them justice....
Beautiful scopes!! I'm going to use your Gen 2 pics to duplicate on Mossy's gen 2.
Are those the caps I did for you on the gen 1?
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Anyone want to sell an August of 1966 gun?? My birth month and year.
Sling selection...
I wanted a cotton web sling for my build. A short and ill-fitting sling, no matter how you cut it, will always be short and ill-fitting, but on the other-hand, a longer sling can always be made shorter.
I recently located and purchased a M14E2 sling which is 66 inches OAL and dresses to 34-1/2 inches (folded with tip touching figure '8' buckle,) including the quick-clip. With the distance between M40 swivels at ~27 inches, you have essentially ~7-1/2 inches of slack and/or drape in the sling.
See a web sling with more apparent coils/wraps, the larger figure '8' buckle, humped keeper and which may or may not be found with two (2) of it's original quick-clips? Then, you've chanced upon a M14E2 sling and a confirmation of length will settle the matter. They were available in 1968 and I'm good with that.
A little pricey, but on the up-side, it will always be a M14E2 sling.
I wanted a cotton web sling for my build. A short and ill-fitting sling, no matter how you cut it, will always be short and ill-fitting, but on the other-hand, a longer sling can always be made shorter.
I recently located and purchased a M14E2 sling which is 66 inches OAL and dresses to 34-1/2 inches (folded with tip touching figure '8' buckle,) including the quick-clip. With the distance between M40 swivels at ~27 inches, you have essentially ~7-1/2 inches of slack and/or drape in the sling.
See a web sling with more apparent coils/wraps, the larger figure '8' buckle, humped keeper and which may or may not be found with two (2) of it's original quick-clips? Then, you've chanced upon a M14E2 sling and a confirmation of length will settle the matter. They were available in 1968 and I'm good with that.
A little pricey, but on the up-side, it will always be a M14E2 sling.
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And where might one find this particular unicorn?
Mossyrock,
This one was found on Ebay, but you might stumble into one on any site offering various parts/accessories for firearms. This one was advertised as 'just' a "M1/M14/M1A" sling.
If you're happy with a nylon, or a leather National Match sling, you'll find uniformity. If, on the other-hand, you want a cotton web sling, it's not as easy as 'click and pay.' I didn't want a nylon or leather sling and I especially didn't want a sling that smelled (badly.) In my enthusiasm to buy a cotton web sling with all of the bells and whistles, outlined in this forum, I purchased one, on the Internet, based on a description and a photograph that had everything (Gov. Issue_NOS_MRT, etc.) It had everything, looked great, but a cotton web sling, is not a cotton web sling, is not a cotton web sling, as I learned and it was too short and ill fitting for my/any M40 build.
MescaBug started this sling topic, back a-ways and it never really got any traction. I pursued it, with more (perceived) PITA questions and reading over 100 pages of posts and comments, questions and answers, specifically, on the topic of M1 Garand and M14 slings. I posted on the topic, but deleted the whole thing due to a (perceived) lack of interest. A sling, after-all, is a sling, is a sling... right?
What I did garner, for my own purposes, was a certain depth on the topic. I learned what to look for and in this case, I knew what I was looking at. For me, it was the last piece in my parts search.
Other's mileage may vary.
BT
This one was found on Ebay, but you might stumble into one on any site offering various parts/accessories for firearms. This one was advertised as 'just' a "M1/M14/M1A" sling.
If you're happy with a nylon, or a leather National Match sling, you'll find uniformity. If, on the other-hand, you want a cotton web sling, it's not as easy as 'click and pay.' I didn't want a nylon or leather sling and I especially didn't want a sling that smelled (badly.) In my enthusiasm to buy a cotton web sling with all of the bells and whistles, outlined in this forum, I purchased one, on the Internet, based on a description and a photograph that had everything (Gov. Issue_NOS_MRT, etc.) It had everything, looked great, but a cotton web sling, is not a cotton web sling, is not a cotton web sling, as I learned and it was too short and ill fitting for my/any M40 build.
MescaBug started this sling topic, back a-ways and it never really got any traction. I pursued it, with more (perceived) PITA questions and reading over 100 pages of posts and comments, questions and answers, specifically, on the topic of M1 Garand and M14 slings. I posted on the topic, but deleted the whole thing due to a (perceived) lack of interest. A sling, after-all, is a sling, is a sling... right?
What I did garner, for my own purposes, was a certain depth on the topic. I learned what to look for and in this case, I knew what I was looking at. For me, it was the last piece in my parts search.
Other's mileage may vary.
BT
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Well, it looks like I just lucked onto said unicorn over at the M14 board. Some days you get lucky...
Is yours dated? If so, what is the date?
Is yours dated? If so, what is the date?
Someday, I'll come across a nice clean "PC" cotton web sling for my project and by PC/correct, please see the photos in Post #1109 of member rlm8541 M40 clone projects. When I do, I'll get it.
I read somewhere, that on the Internet, something done twice is defined as a 'trend.' That... that makes you a 'trend-setter.'
I didn't find any dates, on mine. Received it - Measured it - Dressed it to check length - Packaged it (with my other parts) - and Shipped it, in that order. The next time I'll see it, will be when this project is complete. I say 'this' project, because there's always... always... another one.
Last details, for me, are the measurement specs., for the receiver and barrel stampings... but, there's still time yet, for those.
I read somewhere, that on the Internet, something done twice is defined as a 'trend.' That... that makes you a 'trend-setter.'
I didn't find any dates, on mine. Received it - Measured it - Dressed it to check length - Packaged it (with my other parts) - and Shipped it, in that order. The next time I'll see it, will be when this project is complete. I say 'this' project, because there's always... always... another one.
Last details, for me, are the measurement specs., for the receiver and barrel stampings... but, there's still time yet, for those.
Well, it looks like I just lucked onto said unicorn over at the M14 board. Some days you get lucky...
Is yours dated? If so, what is the date?
Such great info in here! Little plug for me, Im selling a M40a5 build manual.
I must apologize for my lack of enthusiasm about the sling topic . loll. I started talking about it a few months ago, and like Bolt_Trash said, interest is low and I keep forgetting about it.
I said to Bolt_Trash that I would measure and document the original cotton and nylons slings that I have. Including the smelly ones
Will provide some more info later today.
. loll. I started talking about it a few months ago, and like Bolt_Trash said, interest is low and I keep forgetting about it.I said to Bolt_Trash that I would measure and document the original cotton and nylons slings that I have. Including the smelly ones
Will provide some more info later today.
As much attention to detail as I have put into leaving these rifles completely original, I have to admit. I for some reason never put allot of thought into the slings...lol.
Never did I think that it would turn into a half page of questions and comments. Just another testament as to how much passion there is shared in these sticks. It has definitely become an absolute sickness for me....lol
After reading these. I immediately went down to check mine. My rifle with the satin Black scope pictured above has the cotton sling. Definitely old and signs of extreme use. Very faint black markings on it that is unreadable.
The rifle with the Green Anno'd contract scope has (as in the pics above now..."had") nylon sling. Again, old and extremely worn. No visible markings. I have since switched it out with another old cotton one (no markings) that I had in my box of M40/700 parts.
The cotton sling on the Rifle with the green scope measures 41 1/2" completely undone from the metal tip to the two slot buckle.
The Rifle with the Black Satin scope measures 45" completely undone from the metal tip to the two slot buckle. Not sure why the variance. Maybe just shrinkage from the years of use and exposure to the elements since the are cotton?
I havent noticed but I am assuming by the convo. that these rifles should and did have the cotton slings on them went sent from Remington to the Corp.?
Never did I think that it would turn into a half page of questions and comments. Just another testament as to how much passion there is shared in these sticks. It has definitely become an absolute sickness for me....lol
After reading these. I immediately went down to check mine. My rifle with the satin Black scope pictured above has the cotton sling. Definitely old and signs of extreme use. Very faint black markings on it that is unreadable.
The rifle with the Green Anno'd contract scope has (as in the pics above now..."had") nylon sling. Again, old and extremely worn. No visible markings. I have since switched it out with another old cotton one (no markings) that I had in my box of M40/700 parts.
The cotton sling on the Rifle with the green scope measures 41 1/2" completely undone from the metal tip to the two slot buckle.
The Rifle with the Black Satin scope measures 45" completely undone from the metal tip to the two slot buckle. Not sure why the variance. Maybe just shrinkage from the years of use and exposure to the elements since the are cotton?
I havent noticed but I am assuming by the convo. that these rifles should and did have the cotton slings on them went sent from Remington to the Corp.?
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Not to throw this topic into a tail spin, but I as well as the rest of you have read numerous publications that have talked about the sling swivel spacing on the M700 stocks.
Everything I have read in the past states that the sling swivels are drilled 27" apart....Wellllllll,.......both of my stocks are measuring 25" from the center of the swivel to the center of the swivel.
Like many, I would question authenticity. Although, I acquired these stocks from a highly respected individual within our community that personally acquired them from the RTE shop in the early 80's.
Both have the correct under but plate markings as Marty's as well as rack #'s and the last 4 serial#'s stamped in the pomals (I am aware that this could have been done on any repo). But I trust and highly respect this individual.
With this being said. Anyone have any other idea on the variance in measurements?
Everything I have read in the past states that the sling swivels are drilled 27" apart....Wellllllll,.......both of my stocks are measuring 25" from the center of the swivel to the center of the swivel.
Like many, I would question authenticity. Although, I acquired these stocks from a highly respected individual within our community that personally acquired them from the RTE shop in the early 80's.
Both have the correct under but plate markings as Marty's as well as rack #'s and the last 4 serial#'s stamped in the pomals (I am aware that this could have been done on any repo). But I trust and highly respect this individual.
With this being said. Anyone have any other idea on the variance in measurements?
different stock manufacturers? I know of one stock that was pulled out of the packaging, it was never on a rifle. so I imagine there was contracted stocks in supply. Didn't one of the stock manufacturers that Remington used burn down?
Stocks, Slings and other such stuff...
rlm8541,
It's just these sort of details that maybe most, but as little as some of us are looking for answers on. We've covered details, like this, on swivels, butt plates, bolt shrouds, butt plate screws, manufacturing sources, etc.; providing answers and even confirming, with photos, information that cannot be found anywhere else, but here on this forum.
Culpeper did a take-off measurement on the swivels on his SSA and contributed a 26 inch swivel measurement. (Note: Correction from 27 inch-08.07.2014) You've measured your original Gen.-1's at 25 inches, on centers. The only way to establish 'facts' or 'variation,' is to compile this information, in one place, which makes these questions worthwhile and all of the contributions, like yours, Culpeper's, MescaBug's and other's, significant.
If there is any doubt that as little as a 2 inch difference, may prove significant, then the on-centers swivel measurement and corresponding sling length used, makes the point. So, I'm going to press you for a few more measurements from your original Gen.-1 M40 stocks. If you would, measure the following for us:
1.) Measurement from the center-line of the bottom metal front bolt -to- the tip of the forearm (measured along the bottom of the stock to the straight-edge of a small steel 'square' at the tip [most accurate, right?])
2.) Front and Rear Sling Swivel on-center measurements, from the bottom face of the butt plate and forearm tip, respectively.
3.) If possible, the thickness of the forearm at the point it curves down to terminate at the tip (top of a stock side to bottom.) The forearm of the M40 is really pretty trim and having this measurement, as well as 1.) above, can help to make profiles more accurate.
In my haste, to lock down the proper length sling, that would look like your cotton web sling, when dressed, I focused on the on-center measurement and failed to take into account that the swivels lay sideways and the added length of the attached quick-clip. So mathematically, taking those into account:
Swivels On-Centers @25 inches. Off-sets: Swivels @.325 ea. X2 = .650 inches and the Quick Clip @1.550 inches = 22.8 inches X 2 = 45.6 inches.
If your swivels are at 26 inches and the off-sets are constants, a comparable dressed sling length is 47.6 inches.
If your swivels are at 27 inches and the off-sets are constants, a comparable dressed sling length is 49.6 inches.
Short is still short, though.
rlm8541,
It's just these sort of details that maybe most, but as little as some of us are looking for answers on. We've covered details, like this, on swivels, butt plates, bolt shrouds, butt plate screws, manufacturing sources, etc.; providing answers and even confirming, with photos, information that cannot be found anywhere else, but here on this forum.
Culpeper did a take-off measurement on the swivels on his SSA and contributed a 26 inch swivel measurement. (Note: Correction from 27 inch-08.07.2014) You've measured your original Gen.-1's at 25 inches, on centers. The only way to establish 'facts' or 'variation,' is to compile this information, in one place, which makes these questions worthwhile and all of the contributions, like yours, Culpeper's, MescaBug's and other's, significant.
If there is any doubt that as little as a 2 inch difference, may prove significant, then the on-centers swivel measurement and corresponding sling length used, makes the point. So, I'm going to press you for a few more measurements from your original Gen.-1 M40 stocks. If you would, measure the following for us:
1.) Measurement from the center-line of the bottom metal front bolt -to- the tip of the forearm (measured along the bottom of the stock to the straight-edge of a small steel 'square' at the tip [most accurate, right?])
2.) Front and Rear Sling Swivel on-center measurements, from the bottom face of the butt plate and forearm tip, respectively.
3.) If possible, the thickness of the forearm at the point it curves down to terminate at the tip (top of a stock side to bottom.) The forearm of the M40 is really pretty trim and having this measurement, as well as 1.) above, can help to make profiles more accurate.
In my haste, to lock down the proper length sling, that would look like your cotton web sling, when dressed, I focused on the on-center measurement and failed to take into account that the swivels lay sideways and the added length of the attached quick-clip. So mathematically, taking those into account:
Swivels On-Centers @25 inches. Off-sets: Swivels @.325 ea. X2 = .650 inches and the Quick Clip @1.550 inches = 22.8 inches X 2 = 45.6 inches.
If your swivels are at 26 inches and the off-sets are constants, a comparable dressed sling length is 47.6 inches.
If your swivels are at 27 inches and the off-sets are constants, a comparable dressed sling length is 49.6 inches.
Short is still short, though.
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Will measure swivel-to-swivel on my stock as well.
Should there be any doubt, just look at "tokiwartooth's" persistence in replicating the anodizing finishes and his work towards replicating the Accu-Range reticle for the Redfield Gen.1 and Gen.2 scope, or "MescaBug's" purchase of a 'possible/probable original' M40 stock, sight-unseen, by a 'proxy-buyer,' or "Culpeper's" M40 specification research, or your dedication to the collection of original parts inorder to assemble them into what I'd call 'near-restorations' of the M40's.
I'm more inclined to view this as an 'incurable disease.'
Another unknown looking for an answer. Considering that it's known that Remington delivered rifles, at some point, to the Corp, without scopes, it's possible they both did and didn't provide slings. Disruptions in the supply chain, or amendments to the original contract articles giving the Corp more direct control of parts receipt and assembly?
Based on documented photos, we see both cotton web and 1907 leather slings, in use. Did one type actually come first? In the grand scheme of things, the answer (if there even is one) really doesn't make one type, or the other, either more, or less, 'period correct.' I focused on the cotton web sling, only because that's what I wanted and that decision opened a whole new can of worms.
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Well fellas, my eyes are tired. I just read 23 pages of passion and dedication from you all and now the fire I had to start an M40 build is burning hotter than ever. My great grandfather gave me a Remington 721 in 30-06 when I was 13 years old. I have hunted both caribou and dall sheep with it, but have long since retired it due to its sentimental value. I refinished the stock when I was still a teenager and had no idea what I was doing when I took the Redfield Accu range scope off and stuck it in a box. I have no idea where that scope ended up, could've ended up in the trash for all I can remember. Same goes for leather sling that I so foolishly removed and discarded for some rubbery camp thing. That rifle will always be in my safe until it's handed down later in life.
I want a challenge, I want a to build a tribute to my great grandfather and his passion for the woods and shooting. That being said I'm ready to get started and hopefully can get it accomplished with help from all of you here. I want the rifle to be a user, not to sit on the shelf to look at. I'd like to use original parts where I can, but I won't hold up the build if I can find a good reproduction, or if an original part is too high dollar for my liking. The one thing I do really want to be accurate is the right year action. Maybe that's where I can start with some help. I'll buy one today if I can find one! You gotta start somewhere, and I quickly snatched up a buttplate at a gun show. However living in Alaska gun shows are few and far between so that can make it more challenging.
Not to ramble, but thanks again for getting me pumped up to take on this task, and if anyone can point me to an action for sale I'd be forever grateful.
Matt
I want a challenge, I want a to build a tribute to my great grandfather and his passion for the woods and shooting. That being said I'm ready to get started and hopefully can get it accomplished with help from all of you here. I want the rifle to be a user, not to sit on the shelf to look at. I'd like to use original parts where I can, but I won't hold up the build if I can find a good reproduction, or if an original part is too high dollar for my liking. The one thing I do really want to be accurate is the right year action. Maybe that's where I can start with some help. I'll buy one today if I can find one! You gotta start somewhere, and I quickly snatched up a buttplate at a gun show. However living in Alaska gun shows are few and far between so that can make it more challenging.
Not to ramble, but thanks again for getting me pumped up to take on this task, and if anyone can point me to an action for sale I'd be forever grateful.
Matt
Welcome "deadwolf,"
You're at the edge of the pool, but there's really no 'low' end. Now, you can 'overlook' a few details and obtain a certain 'look,' but it won't be 'accurate,' or a true replication of the rifle. For instance, you don't need a 6 digit serial number (there's photos of a later 7 digit M40 on Pg.14,) you don't have to have the receiver clip-slotted, or have "U.S." stamped/engraved on the receiver or, "7.62 NATO" on the barrel. You can use the 513T wood thread swivels for both the front and rear sling swivels, or maybe the newer Wichita swivel set , a newer Remington barrel with a 'close-enough' contour and even a Leupold mount and rings and so-on and so-on. You don't even have to build a .308 Win./7.62 NATO, if a .223 WIN./5.56 NATO suits your fancy.
If, on the other hand, you're driven by accuracy and keeping in mind that your build is a 'clone' and that you're not restoring an original, then your attention to detail becomes more focused and your decisions narrower, with respect to what you'll find 'acceptable.' For example, deciding you want to do a Type-2/Gen.-2 M40 build broadens the selection of available parts and/or parts that you'd have to exchange (i.e. trigger and safety group and bolt shroud,) to do a Gen.-1/Type-1.
Therein lies the quandary... both ends of the pool are deep and the deeper you get yourself into the details of this rifle, the more accurate and true to the original you'll want it to be. Do have to say, that a .223/5.56 M40 clone that shoots 'bug-hole' groups is a cool project.
Welcome to the pool.
You're at the edge of the pool, but there's really no 'low' end. Now, you can 'overlook' a few details and obtain a certain 'look,' but it won't be 'accurate,' or a true replication of the rifle. For instance, you don't need a 6 digit serial number (there's photos of a later 7 digit M40 on Pg.14,) you don't have to have the receiver clip-slotted, or have "U.S." stamped/engraved on the receiver or, "7.62 NATO" on the barrel. You can use the 513T wood thread swivels for both the front and rear sling swivels, or maybe the newer Wichita swivel set , a newer Remington barrel with a 'close-enough' contour and even a Leupold mount and rings and so-on and so-on. You don't even have to build a .308 Win./7.62 NATO, if a .223 WIN./5.56 NATO suits your fancy.
If, on the other hand, you're driven by accuracy and keeping in mind that your build is a 'clone' and that you're not restoring an original, then your attention to detail becomes more focused and your decisions narrower, with respect to what you'll find 'acceptable.' For example, deciding you want to do a Type-2/Gen.-2 M40 build broadens the selection of available parts and/or parts that you'd have to exchange (i.e. trigger and safety group and bolt shroud,) to do a Gen.-1/Type-1.
Therein lies the quandary... both ends of the pool are deep and the deeper you get yourself into the details of this rifle, the more accurate and true to the original you'll want it to be. Do have to say, that a .223/5.56 M40 clone that shoots 'bug-hole' groups is a cool project.
Welcome to the pool.
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A 6 digit M700 action and/or receiver will bring a premium, but you don't have to wait until you find an action, or just a receiver, to start collecting the other parts; ie. butt plate screws, bottom metal, sling swivels, sling(s), scope mount and rings, scope, magazine and follower, trigger and safety group, bolt, bolt shroud, recoil lug, stock and Remington varmit contour barrel. Post a list of your parts 'needs' - there may be some 'spare parts' to be found, right here.
You've got your work cut out for you. Good hunting!!
You've got your work cut out for you. Good hunting!!
What would a six digit serial receiver bring ? I picked a complete rifle for a build but may go with a custom instead.
As suggested, you could start, here, by posting a list of your part wants/needs or, browsing and digging on eBay (rings, mounts, sling swivels, scopes, bottom metal, barrel take-offs, trigger, safety group, slings) Gunbroker (rings, bases, scopes) NUMRICH ARMS (stock, sling swivels, bolt shroud) to name a few, SHILEN Barrel Co., researching Parkerizing outfits in your area, gunsmiths, gun shops, pawn shops and so-forth.
You can always change from wanting to build one Gen./Type of M40 to another, which is not entirely uncommon, but usually you decide on one, or the other and that will dictate some of your parts selections and/or the suggestions you receive.
________________________________________________________________________________
If it's a SA, it looks like you guys need to communicate with each other, if one of you haven't done so already.
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Hi Bolt Trash,
Your comments regarding build choices really came home to me recently when Marty posted pictures of his gen 1 & 2 M40's.
I thought I had it nailed-7 digit action,CM barrel,60's bottom metal,Redfield 2nd gen base & rings + Redfield 2nd gen scope (sans turret caps) & Numrich stock.
Then came the realisation that I didn't have the correct stock for a 2nd gen M40,actually not even correct enough for a 1st gen stock & i'd also just aquired a 1st gen Redfield.
I've a lead on an eye wateringly expensive 6 digit action & am foolishly thinking of building both types.
But for the life of me i'm damned if I can locate a 2nd gen stock.
Now before anyone suggests CRS,i've been in contact with them & they do a 1st gen stock (patterned from one of Marty's) which i'm still contemplating.
Anyone any ideas?
Your comments regarding build choices really came home to me recently when Marty posted pictures of his gen 1 & 2 M40's.
I thought I had it nailed-7 digit action,CM barrel,60's bottom metal,Redfield 2nd gen base & rings + Redfield 2nd gen scope (sans turret caps) & Numrich stock.
Then came the realisation that I didn't have the correct stock for a 2nd gen M40,actually not even correct enough for a 1st gen stock & i'd also just aquired a 1st gen Redfield.
I've a lead on an eye wateringly expensive 6 digit action & am foolishly thinking of building both types.
But for the life of me i'm damned if I can locate a 2nd gen stock.
Now before anyone suggests CRS,i've been in contact with them & they do a 1st gen stock (patterned from one of Marty's) which i'm still contemplating.
Anyone any ideas?
LOL. Just wait... I've moved on to an M40A1. Just sent my receiver out to be built into a rifle. I really wanted to go with the Quantico build that twomanattack offers, but it's a premium on top of an already expensive endeavor.
Macca,
Here's a copy of my CRS correspondence:
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hi CRS,
Happy New Year!
I'm writing to inquire about your M40 stock. If possible, could you please send me a couple of digital photos of the L & R profiles, of your offering.
Thanks in advance, for your time and reply.
Regards, Bolt_Trash
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Cindy Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
Morning Bolt_Trash
Here are some pics of the 2nd generation pattern that we have. If interested give us a call.
Thanks
Jesse
C.R.S.
814-349-2403
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You've got me on this one. Somewhere back in this forum, I posted photos of a CRS stock, which they had emailed to me. In the content and body of their email (see above,) THEY represented that it was a TYPE-2 M40 STOCK. In turn, that was the information that I posted. Regrettably, I deleted the photos in my files. I actually received a "VISITOR" private message about this very topic, last week, so there are people, not even on Sniper Hide, who are mining these posts for information and details.
The principal differences that I see when looking at the M40 stocks, is that the Type-1 had a very defined pistol-grip and is very trim through the forearm. Even with a medium-heavy varmit contour barrel, I read somewhere that it weighed, without scope, sling and ammo, only 9-1/2 pounds. Not sure, but it might actually be 9-1/2 pounds with the scope. The Type-2, on the other hand has a less defined pistol-grip and appears thicker through the forearm. In comparison, I have a .416 Rigby with a 23-1/2 inch sporter barrel that without, scope, sling and ammo, weighs that much. The M40 Type-1 stocks were pretty trim sticks and I remember reading, somewhere, that long duration range sessions weren't the norm, as recoil with the metal butt plate was pretty 'sharp.' Adding some weight through the butt stock and forearm, by leaving some wood, may have improved overall handling. We certainly see those features in the M40A1.
Regardless of the reproduction stock that you purchase, NUMRICH, whichever/whatever, there's work a-plenty to be done to it. It's been noted how excellent the inletting is in the NUMRICH stock, that it has the brass pin and the curvature in the butt for accepting the 16601-X butt plates, BUT it's not a true M40 stock. It's a copy of the stock that Remington used on it's M700 Police Sniper model, a non-commercial Law Enforcement offering. The forearm is substantially longer and wider and the butt plate is longer and wider. I've seen photos of Type-1 M40's built around the NUMRICH stock, by professional gunsmiths/stockers and you cannot tell the difference from original Type-1 M40's, so the shapes and contours can, indeed, be duplicated.
I think I commented, one time, that leaving the top line of the buttstock untouched, placing the 16601-X butt plate at the top and removing/trimming the excess wood along the bottom of the stock, from the toe into the grip would give a higher defined/'longer' looking pistol grip. Conversely, centering the butt plate, or placing it at the bottom of the toe, and removing more wood along the top line, would give you a more highly defined Monte Carlo cheek piece and no change along the bottom of the stock from the toe into the grip. There's still plenty of wood shaping to be done after that, thinning out the butt stock and forearm.
I hope some of this makes sense.
Other mileages may vary.
Here's a copy of my CRS correspondence:
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hi CRS,
Happy New Year!
I'm writing to inquire about your M40 stock. If possible, could you please send me a couple of digital photos of the L & R profiles, of your offering.
Thanks in advance, for your time and reply.
Regards, Bolt_Trash
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Cindy Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
Morning Bolt_Trash
Here are some pics of the 2nd generation pattern that we have. If interested give us a call.
Thanks
Jesse
C.R.S.
814-349-2403
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You've got me on this one. Somewhere back in this forum, I posted photos of a CRS stock, which they had emailed to me. In the content and body of their email (see above,) THEY represented that it was a TYPE-2 M40 STOCK. In turn, that was the information that I posted. Regrettably, I deleted the photos in my files. I actually received a "VISITOR" private message about this very topic, last week, so there are people, not even on Sniper Hide, who are mining these posts for information and details.
The principal differences that I see when looking at the M40 stocks, is that the Type-1 had a very defined pistol-grip and is very trim through the forearm. Even with a medium-heavy varmit contour barrel, I read somewhere that it weighed, without scope, sling and ammo, only 9-1/2 pounds. Not sure, but it might actually be 9-1/2 pounds with the scope. The Type-2, on the other hand has a less defined pistol-grip and appears thicker through the forearm. In comparison, I have a .416 Rigby with a 23-1/2 inch sporter barrel that without, scope, sling and ammo, weighs that much. The M40 Type-1 stocks were pretty trim sticks and I remember reading, somewhere, that long duration range sessions weren't the norm, as recoil with the metal butt plate was pretty 'sharp.' Adding some weight through the butt stock and forearm, by leaving some wood, may have improved overall handling. We certainly see those features in the M40A1.
Regardless of the reproduction stock that you purchase, NUMRICH, whichever/whatever, there's work a-plenty to be done to it. It's been noted how excellent the inletting is in the NUMRICH stock, that it has the brass pin and the curvature in the butt for accepting the 16601-X butt plates, BUT it's not a true M40 stock. It's a copy of the stock that Remington used on it's M700 Police Sniper model, a non-commercial Law Enforcement offering. The forearm is substantially longer and wider and the butt plate is longer and wider. I've seen photos of Type-1 M40's built around the NUMRICH stock, by professional gunsmiths/stockers and you cannot tell the difference from original Type-1 M40's, so the shapes and contours can, indeed, be duplicated.
I think I commented, one time, that leaving the top line of the buttstock untouched, placing the 16601-X butt plate at the top and removing/trimming the excess wood along the bottom of the stock, from the toe into the grip would give a higher defined/'longer' looking pistol grip. Conversely, centering the butt plate, or placing it at the bottom of the toe, and removing more wood along the top line, would give you a more highly defined Monte Carlo cheek piece and no change along the bottom of the stock from the toe into the grip. There's still plenty of wood shaping to be done after that, thinning out the butt stock and forearm.
I hope some of this makes sense.
Other mileages may vary.
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You do know...that
some of you other M40 "aficionados" are free to jump in here. Questions re: 6 digit or 7 digit valuations and the like, or stock contours, for instance, are looking for folks with experience in those areas or even owners of original issue components and/or rifles. Surely the answers can't be that hard to divulge , or so proprietary, in content, that they require special clearance levels.
some of you other M40 "aficionados" are free to jump in here. Questions re: 6 digit or 7 digit valuations and the like, or stock contours, for instance, are looking for folks with experience in those areas or even owners of original issue components and/or rifles. Surely the answers can't be that hard to divulge , or so proprietary, in content, that they require special clearance levels.
LOL!
That was me sending you a message-I signed with my name rather than my user name.
Hmmm,I've already mated the butt plate to the stock but I'll look into reprofiling the butt to make a more defined pistol grip.I've got to do something as it has a too large countersink for the swivels to cover.
That was me sending you a message-I signed with my name rather than my user name.
Hmmm,I've already mated the butt plate to the stock but I'll look into reprofiling the butt to make a more defined pistol grip.I've got to do something as it has a too large countersink for the swivels to cover.
Not sure, without a photo, that I understand what you're describing, but I'll give it a shot. Go back, into the forum and you'll note, that the threaded posts of the front and rear swivels of the M40 were 'sleeved' by larger steel 'inserts' into the stock, which they shouldered up against to keep the swivels from gouging the wood. So, like a washer only with more depth.
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