So....have you ever wondered what a brand new, freshly hatched, matte-finished, second generation Redfield Accu-Range would look like? Send your scope to Tokiwartooth and find out. 
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So....have you ever wondered what a brand new, freshly hatched, matte-finished, second generation Redfield Accu-Range would look like? Send your scope to Tokiwartooth and find out.
Did you get it? PM'ed you on m14forum.com. Let me know.
For the record, they are "satin" finish. The AR TEL is more matte finish. Replaced your zoom ring, turret base, zoom thumb screw, turret caps with spares I had. Used the ocular assembly and glass from the other scope you sent.
Yup. Just replied. Great job! That was the last piece of the puzzle. Now if I would just get off my butt and finish the stock work, I could put this rifle together!
... Now if I would just get off my butt and finish the stock work, I could put this rifle together!
Not for noth'n, but you're behind in your chores and your email.
Macca's CRS M40 Type-1 and Type-2 follow-up...
Photos only. Macca can 'quote' this post and elaborate on his communications with CRS, in another post. The 'Type; ID's might need to be amended- the pistol grip with the 'tighter'/closer curve would be the correct Type-1 and the more open grip a Type-2
Thanks Macca for dig'n-in and doing this follow-up.
Photos only. Macca can 'quote' this post and elaborate on his communications with CRS, in another post. The 'Type; ID's might need to be amended- the pistol grip with the 'tighter'/closer curve would be the correct Type-1 and the more open grip a Type-2
Thanks Macca for dig'n-in and doing this follow-up.
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My apologies, Mossyrock, I have you confused with someone else, on the email thing... but, please read my post 1,199. I know there is a difference, but I'd like to see what the difference actually is.
I am? What did I miss?
GunBlack for parkerizing services... in the Northeast
Shuff's is well known and his reputation is well deserved, but I was looking for a vendor, with a comparable reputation and one that could handle a complete M700 barreled action (Shuff's can't,) who was on the east coast and closer to my gunsmith and stocker. I contacted them via their web site's internal mail and did not keep a copy of my correspondence, but the content of their response was very complete. I tried, but the green parkerizing finish, regrettably, was out of the question. I'm going with this outfit...
GunBlack
GunBlack.com - Black Oxide and Manganese Phosphate
Good morning Mr. Bolt_Trash, and thank you for your interest in GunBlack's services. The term Parkerizing can mean both Zinc Phosphate and Manganese Phosphate. The United States Military has always preferred Manganese over Zinc for small arms. The same goes for Remington Arms in Ilion NY. Both Remington and the Department of Defense are important (and big) customers for GunBlack. Manganese and Zinc Phosphate have always been a medium-dark gray in color. Green tints in the coating came from poor chemistry during war-time production and elements in cosmoline and other heavy grease reacting with the coating over a long time. Some shops use pigments in their oil rinse to color the Parkerize coating but that does not conform to the Military Specification, so we do not provide it. The chromic acid contains hexavalent chromium which is nasty, nasty, nasty. It is carcinogenic, toxic and all around bad news. I do not know why it is still in the Mil Spec because the DOD also requires contractors like GunBlack to NOT use it in our process, for any components that come in to contact with human skin. Mil Spec Parkerize (Manganese Phosphate) is the correct coating for your Remington Sniper rifle and a superior firearm finish to Zinc Phosphate. Zinc Phosphate is usually used for automotive parts.
a) The barreled action can be coated as a single unit. This is also the way we coat rifles for Remington.
c) Turnaround time is less than 2 weeks.
d) Thank you for the opportunity to quote you.
Best regards,
Steve Kempf
GunBlack, Inc.
[email protected]
GunBlack.com - Black Oxide and Manganese Phosphate
Just a note, that I did, in fact, contact some other NE outfits that advertised providing parkerizing services and other than Shuff's, who is a consummate professional, only two (2) in five (5) actually even bothered to respond.
Shuff's is well known and his reputation is well deserved, but I was looking for a vendor, with a comparable reputation and one that could handle a complete M700 barreled action (Shuff's can't,) who was on the east coast and closer to my gunsmith and stocker. I contacted them via their web site's internal mail and did not keep a copy of my correspondence, but the content of their response was very complete. I tried, but the green parkerizing finish, regrettably, was out of the question. I'm going with this outfit...
GunBlack
GunBlack.com - Black Oxide and Manganese Phosphate
Good morning Mr. Bolt_Trash, and thank you for your interest in GunBlack's services. The term Parkerizing can mean both Zinc Phosphate and Manganese Phosphate. The United States Military has always preferred Manganese over Zinc for small arms. The same goes for Remington Arms in Ilion NY. Both Remington and the Department of Defense are important (and big) customers for GunBlack. Manganese and Zinc Phosphate have always been a medium-dark gray in color. Green tints in the coating came from poor chemistry during war-time production and elements in cosmoline and other heavy grease reacting with the coating over a long time. Some shops use pigments in their oil rinse to color the Parkerize coating but that does not conform to the Military Specification, so we do not provide it. The chromic acid contains hexavalent chromium which is nasty, nasty, nasty. It is carcinogenic, toxic and all around bad news. I do not know why it is still in the Mil Spec because the DOD also requires contractors like GunBlack to NOT use it in our process, for any components that come in to contact with human skin. Mil Spec Parkerize (Manganese Phosphate) is the correct coating for your Remington Sniper rifle and a superior firearm finish to Zinc Phosphate. Zinc Phosphate is usually used for automotive parts.
a) The barreled action can be coated as a single unit. This is also the way we coat rifles for Remington.
c) Turnaround time is less than 2 weeks.
d) Thank you for the opportunity to quote you.
Best regards,
Steve Kempf
GunBlack, Inc.
[email protected]
GunBlack.com - Black Oxide and Manganese Phosphate
Just a note, that I did, in fact, contact some other NE outfits that advertised providing parkerizing services and other than Shuff's, who is a consummate professional, only two (2) in five (5) actually even bothered to respond.
Mr. Bolt_Trash, at your request:
.141" high, .715" long
.141" high, .715" long
Mossyrock's 7.62 NATO barrel stamp... Part III The Findings, a/k/a The REAL Measurements
Mossyrock,
I'm going to submit your name to the Pope. I don't know what he'll do with it, but it can't hurt. Who knows, maybe a holiday... if you don't mess it up?
Letter / Number Height: 0.141 inches
Stamping Length: 0.715 inches
Distance from front of recoil lug: 0.177 inches (no change)
Well done !! And, you feel better...
Mossyrock,
I'm going to submit your name to the Pope. I don't know what he'll do with it, but it can't hurt. Who knows, maybe a holiday... if you don't mess it up?
Letter / Number Height: 0.141 inches
Stamping Length: 0.715 inches
Distance from front of recoil lug: 0.177 inches (no change)
Well done !! And, you feel better...
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Mossyrock... any photos ??
Mossyrock,
BTW, how is the work on your stock coming ?? Any photos on 'toki...'s' Gen.-2 scope work that you can show us ??
I'll submit another letter...
Mossyrock,
BTW, how is the work on your stock coming ?? Any photos on 'toki...'s' Gen.-2 scope work that you can show us ??
I'll submit another letter...
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The stock is at about a 98% solution, shape wise. The M40 stock pics with measurements that were posted the other day were exactly what I needed. I am doing the final sanding, down to 220 grit. If the warden gives me any free time today, I MIGHT be close to applying the first coat of finish. Exactly what that finish will be, I haven't yet decided. It will be an oil of some sort, but I am still debating the merits of BLO, Danish Oil, and Teak Oil.
I should be able to get some pics of the scope this afternoon. I also plan on dropping the barreled action off for Parkerizing. Stand by for news.....
I should be able to get some pics of the scope this afternoon. I also plan on dropping the barreled action off for Parkerizing. Stand by for news.....
Real Milk Paint Pure Tung Oil is a great finish offers a bit more water resistance than BLO. Easy to use, just rub it in in small coats like you are trying to create enough friction to get the stock to catch fire. I use it on Garands and 03s. Tung oil was an approved substitute for BLO prior to WWII. It wont oxidize red like BLO and will become shiny if the coats build up. You can knock the shine off with a synthetic buff pad.
So....have you ever wondered what a brand new, freshly hatched, matte-finished, second generation Redfield Accu-Range would look like? Send your scope to Tokiwartooth and find out.
I use their dark variety. They add carbon to it.
Greenie out of the tank.
Here is an M84 I just repaired and restored, if anyone is interested. It was a sea green painted disaster when I got it. Cloudy, water vapor and sealant filled, missing glass, etc.
Here is an M84 I just repaired and restored, if anyone is interested. It was a sea green painted disaster when I got it. Cloudy, water vapor and sealant filled, missing glass, etc.
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Toki, the satin black Redfield is very difficult to photograph. Everything is such a uniform shae of black that there is very little contrast to show the words, numbers and details. Of course, it would probably work better if I broke out a REAL camera instead of my cell phone.
I'm using a Galaxy S5. Excellent camera. iPhone cameras are crap.Toki, the satin black Redfield is very difficult to photograph. Everything is such a uniform shae of black that there is very little contrast to show the words, numbers and details. Of course, it would probably work better if I broke out a REAL camera instead of my cell phone.
I think this green is the color, although I will try a more dilute dye mixture. It's much better than the OD Green, which in my opinion, has too much blue undertones.
I'm getting good results with my current electrolyte bath, and I've had no failures in my last 5 runs, especially with the cooler weather.
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Toki, the satin black Redfield is very difficult to photograph. Everything is such a uniform shae of black that there is very little contrast to show the words, numbers and details. Of course, it would probably work better if I broke out a REAL camera instead of my cell phone.
Shades of a Redfield Gen.-1...
'toki...', Are the scopes finished and/or appearing to be a more yellow gold, or even a gold-brown color, representative of this shade of 'green,' when oxidized? The reason I ask is, that you've spent more time than anyone I know researching, specifically, these finishes!! I've got some photos, in my file library, that just leave me confused. I do like this recent shade of 'green' you've shown here.
I'm still following your Redfield Accu-Range thread, with considerable interest and hope you've still got me on your waiting list!
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...rosshair-redfield-m40-accurange-redfield.html
'toki...', Are the scopes finished and/or appearing to be a more yellow gold, or even a gold-brown color, representative of this shade of 'green,' when oxidized? The reason I ask is, that you've spent more time than anyone I know researching, specifically, these finishes!! I've got some photos, in my file library, that just leave me confused. I do like this recent shade of 'green' you've shown here.
I'm still following your Redfield Accu-Range thread, with considerable interest and hope you've still got me on your waiting list!
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...rosshair-redfield-m40-accurange-redfield.html
D
Deleted member 10043
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The only way to appreciate the work is to see it. Cameras, even a good one, won't pick up the true colors because it is such a smooth dyed reflective and refractive curved surface. A professional photographer maybe. The best thing to do is to go off the reviews for those have had the service done and get one. Personally, I like the Olive Green he used to do. Any green that is close will be just fine because the sun is going to change the colors on the different pieces anyway. You will end up with a different color for each piece of the scope after it has seen enough hot sunlight. There never was nor will there ever be two exactly alike. The Marines kept these in the sun a lot. To mimic that one would have to put the scope up on the roof and rotate it once in a while. Leave it up there all summer or until well done... When it is done it is not going to matter much what shade of green it started out as.
When it is done it is not going to matter much what shade of green it started out as. Last edited by a moderator:
Correct. Different alloys end up different shades, hence why the originals have differentiation in parts oxidation. A degree in dye temp. Thickness of ano layer buildup. It all affects color.The only way to appreciate the work is to see it. Cameras, even a good one, won't pick up the true colors because it is such a smooth dyed reflective and refractive curved surface. A professional photographer maybe. The best thing to do is to go off the reviews for those have had the service done and get one. Personally, I like the Olive Green he used to do. Any green that is close will be just fine because the sun is going to change the colors on the different pieces anyway. You will end up with a different color for each piece of the scope after it has seen enough hot sunlight. There never was nor will there ever be two exactly alike. The Marines kept these in the sun a lot. To mimic that one would have to put the scope up on the roof and rotate it once in a while. Leave it up there all summer or until well done...
Heres a few pictures of my Satin anodized, compared to the AR TELS I've seen it does not seem as dark, but the serial numbers are all pretty close.
"toki..." I REALLY LIKE this paler shade of green you're developing... and, you can see the obvious differences in the alloy content, with this color.
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Gotta agree with Bolt_trash, that looks good
D
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And that is an old finish. I've seen black ones turn bluish purple with enough sun patina on it.
There is no true black. The black dye is actually dark, dark purple.
Redfields and colors...
I don't think there is any confusion that the original 'green' anodizing changed color when exposed to direct sunlight and that the different alloy contents produced different colors/shades. The fact remains, that even original scopes that did not see much, if any, field use, did change color, over time.
Most, if not all, of our discussions have been centered around the 'colors' that "toki..." has developed and their relative appeal to our perception of how we would 'want' OUR Redfields to look like. Speaking for myself, the 'deep green' that Culpeper has on his scope didn't appeal to me, but as "toki...'s" color development moved toward the gold and brown shades, most notably his "distressed anodizing technique," the color shade started shifting toward a color that I was most familiar with... an oxidized shade.
As I see it, the various 'oxidized' shades/colors were familiar, but not a correct "production' color/shade and that, I think, has always been "toki...'s" goal, in this process. This most recent paler green color formula and repeatable/predictable color (within reason) is, I think, a color/shade that is truer to the original 'production' shade/color.
error in posting pic. I'll try again.
Greenie out of the tank.
I don't think there is any confusion that the original 'green' anodizing changed color when exposed to direct sunlight and that the different alloy contents produced different colors/shades. The fact remains, that even original scopes that did not see much, if any, field use, did change color, over time.
Most, if not all, of our discussions have been centered around the 'colors' that "toki..." has developed and their relative appeal to our perception of how we would 'want' OUR Redfields to look like. Speaking for myself, the 'deep green' that Culpeper has on his scope didn't appeal to me, but as "toki...'s" color development moved toward the gold and brown shades, most notably his "distressed anodizing technique," the color shade started shifting toward a color that I was most familiar with... an oxidized shade.
As I see it, the various 'oxidized' shades/colors were familiar, but not a correct "production' color/shade and that, I think, has always been "toki...'s" goal, in this process. This most recent paler green color formula and repeatable/predictable color (within reason) is, I think, a color/shade that is truer to the original 'production' shade/color.
Agree with above comments. Thing is, I dont believe there is a 1st Gen in existence that has been kept from the sunlight and shows its true original color. That being said, it would be hard to replicate the exact same color. I think Toki has nailed it pretty good though.
Personaly, I prefer the 'distressed' green with shades of brown and gold.
I still dont fully understand why they choose that color... From Senich's book: "Rather than an attempt to “camouflage” the scope, according to Redfield records, “the external finish was matted and colored to match the parkerized finish of the Remington M700 rifles on which they were mounted.”"
Well, a fresh parkerized finish is far from being green!! At least, not green as we know it. The Green Redfield sticks out like a sore thumb on top of the rifle.... Makes no sense.
Personaly, I prefer the 'distressed' green with shades of brown and gold.
I still dont fully understand why they choose that color... From Senich's book: "Rather than an attempt to “camouflage” the scope, according to Redfield records, “the external finish was matted and colored to match the parkerized finish of the Remington M700 rifles on which they were mounted.”"
Well, a fresh parkerized finish is far from being green!! At least, not green as we know it. The Green Redfield sticks out like a sore thumb on top of the rifle.... Makes no sense.
D
Deleted member 10043
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There are plenty of black Redfield scopes from that period that are just that, black. As been mentioned, it is going to be hard to find an original green redfield in the same condition. the taxpayer got their money's worth out of these scopes. they didn't fade because they were indoors or out on occassion all these years no different than light use black scopes that have remained black and not faded.
Replicating a VERY thin slice of history...
And, for comparison, an original Redfield Gen.-1 that has retained 'most of it's 'green' finish
"toki...'s " current paler shade of green (in development)... you can see the obvious differences in the alloy content, with this color.
And, for comparison, an original Redfield Gen.-1 that has retained 'most of it's 'green' finish
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Man, you guys got way too much free time... LOL...
D
Deleted member 10043
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Too much time and this damn rifle
There is no sarcasm smiley available to use.
I cant believe its actually being sold. It should be trashed in a shredder. I guess it could use its own thread.
To those interested Whitmans 1966 Rem 700 SA from Tex A&M clocktower is being auctioned off. Google will get you to the DailyMail story. I deleted the link.
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Gunny pmclaine,
I'm not a 'gate keeper' and your motivations and intent, are certainly not in question. I use the 'Delete' feature (as in totally-totally gone,) fairly often myself. So, now that we've got you here, tell us about your M40 or what else you've got going on...
I'm not a 'gate keeper' and your motivations and intent, are certainly not in question. I use the 'Delete' feature (as in totally-totally gone,) fairly often myself. So, now that we've got you here, tell us about your M40 or what else you've got going on...
Gunny pmclaine,
I'm not a 'gate keeper' and your motivations and intent, are certainly not in question. I use the 'Delete' feature (as in totally-totally gone,) fairly often myself. So, now that we've got you here, tell us about your M40 or what else you've got going on...
My M40 is of the A1 variety.
This is my current project I have going on
than perhaps upon completion Ill get some more wood and iron in the safe with the original M40.
There is no intent or motivation in my post other than that the rifle is a notorious piece of history that Im surprised was not destroyed and now has made its way to auction. There is one pic of the rifle in the article and for the board it may be of interest to note trigger guard, safety or bolt features of a production rifle from the era.
Edit - Im not a Gunny. made it to Sergeant and I am quite happy at that rank. The hinges on the gate sound like they need oil.
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Gunny pmclaine,
I'm not a 'gate keeper' and your motivations and intent, are certainly not in question. I use the 'Delete' feature (as in totally-totally gone,) fairly often myself. So, now that we've got you here, tell us about your M40 or what else you've got going on...
You know what on review of what has gone on here I kind of thought to myself "Why did I remove the link?" The reason I removed it is because the link may have brought pain to someone that may have had a loved one hurt/killed during the event.
So I removed the link for them, as far as what I care what anyone else thinks I really dont give a shit.
18 hours after the first application of Real Milk Paint Company dark tung oil. I think I am going to like this stuff. And no, I have no idea why the picture rotated when I uploaded it....
I use RMP light TO on my Garand/03. I burnish light coats of oil into the stock and wood takes a deeper, richer finish. Its great stuff.
It will get uber shiny if the coats build but its good protection and you can knock down the shine with use or a synthetic buff pad.
I love the smell of Tung oil.
D
Deleted member 10043
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Damn, that looks real good.
Off topic, I had put some wood scales on a couple of fixed blades and was wanting to put a dry oil finish on them. I had boiled linseed oil but I got to looking what I had on the gun cleaning shelves. Starting looking up some data sheets and decided that the Hoppe's #9 lubricating oil that comes in the pump spray bottle and regular #9 gun cleaning solvent had the right ingredients for a finish so I alternated oil with the solvent a few times. Couple of hours it was dry and time to moveon.org. I do use the spray oil on my M40 for maintaining the stock (Remington actually told me use Pledge). When my brother came back from Vietnam (USMC) he bought me my first rifle. It was a single shot lever action Ithaca .22. Weeks before I could shoot it he gave me a can of sewing machine oil and had me rub oil on that thing unit I was crying about blisters. At the time I didn't understand the point of that exercise. I was only 8 years old.
Off topic, I had put some wood scales on a couple of fixed blades and was wanting to put a dry oil finish on them. I had boiled linseed oil but I got to looking what I had on the gun cleaning shelves. Starting looking up some data sheets and decided that the Hoppe's #9 lubricating oil that comes in the pump spray bottle and regular #9 gun cleaning solvent had the right ingredients for a finish so I alternated oil with the solvent a few times. Couple of hours it was dry and time to moveon.org. I do use the spray oil on my M40 for maintaining the stock (Remington actually told me use Pledge)
. When my brother came back from Vietnam (USMC) he bought me my first rifle. It was a single shot lever action Ithaca .22. Weeks before I could shoot it he gave me a can of sewing machine oil and had me rub oil on that thing unit I was crying about blisters. At the time I didn't understand the point of that exercise. I was only 8 years old. ...had me rub oil on that thing unit I was crying about blisters. At the time I didn't understand the point of that exercise. I was only 8 years old.
Thats what I do with the RMP tung oil. The heat build up if you are real burnishing by handit will blister you. It really helps to fill the pores of the wood.
Ive seen boned rifles that use a rib bone, toothbrush handle or whatever smooth object to burnish the wood and those come out nice also. Not wanting to ruin 70 year old wood has kept me from trying it.
Try mixing pumice, crushed to a fine powder, mixed with your Tung or BLO. You can fill pores and build an excellent hand/palm applied finish in this manner.
Mossyrock. Looking good, looking good. Having those original measurements provided by 'rlm8541' does make a difference, especially through the forearm.
Don't let it sit too long. The carbon all collects on the bottom. Stir that shit up. I mixed mine with 1/2 and 1/2 with BLO to thin it out a bit.
It's also a GREAT oil for case hardening/darkening steel parts. It's chock full o' carbon. Did I say that?
RMP Dark Raw applied with 0000 steel wool.
Chip Chipperson says "F*ck, yeah... like it better than cootahs!!!"
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Dont forget the buttpad must be black all around
Dont forget the buttpad must be black all around
ABSOLUTELY!!! It will go in to get Ceracoated "Carbon Black" along with the bottom metal when I get my barreled action back from being Parkerized.
Mossyrock, who did you get to park your rifle?
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