Mag or no mag?

[aslrookie]

I am considering adding a 3x magnifier to my 11.5 SBR. The way my rifle currently is, I like it’s weight, balance and streamlined setup. If I add an aimpoint 3x, that’s 7.8oz and adding a unity tactical fold to center mount is another 4.4oz for a total of 12.2oz = .76lbs. So considering the added weight and cost of both being $500...I ask myself, is it worth it?

Being in the midwest, my shots are mostly sub 200 yards. However, I have been at matches where you shoot steel 200+ and I also coyote hunt with this rifle as well. So I can see the benefit there as well.

My reason for not going lpvo is because I use NV and I don’t want to buy a lpvo, mount, and offset red dot. That adds even more weight and bulk.

 

[UpSideDown]

Being that red dots suffer from parallax, the dot covers the target, and do not have a mil/moa/bdc reticle, you're going to be guessing drop at range no matter what. A magnifier is only magnifying things, and with a red dot, it also magnifies the dot. A 2 MOA red dot becomes a 6 MOA red dot with a 3x magnifier. Eotechs work differently and the 1 MOA Eotech dot stays 1 MOA under mag.

I don't know that I'd put a magnifier on mine. It won't help you in regards to the dot covering the target. I think with experienced holds and no magnifier a 400 yard shot on a man sized target is feasible. Shooting a coyote, you're going to be closer range but that's still viable at maybe 200 yards.

There's a lot to be said for light weight, and it goes away fast.

 

[The DFC]

Elcan in play? I know they're heavy and not inexpensive-but man do they run.

 

[aslrookie]

Elcan in play? I know they're heavy and not inexpensive-but man do they run.

I hate elcans. I’d rather have an acog lol

 

[nn8734]

I like the Eotech g33 I have on my mk18 as it gives me the ability to hit 8” discs at 300 meters minimal difficulty using IMI 55g xm193 but quickly comes off when the rifle is in the house for home defense. I also have the Aimpoint 3x on a 6.8 spc AR behind a t2 and it also works very well to 300. I don’t shoot either of those much beyond that. Both rifles are zeroed at 36/300.

 

[charnicus]

If you’ve ever said, “man a little bit of magnification would be neat” you should go for it. If you think you might you probably do. Don’t mean to spend your money for you but if it was me... well I’d buy it.

 

[Snuby642]

Seems like a lot of demands for one sbr upper and one primary optic.

 

[Jigstick]

If you got NV buy a MAWL or PEQ15

 

[The DFC]

Well 50% love and 50% hate

I hate elcans. I’d rather have an acog lol

 

[mtrmn]

I never understood why not just put a magnified optic on there to begin with if you want magnification. Why over complicate things with 2 tandem optics? Get a 1-4X illuminated scope and run it on 1x until you need mag. I have a Burris Fastfire on my most-used AR. I sight it in on a bench using a regular 8.5 x 11 sheet of card stock as a 100 yd target. Put the dot in the center of the sheet and adjust groups to the top half of the sheet. At 200 yds the same hold puts my group in the bottom half of the sheet. From there I know a center hold is good for everything from point blank to at least 200 yds. YMMV

 

[Huskydriver]

Mag is unnecessary behind an aimpoint.. Like you said, if you need 3-4 power, just run an acog...if you practice you can get almost just as fast at reflex shots with an acog as you can with an aimpoint

 

[jeffl838]

Being that red dots suffer from parallax, the dot covers the target, and do not have a mil/moa/bdc reticle, you're going to be guessing drop at range no matter what. A magnifier is only magnifying things, and with a red dot, it also magnifies the dot. A 2 MOA red dot becomes a 6 MOA red dot with a 3x magnifier. Eotechs work differently and the 1 MOA Eotech dot stays 1 MOA under mag.

Kind of a sharpshoot, but to prevent the spread of misinformation, a 2 moa red dot remains a 2 moa red dot under 3x magnification. The red dot may appear 3 times larger but because the target also becomes larger in appearance at the same rate, it remains the same size angularly.

To the op, give it a shot and try it out. If you take more snap shots than aimed shots, you might prefer a red dot/magnifier combo. I will add though that for snap shooting I wouldn’t not recommend the unity tactical product. The height over bore is insane and the whole “heads up” thing isn’t something you need for shooting a few animals, even under nvg’s. Imagine seeing a coyote at 10m holding center and missing by an inch

Adding to the conversations in the thread... If an acog had the speed/ACCURACY potential in cqm as any red dot, I would like to see that proven in competition/training. Where the red dot speed comes from is a lot of the same as why shooting with a laser seems so fast and intuitive. As you present your rifle. The red dot can be seen in your field of view way sooner than the red on an acog can be. Instead of presenting and then adjusting you adjust as you present. There’s a bunch more reasons but it’s so nuts to say that an acog can be as fast as a red dot. That might be true if you are shooting with a bunch of people that suck at shooting. Yes, you can train how you index but when we’re talking multiple targets and dynamic scenarios, the red dot gives you leeway on adjusting imperfect indexes much faster. There’s a reason why a lot of competitive shooters that care about their quantified performance run offset red dots for cqm. You don’t have to worry about your eye being X inches away from the ocular lens when you present, you don’t have to worry about being at the wrong mag, etc etc there are definitely pros and cons to both systems.

This is coming from someone that LOVED the acog and chose to run an acog on I think like 5 deployments despite the arms room being full of Elcans/t1’s/t2’s/leupolds/eotechs/magnifiers/etc

 

[FCS]

I am considering adding a 3x magnifier to my 11.5 SBR. The way my rifle currently is, I like it’s weight, balance and streamlined setup. If I add an aimpoint 3x, that’s 7.8oz and adding a unity tactical fold to center mount is another 4.4oz for a total of 12.2oz = .76lbs. So considering the added weight and cost of both being $500...I ask myself, is it worth it?

Being in the midwest, my shots are mostly sub 200 yards. However, I have been at matches where you shoot steel 200+ and I also coyote hunt with this rifle as well. So I can see the benefit there as well.

My reason for not going lpvo is because I use NV and I don’t want to buy a lpvo, mount, and offset red dot. That adds even more weight and bulk.

Running an NXS 1-4, has NV settings for illumination of reticle (I don’t currently run any NV).
I have dope to 400 meters (dial up and hold overs) for the primary ammo, 60 Vmax @ 2570, for my 10.5” SBR. Ammo is optimized for SBR use, minimized muzzle flash, concussion, heating of can if running suppressed.

Heavy? Maybe compared to a RDS but for my end use it doesn’t bother me. 1x is plenty for FOV and basically it is not much different than a RDS.
4X I have no issues hitting 8-10” diameter plates out to 400, though I’m used to a little more magnification. Center dot in my reticle is pretty much covering plates so not really able to do “precision” hold, an impact is an impact.

NXS 1-4 is “old”ish school but works, lighter than the current crop of 1-6, 1-8.5 LPVO but heavier than RDS.

 

[UpSideDown]

Kind of a sharpshoot, but to prevent the spread of misinformation, a 2 moa red dot remains a 2 moa red dot under 3x magnification. The red dot may appear 3 times larger but because the target also becomes larger in appearance at the same rate, it remains the same size angularly.

To the op, give it a shot and try it out. If you take more snap shots than aimed shots, you might prefer a red dot/magnifier combo. I will add though that for snap shooting I wouldn’t not recommend the unity tactical product. The height over bore is insane and the whole “heads up” thing isn’t something you need for shooting a few animals, even under nvg’s. Imagine seeing a coyote at 10m holding center and missing by an inch

Thank you for the correction, I was definitely thinking of that incorrectly

 

[msstate56]

I’ve gone down this same road over the years. I tried the Aimpoint w/ 3x mag. I just hated the sight picture using the mag. Plus I noticed a repeatable zero shift between mag/ no mag. If I zeroed without the 3x, then fired a group with the 3x- it would be 1”-1.5” off (@ 50 yards). Then if I reversed it- same shift. I didn’t want to deal with it.

I ran an ACOG with offset 45 degree red dot for a while too. This was 10+ years ago when LPVOs weren’t what they are today.

Now I use a LPVO on general purpose ARs, and run Aimpoints and MROs on entry oriented ARs.

If I can only have 1 AR- it would have a 1-6x LPVO on it.

 

[aslrookie]

Kind of a sharpshoot, but to prevent the spread of misinformation, a 2 moa red dot remains a 2 moa red dot under 3x magnification. The red dot may appear 3 times larger but because the target also becomes larger in appearance at the same rate, it remains the same size angularly.

To the op, give it a shot and try it out. If you take more snap shots than aimed shots, you might prefer a red dot/magnifier combo. I will add though that for snap shooting I wouldn’t not recommend the unity tactical product. The height over bore is insane and the whole “heads up” thing isn’t something you need for shooting a few animals, even under nvg’s. Imagine seeing a coyote at 10m holding center and missing by an inch

Adding to the conversations in the thread... If an acog had the speed/ACCURACY potential in cqm as any red dot, I would like to see that proven in competition/training. Where the red dot speed comes from is a lot of the same as why shooting with a laser seems so fast and intuitive. As you present your rifle. The red dot can be seen in your field of view way sooner than the red on an acog can be. Instead of presenting and then adjusting you adjust as you present. There’s a bunch more reasons but it’s so nuts to say that an acog can be as fast as a red dot. That might be true if you are shooting with a bunch of people that suck at shooting. Yes, you can train how you index but when we’re talking multiple targets and dynamic scenarios, the red dot gives you leeway on adjusting imperfect indexes much faster. There’s a reason why a lot of competitive shooters that care about their quantified performance run offset red dots for cqm. You don’t have to worry about your eye being X inches away from the ocular lens when you present, you don’t have to worry about being at the wrong mag, etc etc there are definitely pros and cons to both systems.

This is coming from someone that LOVED the acog and chose to run an acog on I think like 5 deployments despite the arms room being full of Elcans/t1’s/t2’s/leupolds/eotechs/magnifiers/etc

I currently have the FAST mount on my 11.5 and just ordered another one for my 300blk SBR. Even without NVG's, I prefer the taller mounts. I do practice holds on small dots and squares for shots inside of 10 yards, so I know where my hold is to compensate for HOB. Before taller mounts were as "popular" as they are now, I used to have an MRO on a KAC riser. People thought I was crazy, but now it's catching on. The lowest I would go on any optic now is a 1/3 mount like the EoTech or Vortex AMG. Those aren't bad heights either. A 1.93" mount is probably the most universal height, but the FAST mount gives me more pros than cons.

I am still on the fence about the magnifier. Leaning towards no at this point. I know it would greatly help my wife, but she will be getting an LPVO because her eyesight is terrible.

 

[Frank_Castle]

I just got a Riton RT-R MOD 3 magnifier to try for similar reasons. On sale $110 shipped with the mount seemed reasonable enough if I hated it ( just use occasionally). 20+ Reviews on the glass were all top and I agree. Its a very clear monocular. Its weight is 7.09 oz and included mount 5.7oz (13.5)

Scalarworks magnifier mount weighs 2.97 oz if you want it lighter mount for your Aimpoint route.