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Rifle Scopes Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Help!

speeddreamz

Private
Minuteman
Dec 30, 2009
10
0
39
I want to know the advantages/Disadvantages (or application uses) of each of the following and why I'd want to have one vs the other?

I did use the search function and read the faq, but I don't know the right keyword to search for....? If you know it let me know.

This is PRIMARILY going to be used on a Remington 700 VTR (.308)



Magnification -
Why would I want a scope with a fixed magnification?
Will a higher magnification or a higher adjustable range effect the quality or any other functions of the scope?
What is ideal for hunting?
What about if I want to shoot around 500-600 yrds?

Size (30 40 50mm?)
This is the size of objective lens correct?
Does a larger one mean a larger scope view itself (i.e. you can see 3 inches vs 5 inches in diameter at the same magnification?)
Does a larger size mean easier viewing or better eye relief?
Will a larger size be more unreliable? why wouldn't someone want a bigger size scope?

Illuminated?
Does this make it easier to see in low lighting conditions?
Will it illuminate the picture or the reticule or what?
Why would I not want an illuminated scope?

Mil/Moa?
I've been reading on this subject but I would appreciate the input, for application use? does it matter?

Other features I might want? Discuss those...

Oh what kind of bipod should I get for the qd swivels?

What kind of sling?

Lastly, make me a recommendation for about 700, 1000, 1300 price range.

(Shitty Bushnell on there now)
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Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Help!

My .02... From a 700 to a M1A Socom, AR w/ 16-20 is way wide in my thoughts.

Fixed mag is and was used my the military because of less moving parts and less parts to break during missions. More reliable at the time... 1980.... now they are using variable powers. But will be less expensive. Depending on the range and animal hunting between 6 and 12 would be plenty for you in the 500-600yrd range.

Larger Dia will allow more light in and will assist in lower light conditions. Also quality of the scope matters. Dont expect a 56mm burris to compete with a 42mm

S&B. You get what you pay for.

Illuminated reticle will help you find your cross hairs when they blend into the back ground or its to dark to see them. So if you plan on hunting in low light, this may be a good idea.

MOA is a lill easier to understand but I think a more experienced shooter can benefit form MIL reticles. If its your first time doing long range the MOA may be better for ya. But, really that could go either way. I would just read up on that and make that decision.

Leupold then Zeiss. Leupold will have a better variety for tactical scopes but Zeiss smokes them in quality and low light performance.

Im sure I missed something but just a quick assistance for ya. Good luck
 
Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Help!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaxson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My .02... From a 700 to a M1A Socom, AR w/ 16-20 is way wide in my thoughts.

<span style="font-weight: bold">(Okay I guess it is a wide range, lets get it for the rem700, and would it not work on a AR or M1a? just thinking I might wanna shoot it with that scope for the hell of it.)</span>

Fixed mag is and was used my the military because of less moving parts and less parts to break during missions. More reliable at the time... 1980.... now they are using variable powers. But will be less expensive. Depending on the range and animal hunting between 6 and 12 would be plenty for you in the 500-600yrd range.

Larger Dia will allow more light in and will assist in lower light conditions. Also quality of the scope matters. Dont expect a 56mm burris to compete with a 42mm

S&B. You get what you pay for.
<span style="font-weight: bold">(Whats S&B?)</span>
Illuminated reticle will help you find your cross hairs when they blend into the back ground or its to dark to see them. So if you plan on hunting in low light, this may be a good idea.

MOA is a lill easier to understand but I think a more experienced shooter can benefit form MIL reticles. If its your first time doing long range the MOA may be better for ya. But, really that could go either way. I would just read up on that and make that decision.
<span style="font-weight: bold">
(In terms of application? what changes do hunters or tactical shooters use mil or moa? I'm not great at math but I'll learn if its something useful.)</span>

Leupold then Zeiss. Leupold will have a better variety for tactical scopes but Zeiss smokes them in quality and low light performance.

Im sure I missed something but just a quick assistance for ya. Good luck </div></div>
 
Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Help!

Well it is possible to change from rifle to rifle with the same optics... but sometimes it want match up on the rails. This means you would have to loosen the rings and re adjust. This is gonna cause major wear on your scope an be a pain. Also you are gong to have to rezero between rifles. Is is possible yes, but more of a pain then I and most people will want to deal with. Now if you go with just the 700 then use a optic with (say a 40-50mm obj) then that kills your CQB requirements. Yea you can zoom it down to to 2.5 or 3.5 or put a red dot on top but, we are talking about 1 single optic and not mulitple optics. (if you did a 700, M1A National Match or Loaded and a AR SPR then you could use all the same optic, but thats not a CQB weapon,)

I would go with a muliti power 50mm obj NF on the 700. MOA. Cant go wrong and wont be dissapointed.

MOA is 1.047 inches at 100 yrd or rounded to 1" at 100yrd. so 1 MOA at 100 is 1", 1MOA at 200yrds is 2", 1 MOA at 300yrds is 3" and so on.

1 mil is 3.6 or 3.4 MOA(depends on who you ask) but I was always taught to round to 3.5 cause the .1 really matter... more of a shooter error then that difference and its always worked. Its seems more difficult,t but its pretty easy. And if you are working with a spotter who is looking through a Mil dot reticle spotting scope, you are dont looking mil dot reticle it only makes since, but I have done it both ways and made it out ok. But recommendations for a new shooter, I would do MOA.

S&B is Schmidt and Bender. IMHO the baddest optics on the face of the earth and if you dont believe me, I will put a jihad on you too!
 
Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Help!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaxson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My .02... From a 700 to a M1A Socom, AR w/ 16-20 is way wide in my thoughts.

Fixed mag is and was used my the military because of less moving parts and less parts to break during missions. More reliable at the time... 1980.... now they are using variable powers. But will be less expensive. Depending on the range and animal hunting between 6 and 12 would be plenty for you in the 500-600yrd range.

Larger Dia will allow more light in and will assist in lower light conditions. Also quality of the scope matters. Dont expect a 56mm burris to compete with a 42mm

S&B. You get what you pay for.

Illuminated reticle will help you find your cross hairs when they blend into the back ground or its to dark to see them. So if you plan on hunting in low light, this may be a good idea.

MOA is a lill easier to understand but I think a more experienced shooter can benefit form MIL reticles. If its your first time doing long range the MOA may be better for ya. But, really that could go either way. I would just read up on that and make that decision.

Leupold then Zeiss. Leupold will have a better variety for tactical scopes but Zeiss smokes them in quality and low light performance.

Im sure I missed something but just a quick assistance for ya. Good luck </div></div>


Why do you think MOA is easier to understand? I for one think they are both equaly easy. As long as the ret and knobs match that is.
 
Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Help!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaxson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well it is possible to change from rifle to rifle with the same optics... but sometimes it want match up on the rails. This means you would have to loosen the rings and re adjust. This is gonna cause major wear on your scope an be a pain. Also you are gong to have to rezero between rifles. Is is possible yes, but more of a pain then I and most people will want to deal with. Now if you go with just the 700 then use a optic with (say a 40-50mm obj) then that kills your CQB requirements. Yea you can zoom it down to to 2.5 or 3.5 or put a red dot on top but, we are talking about 1 single optic and not mulitple optics. (if you did a 700, M1A National Match or Loaded and a AR SPR then you could use all the same optic, but thats not a CQB weapon,)

<span style="font-weight: bold">(well lets say I get one of those larue scope bases with a quick detatch, if I mark my rails would it be able to go gun to gun without zeroing too much? and avoid wear? well anywho not too important...</span>


I would go with a muliti power 50mm obj NF on the 700. MOA. Cant go wrong and wont be dissapointed.

<span style="font-weight: bold">(NF is what?)</span>

MOA is 1.047 inches at 100 yrd or rounded to 1" at 100yrd. so 1 MOA at 100 is 1", 1MOA at 200yrds is 2", 1 MOA at 300yrds is 3" and so on.

1 mil is 3.6 or 3.4 MOA(depends on who you ask) but I was always taught to round to 3.5 cause the .1 really matter... more of a shooter error then that difference and its always worked. Its seems more difficult,t but its pretty easy. And if you are working with a spotter who is looking through a Mil dot reticle spotting scope, you are dont looking mil dot reticle it only makes since, but I have done it both ways and made it out ok. But recommendations for a new shooter, I would do MOA.



S&B is Schmidt and Bender. IMHO the baddest optics on the face of the earth and if you dont believe me, I will put a jihad on you too! </div></div>
 
Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Help!

Why would I want a scope with a fixed magnification? I would not recommend it for hunting, it is also harder to find these in what you may want and they are not any less expensive really.

Will a higher magnification or a higher adjustable range effect the quality or any other functions of the scope? It can on especially the lower end optics, but don't get carried away with the "more power" means "more accuracy", just because you can see it, don't mean you can hit it!

What is ideal for hunting? Depending on the type of hunting environment, but I normally recommend something in the 3-12x or 4-16x range. This gives you the best of both worlds, low end for low light and wooded areas, plus the upper end for longer ranges, observation and target shooting.

What about if I want to shoot around 500-600 yrds? Again, you can go with anything you like but I prefer optics with the 4-16x range and I also use some 2.5-10x models as well for this range on AR's and more compact setups.

Size (30 40 50mm?)
This is the size of objective lens correct? Well it can be, but there are two different
items you will see with sizes on them which will be the OBJECTIVE (normally this will be 24, 32, 40, 44, 50 and 56mm ranges and there are many more), then there is the TUBE diameter (normally 1", 30mm and 34mm, and again there are more).

Does a larger one mean a larger scope view itself (i.e. you can see 3 inches vs 5 inches in diameter at the same magnification?) No the larger the number (objective size say @ 50mm) means the end of the scope will have a 50mm lens which will allow for more light to be gathered for a better clearer image to you. There are other aspects to this but keeping it simple and to the point, this is what you are getting.

Does a larger size mean easier viewing or better eye relief? The larger the tube and objective, the more means the optics has to present you with a clearer image. As for eye relief, not so much, this is in the other end, ocular and it established by the size of the tube/ocular eye piece/magnification range and a host of other items.

Will a larger size be more unreliable? why wouldn't someone want a bigger size scope? No, again I believe you are referring to the objective being larger and it will not have anything to do with the reliability of the system. Why would you not want a 56mm or a 72mm objective since it gives you some advantages. One, it makes your mounting solution (rings) have to be much taller, which means your bore axis and optics center line are further apart, and your cheek piece will have to be adjustable or you will be using a Eagle stock pack with foam underneath it to elevate your cheek weld.

Illuminated?
Does this make it easier to see in low lighting conditions? Yes, but I have rarely ever used the illumination on any of my scopes, including at night with Night Vision. If it is a higher quality scope, and your eye sight is good, most of the time you will not need it. But in a hunting situation, wooded and low light, it could make or break the opportunity.

Will it illuminate the picture or the reticule or what? Illumination, is only the reticle, you will need Night Vision to make dark into light and that is a whole different story.

Why would I not want an illuminated scope? So it looks cool, you can say it is illuminated and if you were to use it in the above mentioned situations then it could be useful.

Mil/Moa? Oh boy, well I will say this. MOA is what normally everyone starts off with, understands somewhat with sighting in dads scope on the ole hunting rifle and is what I believe for the average person, the simplest way to get from zero to target.

I've been reading on this subject but I would appreciate the input, for application use? does it matter? First off, the .1mil scopes will cost you more, just like the First Focal Plane (FFP) scopes over the Second Focal Plane (SFP) and if you get a Mil-Dot in many optics that will add to your cost as well. For what you are doing, you really don't need it, this is used for military, competitors, optical ranging, hold overs and a slew of other features that you are most likely not going to use.

Other features I might want? Discuss those...: Try to stick with a system with same the MOA reticle as well as the MOA turrets, this will simplify your shooting solutions. Zero-Stop, if the manufacture offers it, I would highly recommend it. Why, once you zero your rifle say @ 100yds, you set the zero-stop, after that no matter what you do, if your elevation turret gets moved you will notice it and can quickly return to your standard zero without concern. This is a "hands down confidence" winning solution.

Oh what kind of bipod should I get for the qd swivels? Most will recommend a Harris 9-13" swivel model and get a KMW Pod-Lok. This is for a hunter that is going to shoot prone, most likely the best to clear underbrush and give you a descent amount of elevation to work with as well. If you are a sitting hunter, my sons uses the 13-23" model and it works for him.

What kind of sling? Uh Uh, a sling, one that is comfortable for distance and long carries. This is one of those items which is a personal decision, check them out and pick what fits you the best.

Lastly, make me a recommendation for about 700, 1000, 1300 price range.: I would recommend the NightForce 2.5-10x32 or 3.5-15x50 models, which you can find several on this forum now for sale in this range. These are outstanding, durable and extremely effective optics for all your applications. Yes there are other such as Leupold, Nikon, Bushnell and several others available. But for the one scope setup that I was going to keep, hunt with and rely on year after year in this range it would be a NightForce currently.
 
Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Hel

Hey USMCj,

I think they are both (Mil/MOA) equally easy to deal with and understand. But 1 to 1 ratio makes it pretty easy for most people to grasp.

And to the original poser, sorry about all the abbreviations. NF is Nightforce.
 
Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Hel

Thanks for all you're input. Seems like i've got to safe up quite a bit for zero stop, plus something 40+ and 3-9 or 6-12x. Quality wise.... lets name some favorite brand and specific scope line/configs....
 
Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Hel

make me a recommendation for about 800, 1300, 1800 ranges.
 
Re: Magnification, Size, Illuminated, Mil/Moa ?Hel

oh can someone explain 1st and 2nd focal planes...and what their application may be? it seems as if 1st focal has advantages in every category, although I was reading something about using 3.5x magnification and it being a problem with 1st focal? is it because the reticule shrinks too?