I was searching your forum for some info on loads for my 8mm (8x57 Sporter) and couldn't help but notice a plethora of posts on magnum vs standard primers. This seems to be more of a cognitive issue than it should be. The information on primers is usually fairly plentiful, consistent and fairly straight forward.
I'll start my take on this issue, if it is an issue:
- primers all cost about the same, so that is not a cost issue
- if there is a best primer for a particular load we'd want to use it
- not all primers are identical, some are made of different chemicals, some are made of harder metal, some are hotter, some fit tighter than others. So that may influence our decision.
- some shouldn't be stacked in an auto primer tube, that's an important issue.
- we all want reliable ammo, and sometimes the choice of primer is a factor
- we all want our ammo to be as accurate as possible, primers can be a factor in that too.
- magnum primers are not bad, they may not be the best choice in some instances but they are not bad. Neither are standard primers bad. So for argument sake lets assume there are no bad primers. There are instances where we may want to choose a different primer, a magnum vs a standard, a WLR vs a F210, a F10M vs a F210, a F215 vs a CCI250.
- we all have the basic human instinct that makes us want to defend our choices and opinion, it's in us all.
Now it's time for me to add my 0.02$ worth of personal experience with primers, brands and brisance level. My latest foray into the dark reaches of reloading was for a 8x57. The only case that was available was a Prvi and because I was using ball powder (H414) I choose a CCI 250, a good reliable consistent primer that should do the job. All did not go well, it was a bear to seat and sometimes it would shave a bit of brass going in. Now it's a fact that CCI primers are on the large side of the correct size, they are not bad, they are just slightly larger than some other brands. Therefore I switched to a Fed215 primer, kept the powder the same because I was still well below a max charge and I now have a load that is easy to load and works well. Do I believe that I need the brisance of a F215, no, but I also know that ignition in cold weather will not be a problem and accuracy probably won't change. When fired the primer pocket is easy to clean, the case interior is clean and the rifle barrel has very little powder residue. Perhaps I could have used a WLR or a 9 1/2 or another magnum primer brand and been fine too, but if you we to ask me what primer I'd recommend for a 8mm Prvi case and ball powder I would say my choice would be a F215.
The other challenge I experienced was with loading for my 223 using H335 and BLC-2 with a 40 gr Nosler. Accuracy was poor, cases were black and sooty on the outside, some primers were flattened and some looked normal. I tried WSR and 7 1/2BR to name a few, no joy. Then I remembered that my old Speer manual always recommends Magnum primers with ball powder. I bought some CCI 450 Magnum primers and voila, accurate reliable ammo.
Experience has shown me that the Speer recommendation is sound, and indeed if you use Magnum primers with ball powders you should have good reliable ammo. You may be ok with standard primers sometimes, even most times but not always.
I also had a 357 Mag that would only fire Winchester primers, the mainspring had been tuned very light and they were the only primer soft enough to fire reliably.
So why not just use magnum primers with every load. Good question and it appears logical. After all they cost the same and it can't hurt. No quite that simple, sometimes for certain reasons another primer choice is needed. Lets say we are using a 308 for 400 meter competition, my first choice would be a F210M, known for it's consistency with brisance approaching a magnum primer.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that most of us are not ballistic engineers, I know I'm not, and if someone asked me if they needed a magnum primer, I would say that perhaps you may. And then I'd add that changing primers can cause a change in pressure, making a previously safe load unsafe. Likewise if someone were to ask me if they could substitute a standard primer in their reloads I would reply perhaps, but they may experience hangfires, unreliable ignition or even detonation. I would hope that they were trying to correct an issue, like accuracy, not just wanting to change because the ran out of one kind of primer that had given them accurate reliable ammo in the past.
There may be something to the theory that you want to use just enough primer to get the job done, or maybe, if enough is good then too much should be just right. I do wonder, for many years Winchester maintained that their WLR had enough brisance for their powder (Ball), they now make a WLRM.
"Change is good Donkey" - Shrek
I'll start my take on this issue, if it is an issue:
- primers all cost about the same, so that is not a cost issue
- if there is a best primer for a particular load we'd want to use it
- not all primers are identical, some are made of different chemicals, some are made of harder metal, some are hotter, some fit tighter than others. So that may influence our decision.
- some shouldn't be stacked in an auto primer tube, that's an important issue.
- we all want reliable ammo, and sometimes the choice of primer is a factor
- we all want our ammo to be as accurate as possible, primers can be a factor in that too.
- magnum primers are not bad, they may not be the best choice in some instances but they are not bad. Neither are standard primers bad. So for argument sake lets assume there are no bad primers. There are instances where we may want to choose a different primer, a magnum vs a standard, a WLR vs a F210, a F10M vs a F210, a F215 vs a CCI250.
- we all have the basic human instinct that makes us want to defend our choices and opinion, it's in us all.
Now it's time for me to add my 0.02$ worth of personal experience with primers, brands and brisance level. My latest foray into the dark reaches of reloading was for a 8x57. The only case that was available was a Prvi and because I was using ball powder (H414) I choose a CCI 250, a good reliable consistent primer that should do the job. All did not go well, it was a bear to seat and sometimes it would shave a bit of brass going in. Now it's a fact that CCI primers are on the large side of the correct size, they are not bad, they are just slightly larger than some other brands. Therefore I switched to a Fed215 primer, kept the powder the same because I was still well below a max charge and I now have a load that is easy to load and works well. Do I believe that I need the brisance of a F215, no, but I also know that ignition in cold weather will not be a problem and accuracy probably won't change. When fired the primer pocket is easy to clean, the case interior is clean and the rifle barrel has very little powder residue. Perhaps I could have used a WLR or a 9 1/2 or another magnum primer brand and been fine too, but if you we to ask me what primer I'd recommend for a 8mm Prvi case and ball powder I would say my choice would be a F215.
The other challenge I experienced was with loading for my 223 using H335 and BLC-2 with a 40 gr Nosler. Accuracy was poor, cases were black and sooty on the outside, some primers were flattened and some looked normal. I tried WSR and 7 1/2BR to name a few, no joy. Then I remembered that my old Speer manual always recommends Magnum primers with ball powder. I bought some CCI 450 Magnum primers and voila, accurate reliable ammo.
Experience has shown me that the Speer recommendation is sound, and indeed if you use Magnum primers with ball powders you should have good reliable ammo. You may be ok with standard primers sometimes, even most times but not always.
I also had a 357 Mag that would only fire Winchester primers, the mainspring had been tuned very light and they were the only primer soft enough to fire reliably.
So why not just use magnum primers with every load. Good question and it appears logical. After all they cost the same and it can't hurt. No quite that simple, sometimes for certain reasons another primer choice is needed. Lets say we are using a 308 for 400 meter competition, my first choice would be a F210M, known for it's consistency with brisance approaching a magnum primer.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that most of us are not ballistic engineers, I know I'm not, and if someone asked me if they needed a magnum primer, I would say that perhaps you may. And then I'd add that changing primers can cause a change in pressure, making a previously safe load unsafe. Likewise if someone were to ask me if they could substitute a standard primer in their reloads I would reply perhaps, but they may experience hangfires, unreliable ignition or even detonation. I would hope that they were trying to correct an issue, like accuracy, not just wanting to change because the ran out of one kind of primer that had given them accurate reliable ammo in the past.
There may be something to the theory that you want to use just enough primer to get the job done, or maybe, if enough is good then too much should be just right. I do wonder, for many years Winchester maintained that their WLR had enough brisance for their powder (Ball), they now make a WLRM.
"Change is good Donkey" - Shrek