Make Your Case: Long Action as your only rifle

reich10

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Edited Post:
The Case: Short Action Shane has accused Long Action Larry of not be a viable option for a Do-it-All rifle set up(see requirements below). You are Long Action Larrys Defense attorny and you think Short Action Shane has a point but you still need to provide a solid defense stating factual information in possibly a smart ass way to sway the Jury.

Example: SAS Attorny to LAL: "Long Action Larry can you reliably feed .223 from one of your dbms..." LAL attorny aka You:"Objection your honor, i thought we were talking about Bolt action calibers and not little bitch semi auto calibers."


Make Your Case!

Original Post:
If a guy wanted to have one rifle that he could use to shoot any competition (PRS/NRL/NF Steel Challenge/Steel Safari/Hornady Precision Steel Hunter/"ELR Limited Class") with and also hunt anything in North America would it be best to get a long action or have the short action magnums made them obsolete? I am basing this off of either a Big Horn Origin Long Action or Short action so swapping calibers between standard bf and magnum bf would be easy.

LA Pros:
More Top end when it comes to caliber choice as well as solid standard bf calibers like the '06s and the -284s.
Can also run SAUM, WSM, and 6.5 PRC without mag length restrictions.
______?

LA Cons:
Missing out on the smaller 6mm and .22 variants
Magazines for competition- Literally have only found 1 type of 10 round magazines
______?


**I'm Not interested in the "why dont you just get both" comments but if you cant help yourself cause you have nothing to contribute please be my guest.**
 
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phlegethon

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What magazines have you found? I think that is a big problem except for the AXMC mentioned above.
 

The D

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I may as well repeat my broken record again, ARC Mausingfield. Available with .585 bolt face to shoot Lapua and/or Norma magnums so you can shoot the big’uns way far out there. It’s also available with all of the bolt faces down to .384 if you would like to make a trainer setup with .223 rem, this comes with it’s share of potential feeding issues so just be cognizant of that.

A long action Mausingfield with .473, .540, & .585 bolt faces is my dream setup. I’ll be able to load some .22BR down enough to get my sons to start shooting and also be able to shoot 300 Norma/.338 Lapua to as far as I can find land, and everything in between
 
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XLR308

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Unless long range hunting for some of the biggest animals in North America or shooting true ELR matches that you would most likely be outgunned even with a long action what's the point.
Many of the short mags can be run in the medium actions and with the performance that the Sherman Short cartridges have I don't see the point.
Using a medium size action also gives you the benefit of running the smaller caliber and cartridges you listed as well as an abundance of quality magazines available.
 
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b6graham

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Short action
223 easy obviously
Competition cartridges easy obviously
Short action magnums are more than sufficient for hunting and the 'ELR' matches where plenty of guys use smaller stuff even in a 308 boltface. SAUM and Sherman and WSM cases provide plenty of options. 180 class 7mms at 2900-3000

I'd never want to mess with long action mags in a true PRS type match especially with 308 based cartridges and forget 223 and BR stuff

Or go true middle ground with a tikka/defacto but your mags are a little trickier with this and may need multiple stocks/chassis for short and 'long action modes
 
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reich10

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Unless long range hunting for some of the biggest animals in North America or shooting true ELR matches that you would most likely be outgunned even with a long action what's the point.
Many of the short mags can be run in the medium actions and with the performance that the Sherman Short cartridges have I don't see the point.
Using a medium size action also gives you the benefit of running the smaller caliber and cartridges you listed as well as an abundance of quality magazines available.
Medium action really isnt an option for me. I would agree with those points though. I hadnt considered the Sherman Short cartridges which look to be true short action designs. That said they have some pretty wicked long action Shermans as well.

As far as ELR I wouldnt expect to compete in KO2M but i think the NF ELR style matches might see a rise in popularity as they are more accessable.
 
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reich10

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With a 3.625 coal...so no 300PRC or long 300WM
Correct but those would most likely be used with a Hawkins M5 BDL. The 10 rounder would be for competitions. I am obviously not planning on placing top 5 in a PRS/NRL national match with this set up, just be able to compete. The majority of competition shooting would be one day local matches and a couple two day national matches, in particular the NF ELR and Hornady Hunting Match and the like.

They way I see it you can get a Long action +2 or 3 extension for the magpul AICS mags and get roughly 8 to 9 rounds or 25-06, 6.5-284 etc and then either do a mag change or grab from the two round holder.
 

Steel head

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I’d do a short action
You can run 223 or 6BR in my SA nuke and I’ve had my 7 saum barrels out to 3000 so far.
 
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reich10

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I’d do a short action
You can run 223 or 6BR in my SA nuke and I’ve had my 7 saum barrels out to 3000 so far.
Give me your best "screw short action, Long action all the way" argument. If you were on the defense of the long action what would your case be?
 

Steel head

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Give me your best "screw short action, Long action all the way" argument. If you were on the defense of the long action what would your case be?
Well long action could do lapua bolt face or longer 300 magnums.
Favoring ELR over PRS type shooting.
 

XLR308

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post updated.
All joking aside, you are obviously dead set on a long action.
It may not be the latest and greatest but there is nothing wrong with the good old 300WM or any of the 7mm magnums.
I would personally pick something that is readily available both loaded ammo and brass readily available.
 

reich10

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All joking aside, you are obviously dead set on a long action.
It may not be the latest and greatest but there is nothing wrong with the good old 300WM or any of the 7mm magnums.
I would personally pick something that is readily available both loaded ammo and brass readily available.
I think i am honestly leaning towards short action just cause i think it could be less of a headache. But i love the thought of a Long Action in 25-06 for comp use and a 30in 338 Edge for an elr match if i wanted to try it out. Thats why i would like to hear a good defense as to why LA is a better way to go given the needs/wants described. Keep in mind either way i am not stuck with just one caliber as i will be using an action that i can switch barrels on at the house. That is an important piece to consider.
 

XLR308

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I think i am honestly leaning towards short action just cause i think it could be less of a headache. But i love the thought of a Long Action in 25-06 for comp use and a 30in 338 Edge for an elr match if i wanted to try it out. Thats why i would like to hear a good defense as to why LA is a better way to go given the needs/wants described. Keep in mind either way i am not stuck with just one caliber as i will be using an action that i can switch barrels on at the house. That is an important piece to consider.
The biggest reason and advantage is if you actually need a cartridge with more power and down range energy than what can be realistically stuffed into a medium action.
 
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b6graham

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Short Action:
Good for training
Good for comps
Lots of options for hunting
Sherman/SAUM cases plenty for NF/etc elr field matches to be more than competitive just look at the results
All feed reliably with good 10+ round magazines and stocks and chassis and accessories are everywhere
Cons:180s at 2900+ (give or take bullet and caliber) is max energy

Long action:
300prc or 300wm or 7rm or 280ai for energy
Cons:
Mags limited in selection and size. They're massive in 10 rounds. Not gonna feed small stuff
Feeding smaller comp cases sucks (someone maybe some day will make a kit for running comp cartridges. But when you see a 10 round long sctikn AICS mag you'll shit and realize that's dumb. Single stack single feed sucks)
Anything not long action won't be fun
 

357Max

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I've gone back & fourth on this. Since I'm a Gemini I just settled on 3 x long, 3 x short, & 1 x medium.

But seriously if I had to give up all but 1, I think the 25 Sherman Short Tactical would be it! Capable of 3300 with the 131 Blackjack @ .335ish G7 BC. It'll Hunt anything in North America, recoil is manageable, true short action COAL 2.860, good mag choices, & There are more good .25 cal bullets in the pipeline (Berger). I know there was at least 1 of them at the Niteforce ELR this year, maybe more.
 
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b6graham

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Since when is a true short action 2.860? 2.955 give or take in any custom action.

Only poor (or the very very fortunate) people use R700s
 

SN13

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I went with a TL3 LA for exactly what you're talking about.

Yes compromises.

I will have all of my parts for my build by tomorrow and be putting it together.

I'll let you know how it feeds 6.5CM out of the single stack mags.

:unsure:
 

XLR308

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Life is too short to be arguing over things like this. They both should respect each other's position and go out and buy a few of each, just to experience the other's argument.
Couldn't agree more, that's why I have multiples of each.
I still need a true short action though for 68spc and wildcat variants or 65G and variants.
 

357Max

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Since when is a true short action 2.860? 2.955 give or take in any custom action.

Only poor (or the very very fortunate) people use R700s
My point was the SST's were designed to run 3300 @ 2.860 with some room to grow COAL as more .25 pills become available. Unlike the std SAUM's that are more mag restricted in a short action with the high BC pills.
There's another thread on here somewhere with a very similar new cartridge .257 Blackjack
My SST is in an ARC Nucleus 1.1 SA. The ARC mags allow 2.955 as you stated.

Pic clipped from Sherman web sight. 1597111031353.png
 

Supersubes

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Give me your best "screw short action, Long action all the way" argument. If you were on the defense of the long action what would your case be?
These days it’s a crappy argument to make. No sense making it imo.
 

Totoro

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K.I.S.S...

LA with 0.532BF, 300WM throated for 215 Hybrid, sprinkle of H1000 and lite it off your choice of primer, FGMM or CCI.

No man or beast within reasonable accurate shooting range that would not suffer sudden hydraulic failure on impact.

However, variety is the spice of life...
 

chevy_man

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I have a long action 22-250 that feeds just fine.


You can't put a 30-06 in a short, but you sure can run a 308 in a long.
 

rydah

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Short action.
7SS pushing a 180gr at 3000fps will kill anything at 1000m.
 
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b6graham

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So there’s just no argument for long action at all? The defense rests? That’s weak. Why do they even make them anymore?
They make them for long action cartridges. Small round counts. Hunting energy.

The Sherman options (and even plain SAUM/PRC) have made the long action unnecessary for a lot of people though. Interchangeable bolt heads from Zermatt are cheap. and you can use the same action and chassis/stock

You can run short action cartridges from a long action. But its a lot more of a compromise than shooting the short action magnuns when you need a little more range or energy

@357Max don't worry I'm very familiar with the Sherman cases. The SST and SS are quite impressive from either 2.85 or 2.95 respectively and have really changed what a lot of people are building now for hunting rifles and the ELR/PRS hybrid field matches
 

hereinaz

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So there’s just no argument for long action at all? The defense rests? That’s weak. Why do they even make them anymore?
Hahahaha, nope, can't defend them. The short action is morally superior. Sure, lawyers can twist the truth and mount a defense, but why?

The whole premise of these "if you could blah blah blah" questions, IMO, is silly anyhow. Parsing down scenarios and "what ifs" to the minutia.

Bottom line is that I can do everything needed with a short action, and better than a long action for OP stated purposes. My short mag is more efficient than all comparable long action mags. The one short action can run .223 to 7 SSmag flawlessly. Swap barrel, bolt and mags and I am up and running. No one is beating me and no animal is getting a pass because I needed something in a long action.
 

winklche

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If you're looking for ELR applications a long action is warranted because you can run all the short action stuff in a long action with minor hiccups, but anything inside 1200 can easily be done with any of the 6mm or 6.5mm cartriges in a short action
 

Steel head

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This is the classic compromise argument.
Which category are you will to compromise on the most?
Smaller cartridges and magazines or ELR.
I’d choose the one that fits the majority of my shooting.

I’m at the moment kinda compromising my majority shooting with a short action.
Last 5-6 times I went shooting I started a a bit past a mile and worked out to 1.7 miles.
Thankfully 7 mm Midget stripper magnum is pretty capable but I’d be better served with a long Action with lapua boltface at this point.
 

hereinaz

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The scenario for one rifle is a little ridiculous when you go from PRS where people run 6br to limited ELR where people run .338 lapua based stuff... but, you could technically pull the bolt and load any cartridge length for ELR as long as you have the bolt face available..

If you compromise something is gonna suck at one or the other. That's what compromise means, you get to pick stuff that sucks a little for everything or a lot for one extreme.

The total amount of suck is there, just depends on how you divide up the suck.

No one is really satisfied with the "one gun" anyhow. That's why these are always hypothetical questions.
 
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SN13

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@Steelhead

Can I ask a serious question?

.338 Lapua is 116gr case capacity. (Lapua Bolt Face)
.338 RUM is 113gr case capacity. (Magnum Bolt face)
.338 Edge is 122gr case capacity. (Magnum Bolt Face)

I know geometries etc can affect usable energy from capacity but it would appear that there are viable handloading options to get .338 Lapua performance from a standard magnum bolt face?
 
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Steel head

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@Steelhead

Can I ask a serious question?

.338 Lapua is 116gr case capacity. (Lapua Bolt Face)
.338 RUM is 113gr case capacity. (Magnum Bolt face)
.338 Edge is 122gr case capacity. (Magnum Bolt Face)

I know geometries etc can affect usable energy from capacity but it would appear that there are viable handloading options to get .338 Lapua performance from a standard magnum bolt face?
Except I wouldn’t be going 338 lapua
I’d be going 33 or 37XC.
 

winklche

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Or just do what the marines are doing and pick up a Barret MRAD kit with .308, 300 Norma, and 338 Norma load outs and be done with it