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Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

P

Pete E

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 2, 2004
292
0
North Wales, UK
After a longer wait than originally anticipated, I received my group buy MSC-T a couple of weeks ago.

On examining the stock, I noticed that one of the cups had been installed in the wrong place, and the loops were missing, and there was no sign of the CDI bottom metal I'd had sent over to them.

During the build, I'd called Manners and spoken to couple of people re the position of the front cup and made it quite clear what was required.

I made a further call to Manners over the course of the transaction following receipt of the invoice as it didn't mention the fitting of bottom metal.

The girl in the office assured me it had been fitted and the stock was ready to go and they had receieved my CC details and would be billing me shortly.

So some what dissapointed I called them on arrival of the stock and discussed the flush cup error, only to be told it wasn't possible to have the cup installed where I originally wanted it, ( front of the forearm, where the spigot for a bipod might go)...

I also mentioned that CDI Bottom metal was missing.

The bottom metal was tracked down in the office and they promissed to ship it out with the missing loops. I also confirmed with the girl that the stock had definitely been inlet for the bottom metal and she again assured me it had...

Roll on to today and the box containing theg bottom metal, two loops and two flush cups arrived.

And guess what, the stock has not been inlet for the bottom metal at all..

Looking at how the pillars protrude into the area where the bottom metal fits , I suspect that will be another complication as the pillars were obviously not fitted with the bottom metal in mind..

Up to now I have dealt with this direct with Manners via phone calls and email and given them a chance to sort this, but despite them saying the right things, the reality has been different.


So Manners, how are you finally going to sort this fisasco?

I am sure that the errors on the stock are correctable, but I don't really want a stock that has been "botched" to get the build right...

I originally wanted to use this rifle on a hunt this November and considering the group buy started in April with a 3 month anticipated delivery (yeah right!) I don't think that was unrealistic...I know thats not going to happen now, but I'm wondering whether to build my hopes up for it being right by the 2011 deer season??

Peter Evans






 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

Airing this issue in this forum is going to do what.
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

Have you called Manners and asked what they plan to do? Or do you just like slinging mud for everyone to see?
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

If you read the original post you will see i have emailed them and called previously, but despite this, I still haven't ended up with what i ordered.

I deliberately decided against posting when the stock originally turned up sans the bottom metal and with the flush cup in the wrong location to give them a chance of retifying it..

Instead I called and emailed them to discuss the issue and they still droped the ball..

(Edited to add, I have also emailed them again this morning about the same time I made the orignal post above, so they are aware of the issue and aware of this thread.)

 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Airing this issue in this forum is going to do what. </div></div>

I hope its going to achieve what phonecalls and emails direct to Manners have so far failed to achieve, and perhaps encourage them to get things right first time for other future customers.
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Airing this issue in this forum is going to do what. </div></div>

In reading the above I gather that he has attempted to resolve the issues by contacting the manufacturer and is unhappy with the product and service he has received.

It is perfectly acceptable for him to state that here. This is why forums are valuable. If another Manners customer has the same problem then they may find this thread and it may demonstrate a pattern. I am not saying this is the case here, but it serves as an example. Additionally this gives the folks at Manners a chance to demonstrate in public to potential customers how they handle the issue from this point forward.

Now I would have a different opinion if the OP came in here railing that all Manner products are trash, etc.
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

I'm with Lone Wolf here, if the OP has in fact made this many attempts at communication and is still not satisfied he does have the right express dissatisfaction.

That being said the folks at Manners are top notch people. Tom Manners puts as much or more effort out to customer satisfaction than anyone around.

Tom will not let this go unresolved! I'd bet any one of my Manners stocks on that!!
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

I just received my T2 from Tom. This is the second stock they've made for me.

The stock didn't ship a couples when they said, and there were a couple details that needed adjustment, but I'm very happy with the end result and would definitely deal with Tom again.

It was the same with my first stock. My impression from watching from the outside and talking to Tom and the girl up front, is that they go through periods of rather, um, rather hectic activity.

I'm VERY confident that Tom will sort this out for you. It's in his character. He really cares that his customers are happy with the end result.

You've been very patient. Just a little more...

Good luck.

John
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

I too agree with LoneWolf. As far as I can see, the proper procedure, and due diligence has taken place.

Interesting to see how this scenario pans out. Not often, do we hear about (A) being offered, and then (B) being delivered. At (C) time.

Or do we?
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">During the build, I'd called Manners and spoken to couple of people re the position of the front cup and made it quite clear what was required.
</div></div>

My question is did you talk with Tom specifically? I own one Manners Stock with a second one on the way and I have had nothing but a great buying experience with them. Anytime I had specific questions or wanted to make specific changes I would request to talk with Tom.

The inletting/fitting of bottom metal sounds like a legitimate issue and I would be upset. There was an obvious disconnect here and I would like to hear the other side of the story as well.

With that said I think its good to have posts like this that way potential customers can make a better informed decision on the product they are about to purchase and to help make companies aware of how their businesses are being run.
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

I also agree that the OP has taken the proper steps and in no way is out of line for posting his expierence with Manners here.

Personally, If I were Tom (or the owner of any company) I would appreciate posts such as this. It seems to me that Tom is a standup guy and probably has no knowledge of this situation. Posts like this will allow him to keep his company running smoothly and possible make personelle chnages if he deems them necessary.

Please keep us posted but I have an idea that you will be satisfied in the end.
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After a longer wait than originally anticipated, I received my group buy MSC-T a couple of weeks ago.

On examining the stock, I noticed that one of the cups had been installed in the wrong place, and the loops were missing, and there was no sign of the CDI bottom metal I'd had sent over to them.

During the build, I'd called Manners and spoken to couple of people re the position of the front cup and made it quite clear what was required.

I made a further call to Manners over the course of the transaction following receipt of the invoice as it didn't mention the fitting of bottom metal.

The girl in the office assured me it had been fitted and the stock was ready to go and they had receieved my CC details and would be billing me shortly.

So some what dissapointed I called them on arrival of the stock and discussed the flush cup error, only to be told it wasn't possible to have the cup installed where I originally wanted it, ( front of the forearm, where the spigot for a bipod might go)...

I also mentioned that CDI Bottom metal was missing.

The bottom metal was tracked down in the office and they promissed to ship it out with the missing loops. I also confirmed with the girl that the stock had definitely been inlet for the bottom metal and she again assured me it had...

Roll on to today and the box containing theg bottom metal, two loops and two flush cups arrived.

And guess what, the stock has not been inlet for the bottom metal at all..

Looking at how the pillars protrude into the area where the bottom metal fits , I suspect that will be another complication as the pillars were obviously not fitted with the bottom metal in mind..

Up to now I have dealt with this direct with Manners via phone calls and email and given them a chance to sort this, but despite them saying the right things, the reality has been different.


So Manners, how are you finally going to sort this fisasco?

I am sure that the errors on the stock are correctable, but I don't really want a stock that has been "botched" to get the build right...

I originally wanted to use this rifle on a hunt this November and considering the group buy started in April with a 3 month anticipated delivery (yeah right!) I don't think that was unrealistic...I know thats not going to happen now, but I'm wondering whether to build my hopes up for it being right by the 2011 deer season??

Peter Evans
</div></div> Hi Peter, If you would please email a picture of the bottom metal inlet, we had it down as a CDI and that is what you should have got. If it is not correct we will make it right.
On the cups, yes you where very clear on the locations of the cups. You had also called and talked to Todd about the locations. At that time he stated that he was not sure if we could do the cup in the very tip of the forend under the barrel channel, and it might have to go in standard location. He also said that there was no problem with the other cup that you wanted in the bottom of the grip. You had order a mcs-t stock through the Hide group buy , and we did it in a Howa 1500 with a large contour barrel. With this barrel contour, I felt that there was not enough room to install the cup and still guarantee function and structural integrity. We did not want to be the cause of a high dollar rifle getting trashed because of a cup problem. I will not guarantee that stock with a cup in that location. We went ahead and installed the cup in bottom of the grip per your location and one in the bottom of the forend in the standard location. Since you are overseas and had already talked to Todd about the cup issue we went ahead and sent the stock in this configuration.
When you had received the stock you had emailed us I think on the 7th and stated that you did not receive the loops and the CDI bottom metal that you had Jeff provide to us. You also stated that you where very unhappy with the front cup locations and wanted a $103.80US refund so that you could have a new cup installed in the tip of the stock. I was out of the shop and did not get back in until the 11th. On the 12th I tried to ring you and did not get through. I had the office email you and state that I called and could not get through nor did I get an answering machine to leave a message. Also in this email we stated that we expressed shipped the CDI trigger guard, loops and that I put in some loose cups for your smith to install. I am sorry that we did overlook and screwed this up at time of shipping this is why we expressed shipped it to you. You emailed the office back on the same day and said that we would have a hard time getting ahold of you because you are located overseas and the time frame difference, and no big deal and that you where going to wait on the bottom metal. I assumed that once you got the package that you would have contacted us again if you had any issues. Today you emailed the office and said that you where very disappointed and frustrated that the bottom metal did not fit, and that we could view how frustrated you where on the Hide and also provided a link for us to this thread.
As previous stated above please email pictures of the bottom metal and the inlet in the stock so that we can find out what has happened and figure out a solution. With that said, we have a 100% no question guarantee. If you are not happy we will refund you a 100% of your funds.
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm with Lone Wolf here, if the OP has in fact made this many attempts at communication and is still not satisfied he does have the right express dissatisfaction.

That being said the folks at Manners are top notch people. Tom Manners puts as much or more effort out to customer satisfaction than anyone around.

Tom will not let this go unresolved! I'd bet any one of my Manners stocks on that!! </div></div>

Their Ya Go!! Like I said. Clockwork!
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

There you go. Enough said. Manners has only done me right!!!!
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

yet another reason I am A 100% Manners Guy through and through now, customer is dissatisfied, thats fine and has the right, he even has the right to throw mud on here stating his concerns. What happens next, Thomas himself responds like a true proffesional stating the facts and the endstate, which is lets fix the situation....oh and by the way, if your not happy I will refund ALL your money! thats how you do business!
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

Tom Manners is a class act. This type of customer service simply does not exist in many places anymore. They made a mistake (everyone and every company does at some point in time) and will do whatever the customer wants to rectify the situation. Glad to hear that the OP's concerns will be taken care of and that there are still some people/companies that operate with dignity.

Sniper's Hide feel good story of the day.
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To

Tom is indeed a class act as are the people that work for him. Both Tom and Christie have gone to great lengths to insure that my order was correct and that I was 100% satisfied. Tom and company are great people and will get a lot of my business in the future. Many thanks Tom, Christie and company!
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thomas Manners</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hi Peter, If you would please email a picture of the bottom metal inlet, we had it down as a CDI and that is what you should have got. If it is not correct we will make it right.</div></div>
6ee02b6f.jpg


My main gripe hear is that on reflection, I asked your people in the office 3 times if the stock had been inlet for the CDI bottom metal..twice prior to it shipping (on one call I was told somebody had actually seen it fitted) and then a third time after the stock arrived sans the bottom metal and I suspected it wasn't correct.

Not sure how you intend to resolve this as the pillars are now in place, but what ever you decide is going to incur a further delay of a minimum of several weeks given shipping ect, plus how ever long it takes at your end...All this could have been avoided if somebody had actually physically checked the item when I called, not even mentioning the person building it right in the first place..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thomas Manners</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> On the cups, yes you where very clear on the locations of the cups. You had also called and talked to Todd about the locations. At that time he stated that he was not sure if we could do the cup in the very tip of the forend under the barrel channel, and it might have to go in standard location. He also said that there was no problem with the other cup that you wanted in the bottom of the grip. You had order a mcs-t stock through the Hide group buy , and we did it in a Howa 1500 with a large contour barrel. With this barrel contour, I felt that there was not enough room to install the cup and still guarantee function and structural integrity. We did not want to be the cause of a high dollar rifle getting trashed because of a cup problem. I will not guarantee that stock with a cup in that location. We went ahead and installed the cup in bottom of the grip per your location and one in the bottom of the forend in the standard location. Since you are overseas and had already talked to Todd about the cup issue we went ahead and sent the stock in this configuration. [/qoute]

I had no such email until I called yourselves about the invoice or CC details, by which time the cups had been installed and the stock was ready to ship.

Thomas Manners said:
When you had received the stock you had emailed us I think on the 7th and stated that you did not receive the loops and the CDI bottom metal that you had Jeff provide to us. You also stated that you where very unhappy with the front cup locations and wanted a $103.80US refund so that you could have a new cup installed in the tip of the stock. I was out of the shop and did not get back in until the 11th. On the 12th I tried to ring you and did not get through. I had the office email you and state that I called and could not get through nor did I get an answering machine to leave a message. Also in this email we stated that we expressed shipped the CDI trigger guard, loops and that I put in some loose cups for your smith to install. I am sorry that we did overlook and screwed this up at time of shipping this is why we expressed shipped it to you. You emailed the office back on the same day and said that we would have a hard time getting ahold of you because you are located overseas and the time frame difference, and no big deal and that you where going to wait on the bottom metal. </div></div>

The email I sent following receipt of the stock and after speaking to Christie actually said (in part):

"<span style="font-style: italic">As you never sent the three loops that you invoiced me for anyway, please don't bother, and just refund me for the loops, the flush cups and the installation of the flush cups, which I calculate to be $103.80 based on the prices charged in my invoice.

I will then use this money to get the flush cups filled in and the stock repainted to cover the repair.</span>"

So I never asked for further flush cups, mostly based on Manners recommendation against fitting them in the tip. My intention was to get the existing ones filled in and the stock touch-up/repainted locally...

Given that, I was surprised when you said you intended to send the loops and two additional cups in the follow up package, but at that point I'd pretty much given up and just wanted to get my hands on the bottom metal.

If the bottom metal had arrived and had it fitted, I'd have just drawn a line under the incident and got the stock sorted locally. Receiving the bottom metal and finding the stock had not being correctly inlet despite the assurances to the contrary, was just the final straw, and the motivation for starting this thread.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thomas Manners</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I assumed that once you got the package that you would have contacted us again if you had any issues. Today you emailed the office and said that you where very disappointed and frustrated that the bottom metal did not fit, and that we could view how frustrated you where on the Hide and also provided a link for us to this thread.
As previous stated above please email pictures of the bottom metal and the inlet in the stock so that we can find out what has happened and figure out a solution. With that said, we have a 100% no question guarantee. If you are not happy we will refund you a 100% of your funds. </div></div>

Frustrated? Yes, very....More so because I actually like the stock itself, but at the moment its just an expensive paperweight.

And frustrated because it is going to take several weeks to to sort out something that could have been easily avoided in the first place..
Click to expand...
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

pete, initially i was with you in that you have a dissatisfaction with a product, voice it to whatever means you felt necessary to get results, but now your just coming off like a jackass!

The owner of the company that made your product got back with you trying to resolve the problem, very respectfully i might add not getting into a pissing match, he just explained the situation as it occurred on his end. And all you keep doing is crying about "if it wouldve been done right the first time", well Thomas Manners never said there wasnt some error on their part or miscommunication, he just said he wanted to fix it.

Why sling mud over and over, you made your point and they want to help you be a happy customer, move on....OR take Thomas up on his offer and get a 100% refund and whittle your own stock
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pete, initially i was with you in that you have a dissatisfaction with a product, voice it to whatever means you felt necessary to get results, but now your just coming off like a jackass!</div></div>

First, I really don't care what you think, which might save you time and effort in posting further on this thread.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The owner of the company that made your product got back with you trying to resolve the problem, very respectfully i might add not getting into a pissing match, he just explained the situation as it occurred on his end. And all you keep doing is crying about "if it wouldve been done right the first time", well Thomas Manners never said there wasnt some error on their part or miscommunication, he just said he wanted to fix it.</div></div>

So wanting something right in the first place is wrong?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Why sling mud over and over, you made your point and they want to help you be a happy customer, move on....OR take Thomas up on his offer and get a 100% refund and whittle your own stock </div></div>

I am not slinging further mud at all. I have posted the picture as requested and simply responded to the rest of Mr Manners post both for his information and out of courtesy to others reading this..

I hope we can get this resolved, because as I said in my previous post, I actually like the stock; if the stock had been a heap of crap, I would have gladly taken a refund and looked else where, but thats not the case.

 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

For peoples information, I have just received a very helpful and courteous phone call from Mr Manners offering a couple of suggestions on how to get this rectified plus some advice/discussion on the location of the front flush cup, which I am going to follow.

I am confident now that a solution is to hand and that Mr Manners will make it happen at his end.

I have also received an unsolictated and very kind offer of help from Peter Lincon, who used to deal with Manners.

Peter also made a couple of constructive suggestions which were very much along the lines of some of those by Mr Manners, but which will now not be needed.

Many thanks to both gentlemen, and to the forum for allowing me to air this...
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.


Nobody on this side of the pond with any sense doubted Manners. Including NOBODY.
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

Pete E, I have a question, Did you believe that Manners was finished trying to resolve this issue with you before you posted this thread?
 
Re: Manners Stock 3630: Very Dissappointed Up To Now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pete E, I have a question, Did you believe that Manners was finished trying to resolve this issue with you before you posted this thread? </div></div>

Excuse me not answering directly, but as Mr Manners has gone out of his way to call and we have arrived at an amicable solution, I don't wish to fan any flames further...
 
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