Manners to arca rail issues. Help needed

Sogan

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 11, 2013
1,385
499
I’m hoping you guys can help me out here. It appears that I am stacking tolerances with two products: arca rail and manners stock. Both of them, when laid across a level begin to rise up towards the end. If I do nothing with them and just torque them down then I get an arch and a gap between the front action screw and the bipod stud screw area, which is what I am trying to avoid because I would assume that can’t be ideal for accuracy. Here are the two products against a level (I’m using a light to try and make it easier to see in the photos).

The gaps are very obvious in person but the lower quality of photos from uploading them don’t make it as easy to see and downplays the gap some I think.

Here it is with ONLY the front action screw torqued down. The closer I get to 65inch pounds the more the muzzle end wants to rise up:
024C7BA7-7504-40D6-A1A5-65F6A5BA2328.jpeg

Manners PRS2:
873756A9-8301-464B-9CF9-EA0EDE661F87.jpeg

Arca rail:
6283524B-8CCB-469A-9065-D8E3B7F7D57C.jpeg


If I just attach them using the front action screw and the bipod stud I get this arc in the middle(on my phone it shows the gap clear as day but it’s harder to see them when I upload the photos for some reason maybe just because it downgrades the quality?)

AB74E6E7-EA69-400B-B279-9DE7020F2D8F.jpeg



I tried to add a washer to the bipod stud area which at least gives me a consistent gap the whole time but again not sure what is ideal or what I need to do. Here’s the consistent gap with the washer:
13AF4C1F-8916-41DA-9EC0-8FC51AFEF324.jpeg


What’s the hides thoughts on how I need to proceed? Does everyone’s do this or do I have an issue here?
 

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Last edited:

Simia Dei

Boendr
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 11, 2017
918
1,640
I had the same issue with both of these, not to that extent though. Two extra T nuts solved it and was easy to do as well, did them with the hand drill and a dremel.
B7EA55DA-97D2-4A0A-89B2-6B6795309761.jpeg
 

z28kid

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 3, 2012
421
80
33
Middle TN
I had the same issue, added one t nut in the position closest to the front action screw.
20200504_185252.jpg


I also machined a spacer to fill the gap between the rail and the counterbore where the front action screw goes. I did this to help eliminate warp of the arca rail when front action screw is torqued.
 

b6graham

MMPRL
Full Member
Minuteman
Supporter+
  • Jul 29, 2014
    7,222
    6,365
    Colorado
    Not sure why my comment never posted here but I believe I have 4 connections to the stock on my 14" rail
     

    tmanners

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 3, 2006
    497
    340
    1232 swift, NKC, MO.
    I’m hoping you guys can help me out here. It appears that I am stacking tolerances with two products: arca rail and manners stock. Both of them, when laid across a level begin to rise up towards the end. If I do nothing with them and just torque them down then I get an arch and a gap between the front action screw and the bipod stud screw area, which is what I am trying to avoid because I would assume that can’t be ideal for accuracy. Here are the two products against a level (I’m using a light to try and make it easier to see in the photos).

    The gaps are very obvious in person but the lower quality of photos from uploading them don’t make it as easy to see and downplays the gap some I think.

    Here it is with ONLY the front action screw torqued down. The closer I get to 65inch pounds the more the muzzle end wants to rise up:

    Manners PRS2:

    Arca rail:


    If I just attach them using the front action screw and the bipod stud I get this arc in the middle(on my phone it shows the gap clear as day but it’s harder to see them when I upload the photos for some reason maybe just because it downgrades the quality?)




    I tried to add a washer to the bipod stud area which at least gives me a consistent gap the whole time but again not sure what is ideal or what I need to do. Here’s the consistent gap with the washer:


    What’s the hides thoughts on how I need to proceed? Does everyone’s do this or do I have an issue here?
    Hi sogan, shoot me a pm with your contact information, I’ll give you a buzz. We do not recommend using a longer than factory speced front action screw to mount a 419 Arca rail on a stock with a mini chassis or any other bottom metal, the reason for this is that you run into a possibility for movement and loss torque specs while shooting. The torque specs on the mini chassis are 65 inch pounds, the front action screw must be seated to the chassis with nothing between the head and the screw cup. The Arca rail will take a ton of abuse while shooting, mostly from the stress of slamming into barricades and the force applied to the stock that is transferred to the rail. During that force we don’t want to see any movement in that rail. Movement in that rail may cause the loosing of the front action screw which will cause torque loss. Once I have a gun setup and torqued I don’t want it changing from shot to shot. When 419 rails are installed at the shop, we mill the rail so the factory minichassis screw will drop thru the rail, then we add xtra screws and t-nuts. Also depending on what model of stock, we actually might add some bedding to make sure the rail is flush to the bottom of the stock. Just about all stocks out there will have a different angle between the bottom of the forend and the angle of the bottom metal area where the front action screw is installed, if that makes sense. If that screw goes thru the rail and is not at a 90degree, it will not fully seat a 100%. Some guys will run the factory screw under the rail, when barreled action is taken out, the screw stays sandwiched between the chassis and rail, nothing is wrong with that, but I would prefer that each time the barreled action is taken out, the front screw is cleaned and oiled before reinstall and touqed. On the new custom mcs-tcs stock 419/mcs tunable weighted Arca rail, the rail actually bolts direct to the chassis about a half inch forward of the front action screw with a 1/4x20 bolt, it takes the force of the rail and transfers it to the chassis direct without affecting the action screws. For guys that need screws and some t-nuts I would be more than happy to shoot them out, just send me a pm. Thank you
     
    Last edited:

    Rocketmandb

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  • Nov 2, 2018
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    On the new custom mcs-tcs stock 419/mcs tunable weighted Arca rail actually bolts direct to the chassis about a half inch forward of the front action screw with a 1/4x20 bolt, it takes the force of the rail and transfers it to the chassis direct without affecting the action screws.

    I know this isn't the thread for this, but any update on when the new TCS stocks are going to ship? Anxiously waiting :)
     

    Cascade Hemi

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    Feb 9, 2019
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    I had to bed my rail to my T4. The stock wasn't flat and I didn't feel like the imparted bend in the rail was a good idea after installing T nuts.
     

    chadrp

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 12, 2017
    394
    126
    Central Iowa
    @tmanners or anyone else who may know.

    Can an additional t nut be added to a PRS1T stock with gen2 mini chassis at the larger hole (made for the mini chaasis barricade stop i think) in the Area 419 rail just forward of the front action screw without interference with the mini chassis?

    I had Manners install the t nuts for my 419 rail, but no t nut was put there and when not using the action screw and my rifle is on my tripod, the rail has a slight flex that could be eliminated with a screw in this location as thats where it balances well on my tripod.
    Thanks
     

    tmanners

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 3, 2006
    497
    340
    1232 swift, NKC, MO.
    @tmanners or anyone else who may know.

    Can an additional t nut be added to a PRS1T stock with gen2 mini chassis at the larger hole (made for the mini chaasis barricade stop i think) in the Area 419 rail just forward of the front action screw without interference with the mini chassis?

    I had Manners install the t nuts for my 419 rail, but no t nut was put there and when not using the action screw and my rifle is on my tripod, the rail has a slight flex that could be eliminated with a screw in this location as thats where it balances well on my tripod.
    Thanks
    Hi Chadrp, Yes no problem on adding t-nuts in the stock. Also if iam understanding you correctly, yes on bolting the rail to the barricade attachment hole on the gen2 barricade mini chassis. That is a very solid and stable location. At that location, it will transfer all the stress to the chassis but not the action screw mounting locations. I would need to see what version of 419 rail you have, I know that they have a version just for the gen2 barricade mini chassis. Shoot me pm, I will give you a buzz, I can get you fixed up no matter what version you are running. Thank you
     
    Last edited:

    chadrp

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 12, 2017
    394
    126
    Central Iowa
    Hi Chadrp, Yes no problem on adding t-nuts in the stock. Also if iam understanding you correctly, yes on bolting the rail to the barricade attachment hole on the gen2 barricade mini chassis. That is a very solid and stable location. At that location, it will transfer all the stress to the chassis but not the action screw mounting locations. I would need to see what version of 419 rail you have, I know that they have a version just for the gen2 barricade mini chassis. Shoot me pm, I will give you a buzz, I can get you fixed up no matter what version you are running. Thank you
    Pm sent Thanks!
     

    ranger0787

    Private
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    Dec 13, 2007
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    South Florida
    www.theshusterteam.com
    Hi sogan, shoot me a pm with your contact information, I’ll give you a buzz. We do not recommend using a longer than factory speced front action screw to mount a 419 Arca rail on a stock with a mini chassis or any other bottom metal, the reason for this is that you run into a possibility for movement and loss torque specs while shooting. The torque specs on the mini chassis are 65 inch pounds, the front action screw must be seated to the chassis with nothing between the head and the screw cup. The Arca rail will take a ton of abuse while shooting, mostly from the stress of slamming into barricades and the force applied to the stock that is transferred to the rail. During that force we don’t want to see any movement in that rail. Movement in that rail may cause the loosing of the front action screw which will cause torque loss. Once I have a gun setup and torqued I don’t want it changing from shot to shot. When 419 rails are installed at the shop, we mill the rail so the factory minichassis screw will drop thru the rail, then we add xtra screws and t-nuts. Also depending on what model of stock, we actually might add some bedding to make sure the rail is flush to the bottom of the stock. Just about all stocks out there will have a different angle between the bottom of the forend and the angle of the bottom metal area where the front action screw is installed, if that makes sense. If that screw goes thru the rail and is not at a 90degree, it will not fully seat a 100%. Some guys will run the factory screw under the rail, when barreled action is taken out, the screw stays sandwiched between the chassis and rail, nothing is wrong with that, but I would prefer that each time the barreled action is taken out, the front screw is cleaned and oiled before reinstall and touqed. On the new custom mcs-tcs stock 419/mcs tunable weighted Arca rail, the rail actually bolts direct to the chassis about a half inch forward of the front action screw with a 1/4x20 bolt, it takes the force of the rail and transfers it to the chassis direct without affecting the action screws. For guys that need screws and some t-nuts I would be more than happy to shoot them out, just send me a pm. Thank you
    I just picked up a Manners LRH Stock for my Pierce Ti 300 Win Mag. I too, want to add a 12" Area 419 Arca rail to the underside of the Manners stock. I tried a 10" universal rail attached between the bipod stud an a screw in front of the action screw. There is a "Bowing" of the Arca Rail and/or stock. I don't like the fact that there is tension in both systems. I was planning on bedding the Arca rail to the underside of the stock with Marine Tex and using some stainless washers as "Spacers". The original LRH stock has @ a 3.25" small Arca rail in front of the magazine with a rounded notch cut out of the rail. My plan was to duplicate the notch on the Area 419 Arca Rail, set the rail back to where the original lies and figure out where the mid-point of the bow is. The Area 419 barricade stop would then be installed over top where the front action screw is so it would still be able to be loosend/tightened irrespective of the rail. That would also move the balance point towards the magwell/mini-chassis. I'd then fill the relieved areas under the Area419 rail with putty/play-doh so excess bedding compound wouldn't fill up all the relieved areas of aluminum. The plan is to support the rail by using stacked stainless washers and build up the voids with bedding compound so as to offer a stress-free rail to stock interface; Kind of like when you epoxy-bed a picatinny scope rail to the action. Do you forsee any problems with my intentions?
     

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    ranger0787

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    Dec 13, 2007
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    South Florida
    www.theshusterteam.com
    I’m hoping you guys can help me out here. It appears that I am stacking tolerances with two products: arca rail and manners stock. Both of them, when laid across a level begin to rise up towards the end. If I do nothing with them and just torque them down then I get an arch and a gap between the front action screw and the bipod stud screw area, which is what I am trying to avoid because I would assume that can’t be ideal for accuracy. Here are the two products against a level (I’m using a light to try and make it easier to see in the photos).

    The gaps are very obvious in person but the lower quality of photos from uploading them don’t make it as easy to see and downplays the gap some I think.

    Here it is with ONLY the front action screw torqued down. The closer I get to 65inch pounds the more the muzzle end wants to rise up:
    View attachment 7342059
    Manners PRS2:
    View attachment 7342041
    Arca rail:
    View attachment 7342042

    If I just attach them using the front action screw and the bipod stud I get this arc in the middle(on my phone it shows the gap clear as day but it’s harder to see them when I upload the photos for some reason maybe just because it downgrades the quality?)

    View attachment 7342043


    I tried to add a washer to the bipod stud area which at least gives me a consistent gap the whole time but again not sure what is ideal or what I need to do. Here’s the consistent gap with the washer:
    View attachment 7342044

    What’s the hides thoughts on how I need to proceed? Does everyone’s do this or do I have an issue here?
    Thank you for this. I'm dealing with the same situation now.
     

    Jabot

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Sep 2, 2014
    1,737
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    I just picked up a Manners LRH Stock for my Pierce Ti 300 Win Mag. I too, want to add a 12" Area 419 Arca rail to the underside of the Manners stock. I tried a 10" universal rail attached between the bipod stud an a screw in front of the action screw. There is a "Bowing" of the Arca Rail and/or stock. I don't like the fact that there is tension in both systems. I was planning on bedding the Arca rail to the underside of the stock with Marine Tex and using some stainless washers as "Spacers". The original LRH stock has @ a 3.25" small Arca rail in front of the magazine with a rounded notch cut out of the rail. My plan was to duplicate the notch on the Area 419 Arca Rail, set the rail back to where the original lies and figure out where the mid-point of the bow is. The Area 419 barricade stop would then be installed over top where the front action screw is so it would still be able to be loosend/tightened irrespective of the rail. That would also move the balance point towards the magwell/mini-chassis. I'd then fill the relieved areas under the Area419 rail with putty/play-doh so excess bedding compound wouldn't fill up all the relieved areas of aluminum. The plan is to support the rail by using stacked stainless washers and build up the voids with bedding compound so as to offer a stress-free rail to stock interface; Kind of like when you epoxy-bed a picatinny scope rail to the action. Do you forsee any problems with my intentions?
    That's crazy install a tnut in the stock half way between bipod stud and the mounting holes for the manners arca rail. Bedding a arca rail on is not necessary
     
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