Rifle Scopes  Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

furburner

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Hey guys, need help was looking at these Scopes are they really worth price vs Super Sniper or a Zeiss of same price. Looking for wisdom any would help. Right now I'm still shooting through an old 3/12/56 Steiner Scope. Want a new one for M40A1 clone like the looks of leupy. Thanks guys
 

SigsauerP229

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Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

I have a 3-10X40 illuminated LR/T and compared to a lot of scopes I'd say it's worth it. Compared to the two you mentioned though I couldn't say as I have no experience with them.
 

snipedogg

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Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

I'd definitely say it is worth 1K. You can't go comparing it to the SS bc the SS is a FFP while the Leupold is SFP. If that isn't an important matter to you, then I think the Leupold is worth it.
 

furburner

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Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

Thanks Snipe, that's kinda info this newbie is looking for I just threw out a couple of scope names looking for all input that is free. Thanks
 

BCP

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    If you decide to sell your steiner PM me. I had a 3-12 hunting model on a rifle years ago and it was a nice scope.
     

    sweetbeard

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    Yes but it depends on the price..

    I have a Mark4 LR/T 4x14 ILLUM. TMR and I paid $1100 for it..

    It is awesome but I wouldn't have paid any more for it..

    but it all depends on if you need all the ninja stuff like FFP or zero stop.. I didn't.
     

    TallShot

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    I have an older 4.5-14 and like it for what it is. Not sure if i'd pay 1k for it with all the other options out there.
     

    furburner

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    TALLSHOT why do you say that is there something about your scope that doesn't justify itself for how much you paid? Do you feel like there's better for same money??
     

    TallShot

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    I didn't say it wasn't justified.

    After shooting with several different scopes though, in my opinion, I have found that there's nothing really "wrong" with it, but rather the glass is ok, the turrets are ok, and the construction is ok, it's been reliable.

    So nothing bad, but nothing stands out as awesome, either. So I feel there may be other options out there for that amount of money with better than "ok" performance. I'm certainly not a Leupy hater; in fact I really want to try their new FFP's and M5 turrets. But again, there's that whole cost thing vs performance.
     

    Northland

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    I doubt I'd ever buy a brand new one, but the used ones have some really nice prices.
     

    Rovieairto

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    I think a mk4 would be a legit scope for your rifle.

    I own quite a few mark 4's, all 3.5-10x40mm models.
    I just bought two recently.
    $665 for one and $850 for the other. (fair prices for these optics)
    I've shot with the 4.5-14's and they are fine scopes as well.
    A lot of fine aiming can be done with 10 power, if the glass is clear enough.
    It's a solid, repeatable, and dependable aiming device.
    If it ever isn't, Leupold will fix it for free, irregardless of how old it is, no B.S. or receipt required.
    Buy it used here and you should be able to recover most all of the cost if you decide to sell.
    They are a much more solid commodity than most scopes you could buy.
    The military has bought literally thousands of mk-4's for their rifles, so there will be plenty of folks familiar with them for years to come.

    Look through some US optics glass however, and you will realize that you could save money on a spotting scope because the glass is so good that you won't need one.
    This is not true of the mark-4 glass.

    You get what you pay for.
    I think they work fine.
     

    ranger0888

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    You get what you pay for.its worth it. I bauht the swfa 20 fixed sscard. They sent me a tasco I've been fighting with them for over a hear. I tested the swfa at ft Lewis it was ok. Its no leupod.and that 110% back up is vs.. there giveong me all kinds run arounds to fix it.stay with what got you to the fight. U never regret getting better but you always regret getting something worse. ..Sfc j Ingram. R L T W......
     

    Northland

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 4xlucky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You get what you pay for.its worth it. I bauht the swfa 20 fixed sscard. They sent me a tasco I've been fighting with them for over a hear. I tested the swfa at ft Lewis it was ok. Its no leupod.and that 110% back up is vs.. there giveong me all kinds run arounds to fix it.stay with what got you to the fight. U never regret getting better but you always regret getting something worse. ..Sfc j Ingram. R L T W...... </div></div>

    What....?
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    I guess I am the odd duck here; they are nice but not 1000 dollar nice IMHO. I can’t comment on Zeiss because I have never owned one, the Super Sniper I have is the 5-20 and that is night and day better than all but one Leupold I have owned (which was not a MK4). Not sure on any other SS products though.

    That said, I still buy MK4’s, but only when the price is more than reasonable... for me that is 800 and less. Those will be used though and many folks want new. But hey, maybe I will buy yours in a few years
    smirk.gif


    When looking for a top end of 10x and non-matching reticle/turrets, I honestly feel the Nikon Tactical is a better product.
     

    furburner

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    thanks again guys, I have a 4.5/14/44 mil dot zeiss, i also have a steiner 12 power scope as well as a buckmaster 18 bdc. I also have a swarovski 18 power. I have some glass but i like looks and slenderness of 3.5/10or14 leupy for packing around and hunting. In older days liked pulling out big ass spotting scope on top of rifle. but for hunting became cumbersome. I was looking for something shape size not as much $$$ as mst-100. liked looks of leupy just kinda feel like i was downgradeing in glass department. theres crystal, then there is shot glass?
     

    trevor300wsm

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    Leupold MK4 is going to give you alot of the features and all the magnification you get with other "tactical" scopes in a much smaller and light weight package. Most of your tactical scopes are coming in at ~ 30oz+ and the MK4's are at ~22oz.

    Take a SSHD 5-20 and set it side by side with a MK4 FFP M5 6.5-20. The SSHD is a overweight slob dwarfing the MK4 in both size and weight......for what reason? What is gained by this monstrous overall size? They both have a 30mm tube, FFP, Mil turrets, similar magnification, but Leupold puts it in a better package while for some reason SWFA had to make theirs so much larger.

    Guys, if you've spent anytime on here at all you should know by now "glass quality" in terms of what's "brighter/clearer" is 99% user subjective. It is absolutely ridiculous to say the SSHD is so much better glass than a MK4 or vice versa. In a blind comparison most of the people would have no clue of they were looking through a MK4, SSHD, NF, or USO.

    GO SHOOT!!
     

    coldboremiracle

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    The value of a scope depends on many factors, I have the following scopes, and I suppose I'll list roughly what I paid for them and my impressions.

    Leupold MKIV 4.5-14X50 M1 mil dot, I paid 850 dollars
    grin.gif
    for this scope 4 years or so ago, I have it mounted on my RRA/LAR AR-15. It has been a great little scope, I love the clarity, the simplicity, the repeatable accuracy, large window of adjustment's. I have regularly shot to 1k and back since I purchased the combo, I have to say it is a great setup and I feel very confident with the scope. If I had to say something negative about it, it would be that I could use a little more magnification for those really long shots. But It is not a big deal, my overall opinion of this scope? Its probably #3 on my list of go to optics that I currently shoot. Very happy with the scope and the price I paid for it.
    DSCF5679.jpg


    Leupold MKIV 6.5-20X50 M1 ILLUM TMR If I recall I paid just under 1300 for this scope about 6 years ago, I probably could have got it for less but I was in a hurry. This scope has been my load carrier for the last several years, It is mounted on a Savage 10 fcp in .308. I <span style="font-weight: bold">LOVE</span> this scope, it has been used more than all my others combined probably, and in much harsher weather and aggressive fashion. I have drug the rifle through many a blizzard, drippy forest, and dusted out in the hot dry desert. It's been bumped against rocks, trees, dumped off the back of a tailgate but it just keeps on tickin like the day it was installed. I have shot the rifle to 1400yds and back before, the scope is always dialing up and down, never had any issues with tracking (that I know of)
    The glass is clear as a bell, and I can look through it all day. I am extremely happy with the purchase of this scope, it has been worth every penny. It would probably be #1 on my list of go to scopes.

    DSCF5530.jpg


    Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP EBR-1 I have had this scope since may of 2010, purchased for around 800$ at Cameraland. It has quickly become one of my favorite scopes, almost to the same level as my MKIV6.5-20 above. The features of this scope are far better than the MKIV scopes I have, the zero stop is very convinient, the FFP is something I'll never live with out again, the 4-16 power range is just right for the custom .223 it rides on, the reticle is very useful and in my opinion the best I've used, my only complaint would be to open the center like the TMR. This is also my first MIL/MIL scope, I much prefer the MIL over MOA. And this scope has been fantastic at teaching me to use it. I have shot the host rifle to 1300ish yds and back regularly, and the Viper doesn't skip a beat. Its always on track, and has made a boringly accurate rifle more so. This scope is almost tied for first place in my book, only things keeping it from pushing my 6.5-20 out of its place is it's on duty time, its still relatively new to the collection. As well as the MKIV's have in my eye, a slight optical advantage, not much, but just enough to notice after shooting one all day and then switch to another. This scope still comes in a very close #2 on my list. And worth every penny, if not more!

    DSCF5537.jpg


    SuperSniper 5-20X50HD I got in on the group buy for this scope, I actually got 4 of them, one for me and brothers. The 1000$ group buy price was a very good value in my opinion, as this scope is definitely
    Worth more than that. Again the features of this scope are full of win, the FFP is very handy, the reticle is very useful, again MIL/MIL, the 5-20 power range is just right for my eyes, even though I rarely shoot over 16X with any scope, and usually more into the 12X range. The only complaint I have about the SS is the poor illumination of the reticle, myself and several others have been discussing it as it seems to be a widespread problem. I am somewhat troubled with SWFA's silence in the threads discussing it. But being that illumination is not that big of a deal to me, I'm not too worried, I have only used illumination three times, and in those situations, this scope would have worked as is. While My SS still rest's in its box awaiting a host, we have since mounted another on a new rifle of my brother's. I haven't had much experience with this scope so I will not be putting a rating of it on my list of "go to's". I am however, very very confident that once in service this scope will jump to the top as #1. Its optical clarity is beyond the MKIV's and PST, it has all the best features (except ZS) and I simply cannot wait to get this scope mounted and use it.

    DSCF6109.jpg



    So there is a little comparison of some scopes, everyone of them good, I would be happy to spend the rest of my life using any one of them.
     

    Rovieairto

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    The USO glass is like looking at the world through a crystal ball.
    I can see mirage with those scopes that I cannot see with my mk-4.
    Seeing mirage is a big reason I'll look through a spotting scope to begin with.
    This is not really a subjective quality.
    Seeing the wind is hugely important if you want to deal with it properly.
    I learned this while shooting.

    I like the size, shape, weight, and cost of the mk-4's.
    They are fairly compact.
     

    trevor300wsm

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The USO glass is like looking at the world through a crystal ball.
    I can see mirage with those scopes that I cannot see with my mk-4.
    Seeing mirage is a big reason I'll look through a spotting scope to begin with.
    This is not really a subjective quality.
    Seeing the wind is hugely important if you want to deal with it properly.
    I learned this while shooting.

    I like the size, shape, weight, and cost of the mk-4's.
    They are fairly compact.</div></div>

    That's why I will stand firm in saying its all subjective. Just as you say that the USO glass is clearly superior, I've heard many, even recently, say that the glass was very unimpressive, regardless of price. Now, keep in mind these are people that are using PH, USO, and S&B. It's all about what YOU see. That is a variable that can't be rated. I see your comment about mirage and I'm going to refrain from commenting on it since it will only lead us further off track into even more subjective grounds.
     

    trevor300wsm

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    Coldbore......what upper receivers on on the 2 AR's?
     

    Jon A

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a SSHD 5-20 and set it side by side with a MK4 FFP M5 6.5-20. The SSHD is a overweight slob dwarfing the MK4 in both size and weight......for what reason? What is gained by this monstrous overall size? </div></div>
    Maybe some of the very same reasons NF makes their scopes almost exactly the same size? Keep in mind, that model Leupold began life as a hunting/varmint scope, so in a size/weight comparison with ground-up heavy duty tactical designs it'll clearly have an advantage.
     

    trevor300wsm

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a SSHD 5-20 and set it side by side with a MK4 FFP M5 6.5-20. The SSHD is a overweight slob dwarfing the MK4 in both size and weight......for what reason? What is gained by this monstrous overall size? </div></div>
    Maybe some of the very same reasons NF makes their scopes almost exactly the same size? Keep in mind, that model Leupold began life as a hunting/varmint scope, so in a size/weight comparison with ground-up heavy duty tactical designs it'll clearly have an advantage.</div></div>

    Holy hell......well isn't that what everyone on here talks about and spends the extra money for.......the advantage!! I love NF scopes and would have them on all my hunting rifles if it wasn't for their overall size and weight. However, I don't have them on any of my hunting rifles anymore except for one 7WSM.....and it's certainly not due to financial restraints. It's by choice.
     

    Jon A

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    I fully agree there are applications for which smaller and lighter scopes may be desirable. This year I hunted with a 3-24X March. And yes, that size advantage cost a pretty penny.

    But at least in that case, I felt the level of quality somewhat justified the higher price. I don't get that same feeling with the Leupolds as I feel if anything they're a step down from the SS/NF. I hope to change my mind when I get my hands on some of the new MK 8's and MK 6's. More good choices means tougher competition which benefits the end users.
     

    para1505

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    I shoot with two other guys that both use MK4's 4.5-14x50mm. One is FFP, MLR. The other is a SFP, mildot. They both seem like very good scopes. I never hear either of them ever complain about their optics. I also read SS was mentioned. I do not have the 5-20. I use the 10x42HD MILQUAD. I love it, I am completely amazed by the clarity of glass and tracking ability. If I was you furburner thats is the scope I would put on your M40A1.
     

    DP425

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    For a tactical scope, there are many, many better choices than the Mk4's. The price point for the features just does not seem to match up very well.

    Mind you, just because the military uses it, does not mean it's the best option. Hell, it doesn't even mean it's the best option for a certain price point. All it means is they use it- for what reason could run the gamut from stock options and a retirement job for some purchasing officer or ordinance General, ability to supply the volume needed, entrenched tradition or even looks.

    Out of 15 straight from KAC M110's, two had Mk4 M2's that would not track, one that would not hold zero. And these are brand new. Not to say they cannot be reliable, but I feel it speaks for itself. Further, size and weight are a bi-product of a desired standard in durability. Give a sniper an option of two equally spec'ed scopes, one 30% smaller and lighter than the other, but 20% more likely to malfunction the choice... he'll take the heavier and bigger one every time. That is proven daily by the number of unit or individual supplied larger and heavier scopes that replace a functioning Mk4 on M110's, M24's, M107's... and very likely M2010's.

    Okay so after all of that, I'm sure it sounds like I have a big hard-on for bashing the Mk4 line... I don't. I do believe you can get more for your money and that they are a bit lacking in durability for combat purposes... But, for other purposes they may very will do exactly what you need. And actually, if you want a tactical style scope for a hunting rig where weight is an issue, it may be a top contender.

    So my thoughts- if tactical is the prime use, look else where. If hunting is the prime use, with the desire to have a tactical style while keeping weight low- keep the Mk4's on your list. Prior to the M5/M6/M8, I would NOT have said this- I see zero reason to have your ret angle of measure different than your turret angle of measure.

    Like all things, intended use is a prime factor on the value of a specific item.



    Oh and one last thing- Zeiss was mentioned; I do not own a zeiss scope, but I do have Victory series bino's and range finder- the optics of which are better than any other brand of similar price bino's and LRF I've looked through. And optical quality is NOT 99% subjective. Light transmission and resolution CAN be measured. An assessment lacking these measurements IS subjective, but even then it does not mean a subjective assessment is incorrect. If someone says they think Leupold has clearer and brighter glass than BSA, while this is subjective, it is also known fact. To say Leupold's glass in their Mk4's competes with that of euro optics maker's (S&B, Hensoldt, Swavorski, Ziess) top tier lenses would be entirely incorrect. I'm 100% positive that if you were able to get the test numbers it would be evident. That is, assuming Leupold even tests their lenses for resolution. You can bet your ass Zeiss and Swavorski do given their various other optical ventures.
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But, for other purposes they may very will do exactly what you need. And actually, if you want a tactical style scope for a hunting rig where weight is an issue, it may be a top contender. </div></div>

    montana2011004-1.jpg


    And that is the exact reason I chose a MK4 3.5-10x40 M2 to put on my hunting rig; size, weight, with a rapid 1/2 moa adjustment, turn limiter and relatively close BDC knob... But only after zeroing at 100y and verifying the tracking on the range that it was good to go with my known drop data at all distances.

    The optics in this particular MK4 are about the worst I’ve experienced from leupold, with clear image distortions once you are looking outside the mill'ed area of the TMR reticle. It’s not going to keep me from killing critters though.
    grin.gif


    montana2011013-1.jpg
     

    jasonZ

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    I own the same scope you're asking about, but mines mildot. Is it worth the cost well probably. Is the glass good, yes. Is it reliable and repeatable, yes. Is there anything awesome about, not in my opinion. Would I do it again, well I might opt for something else. I'm not bagging or bragging on it, so don't take any of this wrong. The biggest downfall to buying new is right out the gate, unless you got a really good deal new, you'd most likely take a decent hit in resale value. I've been trying to watch all the used sales to see what's happening. What I've noticed is that fairly new scope, in good condition to excellent condition, are having trouble selling for over $1k! That's my biggest gripe to em really. I think they are a good scope and the will stand up to the test, but I also think there are other options in the same price point that will give you as good or better results.

    I have not compared this scope to either that you listed. I'm assuming you're comparing to the newer hd ss optics. If not then and you're talking older models, well the yes the leupy is hands down better. I compared my leupy to a vortex viper (not PST) and I wasn't all that impressed with the leupy glass over the viper really. I've also compared it to a PST and I was kind of upset at that pout really. I think the clarity was as good or better on the PST and we're not even comparing to NF yet!

    I think I'll end there really. I can say its a decent optic, but all in all I think I'd gone a different route if I had it to do over again. Really if I could sell it without losing my ass, I'd do it and get something else. On a side note, these are strictly my opinions and I'm no professional at comparing optics. The best quality glass I've looked through is S&B, but I've not compared to that. As stated above, its in the eye of the beholder really.
     

    Rovieairto

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    Re: Mark IV LR/T Illuminated. Are they worth 1K+?

    It's been in-vogue to bash Leupold for what seems like over a decade now.
    This site is full of cheerleaders promoting for their team.
    Nobody makes a perfect product, so no surprises there.
    They need to listen to their customers.
    Example:
    Only our military can rationalize mixing MOA with Mils because they only know how to teach mil-dot ranging.
    MOA dot ranging would require a very slightly different formula that isn't taught because our reticals are in miliradians
    Why they didn't match the retical to the turret for non-US military customers is beyond me.
    I'm sure there were folks saying it should be done, but nobody was listening.