Gunsmithing Matching action to a prefit barrel?

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I've built a couple of ARs and am looking to build my first bolt action. What appears to be different about BAs is how barrels marry up with the receiver/action. Is there any general guidance on which sizes are more common? I see prefit barrels described for a short list of actions, and it's different between manufacturers. For example, this Bartlien barrel has five actions listed. My hope is that by listing one of these, that really means that it's compatible with a longer list of actions. Is that true?

 
I've built a couple of ARs and am looking to build my first bolt action. What appears to be different about BAs is how barrels marry up with the receiver/action. Is there any general guidance on which sizes are more common? I see prefit barrels described for a short list of actions, and it's different between manufacturers. For example, this Bartlien barrel has five actions listed. My hope is that by listing one of these, that really means that it's compatible with a longer list of actions. Is that true?

No. Actions that accept prefits have very tight tolerances that allows a smith to chamber a barrel without having that action present. However, each companies action is different and they do not work in other actions because the head spacing was made for that one specific action. IE: TL3, Zeus etc.
 
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It depends on the definition of "prefit." Custom actions are made to such tight tolerances that a smith can just use the print to spin up a barrel already headspaced to spec that you can just screw on. It will be well within spec. The other kind of prefit is just a shorter chambered barrel with a longer thread. These you set headspace yourself with gauges and a barrel nut Ex. savage prefits. There is no shoulder on these barrels.

Savage or remage style prefits only require that you have the correct shank size and thread, but are otherwise universal. For example savage prefits will fit the Bighorn TL3 because the TL3 uses small shank threads for the tennon.

Barrels come and go, but you're stuck with the action. Pick the action first, then choose barrel. But when you're looking for an action you like, keep the ability for prefits in mind. The good news is that more and more companies are offering prefits for a lot more actions.
 
Pick the action you like most, then just about any good smith can spin you a barrel you like for that action.
You will of course still want headspace gauges to verify things are correct.


While gauges are certainly never a bad idea, folks also need to understand that they also vary. I have a variety of GO gauges for 308's that all measure differently.
 
While gauges are certainly never a bad idea, folks also need to understand that they also vary. I have a variety of GO gauges for 308's that all measure differently.

That’s interesting. I would hope that you get a go gauge from a reputable shop and it’s no smaller than the go spec and no larger than a no go... That gives you a few thou wiggle room but you’d hope a go would be within a thou of min all the time.

How much variance are we talking about? I’ve never ordered more than one go per caliber to compare. ?
 
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That’s interesting. I would hope that you get a go gauge from a reputable shop and it’s no smaller than the go spec and no larger than a no go... That gives you a few thou wiggle room but you’d hope a go would be within a thou of min all the time.

How much variance are we talking about? I’ve never ordered more than one go per caliber to compare. ?
I also would like to know. I have several pairs of Clymer gauges from Brownells.
 
barrel life. 2 months to one season
action life. idk TBD Jacob Bynum is on 308 barrel 27 on his AIAW

which is more important. a barrel that can be made by basically any of 10-20 different smiths at a drop of a hat or an action that's gonna have tons of barrels on it

this isn't the AR world
Good info. That's surprising, but helps me justify spending more on a good action.
 
I have Clymer gauges. Any reason to suspect that they aren't accurate?


It's not about "accurate" so much. Anything, ANYTHING made on this planet is subject to a tolerance. It's a word that gets thrown around a lot on forums. The thing to remember is that the person designing the part defines exactly what that is.

Example:

If I'm building pallets for shipping boxes of potato chips I may define the tolerance for the board length at "plus or minus" one quarter inch.

(+/- .250")

Another company might say that's silly and open it up to +/- .500". The thing to take into consideration (a topic often overlooked by engineers as they want something they designed perceived as good and they often invest very little consideration to cost) is that adding zeros right of the decimal in a tolerance block always adds zero(s) left of the decimal on the invoice. It's a whole lot less work to maintain +/- .001" than it is .0001".

This "thing" where people say, "my action, gunsmith, (whatever) holds tighter tolerances."

Tighter than what(?) is the first question that pops into my head. It's become a feel-good buzz word that is supposed to conjure up images of someone knowing what they are talking about. Anyone who does this for a living has faced this at least once and truthfully all it does is turn a great hobby into a reality TV show.

Back to the headspace gauge:

You have three basic types. Go, No/Go, and field. GO simply means its long enough for the standard OEM cartridge to fit with an acceptable clearance that mitigates excessive case web growth. No/Go means that same cartridge now fits as a hot dog in a hallway does. The chamber is excessive in length and will promote accelerated expiration dates on brass if it is reused/shot more than a few times.

Field is basically deep enough to take just about anything while ensuring the firing pin will still deliver enough "whack" to make the thing go bang. Nothing wrong with that when the ammunition is a fire and forget type scenario. In some cases where the function is of primary importance, this can be more desirable. -combat being the primary example.

SAAMI, the Sporting Arms/Ammunition Manufacturing Institute is not a law enforcement agency. They provide imperical data that we all base things on, but brand X can do whatever it wants without punity.

In the case of the 308 Winchester SAAMI defines the case head to shoulder gauge line distance at 1.634" as the maximum length. with a tolerance of "-.007".

So here you go: Brand X gauge is on the minimum side of things where's Y was made to the big end. Your gun gets setup with X and the gauge you bought is made by Y. See where this goes now??? All that happens now is the gunsmith's phone starts ringing and he's on trial to explain himself.

Nobody is wrong here. This headspace thing gets so blown out of proportion at times because its "regurgistated" information that some folks don't really understand. If "tighter tolerance" truly means better performance then I would ask why it is that I have fixed more than one rifle in my lifetime that shot poorly just by increasing the headspace on the chamber. -that is no shit.

Hope this helps.


Threading is another topic here. Class 1,2,3, whatever... So long as the manufacturer of the action is using a qualified gauge of good quality (hard chromed, ground pitch geometry being ideal as the gauge will be both durable and accurate) and the person threading the barrel blank uses ring gauge of the same size/pitch/class, then there is absolutely no reason to think the thing should not screw together.

Every nut and bolt used to hold anything together on this planet is made this way.

The issue becomes when people think they are improving something. I was a victim of this thought train for a long time. Threads had to be silky smooth or the gun was junk. That has been proven false to me an endless number of times. I know for an absolute fact that my stuff is gauged to size. 99.9% of action manufacturers do the same. The result here is I don't have barrels welding themselves to receivers and suppressors anymore.

Yet, poke around on the web and you'll find someone who is having a mental breakdown because their barrel doesn't feel like a micrometer thimble when they install it onto their action. As a smith, if you try to argue the point you suddenly find yourself as an outcast and you'll very likely have all kinds of free time to manage.

Perspective:

Man built a device that shot another person towards a different celestial body back in the 1960's. That vehicle had less computing power than a 1984 Ford Taurus. (part of my childhood was spent at the Cape, I've been on all the tours :) ) There's not a single feature on that rocket that didn't experience a dimensional change greater than any single part on a rifle. . .
 
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It's not about "accurate" so much. Anything, ANYTHING made on this planet is subject to a tolerance. It's a word that gets thrown around a lot on forums. The thing to remember is that the person designing the part defines exactly what that is.

Example:

If I'm building pallets for shipping boxes of potato chips I may define the tolerance for the board length at "plus or minus" one quarter inch.

(+/- .250")

Another company might say that's silly and open it up to +/- .500". The thing to take into consideration (a topic often overlooked by engineers as they want something they designed perceived as good and they often invest very little consideration to cost) is that adding zeros right of the decimal in a tolerance block always adds zero(s) left of the decimal on the invoice. It's a whole lot less work to maintain +/- .001" than it is .0001".

This "thing" where people say, "my action, gunsmith, (whatever) holds tighter tolerances."

Tighter than what(?) is the first question that pops into my head. It's become a feel-good buzz word that is supposed to conjure up images of someone knowing what they are talking about. Anyone who does this for a living has faced this at least once and truthfully all it does is turn a great hobby into a reality TV show.

Back to the headspace gauge:

You have three basic types. Go, No/Go, and field. GO simply means its long enough for the standard OEM cartridge to fit with an acceptable clearance that mitigates excessive case web growth. No/Go means that same cartridge now fits as a hot dog in a hallway does. The chamber is excessive in length and will promote accelerated expiration dates on brass if it is reused/shot more than a few times.

Field is basically deep enough to take just about anything while ensuring the firing pin will still deliver enough "whack" to make the thing go bang. Nothing wrong with that when the ammunition is a fire and forget type scenario. In some cases where the function is of primary importance, this can be more desirable. -combat being the primary example.

SAAMI, the Sporting Arms/Ammunition Manufacturing Institute is not a law enforcement agency. They provide imperical data that we all base things on, but brand X can do whatever it wants without punity.

In the case of the 308 Winchester SAAMI defines the case head to shoulder gauge line distance at 1.634" as the maximum length. with a tolerance of "-.007".

So here you go: Brand X gauge is on the minimum side of things where's Y was made to the big end. Your gun gets setup with X and the gauge you bought is made by Y. See where this goes now??? All that happens now is the gunsmith's phone starts ringing and he's on trial to explain himself.

Nobody is wrong here. This headspace thing gets so blown out of proportion at times because its "regurgistated" information that some folks don't really understand. If "tighter tolerance" truly means better performance then I would ask why it is that I have fixed more than one rifle in my lifetime that shot poorly just by increasing the headspace on the chamber. -that is no shit.

Hope this helps.


Threading is another topic here. Class 1,2,3, whatever... So long as the manufacturer of the action is using a qualified gauge of good quality (hard chromed, ground pitch geometry being ideal as the gauge will be both durable and accurate) and the person threading the barrel blank uses ring gauge of the same size/pitch/class, then there is absolutely no reason to think the thing should not screw together.

Every nut and bolt used to hold anything together on this planet is made this way.

The issue becomes when people think they are improving something. I was a victim of this thought train for a long time. Threads had to be silky smooth or the gun was junk. That has been proven false to me an endless number of times. I know for an absolute fact that my stuff is gauged to size. 99.9% of action manufacturers do the same. The result here is I don't have barrels welding themselves to receivers and suppressors anymore.

Yet, poke around on the web and you'll find someone who is having a mental breakdown because their barrel doesn't feel like a micrometer thimble when they install it onto their action. As a smith, if you try to argue the point you suddenly find yourself as an outcast and you'll very likely have all kinds of free time to manage.

Perspective:

Man built a device that shot another person towards a different celestial body back in the 1960's. That vehicle had less computing power than a 1984 Ford Taurus. (part of my childhood was spent at the Cape, I've been on all the tours :) ) There's not a single feature on that rocket that didn't experience a dimensional change greater than any single part on a rifle. . .
Sage like advice Mr Dixon. Puts tolerances in perspective.
 
Most (I'd guess upwards of 90%) of people on gun forums (this place included) have no earthly fucking clue about linear tolerances. Even more of them have no clue AT ALL about geometric tolerances.

Just the amount of ignorance and misunderstanding that I've read on here about how to measure runout is stunning. Most of the people discussing that subject on here would get laughed out of where I work.
 
Most (I'd guess upwards of 90%) of people on gun forums (this place included) have no earthly fucking clue about linear tolerances. Even more of them have no clue AT ALL about geometric tolerances.

Just the amount of ignorance and misunderstanding that I've read on here about how to measure runout is stunning. Most of the people discussing that subject on here would get laughed out of where I work.
I know nothing about either:)